Film is coming back but where's the film?
Old 10-07-2012   #1
kshapero
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Film is coming back but where's the film?

I keep reading articles about the use of film is making a comeback.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/0...-indeed-it-is/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...come-back.html

Etc, etc. But in the meantime traditional film companies are closing shop or discontinuing film lines. So which is it?
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Old 10-07-2012   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
I keep reading articles about the use of film is making a comeback.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/0...-indeed-it-is/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...come-back.html

Etc, etc. But in the meantime traditional film companies are closing shop or discontinuing film lines. So which is it?
The most recent referenced article seemed to be saying that the measured resurgence in film use is due to young photographers' desire to use something 'cool'... something other than their cell phones. I predict that as digital camera design becomes 'cool'-er and cooler, film will eventually die off. My guess is that within my lifetime (another 25 years or so), film will only be produced by small boutique companies like the Impossible Project and other LOMO-esque efforts.

By the way, I believe the irony behind this death of film is going to be digital camera designs that come closer and closer to cameras that feel and act like film cameras.
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Old 10-07-2012   #3
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I just wish I could buy film at a reasonable price here in Portugal. In the meantime, I'm burning whatever I have left.
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Old 10-07-2012   #4
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Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
Etc, etc. But in the meantime traditional film companies are closing shop or discontinuing film lines. So which is it?
The big ones have their production lines all set up for massive volume. Massive volumes of color negative film also. They have to make changes to keep smaller volumes of a different b&w/color mix viable. It's an entirely different market now, not everyone is ready for it.
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Old 10-07-2012   #5
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Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
I keep reading articles about the use of film is making a comeback.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/0...-indeed-it-is/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...come-back.html

Etc, etc. But in the meantime traditional film companies are closing shop or discontinuing film lines. So which is it?
I think the 'film comeback' is a bit overexaggerated. I suspect most of it is consolidation, not rising demand. The owner of the pro lab I use (which is the best in town with many well known clients) says that in the last year did much more processing than they used to in the years before. But the reason for that is probably that many of the other labs have closed or have stopped offering film processing so basically he's been picking up the slack for them. Also, since very few commercial jobs are shot on film nobody orders contact sheets anymore so that is a huge financial loss for a lab.
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Old 10-07-2012   #6
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Hi, as a long term technology film will never disappear but for sure will be very lmited in its development as restricted in the places you will be able to purchase it.
Its obvious that digital media will reach films DR, check the simga dp2 merrill and the monochrom results....

For instance ilford has "good health" and i think the film divisions of large brands will be purchased by samller companies that can get proit in a nowadays niche product.

I think there will be no more sildes but on B/W we will have more offer.

Bye...and hope film will keep up!
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Old 10-07-2012   #7
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Yes, "jamie" your on the right track...the "elite" art geeks in places like NY, London, Paris, Berlin and sadly Italy. Now appear to have found a new marketing angle for collectors with to much money! They are grabbing you unknown photographers and throwing them up to the public...as new age artists because the use real film. I even read a article in a european news paper where they described it like this..." yes, he is using the lost art of having real light touch the image surface, and then letting going into a real dark room to create a transparent film image to print with real silver paper".

The remainder of the story talking about how the prints are so collectable because he can only make 1 or 2 a week. Talk about serious BS.

Yes this "jive" is just the newest version of the "emperors clothes"....Don't even get me started on the lack of technical or artistic ability.

It is sad but the Art Gallery clowns are only looking for some new suckers and again they are finding them.
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Old 10-07-2012   #8
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The only place in my town doing one hour development (Hema) thought the maintenance of their machine already too expensive to be profitable and dropped the whole business. Film, it's death row. Nobody wants to wait for another week to see their images. It'll be an Impossible Project-styled niche soon for colour.
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Old 10-07-2012   #9
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Originally Posted by larmarv916 View Post
It is sad but the Art Gallery clowns are only looking for some new suckers and again they are finding them.
Art gallery clowns take art and sell it. Religious clowns take jesus and sell it. Carnival clowns take balloons, turn them into dogs and sell it. Killer clowns from Outer Space killed people and sold movie theater tickets.
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Old 10-07-2012   #10
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Old 10-07-2012   #11
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Black and white film will likely be with us for some time (at least from niche manufacturers). I hope it isn't so - but color film may not be with us much longer.
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Old 10-07-2012   #12
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Originally Posted by larmarv916 View Post
Yes, "jamie" your on the right track...the "elite" art geeks in places like NY, London, Paris, Berlin and sadly Italy. Now appear to have found a new marketing angle for collectors with to much money! They are grabbing you unknown photographers and throwing them up to the public...as new age artists because the use real film. I even read a article in a european news paper where they described it like this..." yes, he is using the lost art of having real light touch the image surface, and then letting going into a real dark room to create a transparent film image to print with real silver paper".

The remainder of the story talking about how the prints are so collectable because he can only make 1 or 2 a week. Talk about serious BS.

Yes this "jive" is just the newest version of the "emperors clothes"....Don't even get me started on the lack of technical or artistic ability.

It is sad but the Art Gallery clowns are only looking for some new suckers and again they are finding them.

Not quite true. Film-based photography leading to silver gelatin prints has long been and continues to be the collectible side of photography - and where most money is spent by collectors. It's nothing new: just the continuing realisation by people with refined taste that film-based photography is the real McCoy.

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Old 10-07-2012   #13
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolzakukumba View Post
Not quite true. Film-based photography leading to silver gelatin prints has long been and continues to be the collectible side of photography - and where most money is spent by collectors. It's nothing new: just the continuing realisation by people with refined taste that film-based photography is the real McCoy.

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I wish that were true...I am reading and factually putting forward articles published. The trending of this behavior is popping up in many major publications...most of which are "puff" interviews by art news writers and editors acting like this a shock. There will always be the draw to "dead guys" as gallery owners buy their work outright and price it to the moon....because the artist is dead. As there are some people have committed to only collecting a particular artist and we all understand that.

But the push towards the "phony" new film school has nothing do with honest artistic elevation...only new twist on the old game. It's like a common trend in advertising of using or distorting color images to look like "old" archive images from decades long ago. A couple of years ago, I had major advertising directors tell me that now the only true artistic photos were coming from the artists shooting with "cell phones"....when that scam died then again the elite artistic community moved on to the next scam.

The moral here is the more things change the more they stay the same.
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Old 10-07-2012   #14
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So which is it?
Yes, it is definitely one or the other. My suggestion is to pay close attention to who is making the various assertions... they are not both correct.
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Old 10-07-2012   #15
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Originally Posted by larmarv916 View Post
Yes, "jamie" your on the right track...the "elite" art geeks in places like NY, London, Paris, Berlin and sadly Italy. Now appear to have found a new marketing angle for collectors with to much money! They are grabbing you unknown photographers and throwing them up to the public...as new age artists because the use real film. I even read a article in a european news paper where they described it like this..." yes, he is using the lost art of having real light touch the image surface, and then letting going into a real dark room to create a transparent film image to print with real silver paper".

The remainder of the story talking about how the prints are so collectable because he can only make 1 or 2 a week. Talk about serious BS.

Yes this "jive" is just the newest version of the "emperors clothes"....Don't even get me started on the lack of technical or artistic ability.

It is sad but the Art Gallery clowns are only looking for some new suckers and again
they are finding them.
Wow. I am always amazed at the vitriol directed at the 'art gallery' crowd. Find an example of over working of a simple process on a gallery site and suddenly everyone involved is a clown or grifter. The whole thing sounds scarily familiar.
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Old 10-07-2012   #16
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Originally Posted by larmarv916 View Post
Yes, "jamie" your on the right track...the "elite" art geeks in places like NY, London, Paris, Berlin and sadly Italy. Now appear to have found a new marketing angle for collectors with to much money! They are grabbing you unknown photographers and throwing them up to the public...as new age artists because the use real film. I even read a article in a european news paper where they described it like this..." yes, he is using the lost art of having real light touch the image surface, and then letting going into a real dark room to create a transparent film image to print with real silver paper".

The remainder of the story talking about how the prints are so collectable because he can only make 1 or 2 a week. Talk about serious BS.

Yes this "jive" is just the newest version of the "emperors clothes"....Don't even get me started on the lack of technical or artistic ability.

It is sad but the Art Gallery clowns are only looking for some new suckers and again they are finding them.
What in the world are you going on about??
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Old 10-07-2012   #17
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The only place in my town doing one hour development (Hema) thought the maintenance of their machine already too expensive to be profitable and dropped the whole business. Film, it's death row. Nobody wants to wait for another week to see their images. It'll be an Impossible Project-styled niche soon for colour.
Long live Black and White
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Old 10-07-2012   #18
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I think film, especially black & white, has enough followers to remain in existence for some time. They stopped making air cooled Beetles in 2003, but I can still buy almost any part new for almost any year produced.

What we won't have is the variety we enjoyed when film was shot by everyone, not just hobbyists and pros. Remember too, almost no one, save for pros and hobbyists, heard of companies and/or films such as Arista, Ilford, Foma and Efke. Yet, they were in business for decades without the support of the general consumer.
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Old 10-07-2012   #19
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What in the world are you going on about??
^-- haha, too good!

This thing with "it will be dead soon".. What does soon mean for you guys? I find that a bit curious, because I can see film more or less becoming very limited in choice, but I wouldn't expect it to completely disappear for another 10 years or so, if "ever". And "soon" for me is kind of 1 month or so in this case.
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Old 10-07-2012   #20
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I just wish I could buy film at a reasonable price here in Portugal. In the meantime, I'm burning whatever I have left.
http://nameloja.com.pt/

One with the less expensive prices!
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Old 10-07-2012   #21
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http://nameloja.com.pt/

One with the less expensive prices!
Or Macodirect.de, the shipping should still be less than the price-difference. There are also relatively cheap online sellers in Spain I think, by that I don't mean evilbay but shops with an online product selection.

If postage is an acceptable means of delivery then it should work out alright. For example, I live in the Netherlands but order RA4 and a few other bits and pieces from the UK (ag-photographic.co.uk) and the packages of paper and chemicals are not a logistical problem, even with the English Channel in the way.
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Old 10-07-2012   #22
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Art gallery clowns take art and sell it. Religious clowns take jesus and sell it. Carnival clowns take balloons, turn them into dogs and sell it. Killer clowns from Outer Space killed people and sold movie theater tickets.
Killer Clowns From Outer Space was an awesome movie. I always recommend it to people who tell me that they're afraid of clowns!
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Old 10-07-2012   #23
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Old 10-07-2012   #24
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No doubt people said painting would soon be dead in 1826...
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But at what cost?
Old 10-07-2012   #25
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But at what cost?

Over on the other side of the globe, Fuji film has gone up 10-20% while Kodak is in the 30%+ range (just nuts). I just lost Acros at my favorite store (someone was said to have bought up the remaining stock they had), and its nowhere to be found elsewhere

So what is a film user to do? I am now shooting Agfa film (made in Japan) like Precisa 100 and Vista 400 along with Efinity UXI 200 for color. If I get a chance to buy film at the far and hard to get to Costco, I can only buy Fuji Xtra 400 which is cheap compared to all others (less than $2.00USD per roll).

I like the fact I had variety back in the day, but now I guess I'm going to have to get used to mixed results or off colors with the left over companies that make film (that's like buying Holga color film for $7-10USD per roll and liking the off colors).
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Old 10-12-2012   #26
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I'm on my last remaining rolls of film ...

Fortunately, there is at least one photography shop in Vancouver that still stocks and sells just about every film and paper in production today, along with many out of production that have yet to expire.
Beau Photo: http://www.beauphoto.com/frames/filmfrm.html ... Look under "Pricelists ---> Film, Chemistry & Darkroom Papers (PDF)".

Who said film was dead?

Now if only the cost of developing film wasn't so high ...
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Old 10-12-2012   #27
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Film is making a comeback as a niche for artists and pros who use it for personal projects not to mention fine art, some real world feedback:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum390/...h-version.html

So where do you find it, same places you are best to be looking for the past TEN YEARS BRO!!! Freestyle, Adorama, B&H, etc. Plenty of film in stock, plenty of us using it too instead of posting this same old tired crap all over the internet on multiple sites ( LUF ) just to be the center of attention.
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Old 10-12-2012   #28
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What in the world are you going on about??
I was wondering that, myself. Sounds like someone's been sniffing the fixer.

Show me one business that hasn't undergone some change in the past decade (heck, five years even).

Ilford for one is in it for the long haul. Not for nothing is Kodak's film line its few (or only) profitable division, still.

The world changes. Smart business sees it, prepares for it and rolls with it. No big change there.
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Old 10-12-2012   #29
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freestyle still has film. i ordered some today ...
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Old 10-12-2012   #30
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freestyle still has film. i ordered some today ...
I buy most of my film from Freestyle, they carry everything, even obscure things like Foma film that local stores never carry in the USA. I just got a box from them today with 12 rolls of 120 film. I also bought 4 rolls of another film at the local camera store yesterday.
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Old 10-12-2012   #31
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Never mind film but what about flashbulbs ?
They haven't been made in decades but I'm still able to get them at reasonable prices.
And I mean by the case. Please don't mention that company in Ireland.
They are expensive and meant for special applications.
What I'm trying to say is that film will be available for decades to come.
Probably well after we're all dead.
Although limited in variety we will just adapt to availability and press on.

Ya know, on the other hand... digital isn't looking so bad.
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Old 10-12-2012   #32
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Old 10-12-2012   #33
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Never ever have problems getting film. Buying online is in all circumstances the cheapest and most convenient way. I have most of the stuff i want in 24 hours. But am never far away from any roll of kodak or Ilford film i want if i am short of itl (I live in the Netherlands close to the German border).

I do not know about the film revival but are amazed by the huge amount of YOUNG people i run into regularly who switched from digital to film.
And i am not refering to lomo type of photographers.
There is also a vast and rising interest in old printing processes, wet plate photography etc. if i look around me.....yes i see a revival and growing interest in filmphotography.
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Old 10-13-2012   #34
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Over here in Bangkok I pay about 1.50-1.75 USD for Kodak Pro Image 100.....it's basically the only film I shoot besides Tri-X....when I was in San Francisco last month, I saw the same film for 5.00 USD and it was advertised as something to the effect of "cheap, pro quality film" ......it costs me about 3.00 USD to develop and scan the film.......I feel like I have it pretty good over here as far as what prices I have seen elsewhere in the world......

that said, with all the talk about Kodak and stuff, I'm going to buy A LOT of film this week just because it's readily available, I have space in my refrigerator and I plan on shooting A LOT more over the next couple of months .....

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Old 10-13-2012   #35
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Ilford has just bought their own cassette-making machine. This tells me that (a) cassette demand worldwide is presumably still falling quite fast, or they'd not worry about supplies, and (b) Ilford is in it for the long run.

Cheers,

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Old 10-13-2012   #36
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Ilford has just bought their own cassette-making machine. This tells me that (a) cassette demand worldwide is presumably still falling quite fast, or they'd not worry about supplies, and (b) Ilford is in it for the long run.

Cheers,

R.
Hmm, I would like to take this as good news, at least in the sense that Ilford are committed to film production for the long term future, what ever happens to Kodak or Fujifilm......
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Old 10-13-2012   #37
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I found this an interesting and promising read about film at Photokina:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum390/...h-version.html
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Old 10-13-2012   #38
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thank you, thegman ...
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Old 10-13-2012   #39
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Film will be around as a medium for artists for as long as there is demand. But the everyday photography, mass market has gone digital. So the market is much smaller, more specialised, it will cost more because it will serve a niche market with limited economies of scale.
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Old 10-13-2012   #40
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I found this an interesting and promising read about film at Photokina:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum390/...h-version.html
Great and encouraging read!!
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