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SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral75 View Post
May be they just have a batch of a few hundreds of NOS Kiev 19M to revamp and sell on Kickstarter?
By jove I think you're on to something!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #42
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[quote=rbiemer;2769001
I am a bit more interested in the new lenses they talk about and will have to do some searching about those.

Rob[/QUOTE]
The Meyer Optik, 50mm f2.9 Trioplan is available in several mounts from the Meyer Optik Gorlitz site for the "special discount" price of of only 999.00 Euros.
They show the Lydith 30mm f3.5 for the "special" price of only 1,199.00 Euros.

I found it a search under 'Meyer Optik'.
New or not, if your purpose is to take pictures then this whole enterprise is massively overpriced with a sales pitch that is a large bucket of fertilizer.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
The Meyer Optik, 50mm f2.9 Trioplan is available in several mounts from the Meyer Optik Gorlitz site for the "special discount" price of of only 999.00 Euros.
They show the Lydith 30mm f3.5 for the "special" price of only 1,199.00 Euros.

I found it a search under 'Meyer Optik'.
New or not, if your purpose is to take pictures then this whole enterprise is massively overpriced with a sales pitch that is a large bucket of fertilizer.
So, a bit more than current Zeiss lenses and a bit (or a lot) less than current Leica lenses.

Not terrible, maybe. I don't have any opinion about the actual lenses but do have an interest. Probably more so for the "new" Tessar but that 30mm is an uncommon length.

And, fair enough, the actual product may well be crap. But, I think, not worth being dismissed out of hand.

As to the "reuse" of old brand names, that has been a mixed bag; pretty sure we all can think of at least one old German brand that has turned out pretty well in its resurrection...(thank you, Mr. Kobayashi! )

Rob
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #44
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I can't help but feel that the Ihagee name is being dragged through mud....
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
I can't help but feel that the Ihagee name is being dragged through mud....
I can't help but feel that no-one under the age of 60 has heard of the name Ihagee.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #46
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in other words, a pricy piece of crap.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I can't help but feel that no-one under the age of 60 has heard of the name Ihagee.
And I'm sure not many over the age of 60 even knows what Ihagee means
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #48
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They should have picked a better fake name, like Kraptoflex.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #49
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #50
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The following was just posted by Ihagee / Creator in the Comments section of the Kickstarter project:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihagee
the inside of the camera is designed by our Ukrainian colleagues and made with the tools from the Arsenal factory. We are changing the materials used so that the reliability is higher. We have also done some changes to the shutter mechanism. The body is build with tools from the Kiev 19M. It would be impossible to produce new tools for those parts as this is too costly for the small quantities. Therefore the camera looks similar.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #51
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OK, I can shoot this $1500 meterless camera that takes Nikon lenses, or I can keep my Canon FTb, Nikkormat, and Nikon n8008s, all of which I paid less than $100 for. The Nikons allow me to shoot AI and non AI Nikon lenses, as well as Leica lenses with an inexpensive adapter, and the FTb will shoot Canon FD and FL lenses, Canon R lenses, and even Nikon and Leica R lenses with simple adapter (s).

What should I do?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #52
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Personally, I like Kraptoflex very much
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #53
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some of these kickstarters are really getting ridiculous.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihagee
the inside of the camera is designed by our Ukrainian colleagues and made with the tools from the Arsenal factory. We are changing the materials used so that the reliability is higher. We have also done some changes to the shutter mechanism. The body is build with tools from the Kiev 19M. It would be impossible to produce new tools for those parts as this is too costly for the small quantities. Therefore the camera looks similar.
And yet the Reflex campaign can bring to market an all new, modular 35mm SLR with a shutter that goes to 1/4000 sec, spot and avg metering, built in flash and LED light for $200 less.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
And yet the Reflex campaign can bring to market an all new, modular 35mm SLR with a shutter that goes to 1/4000 sec, spot and avg metering, built in flash and LED light for $200 less.
The "bring to market" part of the Reflex project is not done yet...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral75 View Post
The "bring to market" part of the Reflex project is not done yet...
My impression is that most creators of KS camera or film related projects are very enthusiastic but massively underestimate the money and time needed to follow through on their ideas.

This Elbaflex thing feels different though. there is more than a whiff of outright scam, trying to sell a $250 camera body for $500. I dunno, perhaps I'm just an old coot, way out of touch with the effects of price inflation on equipment. And then of course, the limited market will prevent the economy of scale needed to sell at a reasonable price.

I'm not into the Nikon system but if I came upon a great bargain on a couple of manual focus Nikkors and wanted a body to use them on then I'd look for a Nikkormat FT3 or maybe an FM2n body, that would be a no brainer.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #57
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I see that the Kickstarter campaign is based in Atlanta, GA: Could it be someone formerly associated with Kiev USA? If so, they ought to have a pretty good idea of what they're getting themselves into. Probably best if the number of backers remains smallish unless they've secured a stock of decent 19Ms at a fixed price.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral75 View Post
The "bring to market" part of the Reflex project is not done yet...
Exactly. My unscientific theory suggests this Elbaflex thing is a lot more likely to see the light of day than the Reflex ever will.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #59
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After seeing the prices on the Kick Starter page, and reading through the specs, I've decided it's not worth getting. I've got plenty of Nikons to keep me happy for several years.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by css9450 View Post
Exactly. My unscientific theory suggests this Elbaflex thing is a lot more likely to see the light of day than the Reflex ever will.
Of course the Ihagee Elbaflex will see the light: there are experienced people behind it, the same people that launched the Meyer-Optik Görlitz, Oprema Jena and Emil Busch Glaukar Anastigmat lenses on Kickstarter and Indiegogo (sometime the same product on both successively).

For these guys, the crowdfunding platforms are a marketing tool more than a financing tool, hence the very low goal for this campaign: $50,000.

An article I have found interesting:

https://www.timgreyhavens.com/single...ded-Photo-Gear
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #61
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Well, looks like at least some backers are catching on. Their KS page shows they lost 3 backers overnight.
I'm following this thing out of morbid curiosity.
Plus I have a really bad cold and am stuck at home.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farlymac View Post
After seeing the prices on the Kick Starter page, and reading through the specs, I've decided it's not worth getting. I've got plenty of Nikons to keep me happy for several years.
I saw this and it appeared interesting until I got to the part of the price point! OMG! I can get a couple of CLA'd original Nikon Fs with lenses for far less!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #63
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You are not the only ones to think so.

After 24 hours they had raised a bit more than $32,000 and sold 52 cameras and 5 lenses.

After almost one week they are down to $27,200 raised and 47 cameras and 2 lenses sold.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #64
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http://emulsive.org/articles/ihagee-...h-stefan-immes


Quote from the article:
EM: UNDERSTOOD. SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU, YOU’RE USING THE EXTERNAL SHELL FOR THE KIEV 19M BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE ACCESS TO TOOLING AND CAN CREATE THEM BRAND NEW…AND WE’RE ESSENTIALLY SEEING A NEW CAMERA INSIDE? HAS THERE BEEN ANY TEMPTATION TO REACH FOR THE PARTS BIN?
SI: Hahaha, no no, no parts bin. The camera and parts are new; and the design (internal and external) has been refined

(sorry about the all caps but the page I've linked to has the interviewers questions in bold, larger text that the answers and this was how this part "copy and paste" ed.)

Rob
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbiemer View Post
http://emulsive.org/articles/ihagee-...h-stefan-immes


Quote from the article:
EM: UNDERSTOOD. SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU, YOU’RE USING THE EXTERNAL SHELL FOR THE KIEV 19M BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE ACCESS TO TOOLING AND CAN CREATE THEM BRAND NEW…AND WE’RE ESSENTIALLY SEEING A NEW CAMERA INSIDE? HAS THERE BEEN ANY TEMPTATION TO REACH FOR THE PARTS BIN?
SI: Hahaha, no no, no parts bin. The camera and parts are new; and the design (internal and external) has been refined

(sorry about the all caps but the page I've linked to has the interviewers questions in bold, larger text that the answers and this was how this part "copy and paste" ed.)

Rob
I guess this depends on what the meaning of 'new' is. I'm saying to them it means unused parts... I'm not buying newly designed parts for a minute. If that was the case, we would have a shutter with modern speed ranges, a light meter etc etc.
They've pretty much hollowed out the old camera with left over bits. I mean new parts.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #66
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I completely agree with Huss. Moreover, they used an old Kiev 19M for the photos of the press kit: they changed the grip, replaced the leatherette and photoshopped the brand and model names... with an exception. They have therefore no prototype of their Ihagee Ibaflex to show, which is against Kickstarter rules.

A proof of the above? This is one of the photos from the press kit:

Dropbox - Ihagee Press Kit

Another link

Not only are the 'Ihagee' and 'Elbaflex' logos obviously photoshopped (this is even more obvious on the original picture opened in a photo editing software)...



...but they forgot to photoshop the '19M' (from Kiev 19M) out of the reflection!!!

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #67
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Pretty awesome
Thanks for the hint.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral75 View Post
...but they forgot to photoshop the '19M' (from Kiev 19M) out of the reflection!!!
Amazing! Hahaha
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #69
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Kleptoflex

"Cause you be gittin' ripped off!

They might have German and Ukrainian engineers working on it (doubtful) but they shouldn't have farmed out the Photoshop to the Chinese.....
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #70
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Being aware that their Kickstarter campaign is stalling, net SE just improved their offer in two different directions, in addition to redoubling of marketing efforts (see the link posted by rbiemer and similar articles on the web, written "after a conversation with Stefan Immes" who, by the way, is the CEO of net SE):

1. Two other mounts, M42 and Pentax K, will be available in addition to the standard Nikon F mount of the Kiev 19B.

2. Two versions of the camera will be available. The current one becomes Elbaflex Prime with a warranty extended to five years and a stripped version named Elbaflex Base will be proposed at $299.

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #71
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cant help it but reading stuff like this makes me sceptical of anything-Kickstarter.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistral75 View Post
Being aware that their Kickstarter campaign is stalling, net SE just improved their offer in two different directions, in addition to redoubling of marketing efforts (see the link posted by rbiemer and similar articles on the web, written "after a conversation with Stefan Immes" who, by the way, is the CEO of net SE):

1. Two other mounts, M42 and Pentax K, will be available in addition to the standard Nikon F mount of the Kiev 19B.

2. Two versions of the camera will be available. The current one becomes Elbaflex Prime with a warranty extended to five years and a stripped version named Elbaflex Base will be proposed at $299.

The different warranty levels - that's pretty funny. And shows they have no confidence in the made in Ukraine mfg, even though it is now 'improved with new parts' and they touted how great the quality is.
The plot is starting to unravel.

FYI w/ re. to the leather options that are not available on the base camera. Leather covers from aki-ashahi/hugo studio etc cost about $25. And that is to the consumer, not wholesale. The leatherette is maybe $5 less.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #73
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7 days to go and they barely have passed the half way mark of their pledge funding.
I really hope they don't make it, and normally I would not wish this on someone but I feel that there is nothing honest about this campaign.
They have just obtained old stock Kiev 19Ms and are trying to pass them off at a ridiculous mark up to well meaning people who would be taken advantage of.

"Ihagee" claims new parts, new design, new production but mysteriously they do not show any photographs of any of that. Pretty much because all the new parts are are the name stickers, the wood grip, and the leatherette covers.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
7 days to go and they barely have passed the half way mark of their pledge funding. I really hope they don't make it, and normally I would not wish this on someone but I feel that there is nothing honest about this campaign. They have just obtained old stock Kiev 19Ms and are trying to pass them off at a ridiculous mark up to well meaning people who would be taken advantage of.
Of the 58 current Elbaflex backers, only 43 are being fleeced for a camera. That's down from 47 when I checked a few days ago. Still, $25,000+ buys a lot of stickers and grips, so maybe they'll fulfill the orders anyway. What else are they going to do with a big box on NOS Kiev 19Ms?

Although the Reflex has passed its goal, the number of backers has gone down over the past week too, so it will be interesting to see where they finally end up.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
7 days to go and they barely have passed the half way mark of their pledge funding.
I really hope they don't make it, and normally I would not wish this on someone but I feel that there is nothing honest about this campaign.
They have just obtained old stock Kiev 19Ms and are trying to pass them off at a ridiculous mark up to well meaning people who would be taken advantage of.

"Ihagee" claims new parts, new design, new production but mysteriously they do not show any photographs of any of that. Pretty much because all the new parts are are the name stickers, the wood grip, and the leatherette covers.
Dear Huss,

"If God did not want them sheared he would not have made them sheep," Calvera in the "The Magnificent Seven."

It's a movie from 1960 but no less true today.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Murphy View Post
Dear Huss,

"If God did not want them sheared he would not have made them sheep," Calvera in the "The Magnificent Seven."

It's a movie from 1960 but no less true today.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA

Dear Tim

Excellent quote!


Best regards
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post

Although the Reflex has passed its goal, the number of backers has gone down over the past week too, so it will be interesting to see where they finally end up.

Yeh I've been watching that, hoping that they would meet their stretch goal of 150,000 UK as I want a new Minolta mount camera. But it seems unlikely as it has stalled for days now. It peaked a week ago at $184, 515 (I took note!) and now is $180,324.
At least they passed their initial goal by almost $50,000 but it still will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #78
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The more I think about this... Why would this 'new' Ihagee not have a built in light meter? Well, seeing that it seems that these guys have located a batch of new old stock Kiev 19Ms, the first question is why did this batch exist? The answer to that could be because they were defective models with non-working light meters.
So, take those, remove the non-working meters and claim that they intentionally do not have built in meters for that 'pure' experience. Sell at a huge mark up.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #79
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Well, I still think their stated plan would be a good one. BUT, after seeing what folks have been posting here and elsewhere, this just seems very cynical at best and dishonest at worst. I didn't back this -- frankly, I couldn't if I wanted to -- but was really hoping what they were proposing would actually happen. Ah, well.

Rob
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The more I think about this... Why would this 'new' Ihagee not have a built in light meter? Well, seeing that it seems that these guys have located a batch of new old stock Kiev 19Ms, the first question is why did this batch exist? The answer to that could be because they were defective models with non-working light meters.
So, take those, remove the non-working meters and claim that they intentionally do not have built in meters for that 'pure' experience. Sell at a huge mark up.
There was a dodgy, cadmium sulphide light meter in Kiev 19M, probably even less reliable today than it was thirty years ago. I think the people behind this revamping project (= net SE) preferred to seal up the battery compartments rather than to service the original meters or to replace them by modern, reliable ones.
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