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Old 10-02-2019   #81
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Walking out of my local grocery store (Trader Joe's in Marina Del Rey - amazing location on the water!) a gentleman saw my film camera and approached me.
He then proceeded to ask me what was going on, is film coming back? Because he had just been to Disneyland and was shocked to see so many people with film cameras.
"Some of the photographers were as young as 12!"

Cool to hear!

Now back to your regular programming.
Shhhhhh! Don't let the secret out...
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Old 10-02-2019   #82
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By the way, some of those concert pix from back in the day posted above are not very good at all, by today's digital standards. With an entry level full frame SLR and a 85/1.8 lens, it would be very easy to beat them. They would look more like the Jimi Hendrix pic, except that it could also be in correct color and with less grain.
Agreed .

I can`t say that I was that happy with those of mine I posted .
I only posted as an example of how bad they could be .
I wasn`t happy even back in the day and certainly wouldn`t be happy with them now .

I went to lots of gigs back then (and worked on a few) but never took my camera again.
Marshall could do it but he was good and had much better access than most .

You`re right ,even an entry level DSLR would beat them now and something like an A7S knock `em out of the ball park.
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Old 10-03-2019   #83
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Originally Posted by Smaug View Post
By the way, some of those concert pix from back in the day posted above are not very good at all, by today's digital standards. With an entry level full frame SLR and a 85/1.8 lens, it would be very easy to beat them. They would look more like the Jimi Hendrix pic, except that it could also be in correct color and with less grain.
Just shows it's a matter of taste and/or appropriateness for the subject. Some people would consider the digital worse because it's images are cleaner.

Outside of that, if you're a pro shooting a concert (or anything else) you'd be a fool not to use digital from a cost perspective and speed of turn around for the client.
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Old 10-03-2019   #84
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Originally Posted by Smaug View Post
By the way, some of those concert pix from back in the day posted above are not very good at all, by today's digital standards. With an entry level full frame SLR and a 85/1.8 lens, it would be very easy to beat them. They would look more like the Jimi Hendrix pic, except that it could also be in correct color and with less grain.
I can, and do, enjoy images that others make using both digital and film cameras. The reality for me is that as far as music concert photography is concerned, I found all of the old film-based images to be more interesting than the image from the electronica dance concert that started this whole sub-discussion simply because they actually captured musicians in the process of creating music.

But I do get your point as well as those made by others in favor of digital cameras for certain applications. Especially if you are doing this for a living as opposed to just having fun as I am. Earlier this year I attended a concert in a very small venue that was a combination guitar store and bar that sometimes features live music. I had never been to this place before and did not know what to expect. It turned out that there was very little in the way of lighting so I chose some Ilford Delta 3200 film and gave it my best try. I surely would have obtained different results with a digital camera, and would have known on the spot whether or not I was achieving any success.

In the end I had a lot of fun just working to make the images and I managed to end up with a few that did a nice job of capturing the mood of the evening. I also ended up with a few people commenting on my use of a film camera. Not that this last bit really matters, but it does seem to be in keeping with the topic of the thread. Look, I realize that my photography skills leave a lot to be desired, but that doesn't keep me from having fun. For people like me that are treating photography purely as a casual creative exercise, film photography brings brings it's own unique challenges and therefore unique fun and unique rewards to the mix. I'll admit I find it interesting that there are people out there who are now just discovering this for themselves. I'll continue to watch with interest as it all plays out while enjoying the work of others, regardless of the camera type used. After all, one of the things I appreciate about this forum is how much inspiration I can find here and that has almost nothing to do with the camera being used.



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Old 10-03-2019   #85
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Well, I'm going by this thought process. Correct me if I'm wrong:

1) In Adams' heyday, film and lens constraints meant that in order to make big sharp prints with a full tonal range, one needed a big negative. Ergo 8x10 and 5x7 view cameras with which he made most of his famous images. What was film speed? ASA 25? Tripos were strictly required for all serious images.

2) By 1960 or before (but not in his early days) medium format, while smaller than large format was to the point in film emulsions and lens quality that they could make decent enlargements and with good tonal range. The example above somewhat proves that.

3) These days, with 60 MP "full frame" sensors and our awesome glass and coatings, more is possible than was with 35 mm. Maybe it would even exceed medium format image quality from 1960... With digital medium format, and modern optics I bet it could easily match the image quality of a 5x7 view camera with 1960 optics and emulsions... Heck, he may not have even needed his woody wagon to carry bulky gear around.
I don't argue any of that, and I completely agree that modern optics and digital sensors are straight-up amazing. But everyone knows Adams, if we could dig him up and reconstitute his brain, would see the limitations of sharpness in this abrasive world and revert to his early career pictorial softness by converting his Holga to a pinhole.

Tina Modotti, btw, would definitely be a M4/3 zealot, probably Olympus, and certainly primes.

;-)
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Old 10-03-2019   #86
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The great thing about using an iphone at a concert is anyone can do it. No skill needed.

Which brings up a pet peeve of mine, albeit of a mostly-unrelated topic.

I like to shoot concert videos with my Sony vidcam, but at any venue larger than a bar, I'm not allowed to bring it. But there will be 10,000 people there filming it with their phones...
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Old 10-03-2019   #87
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It's quite a bit more difficult with a moving subject.


No, I've done it, and it CAN Be done. But Digital is pretty clearly easier to get good results. No matter WHO you are or how experienced you are.
I’m agree.

If some one needs to have clear picture, it is easy with digital.
But then I asked why my daughter wants to take two film cameras instead of one digital to Europe, she told me what she likes how results looks like.

I think most of the Disney attendees with film cameras are not pushing their professional limits, either.

For some if picture is sharp and no motion blur, but technically correct colour - it is nice picture. But for some it is dental exam boring picture.
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Old 10-03-2019   #88
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I know it was to be expected, but this really isn't a thread about film vs digital. Of course digital is incredible if that's what you want.
It was about a complete stranger approaching me and telling me about all the film camera users he is now seeing, and how surprised he was.
Best part about it was the observation of the young users, because who cares if old farts like us harp on about how great it is?!
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Old 10-03-2019   #89
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Originally Posted by Smaug View Post
Well, I'm going by this thought process. Correct me if I'm wrong:

1) In Adams' heyday, film and lens constraints meant that in order to make big sharp prints with a full tonal range, one needed a big negative. Ergo 8x10 and 5x7 view cameras with which he made most of his famous images. What was film speed? ASA 25? Tripos were strictly required for all serious images.

2) By 1960 or before (but not in his early days) medium format, while smaller than large format was to the point in film emulsions and lens quality that they could make decent enlargements and with good tonal range. The example above somewhat proves that.

3) These days, with 60 MP "full frame" sensors and our awesome glass and coatings, more is possible than was with 35 mm. Maybe it would even exceed medium format image quality from 1960... With digital medium format, and modern optics I bet it could easily match the image quality of a 5x7 view camera with 1960 optics and emulsions... Heck, he may not have even needed his woody wagon to carry bulky gear around.
Smaug, About optics & emulsions, (hyper) sharp does not = good. A parallel exists with musical instruments loud doesn't = tone. If HD digital appeals to you that's fine, but the reason people continue to photograph with Tessars & Dagors & Planars & (insert your favourite) instead of Apo-Sironar-S or Leitz Asph...is because of tonality and character. You should look at some (real) prints with 5x7 negatives & '60s or earlier optics..... I'll take Joe Pass over hip-hop any day of the week.
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Old 10-03-2019   #90
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The great thing about using an iphone at a concert is anyone can do it. No skill needed.

And that is exactly why film is coming back, and why strangers come up to me to tell me about it.
Come on man, plenty of amateurs used film to make concerts photos for many years. And let`s be honest... the iPhone isn`t a great low light tool and typically only has a wide angle and normal lens ... so it isn`t very easy to make a great concert photo with an iPhone either. High ISO on an iPhone is about 400. And that will look like a painting when you print it at 8x10".
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Old 10-03-2019   #91
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Come on man, plenty of amateurs used film to make concerts photos for many years. And let`s be honest... the iPhone isn`t a great low light tool and typically only has a wide angle and normal lens ... so it isn`t very easy to make a great concert photo with an iPhone either. High ISO on an iPhone is about 400. And that will look like a painting when you print it at 8x10".



Those amateurs had a semblance of knowledge.


Yeah, I've looked at my low light iphone pics which looked great on the phone's screen. At any print size larger than 5x7 it was as you describe. A blotchy mess.
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Old 10-03-2019   #92
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I live in a 80.000 inhabitants town not far from Milan. There is still a lab run by a couple of young guys which develops and prints film. They sell some as well but not a large selection. They also sell Polaroids films.
Development and print of a 36 exposure film cost around 20 EUR (10x15 cm) and you can decide if glossy or matt paper.
Biggest part of their work is about digital. But film is still there. Otherwise they would not keep the machine running.
It's true, 20 years ago or more there were at least 4 similar places in my town...just to go back to the original topic
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Old 10-03-2019   #93
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Previously on this forum I've mentioned the lab here in Portland where I take my film for processing as I was surprised when they informed me earlier this year that their business was at an all time high (they have been in business since 1946). It appears that they've continued to get busier. I'm happy for them and am glad that they are doing well. But the impacts from their success has finally worked it's way down to me. The last time I stopped by to drop off some film there were far more people dropping off / picking up film than I've ever seen causing a considerable wait and turnaround times have increased as well. Just an observation, not a complaint as I'm glad they are around.
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Old 10-04-2019   #94
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I went out the other day with my Contax T3, took a few choice photos.

In the CBD on the weekend, I saw a guy with a nice black Leica M7 with a Zeiss Biogon 35 and hood.

That same day, there was a guy with a Leica Q, and one with a Ricoh GR variant.
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Old 10-04-2019   #95
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On my way to work I was asked if my camera is with film.
I went to check two well known stores in Toronto DT after work to see how they are doing.
Henry’s where I purchased many times film supplies is gone. MacDonalds took over.
Downtown camera which used to be less than Henry’s for film is at new location.
What is surprising, their main accent on business reflected on space taken is film.
I haven’t seen any store doing this. Main entrance is all about film. Impressive selection.
Developers I never seen before. New HC-110, it is much more liquid. They have e6 and c41 kits. I never seen it in stores in Canada. Argentix.ca sells them on-line.
Some fancy dr paper, not just illfmere. And so on.
They gave more space for Leica. But rest of digital is less space as it was.
Used film gear section is larger at this new location.
With same grumpy Asian guy
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Old 10-04-2019   #96
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
On my way to work I was asked if my camera is with film.
I went to check two well known stores in Toronto DT after work to see how they are doing.
Henry’s where I purchased many times film supplies is gone. MacDonalds took over.
Downtown camera which used to be less than Henry’s for film is at new location.
What is surprising, their main accent on business reflected on space taken is film.
I haven’t seen any store doing this. Main entrance is all about film. Impressive selection.
Developers I never seen before. New HC-110, it is much more liquid. They have e6 and c41 kits. I never seen it in stores in Canada. Argentix.ca sells them on-line.
Some fancy dr paper, not just illfmere. And so on.
They gave more space for Leica. But rest of digital is less space as it was.
Used film gear section is larger at this new location.
With same grumpy Asian guy
Salespersons do not like customers who are more knowledgeable than they are.


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Old 10-04-2019   #97
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Film has been around us. It still is.
When I bought my M9, I immediately then bought a film camera (SWC) that I wanted to link me to film. I wanted to make sure that using a digital M will not take away film from me.
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Old 10-04-2019   #98
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I went to check two well known stores in Toronto DT after work to see how they are doing.
Henry’s where I purchased many times film supplies is gone. MacDonalds took over.
Downtown camera which used to be less than Henry’s for film is at new location.
What is surprising, their main accent on business reflected on space taken is film.
I haven’t seen any store doing this. Main entrance is all about film. Impressive selection.
Developers I never seen before. New HC-110, it is much more liquid. They have e6 and c41 kits. I never seen it in stores in Canada. Argentix.ca sells them on-line.
Some fancy dr paper, not just illfmere. And so on.
They gave more space for Leica. But rest of digital is less space as it was.
Used film gear section is larger at this new location.
Your experience in Toronto reminds me of my observations regarding a few local businesses here in Portland. It seems as if photography related businesses that retained a connection to film photography while still managing to stay in business are now possibly benefitting from their dedication to film photography.
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Old 10-04-2019   #99
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Film has been around us. It still is.
When I bought my M9, I immediately then bought a film camera (SWC) that I wanted to link me to film. I wanted to make sure that using a digital M will not take away film from me.

I have an on-off relationship with film, though. On one hand, I love the character and colours of film with my favourite cameras and lenses. On the other, I prefer the ease, convenience and overall quality of digital.

Prior to buying my M9, I had moved away from film after buying the Sigma DP1, which gave me a film-like output in digital form. But after getting the M9, I bought a M7 because I loved the feel of shooting with the M9, and the M7 felt even better in the hand. And yet, in the nine years I've had the M7, I've put maybe 12-15 rolls through it. Some of us (cough cough Petronius) can shoot that in a month. The convenience of digital just wins out for me, and I tend to save film for special or unique occasions.
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Old 10-05-2019   #100
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Returning to the original theme, I was at the Bugatti Owner's Club autumn meet at their hill climb today. Lots of old cars and lots of people out with their cameras. I normally take a Rolleiflex and a 35mm (normally a Leica but today a Nikon FE that played up despite me changing the batteries) and until the last meet I had never seen anyone at all with a film camera. The last meet there was someone with an M2 to match mine. This time, two student age young men with both digital (chimping away simultaneously - I think I got a photo) and a Pentax K1000 each which both also used.

Finally, as I queued for coffee with the amiable coffee bike team (one of who managed Boots Camera department in Swansea and who always chat about whichever camera I've got) someone behind me had an Exakta - no idea which model - in exquisite condition.

Something is definitely up.
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Old 10-06-2019   #101
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I wonder if the rise of phone cameras is giving film a boost ? An increasing number of people aren't buying digital cameras anymore because their phone does everything they need in that respect. Film however gives a different experience.

Hopefully as digital camera sales die (consumer DSLRs the next to go), Nikon, Canon, Fuji etc will wake up and realise that film cameras give them a niche in the increasing dominance of phone cameras.
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Old 10-06-2019   #102
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I have an on-off relationship with film, though. On one hand, I love the character and colours of film with my favourite cameras and lenses. On the other, I prefer the ease, convenience and overall quality of digital.

Prior to buying my M9, I had moved away from film after buying the Sigma DP1, which gave me a film-like output in digital form. But after getting the M9, I bought a M7 because I loved the feel of shooting with the M9, and the M7 felt even better in the hand. And yet, in the nine years I've had the M7, I've put maybe 12-15 rolls through it. Some of us (cough cough Petronius) can shoot that in a month. The convenience of digital just wins out for me, and I tend to save film for special or unique occasions.

Where are some folks like me who went seriously on film then general public was ditching film cameras and developing on every corner has vanished as result of it.
I would go to remaining stores selling film and else related to film and I would be single person in this section, all the time.
Toronto Lomography store didn't last long as film only store. I went to BH in 2017 and purchased all of their in stock Kodak 400 UltraMax film. It was just under 30 rolls...
This famous gentleman on the corner with press camera asked me - why are you putting this film packaging on recycle? If you keep it, eventually it will become collectible and you could sell this old film packaging.
I had to use film before it disappeared. This was my feeling.

When I walked to new, film oriented Downtown camera store on Friday and saw people inline at film section... I don't know how to describe it, but I have kind of relief.
With two hours one way commute I'm tired of film. My M4-2 with regular use went for service twice. And still need parts, service to be perfect.
Thinking of letting it go with another couple of film cameras and getting used M240 to become my everyday, everywhere camera.
It will be pity to answer "no" then stranger on Toronto streets will asks if it is film camera, but, I will still have couple of good film cameras, film and darkroom to do it once in a while.
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Old 10-06-2019   #103
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I wonder if the rise of phone cameras is giving film a boost ? An increasing number of people aren't buying digital cameras anymore because their phone does everything they need in that respect. Film however gives a different experience.
And there are the film filters for cellphone pictures that might give newbies some initial exposure to what film looks like, until they start to see real film pictures and realize the digital filters are severely lacking in comparison.
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Old 10-06-2019   #104
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Back from where? I was not aware film had gone anywhere.
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Old 10-06-2019   #105
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Back from where? I was not aware film had gone anywhere.
It is safe to say that it had pretty much escaped the public consciousness.
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Old 10-06-2019   #106
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Previously on this forum I've mentioned the lab here in Portland where I take my film for processing as I was surprised when they informed me earlier this year that their business was at an all time high...
Blue Moon? I went down there yesterday and the place was packed. A young woman was buying an RB67 outfit, another guy was looking at OM-1's. I had my eye on a plain prism F2 (didn't buy it - I've got too many F2's). They had several Bolex H16 cameras and a wall full of film. I was there last year and the place is even busier now. I send my Minox and 110 film to them for processing and printing.

Another is Pro Photo Supply - both digital and film. I think Citizens Photo is still around as well.
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Old 10-06-2019   #107
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Blue Moon? I went down there yesterday and the place was packed. A young woman was buying an RB67 outfit, another guy was looking at OM-1's. I had my eye on a plain prism F2 (didn't buy it - I've got too many F2's). They had several Bolex H16 cameras and a wall full of film. I was there last year and the place is even busier now. I send my Minox and 110 film to them for processing and printing.

Another is Pro Photo Supply - both digital and film. I think Citizens Photo is still around as well.
Citizens Photo is in fact the lab I was referring to (they are located near NE Sandy and 31st Avenue). I've been using Citizens ever since puling the film cameras back into use. It used to be that I would have the chance to discuss with them how their business was doing. I was initially surprised when I learned their business was at an all-time high until I stopped to think about how many other labs had closed. They are obviously busy enough now that I don't even need to ask anymore.

When I find myself up in St. Johns I do try to stop by Blue Moon when time permits. Great store and I'm really happy to see them doing well, especially since they had the nerve to open a business dedicated to film photography, typewriters, etc. back in 2001. Even their name is awesome: Blue Moon Camera and Machine. Pro Photo Supply is another good store.
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Old 10-06-2019   #108
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With two hours one way commute I'm tired of film. My M4-2 with regular use went for service twice. And still need parts, service to be perfect.
Thinking of letting it go with another couple of film cameras and getting used M240 to become my everyday, everywhere camera.
It will be pity to answer "no" then stranger on Toronto streets will asks if it is film camera, but, I will still have couple of good film cameras, film and darkroom to do it once in a while.

In the past couple of years, I've seen a fair number of people in Melbourne with film cameras, and often they are young. A young woman who looked like she would be about uni age had a lovely champagne Contax G1 around her neck with 45mm lens, which surprised me. I've seen people with Canon AE1s, a T90, and the occasional Pentax and Olympus, although I have yet to see a Minolta.


It's a bit sad that you'll be downscaling your use of film; I love the images you make with the M4-2 and Summarit. There's a really strong old school documentary vibe to your work which I hope will remain if/when you move to a M240.
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Old 10-06-2019   #109
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Film is always a Fun good thing but so is digi

I think I have been hearing about Film making a ‘comeback’
as long as I have been here at Rff ...since 2008
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Old 10-06-2019   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
Film is always a Fun good thing but so is digi

I think I have been hearing about Film making a ‘comeback’
as long as I have been here at Rff ...since 2008

Helen, you shoot a mix of film and digi these days? Or do you mostly use the M9 now?
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Old 10-07-2019   #111
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Originally Posted by olifaunt View Post
And there are the film filters for cellphone pictures that might give newbies some initial exposure to what film looks like, until they start to see real film pictures and realize the digital filters are severely lacking in comparison.
The VSCO ones are awful, even Fuji can't get it right with their film simulations in the X series cameras.
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Old 10-07-2019   #112
Yokosuka_Mike
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Walking out of my local grocery store (Trader Joe's in Marina Del Rey - amazing location on the water!) a gentleman saw my film camera and approached me.
He then proceeded to ask me what was going on, is film coming back? Because he had just been to Disneyland and was shocked to see so many people with film cameras.
"Some of the photographers were as young as 12!"

Cool to hear!

Now back to your regular programming.
Yes, Huss, that is cool to hear.

For awhile it was quite common in Yokohama to see young girls out shooting with TLR cameras, there'd usually be a group of them. They'd be laughing, and taking pictures of each other - they were having good fun.

Recently I don't see so many TLRs but there are always some SLRs and RFs hanging around somebody's neck. It's always nice to see.

All the best,
Mike
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Old 10-08-2019   #113
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Fuji's "film simulations" are hilarious. In every case, they are 100% totally unrelated to the film that they are supposed to be simulating. At least Acros is a monochrome simulations. After that the similarity ends.
You're the first person I've heard from who doesn't (seem to) like Fuji's film simulations.
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Old 10-08-2019   #114
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Since going back, in part, to film, where batteries last years, I completely forget to charge my digital cameras. I can't overemphasize how nice it feels not to have to charge a camera.
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Old 10-08-2019   #115
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Originally Posted by olifaunt View Post
Since going back, in part, to film, where batteries last years, I completely forget to charge my digital cameras. I can't overemphasize how nice it feels not to have to charge a camera.
Sometimes from my collection I choose to use a fully manual no-meter camera simply because I'm too lazy to fish out the proper silver-oxide / alkaline battery from my Box-O-Batteries in the Camera Room.

However, since lithium-ion batteries for digital cameras are so expensive, I don't let them fully discharge, as such cycling shortens their life. Instead, when they get to about 40% charge, recharge them even if you're not going to use the camera. Best to have two batteries so you can swap in a fully charged one while charging the other.

The battery in my D700 holds its charge for six months or more when not used; the X-Pro1 I let sit for six months, charged it, found my settings lost when I put the charged battery back in.
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Old 10-08-2019   #116
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I met at least 10 film photographers during my summer trip in Croatia, it was very funny!
We looked each other trying to see what kind of camera we were using, with a smile printed on faces 😁
I was always the older one (44)!!!
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Old 10-08-2019   #117
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Go Ted, Go!

I remember exactly how I went seriously and at my own for film in 2012.
Earlier on I was digitizing our film pictures from 2003 and later on. We quit from using film and only camera for family pictures in 2007. I looked at the grainy scan with unlimited colors variations and I started to dig information how to emulate film.
I downloaded 2GB of film emulsions patterns and was ready to learn how to photoshop it over digital image.
And then... I deleted it all and spend few years to learn how to develop and scan film at home.

I don't care how many and who likes film emulations here. Here is another emulation for you .
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Old 10-08-2019   #118
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Count me as thinking they're totally inaccurate and very badly implented, too. But to know that you'd actually have to experience the originals which for some (Astia) is sadly no longer possible.

The film simulations may look good in their own right. But since they're called "simulation" and not effect they're god awful.
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Old 10-09-2019   #119
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Originally Posted by TenEleven View Post
Count me as thinking they're totally inaccurate and very badly implented, too. But to know that you'd actually have to experience the originals which for some (Astia) is sadly no longer possible.

The film simulations may look good in their own right. But since they're called "simulation" and not effect they're god awful.
They're essentially the standard/neutral/portrait/vibrant/b&w profiles for jpg that every other digital camera has, but named after Fuji's film stocks instead.
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Old 10-09-2019   #120
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As reported, a young man with Exakta (and Weston meter) at a classic car event. The film chimpers are on my as yet undeveloped colour roll.

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