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In defence of the DSLR.
Old 08-07-2012   #1
Keith
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In defence of the DSLR.

With the current avalanche of new cameras and the trend towards mirrorless marvels like the Xpro with its undoubted image quality you could almost be excused for thinking the end for the DSLR may be near. This has been my own thinking recently and as soon as someone produces a full frame version of one of these high end compacts we may see a real shift away from the big chunk of alloy, plastic and glass that is the current DSLR. Yes they are big, heavy and a little unwieldy … attach a decent zoom and they become even more so and carrying one around for a day can really test your endurance and resolve.

However … I have just spent a couple of days photographing a two day vintage motocross meeting for a friend with my D700 and 24-120 Nikkor and I’ve come away with a very different point of view. I cannot imagine what other camera could have done what that Nikon did over those two days and do it so incredibly easily and competently. The auto focus barely missed a shot when tracking objects moving at some speed, the metering was amazingly accurate and the thing never missed a beat. By the end of day one the camera and lens were caked in dust and as I tossed it into the Low Pro I could see it was more than ready for another day’s abuse … though I was personally flagging! Close to four hundred exposures over two days using auto focus and doing a fair amount of chimping used considerably less than a full battery charge!

Two weeks prior to this I was photographing in a dark gallery full of monitors and projection screens at ISO 3200 with a 35mm Zeiss prime, focusing manually in the gloom with the excellent finder and relying on the matrix metering once again … and of course the camera provided me with near perfectly exposed almost noise free images as it invariably does! A month or so before this I was out in a busy main road at night with a tripod in the rain, photographing a billboard and watching the water running off the camera down the tripod legs and marvelling at the camera’s durability in such conditions.

So how do you replace a photographic tool that can do all this? Seriously I’d like to know because I don’t think you can ... suddenly my little OM-D seems like such a useless toy!

Well I’m off … I promised the woman next door I’d help her drive in some tent pegs … and she seems to have lost her hammer!
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Old 08-07-2012   #2
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Well ... you have to use the right tool for the job. However, I think that a huge majority of all DSLR were sold to photographer without the purpose of getting the job done ...
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Old 08-07-2012   #3
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Keith have to totally agree. I find it nary impossible to follow moving critters such as birds with the EVF cameras I've tried - with a DSLR - little or no problem - plus of course quicker/more responsive autofocus.
That said I think Gabor has a point
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Old 08-07-2012   #4
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Gabor's point is obviously correct ... an awful lot of high end DSLRs are/have been sold to people who really didn't need them and I guess that's what allows Canikon to keep making them for the people that do.

So what happens then when the wannabees stop their misguided consumer craziness and move onto mirrorless and suddenly Canikon aren't selling them in the same volume they were ... does the DSLR suddenly become more expensive when it's produced in smaller numbers?
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Old 08-07-2012   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
So how do you replace a photographic tool that can do all this? Seriously I’d like to know because I don’t think you can ... suddenly my little OM-D seems like such a useless toy!
I don't think it is about "replace" or even "complement" other systems but rather having the right tool for the right job. Your OM-D might seem like a useless toy for that context. For my style and interests, I need a DSLR like an archer needs a gatling gun. I realized for me a DSLR was overkill. It is nice to know I have it if I need it, though.
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Old 08-07-2012   #6
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I can only echo what Keith said in his original post. DSLRs are incredibly versatile and tools you can depend on to get a job done, and done effortlessly.

I use my DSLR for astrophotography, and there it really shines. It never ceases to amaze me that I can point my DSLR to a star and have it nail focus. None of the contrast AF based cameras does that.
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Old 08-07-2012   #7
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I realise that a DSLR is a pain in the arse compared to an Xpro/X100/OM-D etc when it comes to weight and managability ... but it does everything these cameras are capable of photographically and more.

My point is that it's the only option if you want one photograpic tool that does everything. I think on that basis it's future is pretty well guaranteed for some time to come.
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Old 08-07-2012   #8
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Talking

if you think if you believe in the perfect camera..

look here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV_Codes
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Old 08-07-2012   #9
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Quote:
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if you think if you believe in the perfect camera..

look here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV_Codes

That was very cheeky!
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Old 08-07-2012   #10
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yeah!

made you look
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Old 08-07-2012   #11
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if you think if you believe in the perfect camera..
[...]
Don't worry - Keith has a looooooooong track record on that

@Keith: I can't actually peel out any requirement in your description which requires a mirror to flop up and down. I enjoy DSLRs myself, but speaking of me that comes to a certain extend from biased socialisation and inability swap out folklore for reality ...

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Old 08-08-2012   #12
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If you need to transport thing, you use a station wagon.
If you need to get from A to B quickly, you use a motor bike.
...

Same for photography. Use the right tool for the right task.
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Old 08-08-2012   #13
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I'm in two minds, on one hand, my new D7000 is highly competent, and despite what many say about DSLRs, highly usable, everything important is within one button press and a twiddle of a dial. On the other hand, my brother's NEX 7 gives the same image quality and is about half the size. The EVF means you can focus anything, back focus, front focus, whatever, you can focus it.

I think we will see a continued push from mirrorless into DSLR territory, it may not be a positive thing, but I think it will happen. In many markets, the push from the low end into the high end is inevitable, look at how everyone is buying iPads instead of a vastly more capable small laptop.

There is no reason why DSLR capability cannot be in EVF powered cameras, and they already exist, like the Sony A65 and A77.
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Old 08-08-2012   #14
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There is no reason why DSLR capability cannot be in EVF powered cameras, and they already exist, like the Sony A65 and A77.
This. I believe despite the negative response Sony's SLT Alpha lineup suffered initially, Sony is actually onto something here ...
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Old 08-08-2012   #15
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This. I believe despite the negative response Sony's SLT Alpha lineup suffered initially, Sony is actually onto something here ...
Yes, I've played with the A65, the EVF is *a lot* better than any NEX, OM-D, or Panasonic one I've used. I think Sony have something pretty cool there.
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Old 08-08-2012   #16
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Yes, I've played with the A65, the EVF is *a lot* better than any NEX, OM-D, or Panasonic one I've used. I think Sony have something pretty cool there.

These are news to me ... I just checked dpreview. They seemed impressed apart from the noise at high ISO.

Why is the EVF so much better than the OM-D ... that's one thing about the OM-D that I was quite impressed with so the Sony must be good!
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Old 08-08-2012   #17
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feel free to send me your little useless toy
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Old 08-08-2012   #18
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feel free to send me your little useless toy

I said 'seems' ... purely a comparison and not necesarily a truth. I actually took the OM-D to the motocross meeting with me and was considering taking a few shots with it until I saw what the conditions were like ... it stayed in the safety of the car!
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Old 08-08-2012   #19
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I don't think there is any need to defend the DSLR, it does it's job very well. Mine mostly comes out for wildlife and especially birds. I recently went on a trip to photograph puffins and would not have wanted anything else but my 7D! Using long lenses on anything else is tricky and the AF speed for birds in flight are second to none. One chap whom I went with had an OM-D with him and had to pre focus etc and hope for the best. He did get a few great shots but said it was bloody hard work in comparison to a DSLR.

A different tool for each job!

Oh, and here is a puffin!


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Old 08-08-2012   #20
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Does it really need defending?

It's the best tool for quite a number of things, and (usually) the second-best tool for the remainder. The only question is whether to go on using it when it's second best. And, of course, the trade-offs you want to make (money, weight, bulk, complexity...)

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I Agree
Old 08-08-2012   #21
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I Agree

I regularly use my Nikon D700 to shoot my sons' indoor basketball games. It's an amazing camera! So good that I lugged it through Europe last month, even though I'd have liked to have carried something lighter. I just couldn't sacrifice image quality at high ISO.

Here's a shot of my son at ISO 3200.
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Old 08-08-2012   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Does it really need defending?

It's the best tool for quite a number of things, and (usually) the second-best tool for the remainder. The only question is whether to go on using it when it's second best. And, of course, the trade-offs you want to make (money, weight, bulk, complexity...)

Cheers,

R.

Part of my curiosity Roger is as to whether it will remain in it's current form or will the design morph into something different that can do the same job with the same degree of ruggedness and reliability? Sans prism and mirror box of course!
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Old 08-08-2012   #23
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But bare in mind, that your d700 is indeed a pro-camera. The consumer dslr's would have struggled just like you om-d.
You will have to spend a lot of mony on the body and the lenses to be capable of what you described.
So dslr's as a whole are not more capable as some mirrorless cameras, but the high end dslr's are.
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Old 08-08-2012   #24
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imho there is nothing wrong with a SLR; digital is the boring part.

That translates into, buy a F6!
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Old 08-08-2012   #25
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imho there is nothing wrong with a SLR; digital is the boring part.

That translates into, buy a F6!


That's a D700 that takes film!
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Old 08-08-2012   #26
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Keith,

I bought my D90 because I wasn't able to get the job done with RF's of any kind and film wasn't working either. There is a reason pros use pro gear when all the BS is said and done. Now of course I'm thinking about a full frame body.....ah the beat goes on.
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Old 08-08-2012   #27
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Keith,

I bought my D90 because I wasn't able to get the job done with RF's of any kind and film wasn't working either. There is a reason pros use pro gear when all the BS is said and done. Now of course I'm thinking about a full frame body.....ah the beat goes on.

Actually I noticed that Camera Pro here in Brisbane are now listing the D700 as discontinued. Have Nikon given it the chop in favour of the new D800 or is that just a local thing I wonder?
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Old 08-08-2012   #28
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I use a consumer grade (APS sensor) DSLR and it is versatile, small, and makes wonderful pictures for (at least) 8X10" prints.
Uses "legacy" Nikkors as well as the new lenses. Even has a built in intervalometer and motor drive ! What's not to love ?

Ruggedness? . . . well then you need pro-grade equipment, whatever kind of camera design that you go with.
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Old 08-08-2012   #29
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Quote:
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Actually I noticed that Camera Pro here in Brisbane are now listing the D700 as discontinued. Have Nikon given it the chop in favour of the new D800 or is that just a local thing I wonder?
i don't particularly follow Nikon news, but i'm pretty sure it's being discontinued everywhere. it was discontinued in Japan upon the arrival of the D800, so it's not surprising that it'd now be discontinued elsewhere as well. i think it's only Canon who is keeping the older full frame model in their lineup.

...as for the topic of the thread, i agree with what others have said about DSLRs not needing to be defended as different jobs are best suited to different cameras. besides, there are those of us who actually love the feel of a weighty, full-bodied camera in our hands out in the field... i'd much sooner complain about lugging my tripod around than having my 5D MK III with me. on the other hand, i obviously wouldn't and couldn't use that camera in every situation.
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Old 08-08-2012   #30
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I've been lucky enough to go to a few events at the London olympics and I've only brought my DSLR to all events. A M7 or M9 would just be annoying there methinks!
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Old 08-08-2012   #31
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I think the 700 is still being made? Hope so. It's my main camera and would only replace it with another or a D3/D3s.
As far as film bodies go, nothing beats the speed and durability of an F5. Not even an F6!
All my lenses focus faster on the F5 than anything else including the digital bodies.
My main gripe has always been the size of the viewfinder on Dslr's, even the new ones. Full frame bodies are better but still not quite there. I've added a DK17-M eyepiece magnifier to my Nikon bodies and the transformation is superb.
The D700/D3 finders are now as big as an F2 with the added bonus of being brighter.
I think there will always be a market for Dslr's especially the pro stuff simply because, as others have said, they do pretty much everything and in all weather situations.
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Old 08-08-2012   #32
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Actually I noticed that Camera Pro here in Brisbane are now listing the D700 as discontinued. Have Nikon given it the chop in favour of the new D800 or is that just a local thing I wonder?
Would have thought so, and that the D700 was discontinued as soon as the D800 landed, with stores & Nikon just selling existing D700 stocks until they ran out.

EDIT: If there was the option of a reduced raw size option (say 12 megapixels), would there be any benefit to a D700 over a D800? Curious more than anything else, as the D800 seemed to me to offer the same high iso performance, while improving in other areas like dynamic range as well as obviously resolution.
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Old 08-08-2012   #33
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After many years of resistance, I purchased a DSLR recently. I just wanted one camera with fast AF and a good OVF viewfinder. EVFs are like peep holes in comparison. Mirror slap doesn't bother me. If the X-Pro1's AF was like a high end DSLR, I wouldn't use anything else. Unfortunately, it is not.
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Old 08-08-2012   #34
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Would have thought so, and that the D700 was discontinued as soon as the D800 landed, with stores & Nikon just selling existing D700 stocks until they ran out.

It's had a good run and deservedly so ... if mine got destroyed or had some major catastrophy I think I'd be shopping for a D3s as a replacement.
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Old 08-08-2012   #35
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After many years of resistance, I purchased a DSLR recently. I just wanted one camera with fast AF and a good OVF viewfinder. EVFs are like peep holes in comparison. Mirror slap doesn't bother me. If the X-Pro1's AF was like a high end DSLR, I wouldn't use anything else. Unfortunately, it is not.

When they can get a camera like the Xpro to focus the way my D700 does I'll want one!

As for mirror slap .... that turned into mirror shuffle years ago IMO. No perceptable reaction through my D700 and I shoot it down to 1/8 hand held quite often.
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Old 08-08-2012   #36
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As they say, Keith--"horses for courses". My D700 will be with me until one of us croaks...I don't particularly enjoy shooting with it, but it gets results every time.
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Old 08-08-2012   #37
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It's had a good run and deservedly so ... if mine got destroyed or had some major catastrophy I think I'd be shopping for a D3s as a replacement.
Fantastic camera alright, and redefined high iso performance. A low light shooters wet dream, and would have loved to own one. Am happy with my D300, even though a lesser sensor in most regards, but would be prepared to drop a serious chunk of change when digital sensors reach the holy grail of film negative dynamic range. Nearly everything else is there sensor/ image quality-wise, and the only thing that counts against the modern dslr in my book, is the shooting experience.
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Old 08-08-2012   #38
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Although I would be happy shooting my M3 all day, economics require me to have a digital camera for certain jobs. I use a D7000 because the AF is very fast and accurate, the body is sturdy enough for me and an optical VF is a must for me (tried the Sony A65). That being said I was at the beach the other day with my Nikon F, my 105/2.5 and some rolls of XP2 shooting away and a guy was knocking of snapshots of his kids. He asked me why it took 10 seconds or so after he pressed the shutter button for his camera to fire. I told him he set his rig to the self timer mode (duh!) on his NIKON D800!!!!
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Old 08-08-2012   #39
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As they say, Keith--"horses for courses". My D700 will be with me until one of us croaks...I don't particularly enjoy shooting with it, but it gets results every time.

It's hard to define how I feel about my D700. In the gallery it feels somewhat cumbersome and intrusive but produces results that blow me away ... at the Moto-X track it was in it's element and really felt like the perfect tool!
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Old 08-08-2012   #40
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It's hard to define how I feel about my D700. In the gallery it feels somewhat cumbersome and intrusive but produces results that blow me away ... at the Moto-X track it was in it's element and really felt like the perfect tool!
Can understand that. For me a dslr feels intrusive in more intimate atmospheres, or rather the camera feels as if it becomes part of the moment, rather than just being an observer of the moment. Hard to explain more than that, I find, at least for me.
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