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View Poll Results: New ZM or Mint M7? Why?
ZM 446 45.60%
M7 532 54.40%
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Old 03-15-2012   #281
markrich
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I'm in the process of considering a new RF. I have narrowed between these two models but it seems the love for both is equally placed among the messages here.
Cost wise a second hand M7 or a new Zeiss is very similar but what I am more interested in is actual day to day use. What is the easiest to use? Which is larger in the hands? Which is the better street cam? All that kind of stuff.
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Old 05-25-2012   #282
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I have an Ikon and an MP and, as lovely as the MP is as an object, I really like the Ikon to use. Great viewfinder and the shutter release works without a softie (which I find necessary on the MP). I'm 6ft 2in and the Ikon feels slightly chunkier than the MP. Both have their respective accessory grips that I need to hold them properly stable.

There, I've said it.

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Old 05-25-2012   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klapka View Post
If I have started with the M2 from the very beginning I whould have save a lot of money and whouldn't have a vast collection of M bodies sitting on my shelf.
I'm sure that you could find some people here who would help you to get rid of those painful reminders of your mistakes. Me included :P
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Old 05-26-2012   #284
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I have tried both and several years ago I bought (a second hand) M7 0,58. As already mentioned for the 28mm frame. No regrets so far. It is a very handy camera to use and very quick in focus and metering.
About the optics: The differences between Zeiss and Leica are very small. Even the C.V. optics are very good and I am using their SWH 4,5/15mm-M too. So my set is complete with a Leica Summicron 2,0/50mm, Elmarit 2,8/28mm and a Summarit 2,5/75mm.
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Old 05-26-2012   #285
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Deciding between a Zeiss Ikon and a Leica M7 is like deciding between two quite different but equally beautiful women.

A wonderful dilemma to have...
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Old 05-26-2012   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_novatron View Post
Deciding between a Zeiss Ikon and a Leica M7 is like deciding between two quite different but equally beautiful women.

A wonderful dilemma to have...
Probably not with the prices of today:

http://www.fotoversand-afa.de/digita...schwarzset.php

ZI body + C-Sonnar 50/1.5 = 1.499 minus 19% VAT = 1.260 = $1.600.. The lens alone costs by B&H $1.201 so the body comes for $399.. not a bad deal at all..
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Old 05-26-2012   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdemas View Post
For me the real difference, and the reason I don't have a ZI right now, is the shutter sound. I find it to be loud and of a very obvious pitch, something I don't care for when sound matters in an environment. ........................
Everyone has their own parameters and I respect that. I have been photographing in one of several small churches almost every Sunday for the last 6-7 months with my ZI. I have even photographed a few funerals. I don't find the sound obtrusive. Yes, you can hear the shutter but the sound is dwarfed by the impact of a photographer standing there in the front of the church.
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Old 05-28-2012   #288
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Have I posted in this thread yet? Not sure. Too much thinking about cameras. Grrr.

I have both the M7 and the Ikon. The Ikon was my first rangefinder, purchased in 2008, and the M7 followed in 2010 about six months after I bought my M9. Much has been said about the differences between them, so I will only add my personal feelings.

I like the Ikon as a shooter. The metering is very accurate, the ergonomics are nice, and the body is very light compared with the M7. Being able to load the film with a hinged back is a real plus, not to mention being able to see what film you've loaded in the little window at the back. The viewfinder is a revelation and it tucks the shutter speeds off to the side, rather than down the bottom where they can be distracting.

But the Ikon doesn't have the same solidity as the M7. Squeeze the Ikon's top plate and there is a bit of give, something you'll never feel in the Leica. The shutter sound of the Ikon is a sharp and metallic 'spang' which is a bit annoying compared with the muted 'klop' of the Leica. But this solidity is also a bit of the M7's pitfall, as it is much more noticeable around the neck or over the shoulder. Carry it for a whole day and you know about it. Carry the Ikon and you'll only just notice it. You often hear about people raving how the M whatever is so light, you can carry it anywhere. I feel like I could brain a mugger with the M7 and still take photos afterwards, whereas the Ikon feels like it would come apart if it met someone's head.

Shooting the M7 is a gorgeously tactile experience, full of rounded curves and smooth action. The Ikon is a bit 'gritty', a very workmanlike feeling. The Ikon in operation grunts, "I vill take your fotos," whereas the M7 murmurs, "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, ja?"
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Old 05-28-2012   #289
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Pretty sure I posted in this thread before and said that I'd have the Ikon. Well, I've changed my mind, I'd have the m7.
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Old 05-28-2012   #290
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Having used both, and despite wanting to like the ZI more, I found I just preferred the Leica. Felt nicer to me.

I didn't buy either. Went for an M4-2 instead.
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Old 05-28-2012   #291
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I just sold my M7 0.58 and kept the ZI.

The latter's VF is in a different class and the camera is cooler...
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Old 05-28-2012   #292
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If you really want that, "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, ja?" feeling, get an M3.
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Old 05-28-2012   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
If you really want that, "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, ja?" feeling, get an M3.
Listen carefully, that would be then: "Jaaaa, now we take ze fotos, but can you help an old lady with the exposure, ja?"

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Old 05-29-2012   #294
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With the price of Leica products today, the choice is pretty easy.
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Old 05-30-2012   #295
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If you shoot AE, like many others, the Zeiss is a superior camera. Film loading is much better. The VF is superior. It costs a lot less. The downside is well known: difficulties reading the meter in bright sunlight conditions.
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Old 05-31-2012   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
If you shoot AE, like many others, the Zeiss is a superior camera. Film loading is much better. The VF is superior. It costs a lot less. The downside is well known: difficulties reading the meter in bright sunlight conditions.
Loading a Leica is much easier once you learn how to do it. You need to press down on the cassette to make sure that it's seated. Most people just don't know how to load a Leica, and their in box instructions are terrible.

Seriously considering a ZM because I can get a new one at cost. It's that huge viewfinder that's the drawing card.
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Old 05-31-2012   #297
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Love my M7, but I wish it had the top 2000th shutter speed of the ZI.

Still, they're both good cameras. It's a pleasure to own and use either of them.
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Old 05-31-2012   #298
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The two M7s I've owned are MUCH quieter than the ZIs I've played with and, in fact, quieter than all my other Ms.
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Old 05-31-2012   #299
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PS- I just bought back an M7 .85 that I sold about 4 months ago. Happiness returns.
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Old 07-23-2012   #300
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The ZM is no longer advertised..The Leica M7 may indeed become obsolete with film, but as a 'Red dot" will always have value! Remember the Contax G1 and G2. Yeah! Gonna wipe the floor clean of Leica with those" Sure! Almost worthless except a few users!
i use film cameras that are no longer relevant. It don't make them a good investment..
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Old 07-23-2012   #301
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I'd say that the the only three things that the M7 has over the ZI is:
  1. Red Dot
  2. Quieter Shutter
  3. Build Quality / Heft

But then, what the ZI has over the M7 is:
  1. Affordable
  2. Brighter and more accurate rangefinder
  3. Lighter

I own a ZI limited edition and recently passed on an M7 in favour of an M6 classic. The M7 is great, and if you have money and desire get it. However you should feel perfectly comfortable with the ZI as it's a great performer, who some even say is better (from a useability perspective) than the M7.
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Old 07-23-2012   #302
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I have had both and I would add to the above comments that the M7 has a better metering system and also feels just great in your hands, at least my hands.
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Old 01-17-2013   #303
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Ive only handled an Ikon for a brief amount of time, so i cant speak to the things like meter, accuracies, and metering. But from what I can remember about the Ikon, I prefer the extra weight of an M7 and the framelines (I need my 90mm and 135mm frames)
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Old 01-17-2013   #304
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In the mean time the Zeiss-Ikon is not available anymore. The production has been ceased.

So you can see that only the original survived: M7 and MP are still Leica's production M cameras.
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Old 01-17-2013   #305
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Well, the ZI is discontinued, but there is still new stock at B&H and other dealers if you want one. Look at all the people on this forum who use long discontinued cameras quite happily.

:-)

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Old 01-17-2013   #306
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Quote:
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Well, the ZI is discontinued, but there is still new stock at B&H and other dealers if you want one. Look at all the people on this forum who use long discontinued cameras quite happily.
The Zeiss Ikon was the only camera I have used in the last 14 years that was still being manufactured. Now it has joined the others but still works as it did when being currently built.

The only camera I bought new in that time frame was a $27 Holga. Too many great deal on like new used equipment.
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Old 01-17-2013   #307
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No doubt for me. I would take the new ZM in a minute over the M7. A great camera.
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Old 02-12-2013   #308
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my choice is ZI and I don't regret it! I don't understand the hysteria about Leica, besides it's lens that gives the picture and not the body
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Old 03-10-2013   #309
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Quote:
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my choice is ZI and I don't regret it! I don't understand the hysteria about Leica, besides it's lens that gives the picture and not the body
Ah, but I think the leica's are about the viewfinder, especially M3 and M2.
And general ergonomics. Shutter button on the right, speed on top, diaphragm on the front of the lens, focus at the back. That is what consumer photography has been about for quite a while. And Leica made it so...
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Old 03-10-2013   #310
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well... if you are going to go automation,
i would like to throw another suggestion,
the Hexar RF.

+ Auto Advance and Rewind
+ Lens compatibility, including more esoteric ones like
Goggled Summaron, Close-up with Snooky-M + Elmar 50/f2.8 collapsible.
+ Smaller than the average M
- Dials for AE Lock isn't stiff enough, imo, same goes for EV compensation.
- Early model had RF alignment issues which wasn't easy to fix

here's a pix with 35cron:



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Old 03-18-2013   #311
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I voted Zeiss, but I should have voted Leica. If no one wants the ZMs, there is a *small* chance the price *might* come down to a point where I can think about beginning to dream of saving for one #photographeronabudget
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Old 03-18-2013   #312
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I have been waiting for prices to drop as well so I can consider buying a backup, but they are very "sticky" and have not dropped at all so far. It is certainly a terrific camera which is quite obvious by how well it has done against the M7 in this poll.
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Old 03-18-2013   #313
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Quote:
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I have been waiting for prices to drop as well so I can consider buying a backup, but they are very "sticky" and have not dropped at all so far. It is certainly a terrific camera which is quite obvious by how well it has done against the M7 in this poll.

No doubt the ZM is a fabulous camera (one I'm considering swapping for the Leica), however, I think the poll is probably good as an indication of ownership, more than anything else. These type of polls usually boil down to "I chose it, therefore it's the best".
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Old 03-18-2013   #314
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I'm happy with my M7. It's growing on me with each roll.

Honestly, it's 100% desire to own Leica. Ever since beginning photography it is the crown jewels to me... and I have been patient and purchased smartly.

Just not interested in Voighlander, not Zeiss... Not unlike the collection of Michael Kors and Coach handbags my wife owns.



Minor annoyance is the DX and the ISO wheel. I have noticed occasional patch flare.

One day, I will probably sell the M7, add a few hundred to the pot, and buy a covey of mechanical bodies to marry each of my growing collection of glass.

Cannot comment on the ZI, but at the right price... why not.
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Old 03-18-2013   #315
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For me the thing with RF cameras is (after the glass) is the quality of the finders. This is why I shoot with M3's, mostly. I own neither an M7 nor a ZI- but I'm in the market, and have looked through both; the ZI finder is miles better, hands down. The build of the M7 is probably better, but the flaring finder is unforgivable. Even without that issue, the ZI's finder is bigger and brighter; no contest. (Anyone want to trade me a good ZI for one of my M3's?)
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Old 03-18-2013   #316
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I had an M7 and went back to the M6 because to me it's a very disappointing camera and a missed opportunity by Leica. I disliked the fact that in auto mode there is no easy way of dialing in exposure compensation as there is with Bessa (or, apparently, the ZI) so I ended up using it in manual mode most of the time. I also disliked the way that whenever you set the film speed off the rated ISO a little LED blinks in the v/f as if there's something wrong (on my copy the silly compensation dial at the back used to move a bit, so I got the blinking thing most of the time). I disliked the number of batteries it took. And finally, it didn't have the beautiful shutter sound of the other Ms, however I've never used a ZI and I'd very much like to.
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Old 03-18-2013   #317
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Prices for M7s seem to be plummeting lately. I've seen several in the last few months for less than $2k, which seems like a steal. For just a little more than both an M6 and a ZI, you can get quite a nice camera. I'm thinking about picking one up, having owned a Bessa R3A, a ZI, and an M6, in that order. Of the three, I liked the M6 the most, but missed having AE. When I bought all those cameras, M7s were still in the $2500 range. Now, it seems like a no brainer if you can get a good copy, especially with the DX reader and MP finder upgrades.
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Old 03-20-2013   #318
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I've two M3s and two ZIs and mostly use a modified M6TTL and for the life of me I'm not sure why. I shoot mostly with the Zeiss 35mm f/2.8c on the M6TTL, but I know that the Zi's viewfinder is better. I do love the M3 for fast 50s and 90mm. I shoot sports with an RTS III when I know that I get better shots and more in focus shots with my 1DMKIII. When others are relying on me it is the Canon. When I shoot for myself it is the Contax. Go figure..

When you have some passion for photography, both the equipment and the process, I'm not sure that logic has much to do with any of it. When you do it as a business, best use logic.

So many threads ask which piece of equipment is best, but how do you answer when it is all good?
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Old 03-24-2013   #319
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Quote:
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When you have some passion for photography, both the equipment and the process, I'm not sure that logic has much to do with any of it. When you do it as a business, best use logic.

So many threads ask which piece of equipment is best, but how do you answer when it is all good?
+1

A great statement. It is all good. Leica, Zeiss Ikon, Contax, Bessa, they all do a terrific job if the photographer can do his job. When it comes down to it the choice of your equipment will certainly be more related to your own personal likes and dislikes then anything else. And even sometimes things you did not even consider in the beginning.

I managed to burn some good sized holes in the shutter curtain of my M6 (my own fault) so I am now shooting exclusively with the ZI. Once the M6 gets back from Youxin I will probably continue to work with the ZI since it is easily as capable, and I am not as worried about the shutter curtains.
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Old 03-27-2013   #320
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There is a LNIB ZI on GetDPI for $1100. Seems like a great deal to me. Although, I opted for a silver M7 with motor, magnifier and 24mm silver Elmarit. Should be here next week.

very excited to be back with a leica film camera.

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