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Old 08-26-2019   #41
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Boxing is close to the street. Photographer walks and focus point could be at different distances on different time. It is changing. It has to be quick.
This is why I only deal with lenses which have focus tab. With practice and DoF, focusing is done without RF, but by quick positioning of the focus tab.
It takes time and practice. I used to use Cron Collapsible this way. With f5.6 withing all range, at f2 from three meters and to infinity.
But I prefer 35mm and to get close. If it is training, it could be close as described in OP.
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Old 08-26-2019   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
Not sure what lenses you have at your disposal, but perhaps use as wide a focal length as possible, to give yourself more depth of field to work with?
I've tried to shoot boxing from ringside with a 21mm and 28mm, and while I like the images, sometimes the action takes place on the other side of the ring, and the figures become part of the scenery rather than the main subjects, if that makes sense.

21-28 is great when the fighters are in the middle of the ring or close to you, but mainly for full body images, rather than shoulders-up images. I was aiming for shoulders-up images with the 50.

A good compromise might be 35; I will experiment next time I'm ringside, but it depends on the lighting. Some venues have really cool lighting over the ring, some gyms have the worst lighting ever, hahaha.

Here are a few images from bouts over the last year or so, all taken with the M9 and either the Summicron 50 or Nokton 35/1.2. The training images are NOT like this, as I wanted much closer, tighter images.

Summicron 50:

M9 - Fighters in Stone [explore 2018 07 30 #483] by Archiver, on Flickr

Nokton 35mm f1.2

M9 - Knockdown by Archiver, on Flickr

M9 - The Faceless by Archiver, on Flickr
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Old 08-26-2019   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post


Shot this with a Leica iiig, Summicron 50, and Provia 100, because it was the camera I happened to have with me. Sat on the rail and waited. I like the shot, but rangefinders are not the way to go for "sports photography". Too limiting. Then again, if you are just at the venue to mainly watch the event, and not document it, and only have a rf with you, why not? It's fun trying to overcome limitations.

PS. And, the vf isn't "squinty".
What a great shot! Larry, did you give a copy of this to the young lady in the photograph?

Mike
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Old 08-26-2019   #44
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During the olympics in London there was a journalist who shot the entire event with an iPhone 4s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...012-smartphone
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Old 08-26-2019   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
As Larry says you can be occasionally successful but who wants that.
from the thousands of photos taken by a pro in a gig, how many get published? how many keepers you get per roll? or memory card?
ALL success is occasional.
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Old 08-26-2019   #46
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Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
from the thousands of photos taken by a pro in a gig, how many get published? how many keepers you get per roll? or memory card?
ALL success is occasional.
Of course it is …. hey I shot sports for years with a rangefinder.
All I`m saying is I found it frustrating and that there are easier and more effective ways of doing it with modern equipment.
They wouldn`t be my choice of equipment now , much as I love them .
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Old 08-26-2019   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presspass View Post
Sorry to barge in on this conversation, but it is about the gear. You cannot get a good closeup of the quarterback handing the ball off with a 21mm Elmarit. First of all, they won't let you get close enough. Second, if they did, neither you nor the camera would fare well. True, you can get a sports photo with an Argus - shown above - or a box Brownie, but if you are sent to the event to get publishable photos of specific action, the gear does, indeed, matter.
I think you are mixing Pro with amateur/hobbyist photographer. No pro sports photog will be sent with a rangefinder camera because its not the right tool for this kind of photography. BUT, if you have a 21mm Elmarit, you will still manage to take photos, maybe more interesting than those boring zoomed sports photos we see every day. Dont forget many (if not all) sports photographers have a second body with a wide angle lens.
Google "wide angle sports photography" for beautiful shots taken with wide angle lenses.
As I said before, the rest are excuses.
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Old 08-26-2019   #48
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Originally Posted by santino View Post
During the olympics in London there was a journalist who shot the entire event with an iPhone 4s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...012-smartphone

Some of those images are great, some are more impressionistic than others. Interesting that he used Canon binoculars for the long distance images, and an unidentified Schneider lens.
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Old 08-26-2019   #49
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Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
I know a few people who are still waiting for their occasion.

B2 (;->
Yep , I`m on that list
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Old 08-26-2019   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Markey View Post
Of course it is …. hey I shot sports for years with a rangefinder.
All I`m saying is I found it frustrating and that there are easier and more effective ways of doing it with modern equipment.
They wouldn`t be my choice of equipment now , much as I love them .
I agree, of course it's easier to take photos with a DSLR with AF, but if you don't have one (I don't own any digital cameras nor lenses with AF) you can always take sports shots with a rangefinder. Its all about enjoying our hobby, if you are a pro photog then you will have to take the photos your boss want with the gear your boss will provide.
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Old 08-27-2019   #51
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Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
I agree, of course it's easier to take photos with a DSLR with AF, but if you don't have one (I don't own any digital cameras nor lenses with AF) you can always take sports shots with a rangefinder. Its all about enjoying our hobby, if you are a pro photog then you will have to take the photos your boss want with the gear your boss will provide.
Totally agree and that`s the position I was in .
I think what changed for me was folk started to look forward to the shots (which was very nice) and I suddenly became aware that I was missing a lot of opportunities with the equipment I was using .

"Did you get a shot of me jumping …." well no I didn`t so I started down the route of using something which was more suitable /more reliable for the job.

Before that it was always my M3DS a CV40SC and K64 .
The choice of film alone was a challenge in the low UK winter light
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Old 08-27-2019   #52
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Totally agree and that`s the position I was in .
I think what changed for me was folk started to look forward to the shots (which was very nice) and I suddenly became aware that I was missing a lot of opportunities with the equipment I was using .

"Did you get a shot of me jumping …." well no I didn`t so I started down the route of using something which was more suitable /more reliable for the job.

Before that it was always my M3DS a CV40SC and K64 .
The choice of film alone was a challenge in the low UK winter light

Yeah, the missed opportunities bug me. Of course there will be a lot of hit and miss with fast moving action, even with modern systems, but today's tech should give a lot more keepers than a slow 'watch and shoot' method.

My most modern DSLR is the 5D Mark II from 2009, which I still wouldn't trust with this kind of work. I've tried it in gyms with poor light, and frankly, AF is awful. I'm better off shooting manually with my M9. In a brightly lit ring, maybe. But not in a lot of situations I would shoot in.
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Old 08-27-2019   #53
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Quote:
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Yeah, the missed opportunities bug me. Of course there will be a lot of hit and miss with fast moving action, even with modern systems, but today's tech should give a lot more keepers than a slow 'watch and shoot' method.
Well, if you're shooting boxing, no matter what camera you use there's bound to be a lot of hit and miss.
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Old 08-27-2019   #54
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Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
Yeah, the missed opportunities bug me. Of course there will be a lot of hit and miss with fast moving action, even with modern systems, but today's tech should give a lot more keepers than a slow 'watch and shoot' method.

My most modern DSLR is the 5D Mark II from 2009, which I still wouldn't trust with this kind of work. I've tried it in gyms with poor light, and frankly, AF is awful. I'm better off shooting manually with my M9. In a brightly lit ring, maybe. But not in a lot of situations I would shoot in.

Hi,


If you want to turn out photo's like a pro sports photographer then you are going to have to gear up like one and get a bit more experience. But don't abandon the RF because it will be needed for a lot of other shots.


Regards, David


PS OR you could look at Dan Chung's photo's and just use a smartphone thing...
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Old 08-27-2019   #55
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Armed Forces Day, Thornbury, 30 June 2018 by John Hancock, on Flickr
Kodak Signet 35, Ektar 100. With a mechanical shutter you can know when it is going to 'fire'. Admittedly I had time to prepare the shot, and preparedness for the next one would not be of the fastest.
If I had taken this purely as a sports shot I would of course have cropped to the action.
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Old 08-27-2019   #56
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Hi,


If you want to turn out photo's like a pro sports photographer then you are going to have to gear up like one and get a bit more experience. But don't abandon the RF because it will be needed for a lot of other shots.


Regards, David


PS OR you could look at Dan Chung's photo's and just use a smartphone thing...

Oh, I'm never letting go of rangefinders for sports work, it's hella fun and I enjoy the results when I get them. I think of it like driving a manual racecar from the old days. As for pro sports results, my concession would be something like a Sony A7 III or A9.
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Old 08-27-2019   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
Yeah, the missed opportunities bug me. Of course there will be a lot of hit and miss with fast moving action, even with modern systems, but today's tech should give a lot more keepers than a slow 'watch and shoot' method.

My most modern DSLR is the 5D Mark II from 2009, which I still wouldn't trust with this kind of work. I've tried it in gyms with poor light, and frankly, AF is awful. I'm better off shooting manually with my M9. In a brightly lit ring, maybe. But not in a lot of situations I would shoot in.
Yes I made the mistake of buying a 5D2 and it was hopeless .
I bought a 5D3 and that was much better but still no match for the Sony A7R2 and the A7R2 isn`t considered very quick in Sony terms.

The accurate AF tracking gives me many more keepers though and I can still watch and shoot if I chose to..

It`s all about options for me .
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Old 08-27-2019   #58
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Yes I made the mistake of buying a 5D2 and it was hopeless .
I bought a 5D3 and that was much better but still no match for the Sony A7R2 and the A7R2 isn`t considered very quick in Sony terms.

The accurate AF tracking gives me many more keepers though and I can still watch and shoot if I chose to..

It`s all about options for me .

This is probably just my GAS talking, but I've had my eye on the Sony A system ever since it came out, and it's been getting better and better over the years. I've got a lot of Panasonic gear, but unless Pana release a somewhat smaller and lighter S model, I'm going with something like the A7 III which I can use for stills and video. I get what you mean about options.
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Old 08-27-2019   #59
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Sometimes the RF limitation makes the result better. I like the way the window finder on my M6 makes it easy to track action, but didn't expect to get away with a 1/4 second shutter speed. I was backed into a corner by my 24/3.8 lens and ISO 100 film on a dull day, but ended up with a different and treasured shot of my son on his bicycle.

Leica M6 Elmar-M 24/3.8 at f4 1/4 second Delta 100 in Xtol
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Old 08-27-2019   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yokosuka_Mike View Post
What a great shot! Larry, did you give a copy of this to the young lady in the photograph?

Mike
Hi Mike,

Thanks, and yes I did
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Old 08-27-2019   #61
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I agree, but I find SLR just as frustrating. I pre-focus and hope (this is a Bessa R):

SRVHS Girls 1600 by John Carter, on Flickr
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Old 08-27-2019   #62
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Someone above mentioned the London Olympics, at first I thought of the 1948 Olympics. Some of these were probably taken with a Leica:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=1948+londo...649948952).jpg
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Old 08-27-2019   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
This is probably just my GAS talking, but I've had my eye on the Sony A system ever since it came out, and it's been getting better and better over the years. I've got a lot of Panasonic gear, but unless Pana release a somewhat smaller and lighter S model, I'm going with something like the A7 III which I can use for stills and video. I get what you mean about options.
Sounds a good move .
This whole thing reminds me of a Billy Gibbons interview.
He was working with BB king and King asked if they could swap guitars for a night. Picking up Gibbons guitar he remarked that the strings were heavy gauge . Gibbons replied ,well isn`t that how the old blues masters got that sound. King said ….. well , my question to you is why you working so hard ?
Get some light gauge strings.
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Old 08-27-2019   #64
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Sounds a good move .
This whole thing reminds me of a Billy Gibbons interview.
He was working with BB king and King asked if they could swap guitars for a night. Picking up Gibbons guitar he remarked that the strings were heavy gauge . Gibbons replied ,well isn`t that how the old blues masters got that sound. King said ….. well , my question to you is why you working so hard ?
Get some light gauge strings.
Wonder how many people here know who Billy Gibbons is. I ask this as a sharp dressed man with cheap sunglasses who just left Chicago.
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Old 08-27-2019   #65
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But have you got the beard
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Old 08-27-2019   #66
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But have you got the beard
Sadly, no.
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Old 08-27-2019   #67
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I have a few skate shots from Venice Beach.

M6
Air by Brandon, on Flickr

and Olympus XA
Crail Slide by Brandon, on Flickr
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Old 08-27-2019   #68
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How about a bullfighting Royale with an M2

Untitled
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr


Or boxing with an M9:

Body Training
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr

Who says you can't shoot football with a 21mm lens

Savannah's Finest
by Vince Lupo, on Flickr
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Old 08-27-2019   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcfingon View Post
Sometimes the RF limitation makes the result better. I like the way the window finder on my M6 makes it easy to track action, but didn't expect to get away with a 1/4 second shutter speed. I was backed into a corner by my 24/3.8 lens and ISO 100 film on a dull day, but ended up with a different and treasured shot of my son on his bicycle.

Leica M6 Elmar-M 24/3.8 at f4 1/4 second Delta 100 in Xtol
John Mc
great shot! and exactly what I meant before, sometimes a wide and a rangefinder could take more interesting photos than a DSLR and a zoom.
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Old 08-27-2019   #70
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Sancti Spiritus Cuba - shot with a ZI rangefinder and a 28mm lens. It makes a world of difference that Cuba espouses a belief of self responsibility. If you want to photograph a rodeo by standing out in the arena, no problem as it is simply your responsibility not to get injured.

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Old 08-27-2019   #71
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Rafael Trejo boxing gym in Centro Havana. Shot with a ZI rangefinder and 28mm lens. Several years later, a Cuban saw this photo in my book and told me the boxer in the background ready to land a punch had represented Cuba in the Olympics.

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Old 08-27-2019   #72
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Wow, these images are superb! Thank you for the input and inspiration.
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Old 08-27-2019   #73
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@charjohncarter - so this was shot with a 90mm Elmarit on a Bessa R, very nice.

@Vince Lupo - these images are stunning, they've got a real classic reportage look to them.

@mcfingon - I love that image of your son on the bicycle.

@Bob Michaels - that boxing image from Cuba is the sh**. Gotta get something like that going.
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Old 08-27-2019   #74
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Last week, I was able to shoot a sports team training indoors. I have to say that trying to shoot them with a rangefinder was not fun. Because I usually shoot wide open or close to it, trying to focus on fast moving bodies was difficult. I tried stopping down, but ran into ISO limitations with my M9, especially when trying to freeze action. The best I could do was f2.8 at 1/500 shutter speed, and limiting the ISO so I could push the images in post.

I did get some keepers, but the experience was frustrating and left me wanting a blazing autofocus camera like a Sony A9 or Canon 1DX II. My GH4 shot a fair few images with my Voigtlander lenses on high speed burst, but these images lack that special sauce that I get with the M9, or even the Ricoh GXR-M.

So how do you guys do it? Are there any helpful ideas for shooting sports with a rangefinder? I know it's not optimal, but it's the best I've got for now.
I usually shoot sports, such as indoor basketball, using a Nikon D750 at ISO 6400. There have been times when I've shot with my Mamiya 7, but that was with studio lights mounted on the gym ceiling triggered with Pocket Wizards. But that was only possible by using zone focues and waiting for the action to occur at the right distance.
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Old 08-27-2019   #75
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I don't have any RF examples, but I shoot my friends skateboarding and always use manual focus regardless of the camera I use. The key is to set focus on where you think the action is going to be and just wait for it to happen. Whenever I shoot skateboarding I set my focus and composition, then let my friend go and fire the shutter when it needs to happen. Here's some examples all shot wide open or close to it:
Olympus E-M5ii w/ Nikon 50mm f1.4 AI


Nikon FM2n w/ Voigtlander 40mm

Nikon FM2n w/ Nikon 50mm f1.4
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Old 08-27-2019   #76
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Sad to say it, but I find the digital SLR the easiest to do sports:

Pentax K1 by John Carter, on Flickr

Just not as rewarding.
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Old 08-27-2019   #77
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During the olympics in London there was a journalist who shot the entire event with an iPhone 4s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...012-smartphone
Looking through them I kept on thinking how much better they would be if he had used better equipment.
This just proved that he could shoot the Olympics with his phone. But not do the best job by doing that.
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Old 08-27-2019   #78
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Sometimes the RF limitation makes the result better. I like the way the window finder on my M6 makes it easy to track action, but didn't expect to get away with a 1/4 second shutter speed. I was backed into a corner by my 24/3.8 lens and ISO 100 film on a dull day, but ended up with a different and treasured shot of my son on his bicycle.

Leica M6 Elmar-M 24/3.8 at f4 1/4 second Delta 100 in Xtol
John Mc
Great pic!
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Old 08-28-2019   #79
David Hughes
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Looking through them I kept on thinking how much better they would be if he had used better equipment.
This just proved that he could shoot the Olympics with his phone. But not do the best job by doing that.

Hi,


That's very true but a lot of people would have been proud to have taken a lot of those shots. I blame forums for setting those challenges, because that's what they are.


Regards, David
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Old 08-28-2019   #80
Axel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Looking through them I kept on thinking how much better they would be if he had used better equipment...
Perhaps a rangefinder?


What I see in this pictures is interesting and good photography.
Sure it depends on personal prefs what you are thinking while viewing.


Btw. - as an owner of an IPhone 4 for long years now I know that every rangefinder is a real sports shooting gun
compared with this slowmotion smartie of the early smartphone aera.
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