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Old 10-14-2013   #201
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I think it's 'bordering on' ugly. Sorta like the newest Olympus. In fact, it looks decidedly UN-designed. Like the Engineers said, "here's what you have to work with," and they just cobbled together those disparate components. Oh, well. It's not so ugly that i wouldn't own one, but there isn't any 'cool factor' there, other than what it is, which is pretty fantastic.

I still don't like EVFs, but i'm hoping this one is leagues better than the ones i've seen in the past.
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Old 10-14-2013   #202
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yup, no cool factor. i'm sure we'll start hearing from the usual suspects about why it's really worth being excited about, for obvious reasons. it would take some doing to reignite my interest.

*bummed*
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Old 10-14-2013   #203
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Well, I am a bit excited about it. I don't think it looks soo bad. Nothing some black tape over the SONY logo can't fix. I don't care where the EVF is. Looking forward to when samples with M lenses start trickling in. I would guess that Leica will answer with a similar body without an RF fairly soon. Although I doubt they would match the 36mp. But that's only a guess.

Owning a Monochrom, I do need color sometimes and that gap has been filled with the Xpro. At least there is another FF option that is not the 240 now. I know it's not the same shooting experience....but the A7r would be fine in the studio.
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Old 10-14-2013   #204
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really?

and exactly what ignorance would that be ?

Stephen
The original comment was that there are SLR lenses that can match the IQ of the best Leica glass. I pointed out that this was false, and when offered the opportunity to defend the original point, the author of said point brought up more irrelevant nonsense with respect to build quality and price, neither of which are relevant with respect to absolute image quality (with the possible exception of the flare issue with the APO-Summicron 50 ASPH, which I believe Leica is repairing free of charge).

In short, the author couldn't defend his original (ignorant) point, so he began to obfuscate.
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Old 10-14-2013   #205
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The Leica M9 is a very elegant looking camera.
I am tired of chasing "the latest" developments.
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Old 10-14-2013   #206
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Some of you sound like you have already seen it in person, held it, and tried it for days, making judgment on it already. So what if the EVF is not on the side? I think that's uncomfortable for the majority of folks who are not RF users.

Here's a size comparison, as you can see, definitely not the size of a DSLR or even an SLR (NOT even a Pentax MX or LX).

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Old 10-14-2013   #207
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Sorry, but this is just false.

First off, hyperbole doesn't help your argument. What was the state of the art sensor in 1993? Do you really think the Leica M 240 is on par with that?!?

Second, show me an SLR 35mm that outperforms the 35 ASPH FLE. Forget about price; just show me one. Or a 50 that outperforms the APO-Summicron ASPH.
The Zeiss 55/1.4 would be, based on MTF alone, be as good as the APO Summicron for half the price, and the Sigma 35/1.4 is a pretty good performer, maybe not outperform, but is like 1/5 the price?

In my opinion, Leica places a huge priority on small size, and thus has to resort to designs that rely on very small tolerances, which inevitably lead to high prices.

But since, most Leica-diehards spend a goodly amount of time complaining about size, I suppose they have to be willing to fork out for the high prices.

Ultimately though, does one need such high MTF/resolution curves to make a good picture?
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Old 10-15-2013   #208
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I just can't get excited over it.
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Old 10-15-2013   #209
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I just can't get excited over it.
see a doctor.

leaked overview by digilloyd
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Old 10-15-2013   #210
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I'm excited by the A7 and A7r.

Especially for what it'll bring onto the market in the future.
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Old 10-15-2013   #211
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I've been using a NEX-7 for a bit over a year now, long enough to get used to a WYSIWYG EVF, focus peaking, a big buffer, and soft controls that operate in thirds of a stop. I have no remaining attachment to the rangefinder method. The A7 isn't cute or cool, but for me, it's what's inside that counts. If the A7 is as responsive as the NEX-7/6, I'll be all over it. At this point, there's nothing I need that the NEX-7 doesn't do, but I'm going to have a hard time passing up a tiny full-frame body that I can use with my existing lenses for that price.

Sony continues to be disruptive. They want the market badly. Competition is a great thing.
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Old 10-15-2013   #212
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I might actually get this instead of saving for an M9, let alone an M 240, which I'll never be able to afford. I might actually hold back buying anything new until sometime next year when the a7 prices are down a little.

I hope to get a chance to play with it during PPE, and if it doesn't turn out to be only half of what it promises to be, then my money is down on this one.
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Old 10-15-2013   #213
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Sony announcement is tonight US time or morning London. I am excited for this since I've sold my D700 and solely relied on Nex 5n and DP2M for my digital needs. I would love to use my M lenses without crop at even higher resolution than what I have been using to do pretty much everything from events to macros.
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Digiloyd accidentally posted his a7 info
Old 10-15-2013   #214
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Digiloyd accidentally posted his a7 info

It has been removed from his website, but google cache still has the info for now at least..

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...-Sony-A7R.html

The 55f1.8 is huge o n that camera body.. The 35f2.8 is about the right size.

Gary
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Old 10-15-2013   #215
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The 55f1.8 is huge o n that camera body.. The 35f2.8 is about the right size.
There is no picture of 55/1.8. The text says "Sony/Zeiss ZA FE 55mm f/1.8 Sonnar" but it's a 24-70 zoom in the picture.

edit: Ok, there are pictures of 55/1.8 on other sites and it does look huge, indeed.
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Old 10-15-2013   #216
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I've seen a lot of homely cameras but this new Sony looks downright ugly. It could poop golden gumdrops and I still wouldn't let it in the house.
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Old 10-15-2013   #217
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Who cares, if that thing works? Many classic pro cameras were ugly as hell, and originally regarded as such - whether thread mount Leicas, the Nikon F or Mamiya RB67, they all were an acquired taste, and if that ugliness had not become the new definition of camera, they'd never made it into design collections except as a warning example.
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Old 10-15-2013   #218
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I own lots of ugly cameras and have no problems using them. To each their own, I suppose. I'm just surprised that so many people are willing to disregard what was formerly a "dream camera" (mirrorless FF that can accept Leica lenses at a reasonable price) because of viewfinder placement or supposed "beauty". Personally, I'm going to have a hard time resisting plopping down the CC for a pre-order when the time comes...
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Old 10-15-2013   #219
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I really love my RX-1 and this is something I will jump on as soon as it is released. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. I really like the look of it. My only concern will be dust. Drove me mad with my M9. Sony will have a decent dust removal system I would suspect, Leica not so much.
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Old 10-15-2013   #220
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The Leica M9 is a very elegant looking camera.
I am tired of chasing "the latest" developments.
Hear, hear. I think I'm finally coming out of a long GAS phase.
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Old 10-15-2013   #221
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I've seen a lot of homely cameras but this new Sony looks downright ugly. It could poop golden gumdrops and I still wouldn't let it in the house.
Good for you. It's so ugly you can't use it no matter what it does. Thanks. Great contribution to discussion. Really makes us think.

What are your beautiful cameras by the way?
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Old 10-15-2013   #222
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The size advantage of the M series seems to be coming to an end. If this product does well, I don't think we will need a crystal ball to predict others will follow suit.

I think the real selling the point is the price of the body, however, the lenses seem quite expensive. That camera with the 35 mm f/2.8 sonnar I think is a life time combo. Given how FF perform in low light 2.8 is plenty fastest enough for any situation when one can shoo ISO 3200 with ease.
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Old 10-15-2013   #223
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Good for you. It's so ugly you can't use it no matter what it does. Thanks. Great contribution to discussion. Really makes us think.

What are your beautiful cameras by the way?
Thank you for applying your hostility to a person rather than to an inanimate object, it's that human touch that really matters ;-p

I suppose beauty in photographs doesn't matter either, as long as they have good specifications?

Actually, having worked as a designer myself, I've found that clients who overlook or devalue the quality of the design are usually the same ones who take shortcuts in other areas like user interface, quality control, and customer service. All of those are "secondary" factors compared to checking off an impressive list of features demanded by marketing... much as the beautiful and very successful Pontiac Aztek was able to list an amazing number of the most desirable features requested from consumer polls....

Somehow, given the number of Leica users on this board, I suspect that quality design does matter to a lot of people here and this latest Sony is falling flat, landing somewhat better than a Hasselblad Lunar but not quite as high as a Minolta Maxxum....

OK, please, go back to thinking....
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Old 10-15-2013   #224
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The size advantage of the M series seems to be coming to an end. If this product does well, I don't think we will need a crystal ball to predict others will follow suit.
yep.

Nikon and Canon will not sit idly on declining DSLR sales stats.

Likewise Fuji will be forced to increase sensor size to remain competitive.

Stephen
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Old 10-15-2013   #225
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Orange is my favourite colour so maybe that is why I like the look of the Sony If the new A7 feels anything like the RX-1 then it will please me more than the looks. I am very kinaesthetic and love the feel/heft of RX-1, as I did with my M9. Don't feel in any way though that the A7r is a Leica killer though? For me I would rather Sony because Leica is great at glass but not so good at electronics. Which I why I didn't get M-240, and I can afford it
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Old 10-15-2013   #226
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If my three most used Leica lenses do well on it, I may consider it.
.. 24f2.8, 35f2 and 50f2.

Right now I use these lenses mainly on my gxr, sometimes on the Fuji xp1. But I plan to wait awhile to c how Fuji is going to react. FF is really not my number one gotta have. I am more interested in overall image iq, overall usability w/ these legacy lenses and not having the Nex menu system.

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Old 10-15-2013   #227
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Orange is my favourite colour so maybe that is why I like the look of the Sony If the new A7 feels anything like the RX-1 then it will please me more than the looks. I am very kinaesthetic and love the feel/heft of RX-1, as I did with my M9. Don't feel in any way though that the A7r is a Leica killer though? For me I would rather Sony because Leica is great at glass but not so good at electronics. Which I why I didn't get M-240, and I can afford it
I have pretty much felt the same way.. Good at glass...ok w/ the electronics maybe the new m240 is better, only time will tell.

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Old 10-15-2013   #228
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Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
I've seen a lot of homely cameras but this new Sony looks downright ugly. It could poop golden gumdrops and I still wouldn't let it in the house.


LOL .... Frank's back with some good 'plain speak!'
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Old 10-15-2013   #229
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so the news is out and it's here.

my two cents:

it's not to appealing to look at aesthetics wise.

i didn't like sony's sensor on my nex-7, but maybe this one might be better (hopefully)


conclusion: Leica digital still has the advantage. even if they are made overpriced and for wealthy folks.
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Old 10-15-2013   #230
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Thank you for applying your hostility to a person rather than to an inanimate object, it's that human touch that really matters ;-p I suppose beauty in photographs doesn't matter either, as long as they have good specifications? Actually, having worked as a designer myself, I've found that clients who overlook or devalue the quality of the design are usually the same ones who take shortcuts in other areas like user interface, quality control, and customer service. All of those are "secondary" factors compared to checking off an impressive list of features demanded by marketing... much as the beautiful and very successful Pontiac Aztek was able to list an amazing number of the most desirable features requested from consumer polls.... Somehow, given the number of Leica users on this board, I suspect that quality design does matter to a lot of people here and this latest Sony is falling flat, landing somewhat better than a Hasselblad Lunar but not quite as high as a Minolta Maxxum.... OK, please, go back to thinking....
You didn't answer his question. I would like to know which camera you feel is beautiful. A designers take would be appreciated.
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Old 10-15-2013   #231
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If my three most used Leica lenses do well on it, I may consider it.
.. 24f2.8, 35f2 and 50f2.

Right now I use these lenses mainly on my gxr, sometimes on the Fuji xp1. But I plan to wait awhile to c how Fuji is going to react. FF is really not my number one gotta have. I am more interested in overall image iq, overall usability w/ these legacy lenses and not having the Nex menu system.

Gary
Oppps.. When I was shooting 35mm the 40f2 was the number one lens. Need to dust that lens off if I pick up a ff.

Gary
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Old 10-15-2013   #232
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You didn't answer his question. I would like to know which camera you feel is beautiful. A designers take would be appreciated.
OK, I like the Nickel Leica IIs, the M2, M4, new MPs. Also the original Ricoh GR, Contax N1, Widelux, Rolleiflex 2.8C, Hasselblad SWC/M, Linhof 617 v.1, Linhof Master Technika, the Fatif system, Philips original, Arca F Compact. For digitals I like the Seitz 617 Digital and the Apple Quicktake 100. For common stuff I liked the Nikon D200-D2x era for handling. Personally I use Nikon and Graflex, they are functional and lean and I like them pretty much - best values imho - but they are pretty beat up as well.

I thought the RX1 and some of the Sony DSLRs looked pretty good, the a850 and a99 were sharp.

But given the amount of different camera designs Sony is cranking out it looks like they are trying everything as quickly as possible and seeing what works. Even if this proves to be a decent shooter, based on their track record you'd want to wait until the second version was released....
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Old 10-15-2013   #233
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I can't wait to pick one up second hand after an early adopter absorbs the initial cost!
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Old 10-15-2013   #234
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There is a very good chance A7r will outshoot the M240 with wide angle Leica and Zeiss lenses. It is much smaller and much lighter. It costs 2300 instead of 7000.

Those are big issues. I find the styling neutral. Not ugly or beautiful.

Who chooses their camera with style as top priority? EVF placement paramount? Not even those who cry "dealbreaker" choose a camera like that----which is the funny part.

Frank, I took your bait. Sorry about that. Touche.

But you may have the harder bargain. After all, now, you can't have one.

Yes I have an M6 and a 3a----would love an M9 or 240. The A7r is likely a huge step for many of us who either can't afford a digital M or find one impractical for various reasons, but have rangefinder lenses we want to use FF.

Maybe it will suck in the end. But at the moment it looks fantastic-- functionally unique. I hope within a few years there will be a bunch like it----Leica styled so even you might let one on the porch. But the A7r is coming very shortly. More shortly than the 240 it seems.

Sony live feed tonite 11pm PST I think. Andrea, at SAR will have it up.

Frank, superb shots on your site. Congrats.


Photo by Tim Irving

seriously? looks like a cable modem to me. jus kiddin, u have great list of cameras.
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Old 10-15-2013   #235
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Seriously ... this sort of thing drives me mad!

Will I be perched on the edge of my seat with five seconds to go ... unlikely!


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Old 10-15-2013   #236
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touchscreen?
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Old 10-15-2013   #237
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i kind of like it. what does the wheel on top of the grip do?
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Old 10-15-2013   #238
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finally a universal digital back for all my legacy glass. homerun like-no-other! kudos to sony

should the price of 1690.- for A7 body be true I ll buy one with an M adapter, and I will be all set

I use M bayonet as 'base' for all lens adaption. as I also have the gxr-M
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Old 10-15-2013   #239
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Really nice! Finally!
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Old 10-15-2013   #240
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I'm in, when can I get one?
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