Old 12-04-2017   #41
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I almost exclusively shoot old lenses with unique signatures. In large format, a lot of Petzvals and pre-war soft focus lenses. In small format here are a few I like:

Pizar 25mm


Dallmeyer 25mm F1.9


Pizar again


Dallmeyer again
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Old 12-04-2017   #42
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I think the bokeh from the Canon 50/1.8 can be quite nice. Very smooth, IMO. Mine is the first chrome and black version. Here are some samples:

Sao Domingos by bingley0522, on Flickr

Untitled by bingley0522, on Flickr

Mineral by bingley0522, on Flickr
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Old 12-04-2017   #43
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The Summitar has been mentioned in this thread. Here are some pix showing the bokeh from coated versions of that lens.

Keizersgracht by bingley0522, on Flickr

Father and daughter by bingley0522, on Flickr
Good-Soup by bingley0522, on Flickr
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Old 12-04-2017   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goamules View Post
I almost exclusively shoot old lenses with unique signatures. In large format, a lot of Petzvals and pre-war soft focus lenses. In small format here are a few I like:

Dallmeyer 25mm F1.9



Dallmeyer again
I especially like the Dallmeyer shots. Very nice.
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Old 12-04-2017   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
Peter from the samples of the original post I take it that you may, above all, look for lenses that do "doughnut" shaped bubbles with a thinner outer ring as created by mirror tele lenses.

the Nikkor-S.C f1.4 5cm ( I downed clarity in LR a lot, otherwide the bubbles and their outer ring would have been quite a bit more pronounced, too harsh for my taste )

Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr

Canon LTM f1.8/85 can do it ( though bokeh is smooth when stopped down )

Harley Davidson
by andreas, on Flickr


Takumar f1.4/50mm also "can" do it

Bamboo
by andreas, on Flickr

concerning Canon LTM, the f1.4 is more contrasty then f1.2 and f1.5, but neverthless the f1.4 imo seems to produce bokeh that isn't dissimilar to that produced by the f1.2

Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr

my f1.5/50 has very low contrast, lovely, and, as imo all 50mm Canon LTMs, not bubbly:

Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr

for a low contrast but smooth bokeh Olympus Olympus OM F.Zuiko Auto-T f2 85mm, that is the first version with single coating


offering incense during Vietnamese New Year
by andreas, on Flickr

though later MC version should be fine too, other smooth bokeh, rel. low contrast include Om Zuiko f2.8/100mm,Minolta MC Rokkor f2.5/100mm, Super Takumar f1.9/85mm...

very fun, individual bokeh, cat's eye and swirly, for rel. wide angle, Pen-F Zuiko f1.8/38


Happy Lunar New Year
by andreas, on Flickr

different but fun too, Canon LTM f1.8/35mm


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr

similar: MC Rokkor-PF f1.4 58mm

Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr


Kuuan, I would not say that I am specially or specifically looking for bubble/dohnut bokeh. But it is one "option" as I have written elsewhere in this thread. While many decry it (and it can be over done) I like it when it is done well and it is not "over the top". And the shots you have shown, particularly the first one do look good to my eye. Probably my favourite bokeh is the very smooth melty bokeh which smooths out into pastel colors with no defined shape. Like your Canon 50mm f1.5 (always one of my favourite lenses on all counts.)
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Old 12-04-2017   #46
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Here is another with the Dallmeyer. For the closest full frame/35mm format lens, I'd look at a Nikkor 50/1.4.

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Old 12-04-2017   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter View Post
Kuuan, How did you do that with the Super-Takumar f1.4 50mm. I've used mine since 1969 and never had those rings? What's the trick?
I wished I could say that. Generally I consider bokeh of the 1.4/50 Takumars as quite smooth. Soup bubbles are possible though, the distance of the oof highlight to the focus plane must be "correct" and I'd say they are more likely with the later S-M-C than with the earlier Super Takumar.

btw. an interesting article about bokeh: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...standing-bokeh
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Old 12-04-2017   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
I wished I could say that. Generally I consider bokeh of the 1.4/50 Takumars as quite smooth. Soup bubbles are possible though, the distance of the oof highlight to the focus plane must be "correct" and I'd say they are more likely with the later S-M-C than with the earlier Super Takumar.

btw. an interesting article about bokeh: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...standing-bokeh
Thanks for the article, I have a Thorium f1.4 which has to be cleared every couple of years. But as it is Christmas time I may try to get some 'soap bubble' bokeh. There are lots of lights around my house now.

Thorium Cure by John Carter, on Flickr
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Old 12-04-2017   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post

Probably my favourite bokeh is the very smooth melty bokeh which smooths out into pastel colors with no defined shape.
for pastel colors and smooth bokeh and lenses I have experience with early Takumars, that is preset and Auto Takumars, come to my mind.
The rare "Sonnar" f2/58mm may even be a bit similar to the Dallmeyer shown?


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr


cosmos
by andreas, on Flickr

but also the cheaply available Auto Takumar f2/55mm, the medium priced Auto Takumar f1.8/85mm and Super Takumar f1.9/85mm, preset and Auto Takumar f2.8/105mm, preset 3.5/135,
one by Auto Takmar f2.8/105mm


passiflora
by andreas, on Flickr

generally, early, single coated lenses,
guess you may like this one, Komura LTM f3.5/100mm, early version

Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr
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Old 12-04-2017   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter View Post
Thanks for the article, I have a Thorium f1.4 which has to be cleared every couple of years. But as it is Christmas time I may try to get some 'soap bubble' bokeh. There are lots of lights around my house now.

Thorium Cure by John Carter, on Flickr
wow, nicc set up for clearing the lens. My S-M-C Takumar that had been quite yellowed cleared up simply because I used it very much in tropical countries with strong sun, it used to be my most used lens for quite a few years. Christmas light make a great subject for bubbles

this is pretty much the only soupy bubbles that I have taken with the ( later 7 element ) Super Takumar f1.4/50mm


Tuk Tuk
by andreas, on Flickr
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Old 12-04-2017   #51
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My Super-Takumar 50mm f1.4 was in the tropics for 3.5 years, I still think it was the thorium that yellows. Easy to clean though. I did put my f1.4 on an DSLR tonight and played around with Christmas Tree lights. I did get some soapy bubbles, I'll have to work harder to equal yours. Thank you and good shooting.
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Old 12-04-2017   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
for pastel colors and smooth bokeh and lenses I have experience with early Takumars, that is preset and Auto Takumars, come to my mind.
The rare "Sonnar" f2/58mm may even be a bit similar to the Dallmeyer shown?


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr


Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr


cosmos
by andreas, on Flickr

but also the cheaply available Auto Takumar f2/55mm, the medium priced Auto Takumar f1.8/85mm and Super Takumar f1.9/85mm, preset and Auto Takumar f2.8/105mm, preset 3.5/135,
one by Auto Takmar f2.8/105mm


passiflora
by andreas, on Flickr

generally, early, single coated lenses,
guess you may like this one, Komura LTM f3.5/100mm, early version

Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr
You are right about the early Takumars. Lenses like the 55mm f2.2 (and f2) auto Takumar, the 85mm f1.8 auto Takumar, the 105mm f2.8 Auto Takumar and preset and the same for the early 135s are easily amongst my favorites.

And I was surprised at how many of them had a Sonnar design or a derivative of that optical formula till I looked at this page http://www.klassik-cameras.de/Pentax_Takumar_e.html.

I feel a little sheepish - people keep coming up with lenses I already have and to extent take for granted. But the grass is always greener I suppose. BTW some very nice photos in your set.

I feel kind of sheepish - the
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Old 12-04-2017   #53
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Old 12-05-2017   #54
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Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
You are right about the early Takumars. Lenses like the 55mm f2.2 (and f2) auto Takumar, the 85mm f1.8 auto Takumar, the 105mm f2.8 Auto Takumar and preset and the same for the early 135s are easily amongst my favorites.

And I was surprised at how many of them had a Sonnar design or a derivative of that optical formula till I looked at this page http://www.klassik-cameras.de/Pentax_Takumar_e.html.

I feel a little sheepish - people keep coming up with lenses I already have and to extent take for granted. But the grass is always greener I suppose. BTW some very nice photos in your set.
The site you linked has been my main reference for Takumars!
Pentax was pushing the development of SLRs in the 50s, no other maker produced as many interesting SLR lenses that early on.
I believe that pretty much any preset, that is early, short tele may fit your request, could be "no names", with a bit of luck one may find such for very little money. E.g. I have a preset Tele Kominar f3.5/135mm and a "Berolina" f2.8/135mm that should, haven't use much either of them though and can't share good samples, here is what I have:

the Berolina 2.8/135

Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr

the Tele Kominar 3.5/135

city bloom
by andreas, on Flickr
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Old 12-05-2017   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
The site you linked has been my main reference for Takumars!
Pentax was pushing the development of SLRs in the 50s, no other maker produced as many interesting SLR lenses that early on.
I believe that pretty much any preset, that is early short tele may fit your request, could be "no names", with a bit of luck one may find such for very little money. E.g. I have a preset Tele Kominar f3.5/135mm and a "Berolina" f2.8/135mm that should, haven't use much either of them though and can't share good samples, here is what I have:

the Berolina 2.8/135
Untitled
by andreas, on Flickr

the Tele Kominar 3.5/135
city bloom
by andreas, on Flickr
Yes, I must admit recently I too have been buying some old lenses - mainly 135mm lenses sold with the names of long defunct lens marques (mostly ones i have never heard of) on their name plate. I was aware that some of these would be lenses actually made by 1st or second tier lens makers and put out there to be sold by other companies. I was also aware that some would be Sonnars - one of my favourite older lens types for image quality and nice bokeh. And this offered promise.

A few I purchased recently were a 135mm f3.5 "Force" lens in LTM mount which looks pretty well identical to the Super Acall 135mm. These are true 135mm long focus lenses not telefphoto lenses in the technical sense. My research suggests this lens was sold under at least half a dozen names.

Another I picked up was also a 135mm f3.5, this time in M42 mount and with preset diaphragm. Its name is Titar but apparently was according to my research sold under perhaps a dozen other names. It is solidly built and a few quick shots so far look hopeful.

A third I bought (for $5) is marked 35mm f2.8 with the name Mosler. It turns out Mosler is (or was) a USA based security company and this a lens appears to have been bought in from some company to fit into one of their security TV cameras. Its build quality looks reasonably good (in line with other 2nd tier makers of the time) and the few shots I have taken with it again look promising. When I can find them, particularly if I can pick them up cheaply I will continue to buy them and try them out as I get the chance.
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Old 12-07-2017   #56
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I've just posted this in another thread, but this shows something of the beautiful bokeh of the Pentax 67 105/2.4.
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Scan-140608-0009 by Mr Chombee, on Flickr
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Old 12-13-2017   #57
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This is one of my own images shot with a Helios 58mm f2 (optically a copy of a pre war Zeiss Biogon lens). I have to say that I love the rendering of these old Sonnar lenses - both the bokeh which is acceptably soft and billowy and the subtle gradations in tone which I think is the real mark of many Sonnars. I grant you that this is not especially sharp however, though I put that down to me more than the lens. Never the less, a lens perfect for portraits of old ladies and young cats.

EDIT: See my correction above - actually a Jupiter 8. My old fart brain fade........


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Old 12-13-2017   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
The Zeiss Biotar f1.5/75mm creates an interesting "vortex" at mid distance (tough to focus at mid). It's quite an interesting lens for bokeh need.
vikcolorwhistlelake 2 by Adnan, on Flickr

vikcolorwhistlelake 1 by Adnan, on Flickr

Closer it's more dreamy and easier to focus.
Vik by Adnan, on Flickr
Those Biotar shots are fantastic!
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Old 12-13-2017   #59
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Nikon 55mm f1.2 1970's version. On Fuji XT1

[IMG]PRT12314 by Paul Rybolt, on Flickr[/IMG]

50mm f2 Septon Voigtlander with some element separation. Also on the Fuji.

[IMG]PRT12323 by Paul Rybolt, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]PRT12327 by Paul Rybolt, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 12-13-2017   #60
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If you want the Trioplan bubble bokeh without the Trioplan price try to find a Tomioka (Rikenon, Chinon, Revue) 55mm f1.4 lens. It's very close to the Trioplan. I just sold a Rikenon in excellent condition for $89.
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Old 12-13-2017   #61
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Summarit 1.5. Will get swirly if background is busy. otherwise flows smoothly.

Summilux ASPH is great. Way better than Summicron or APO Summicron.

My last generation 50 2.8 Elmar M are good, but 2.8 is not as good as 1.4.
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Old 12-13-2017   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
This is one of my own images shot with a Helios 58mm f2 (optically a copy of a prewar Zeiss Biogon lens). I have to say that I love the rendering of these old Sonnar lenses - both the bokeh which is acceptably soft and billowy and the subtle gradations in tone which I think is the real mark of many Sonnars. I grant you that this is not especially sharp however, though I put that down to me more than the lens. Never the less, a lens perfect for portraits of old ladies and young cats.
Copy of the Zeiss Biotar, and the Biotar is basically a double-Gauss like a Planar. Yes there are differences, but they are relatively similar schemes. The Biogon was another, mostly used for wide angles scheme.

The Soviet copy of the Sonnar is Jupiter in its varieties:

J-3 = 50/1.5
J-8 = 50/2.0
J-9 = 85/2.0
J-6 = 180/2.8
J-11 = 135/4
J-36 = 250/3.5
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Old 12-13-2017   #63
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Can't forget the early Nikkor-P 105mm f2.5 when it used the sonnar optical formula.




I would also pass the Nikkor 50mm f1.4 for the much more interesting Nikkor-S 5.8cm f1.4.




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Old 12-13-2017   #64
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I still love the olympus 38mm 1,8 for halfframe at Fullframe Sony A7.
Though i wish there would be a few mm more glas to get more Fullframe area.
Anyway dont have to add Vignetting.



and i love the mfd of 35cm only, with rangefinder lens its mostly to big.
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Old 12-13-2017   #65
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Strangefinder, how do you use that lens on full frame? Sony mirrorless?
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Old 12-13-2017   #66
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I have to look through my archives for examples, but the Nikon 85/1.4 AI(s) is the queen of bokeh; the 84/1.4 AFD being the king.
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Old 12-13-2017   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixcinater View Post
Copy of the Zeiss Biotar, and the Biotar is basically a double-Gauss like a Planar. Yes there are differences, but they are relatively similar schemes. The Biogon was another, mostly used for wide angles scheme.

The Soviet copy of the Sonnar is Jupiter in its varieties:

J-3 = 50/1.5
J-8 = 50/2.0
J-9 = 85/2.0
J-6 = 180/2.8
J-11 = 135/4
J-36 = 250/3.5
You are right of course. I misspoke - call it brain fade (courtesy of a late night posting). It was actually shot I think with another Soviet lens the Jupiter 8 50mm f2 as you suggested. My bad as the kids say on the internet.
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Old 12-13-2017   #68
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Grab a couple old folding cameras, one with a meniscus, the other with a rapid rectilinear lens. They can be amazingly sharp but wide open, the whole world changes.
My 1923 Kodak meniscus lens can give me results that just about match my Fujinon W CM with EBC coating, when it is stopped down. Wider than about f/11 it is a completely different ballgame.
So, take those lenses off their respective cameras, stick them on old salvaged zooms and go have fun.

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Old 12-13-2017   #69
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Jupiter-8 on digital:
under the pear tree by X. Yang, 於 Flickr


無標題 by X. Yang, 於 Flickr

Jupiter-8 on film:
Scan-161015-0026-1 by X. Yang, 於 Flickr


Bell&Howell Super Comat 25mm f/1.9. There are a bunch of those Ernostar type cine lenses for 16mm cine cameras, almost all are 25mm f/1.9 lenses. They got rather expensive when M4/3 cameras started to becoming popular (around 2012-13). They give swirly images, sometimes a little soap bubble light blob as well.

無標題 by X. Yang, 於 Flickr

it gets dark earlier now.. by X. Yang, 於 Flickr
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Old 12-13-2017   #70
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Not strictly bokeh, more bokeh from a Nikkor OC 35mm f2 with the help of a snow streaked 2002 Honda CRV side window.



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Old 12-13-2017   #71
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All of these examples are wide open.

Nikkor 85/2:



Beat-up Summar that I resurrected with cerium oxide polishing:



And just to make things interesting, an Ilford Craftsman box camera (which I'm sure could be adapted somehow):

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Old 03-21-2018   #72
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Lenses that I have that have very smooth bokeh include:

OM Zuiko 100mm f2.0
OM Zuiko 90 mm f2.0 macro
Nikon 105 f2.0 DC
OM Zuiko 50mm f2.0 macro
Tamron SP 80-200 f2.8

Here is an obligatory cat (kitten) photo taken with either the 90mm Zuiko macro or the 105 Nikon DC

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