Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Konica RF / Zeiss Ikon ZM Leica Mount Rangefinders

Konica RF / Zeiss Ikon ZM Leica Mount Rangefinders Konica and Zeiss versions of the AE electronic film rangefinder camera

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

ZI "SILVER" discontinued
Old 03-08-2012   #1
jpskenn
Registered User
 
jpskenn's Avatar
 
jpskenn is offline
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kanazawa, JAPAN
Posts: 27
Unhappy ZI "SILVER" discontinued

Cosina announced that ZI "SILVER" discontinued on their web site.

http://www.cosina.co.jp/seihin/cz/ikon/index.html
note : Japanese site.

I have both BLACK and SILVER, but feeling sad.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #2
caasols
Registered User
 
caasols is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 45
I just sold mine last week... :O
The limited edition, number 0117 of 1200....

Now I'm regreting my decision........ :O
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #3
bensyverson
Registered User
 
bensyverson is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chicago
Posts: 629
Nooooooooooo...
__________________
me on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #4
redisburning
-
 
redisburning is offline
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,581
hope it's just the silver body.

it would be a tragedy to lose the ZM line.

I think most people like black better, so hopefully this is just a case of one product being disproportionately unpopular like the 85/2
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #5
Araakii
Registered User
 
Araakii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 507
It's my favorite body for street stuff. Unlike caasols, I am still keeping my limited edition ZI silver :-)
__________________
My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #6
zvos1
Registered User
 
zvos1's Avatar
 
zvos1 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Down Under
Posts: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by caasols View Post
I just sold mine last week... :O
The limited edition, number 0117 of 1200....

Now I'm regreting my decision........ :O
Are you sure its 0117, I just bought limited edition number 1107. Coincidence?
__________________
Of course it's all luck. - HCB

M4 and some digital stuff
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #7
j.scooter
Registered User
 
j.scooter's Avatar
 
j.scooter is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto-ish
Posts: 1,324
I don't get it.

Everyone keeps saying that Silver is a limited edition, then this thread comes up stating that Silver has been discontinued?
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #8
EdwardKaraa
Registered User
 
EdwardKaraa's Avatar
 
EdwardKaraa is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bangkok
Age: 50
Posts: 703
Black was the standard color. The first batch of 1200 silver bodies was limited edition and came with a leather pouch. Due to its popularity back then, Zeiss introduced a standard silver model, exactly the same, but without the limited edition engraving, and no leather pouch. I have a limited edition body. Discontinued means soaring prices on the fleabay. It may mean also that Zeiss is pulling out the cameras slowly. Watch the black one go in one or two years.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #9
EdwardKaraa
Registered User
 
EdwardKaraa's Avatar
 
EdwardKaraa is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bangkok
Age: 50
Posts: 703
Thanks for the clarification, jonmanjiro. For some reason I thought the black one came first.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #10
Araakii
Registered User
 
Araakii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 507
Does the regular silver ZI also come with the nice rectangular case?
__________________
My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #11
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 56
Posts: 3,113
My silver ZI, regular version purchased 5-6 years, is without doubt my favorite film camera, and still going strong.

I wouldn't hesitate to get this camera in black, if that were the only version available new.

Discontinued right at the moment when I am buying into my first full-fledged digital system camera. I'd say the writing is on the wall.
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #12
CVickery
Registered User
 
CVickery is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 162
If I understand what you are referring to, the rectangular case ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ation_Box.html ) apparently can be purchased separately. I have one that I received with my silver ZI (not limited edition). Nice box, but sits empty in a cabinet...I'd part with it for a few bucks.
__________________
_____________________________________
IIIc, M3, M6, M10, MM, Nikon S2, Contax IIa, Zeiss Ikon ZM
Other stuff
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2012   #13
kossi008
Photon Counter
 
kossi008's Avatar
 
kossi008 is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dresden, Germany
Age: 53
Posts: 927
And I have a silver limited edition and did not get any case or pouch. This does not make me feel bad.

But the discontinuation does. Wondering whether I should go for that backup body now, which has always been in the back of my mind...
__________________
Photon Counter
My flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #14
Photon42
burn the box
 
Photon42's Avatar
 
Photon42 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Neutral Zone
Posts: 625
Sad thing. Should buy another one. Or read the signs ...
__________________
My Gallery
My Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #15
thegman
Registered User
 
thegman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 40
Posts: 3,819
It would be a shame if Zeiss discontinued the Ikon, however, as it is Cosina who makes them, I wonder if they'd step up to make a "Premium Bessa", if the Ikon did go away.
__________________
My Blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #16
gavinlg
Registered User
 
gavinlg's Avatar
 
gavinlg is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wellington NZ
Posts: 5,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegman View Post
It would be a shame if Zeiss discontinued the Ikon, however, as it is Cosina who makes them, I wonder if they'd step up to make a "Premium Bessa", if the Ikon did go away.
Surely they wouldn't though - they have an entire line of M mount lenses, and their R&D costs for the ikon are long gone!
__________________
NO PRAISE
@gavinlagrange
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #17
Araakii
Registered User
 
Araakii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by CVickery View Post
If I understand what you are referring to, the rectangular case ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ation_Box.html ) apparently can be purchased separately. I have one that I received with my silver ZI (not limited edition). Nice box, but sits empty in a cabinet...I'd part with it for a few bucks.
A few bucks? I don't mind having another back up box for that price. ^_^
__________________
My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #18
Jeremy Johns
Registered User
 
Jeremy Johns's Avatar
 
Jeremy Johns is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: London
Age: 45
Posts: 45
I would be very surprised if they did discontinue the Ikon. They currently can't make ZM lenses quick enough so that must mean there's an overall demand for the system (even though most of the demand is lenses for leica camera).

At least that is my hope as the ikon will be my next RF camera.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #19
jarski
Registered User
 
jarski's Avatar
 
jarski is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,569
perhaps something new is in pipeline ?
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #20
thegman
Registered User
 
thegman is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 40
Posts: 3,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinlg View Post
Surely they wouldn't though - they have an entire line of M mount lenses, and their R&D costs for the ikon are long gone!
To be honest, I have no opinion on whether they will or they won't. I guess while it's selling, there is no reason to, but big companies frequently are more about "strategy" than much else.
__________________
My Blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #21
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 56
Posts: 3,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegman View Post
I guess while it's selling
Is it selling? How much?

In the absence of figures it is hard to know.

I would guess that since the devaluation of the dollar vs the yen has pushed the price of the ZI much closer to M6 and M7 territory, the North American market for new ZIs has shrunk considerably, if not dried up.

For me, it was the body of preference. Wish I really could afford a second, but in practice I'm happier combining it with a Bessa R4A and a Bessa T.
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #22
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarski View Post
perhaps something new is in pipeline ?


At last ... that full frame M mount digital body for $2500 that we've all been waiting on for so long!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #23
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 56
Posts: 3,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
At last ... that full frame M mount digital body for $2500 that we've all been waiting on for so long!
The DZI, pronounced "dizzy".
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #24
nerip
Registered User
 
nerip's Avatar
 
nerip is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 6
I'm sad too…
i've just bought a Black Version and i'm feeling very happy with it.
__________________
Zeiss, Contax and Olympus user
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #25
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,759
Zeiss can do it. Let's hope for a FF digital Zeiss camera that is somehow better than the M9. A future with $1000 M8 bodies, $2000 M9, $3000 Zeiss and $4000 Fuji?
Keith, we can always dream.
__________________
- Raid

________________


http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #26
EdwardKaraa
Registered User
 
EdwardKaraa's Avatar
 
EdwardKaraa is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bangkok
Age: 50
Posts: 703
I'm sure the discontinuation is due to low sales. Zeiss just want to consolidate the ZI into one model/color only to reduce costs. But yeah, I would love to see a Zeiss Ikon D.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #27
jarski
Registered User
 
jarski's Avatar
 
jarski is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
At last ... that full frame M mount digital body for $2500 that we've all been waiting on for so long!
yes they "promised" this, saying digital wasn't mature enough, back in ~2006-07. am sure factory assembly line somewhere in Japan is currently reconfigured for mass production of ZI-D
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #28
mynikonf2
OEM
 
mynikonf2's Avatar
 
mynikonf2 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: ...resident of the Virgo Galactic Supercluster +/-
Age: 68
Posts: 653
It all smacks of a funeral, this general pull back from film, seen throughout the industry. It is not hard to imagine a marketplace where new film camera production will come to an end.
Currently, film is caught in a "Catch 22" situation. As the demand for film and film cameras, continues to decline, the manufacturers continue to drop even more of them from their product lines. The public sees all of this as a signal to shift more towards digital, even as their choices of cameras and film become more limited (not to mention finding convenient developers of film). So for now this will be the "new norm" until such time as the film marketplace stabilizes. Perhaps when that happens, there would be enough of a demand leftover to support maybe one company producing a line of film cameras (Cosina??).
Lately, I have begun to notice more "choice" film cameras & related items, showing up in the used marketplace (which is alright with me). IMHO, this is just another indication of the shift away from film now making its way felt within the "collector market". As these collectors perceive a devaluation of their assets, (weather true or not), this becomes the prime factor in their sell-off.
Add to that, the world's troubled economy and its effect on the demise of film cameras and there's no limit as to where we could go with that..., ,
__________________
Mike Blache'
N.H.S. member

“Light scratches consistent with age and wear”


  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #29
kshapero
Press the Shutter
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,817
Have you ever seen a well used ZM silver? Ages downright ugly. Looks like a chipped toy. Black ZM's, Yay!! Sad though as I predict all ZM's will go up in price.
__________________
Akiva S.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #30
bensyverson
Registered User
 
bensyverson is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chicago
Posts: 629
Zeiss has stated unequivocally that they won't be producing a digital ZI, because they're not a camera company. They do lens design. Cosina produces this stuff, so you'd have to convince Cosina that a digital Ikon can thrive alongside Fujifilm's X series, Sony's NEX series, and the Micro 4/3 lineup.

Considering that the Epson RD-1 was probably not the best experience for them, you may be waiting a long time for another M-mount digital from Cosina.
__________________
me on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #31
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 19,953
Wow, 3 of the 4 models they offered have been discontinued. I guess it is hard to play second fiddle to all of the used Leicas in the world. CV does well enough because of the price.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #32
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 19,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Zeiss has stated unequivocally that they won't be producing a digital ZI, because they're not a camera company. They do lens design. Cosina produces this stuff, so you'd have to convince Cosina that a digital Ikon can thrive alongside Fujifilm's X series, Sony's NEX series, and the Micro 4/3 lineup.
Wait, are you saying Zeiss just has the ZI because CV wanted them to do it? There is no way that Zeiss doesn't direct CV in its camera producing endeavors. Why would Zeiss let another company make its decisions for it?
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #33
sojournerphoto
Registered User
 
sojournerphoto is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Zeiss has stated unequivocally that they won't be producing a digital ZI, because they're not a camera company. They do lens design. Cosina produces this stuff, so you'd have to convince Cosina that a digital Ikon can thrive alongside Fujifilm's X series, Sony's NEX series, and the Micro 4/3 lineup.

Considering that the Epson RD-1 was probably not the best experience for them, you may be waiting a long time for another M-mount digital from Cosina.

I've not seen that one. I understand that the reason there is no DZI is that the cost and difficulty of achieving a suitable sensor partnership makes the final product uncompetitive. Consider Zeiss' input into the Nokia 808 - that's at the forefront of camera development.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #34
bensyverson
Registered User
 
bensyverson is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chicago
Posts: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Wait, are you saying Zeiss just has the ZI because CV wanted them to do it? There is no way that Zeiss doesn't direct CV in its camera producing endeavors. Why would Zeiss let another company make its decisions for it?
No, I'm sure Zeiss gave Cosina the overall specifications. I have no doubt that they specified a long baselength, large viewfinder, all-metal construction, etc. However, Zeiss did not design the Ikon from scratch only to have Cosina make it on contract. Cosina clearly filled in many of the blanks, as can be seen by looking at a Bessa and Ikon side-by-side.

Zeiss is a lens company. The probably saw what Cosina was doing with the Bessa, and thought "let's have these guys give us an upgraded Bessa so we can sell some M lenses." Well, that was before they realized they could convince DSLR users to buy manual focus lenses. I'm sure they make way more money selling ZE and ZF lenses than ZM lenses and Ikon bodies.
__________________
me on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #35
Kolame
Registered User
 
Kolame is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 173
In combination with the things happening at Kodak, it becomes clear what the Mayas meant with the end of world in 2012.
__________________
Some pictures of mine [blog].
Life’s unfair, but think, not always for your disfavour.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #36
bensyverson
Registered User
 
bensyverson is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chicago
Posts: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by sojournerphoto View Post
I've not seen that one. (snip)
Yeah, sadly they don't seem too interested. Here's a quote from a Zeiss representative:

Quote:
We never built any camera body, and we do not plan to do this within the next future.
The full message is here.
__________________
me on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #37
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 19,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
Zeiss is a lens company. The probably saw what Cosina was doing with the Bessa, and thought "let's have these guys give us an upgraded Bessa so we can sell some M lenses." Well, that was before they realized they could convince DSLR users to buy manual focus lenses. I'm sure they make way more money selling ZE and ZF lenses than ZM lenses and Ikon bodies.
Well, an optics company, not just a lens company, but I get your point.

http://www.zeiss.com/4125681C00466C2...256B75005EDDEC

I really would have thought Zeiss designed the ZI at least. Of course they didn't build it. CV builds bodies for other companies as well, but assumed they were designed by the companies which commissioned the body from CV and not designed by CV.
I'm sure they do make more off of its SLR lenses... and that is why its M lenses are always out of stock... because it put its efforts were the money is to be made.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #38
kmallick
Registered User
 
kmallick is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 540
Darn! The effect of high cost for silver is taking its toll everywhere....
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #39
bensyverson
Registered User
 
bensyverson is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chicago
Posts: 629
In the case of Zeiss and Cosina, it really seems that Zeiss wanted to differentiate its camera from the Bessa line, so there are a number of technical and cosmetic differences. Obviously only the Zeiss and Cosina executives could tell us the design process, but I would imagine it was a back and forth collaboration to create a distinctive camera that could be made for less than a Leica, but more than a Bessa.

If you look at the Bessa line, you understand why they're inexpensive. Not because they're poorly made, but because they reuse the same parts in different cameras. In manufacturing, tooling a new part is expensive, so reusing it drops your cost. Look at the back of the Bessaflex TM, an SLR, and a Bessa R2A. Same film door, grip, advance lever.

The Ikon uses many specially tooled parts, which is probably the main reason for the price premium over the Bessa line. They can't amortize that tooling over multiple cameras. But it's also obvious that the two lines share a lot of DNA.
__________________
me on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-09-2012   #40
BobYIL
Registered User
 
BobYIL's Avatar
 
BobYIL is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,262
Actually the cost of silver has peaked back in May 2011, $48/oz and then falling down, currently $34/oz. I believe the availability of some half million film Leicas still finding buyers for up to the cost of new ZI bodies could be one of the reasons.

BTW, Cosina seems to be a good candidate for realizing the low cost-all manual, unsophisticated digital rangefinder if we think that they still are able to offer the second best film rangefinder for some $1.600. (And to accomplish it they do not need Zeiss..)
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 13:16.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.