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Cost of Lightroom
Old 06-08-2019   #1
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Cost of Lightroom

Am I the only RFF user balking at the subscription cost of Lightroom? USD 156/year! I am looking at alternatives...
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Old 06-08-2019   #2
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Look at Affinity- https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/
I tried it a while back and was very impressed. It had a few missing elements that stopped me from using it, but I need to revisit it soon.
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Old 06-08-2019   #3
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$120 a year sucks (in the USA)... but it is important to my photography, so....
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Old 06-08-2019   #4
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I'm still using LR 6.14 but I get Apple messages on restarts that tell me LR will not work on future editions of the operating system.

Fuji had (maybe still has) an offer of a free download of Luminar 3. I downloaded it and played with it but I'm too familiar with LR so I felt lost trying to use it. If LR stops working on my Mac in the future, I'll grit my teeth and subscribe.
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Old 06-08-2019   #5
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Could this be an alternative?


https://www.on1.com/
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Old 06-08-2019   #6
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I resisted the Lightroom subscription model for a long time, after previously using one of the non-subscription versions. I tried Affinity for a bit but did not get along with it. I was very tempted by Capture One. A couple of months ago I decided to return to Lightroom on a trial basis. It's even better than I remember (integrates with my phone for sharing on the go, can even review photos through the Apple TV app).

I can honestly say returning to Lightroom has made my photos better, plus it's very fast.
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Old 06-08-2019   #7
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Since my last computer crash I lost my Adobe photoshop. When discovering they want me to pay a monthly fee for something I would only use half a dozen times a year, they can forget it. Some of us who only use this tool as a hobby only need a few hours a year of use.
So I have gone totally black and white wet printing in the last year, no more color film and my digital is good enough for me. Their loss not mine, I refuse to pay an annual fee for small usage of anything.
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Old 06-08-2019   #8
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No, you're not alone, Peter!


I’ve balked at all subscription-based software purchases and have been holding the line with Lightroom 6.8 on MacOS Sierra for my image editing and DAM. The feature set is stunning and I'm very happy with all that's available to me with it.

That said, I’m happy to pay for software. I make my living as a developer and appreciate all the hard work that goes into creating and selling these tools. Adobe’s products provide deep and genuine value and they deserve to be paid for them. I oppose subscription-based models for a couple of reasons -

By my personal calculations, the subscription model is simply more expensive over time than the standalone one.

Adobe promises that we'll always have access to the latest features. However, some new features don’t provide enough value to warrant my desire to pay for them. The standalone model provides a choice as to how and on what I wish to spend I money. I strongly prefer that.

Adding new features also comes with the risk of introducing bugs. On top of that, take changes to the underlying OS software, which Adobe doesn’t control, into account and compatibility issues take on a new dimension.

As a result, ongoing maintenance is now an end-user problem. It forces customers to keep abreast of compatibility issues or risk time-consuming support calls and/or re-installs. What a pain!

I look to photography to spark joy in my life. Playing IT every few months to keep my system up and running doesn't fit very well into that. Having tools that just work is my strong preference.


Okay, that's all! <end of rant/>


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Old 06-08-2019   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Am I the only RFF user balking at the subscription cost of Lightroom? USD 156/year! I am looking at alternatives...
I have version 4 something and it works comparing to trashy and crashy v6, which I received with M-E.
Standalone versions are available on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adobe-Light...YAAOSw-Hxc-yL2
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Old 06-08-2019   #10
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Nope. Its a vital tool for my work, and honestly it is silly for people with thousands of dollars, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars, worth of camera gear to balk at the cost of software.


I have tried nearly everything out there. Affinity, On1, Luminar, Capture One. NONE came close to giving the image quality that Lightroom does, except for Luminar. Luminar is great, but very unintuitive to use. Its user interface is overly complex and it is SLOW compared to Lightroom.


What's wrong with the image quality on the others? Poor detail resolution and noise reduction/sharpening. Especially at high ISO speeds.


To me, my images are everything. I'm not compromising to save a few dollars.
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Old 06-08-2019   #11
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I could probably save the $10/month I spend on LR/PS by putting the flow restrictor back in my shower head, but some things are worth paying for.
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Old 06-08-2019   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
I'm not compromising to save a few dollars.
Nothing to do with money, everything to do with ideals. I'm not renting software, period.

LR6 / CS6 is just fine for me, even for editing commercial images.
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Old 06-08-2019   #13
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Nothing to do with money, everything to do with ideals. I'm not renting software, period.

LR6 / CS6 is just fine for me, even for editing commercial images.



Until you buy a new camera that your old version won't support. As for ideals, that's a silly thing to make a moral stand on and you know it. It IS about money; you're just not willing to admit it.
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Old 06-08-2019   #14
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I subscribe to the Adobe CC All Apps for $29.99/month (Price has increased to $52.99/month). I just view it as part of the "cost of doing business." I do use quite a few of the apps, not just the photo-related ones.

There is a Photo Plan for $9.99/month, which gives you LR, PS and 20gb of cloud storage.
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Old 06-08-2019   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
Nothing to do with money, everything to do with ideals. I'm not renting software, period.
.
What about what everyone spent on dinner last night? That meal was just “rented”.

If it cost $1 a year to “rent”, and the standalone perpetual license version cost $300, would you still be buying the standalone version instead of “renting” constantly improved versions for 200 years at a $100 savings?

If the answer is “no, I’d rent”, or any other scenario where the standalone option would cost someone more than the subscription model, then it actually is “about the money”.

I balked when they went to the subscription model because of my, cough, “ideals”, but went ahead and gave them my credit card number and signed onto the PS/LR CC plan. In hindsight this was one of the best decisions
I ever made, in this area. For me.
And as for the money involved, as others have said, in the overall scheme of how much we spend on all the things that cost us money, for the utility we can get out of this, if we use it a lot, and I do, it just isn’t that expensive.
The tank of gas I rented for my car yesterday was $60. Like many things, I’ll get over it.

And, yes, both PS and LR CC versions are both now at least a little nicer and more capable than the PS6 and LR6 I was using before. Not life or death better, but worth the money better. For me.
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You nailed it Chris!
Old 06-08-2019   #16
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You nailed it Chris!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Nope. Its a vital tool for my work, and honestly it is silly for people with thousands of dollars, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars, worth of camera gear to balk at the cost of software.


I have tried nearly everything out there. Affinity, On1, Luminar, Capture One. NONE came close to giving the image quality that Lightroom does, except for Luminar. Luminar is great, but very unintuitive to use. Its user interface is overly complex and it is SLOW compared to Lightroom.


What's wrong with the image quality on the others? Poor detail resolution and noise reduction/sharpening. Especially at high ISO speeds.


To me, my images are everything. I'm not compromising to save a few dollars.

Dear Chris,


At the urging of friends far more experienced and talented than myself I subscribed to CC with Lightroom and Photoshop and a couple of other things 4 years ago for $ 11.59 a month which includes tax here in PA.


I don't always even use it, as I have standalone PSP and Aftershot versions on my computers. But when I do the LAST thing I think about, is "Jeez, this costs too much".


Regards,


Tim Murphy


Harrisburg, PA
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Old 06-08-2019   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Until you buy a new camera that your old version won't support. As for ideals, that's a silly thing to make a moral stand on and you know it. It IS about money; you're just not willing to admit it.
Wrong, on both counts. I used an old version of LR for quite awhile with my D800 when it came out. Adobe DNG converter made the files usable.

I will not rent software. Full stop.
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Old 06-08-2019   #18
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And Larry, your "what-if" scenario is a pointless mental exercise. There are other implications of rented software than just cost. Just take for example the recent issue with a license for a certain effect or whatever it was getting terminated.

Adobe can shove it.
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Old 06-08-2019   #19
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The first message I received when accessing Adobe Japan was "Operating System update required to install Lightroom"

Here in Japan it seems that the price is JPY 12,963 per year tax in (approx USD 118.00 / year). I have to drill down to see if Adobe Japan supports the English version (previously for stand alone version, English was not supported).

Currently I run my image processing computers off-line on old OS to accommodate film scanners... no way that's going to change.

What new feature was added in the last 12 months that would justify real time application updates?
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Old 06-08-2019   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
And Larry, your "what-if" scenario is a pointless mental exercise. There are other implications of rented software than just cost. Just take for example the recent issue with a license for a certain effect or whatever it was getting terminated.

Adobe can shove it.
It wasn’t pointless, but it was a mental exercise.
But, I’m glad to encounter people who know what they want to do, and do it, regardless.

Meantime, Could you post a list of those “other implications” of rented software, besides cost? Sounds dire. I’d like to make sure there isn’t some damning consideration I have overlooked in my happy acquiescence to the world of software circa 2019.
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Old 06-08-2019   #21
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...I have gone totally black and white wet printing in the last year, no more color film and my digital is good enough for me. Their loss not mine, I refuse to pay an annual fee for small usage of anything.
That's an intelligent decision. I did something similar but it was more about getting (IMO) better prints w/ fiber enlargements vs scanned negs, and getting away from the unpleasantness of scanning, endlessly editing in PS, and dealing w/ ways to get things printed.

This is a typical Big Corporate way of doing business. When I encounter it, I walk. You have to or they kill you with a death of a thousand cuts, taking away this, adding that (but always at a higher price). It's why I stopped shopping at Walmart. No matter how good their prices are, they're a crummy company, and anything that can be done to not add to their riches I'm all for. It would be great if they went out of business, so every action helps.
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Old 06-08-2019   #22
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Could you post a list of those “other implications” of rented software
You don't own it. They could take it away at anytime. You have to be on the internet (at least sporadically) to use it. You have to continue upgrading either components or your OS if they cut off functionality to older workstations, which may cause other issues for you (see the many complaints about scanners not working on newer machines for instance) or maybe you just don't want to upgrade simply to appease Adobe. And as I mentioned, how about the filter or effect license that was suspended and you could get sued if you continue using it? These are just a few things off the top of my head. There's probably many more, maybe specific and not related to you, but still are important to others.

You do you though. I'm standing firm against this move and will not budge. Luckily I am mostly a one-man show with my audiovisual business so I can afford to not run the latest version as I don't need any cross-compatibility with others.

PS - I had CC for one year several years ago, when I did need it for a certain project I volunteered to head, provided at discount by my previous employer, because the teams doing video were all on CC. When CC ran out, I did not plan on upgrading. However, what ended up happening, is the CC / Adobe system completely immobilized my CS6 install. I was effectively held hostage. Luckily I am plenty computer-savvy and was able to correct this issue through a deep-dive into the software systems in Windows, getting rid of every trace of Adobe's software and then reinstalling CS6 from scratch. I'm still annoyed though as I lost a good number of custom Actions.
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Wow, what a shrewd move on your part
Old 06-08-2019   #23
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Wow, what a shrewd move on your part

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post

PS - I had CC for one year several years ago, when I did need it for a certain project I volunteered to head, provided at discount by my previous employer, because the teams doing video were all on CC. When CC ran out, I did not plan on upgrading. However, what ended up happening, is the CC / Adobe system completely immobilized my CS6 install. I was effectively held hostage. Luckily I am plenty computer-savvy and was able to correct this issue through a deep-dive into the software systems in Windows, getting rid of every trace of Adobe's software and then reinstalling CS6 from scratch. I'm still annoyed though as I lost a good number of custom Actions.
Dear Corran,

Way to go! You really showed Adobe who's boss! Hopefully, you're investing that $ 11.00 a month and putting it away to your retirement, or travel plans, or something nice?

Me, like so many others, will take our chances on the subscription. If it goes away it goes away. You already lost on the deal while most of us are ahead, but please stay strong and vigilant!

Regards,

Tim Murphy
Harrisburg, PA
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Old 06-08-2019   #24
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Google cloud storage is only tax-like software fee am willing to accept, as its constantly beneficial (having access to my files everywhere everytime). Can also end it one day and am not locked into any "ecosystem". With Adobe, it would not be the case and am definitely not buying their subscription.

Btw. Sony and Fuji users can currently buy perpetual Capture One license for 109USD (until their offer ends). https://www.captureone.com/en/store/pro-sony
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Old 06-08-2019   #25
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Here are Adobe products sold at B&H:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/P...0/N/3988161558

There are also quite a few apps available. Here is one by Google. Originally by Nik software but Goigle bought it. This app is free:

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-snapseed-1616444

Truth be known, I use CS4 and it works just fine for me. All of my digital cameras work just fine with CS4. i have an old Canon 20D and it still makes great photographs. I do have a few others and they all work just fine.

When you get down to the basics, two main features of Photoshop are layers and blending.

If I were to upgrde my computer, I think I would just buy Elements.
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Old 06-08-2019   #26
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Way to go Tim, your sardonic reply really showed me!

Good for you and others happily paying a monthly fee for software. Your money, your choice. Perhaps try having some comprehension that others may choose to not go down that road, for a variety of reasons.

Peace out.
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Get real
Old 06-08-2019   #27
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Get real

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
Way to go Tim, your sardonic reply really showed me!

Good for you and others happily paying a monthly fee for software. Your money, your choice. Perhaps try having some comprehension that others may choose to not go down that road, for a variety of reasons.

Peace out.
Dear Corran,

I'll agree that it's your money, your choice if you'll agree that the money you will not part with on a monthly basis amounts to a coffee and a doughnut?

Regards,

Tim Murphy
Harrisburg, PA
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Old 06-08-2019   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
Nope. Its a vital tool for my work, and honestly it is silly for people with thousands of dollars, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars, worth of camera gear to balk at the cost of software.


I have tried nearly everything out there. Affinity, On1, Luminar, Capture One. NONE came close to giving the image quality that Lightroom does, except for Luminar. Luminar is great, but very unintuitive to use. Its user interface is overly complex and it is SLOW compared to Lightroom.


What's wrong with the image quality on the others? Poor detail resolution and noise reduction/sharpening. Especially at high ISO speeds.


To me, my images are everything. I'm not compromising to save a few dollars.
Chris, you did't mention Aperture. Don't you like Aperture? I have Lightroom, but after trying it I went back to Aperture. It's so intuitive, and I can use it without frustration!
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Old 06-08-2019   #29
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Quote:
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Chris, you did't mention Aperture. Don't you like Aperture? I have Lightroom, but after trying it I went back to Aperture. It's so intuitive, and I can use it without frustration!
Guess Aperture is practically end of life, so its not considered anymore as an option.
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Old 06-08-2019   #30
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Guess Aperture is practically end of life, so its not considered anymore as an option.
Well, I have it alive and well on three computers.
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Old 06-08-2019   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
You don't own it. They could take it away at anytime. You have to be on the internet (at least sporadically) to use it. You have to continue upgrading either components or your OS if they cut off functionality to older workstations, which may cause other issues for you (see the many complaints about scanners not working on newer machines for instance) or maybe you just don't want to upgrade simply to appease Adobe. And as I mentioned, how about the filter or effect license that was suspended and you could get sued if you continue using it? These are just a few things off the top of my head. There's probably many more, maybe specific and not related to you, but still are important to others.

You do you though. I'm standing firm against this move and will not budge. Luckily I am mostly a one-man show with my audiovisual business so I can afford to not run the latest version as I don't need any cross-compatibility with others.

PS - I had CC for one year several years ago, when I did need it for a certain project I volunteered to head, provided at discount by my previous employer, because the teams doing video were all on CC. When CC ran out, I did not plan on upgrading. However, what ended up happening, is the CC / Adobe system completely immobilized my CS6 install. I was effectively held hostage. Luckily I am plenty computer-savvy and was able to correct this issue through a deep-dive into the software systems in Windows, getting rid of every trace of Adobe's software and then reinstalling CS6 from scratch. I'm still annoyed though as I lost a good number of custom Actions.

Corran,

I appreciate the answer. We probably disagree whether any of that is important in the overall scheme of things, or significantly different from the potential aggravating issues inherent with anything software or OS related, but that’s okay.
e.g. somebody mentioned Aperture. I owned that and liked it. It was perpetual (which turned out to mean “supported until Steve Jobs dies”, then we dumb it down) until it wasn’t. Doo doo happens. For any kind of computer related task, how many people are still using the first iteration of the first app they ever owned to do that task, whether it be word processing, file management or anything else? Everything gets replaced, and we pay to replace it, over and over again. We either pay them on our schedule, or theirs, but we pay. (At that point it is about the money again, ultimately.)

I understand your position, everybody’s different in what they need and how they like to do things. Pros and cons tip the scales differently for different people. As long as everybody is happy that’s all that matters, I wasn’t trying to move anyone out of their happy place, just mentioning what has worked out best for myself.
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Old 06-08-2019   #32
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Chris, you did't mention Aperture. Don't you like Aperture? I have Lightroom, but after trying it I went back to Aperture. It's so intuitive, and I can use it without frustration!



I tried it about ten years ago and image quality was far below that of Lightroom and it was slow and offered a lot less control over images. I know its been updated since then but its now discontinued and will not support a single camera I own.
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Old 06-09-2019   #33
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You could always try Darktable, which I'm quite happy with, although I have no frame of reference really, or RawTherapee, which can do even more. They're open source, free, and still being updated from time to time, although certainly not as frequently as Lightroom.
The times when open source stuff was only usable for total nerds are long gone.
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Old 06-09-2019   #34
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You’re not alone.
I tend to upgrade my software only when a new camera I get isn’t supported by my current software (so rarely). I actually think I’m not alone. Thom Hogan talks about “last camera syndrome”, but I think many people in this boat are also part of the “last software syndrome” group. Photographers who practice the craft “traditionally” in the modern sense (does that even make sense?) where thy take a photo, download images, process in dedicated software, and then print or upload are getting older and not buying new cameras because their current one is sufficient. The same is true for software. I was quite happy with LR5, but then I bought a new camera and it wasn’t supported.
I ended up getting the Fuji version of Capture One Pro when it was half price. I’ll keep it until I buy a new camera that isn’t supported again, which might be another 10 years. I’m really liking C1 Pro, it is very different to LR, but does the same thing.
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Old 06-09-2019   #35
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I’ll add that we use the full Adobe CC suite at work, it works fine unless I don’t VPN into the work network for a while, but I think that’s more how work has it set up than Adobe.
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Old 06-09-2019   #36
ColSebastianMoran
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$120/year for great software that is regularly updated (new cameras) and improved (texture, flat field)... I'm sticking with Lightroom/PS and the adobe photography subscription.

Also, FWIW, I'm not interested in the photos-in-cloud model.
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Old 06-09-2019   #37
Solinar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
I’ll add that we use the full Adobe CC suite at work, it works fine unless I don’t VPN into the work network for a while, but I think that’s more how work has it set up than Adobe.
Greetings everyone.

Does the above post mean that if I upgrade my current stand alone LR6 / Photoshop CS6 software to the CC Photography Plan, the new software must check in with the mother ship via an internet connection each and every time I use it in order for the software to work properly?

It's kind of scary if it does, because I often use my MacBook Pro in a off-line mode. If that's the case, I'll have to forego upgrading the current Mojave OS on my laptop to the soon arrive next gen Catalina OS.

My desktop is different story.

Thanks for posting this info.
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Old 06-09-2019   #38
joe bosak
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I use Silkypix, but then again I don't often do a lot of adjustments. It's comprehensive for what i need, I bought it for my x100t but it supports the various other makes and models i've had/have, and gets regularly patched with updates. There's a full version upgrade every couple of years. You get a 3 seat licence with version 9 pro: with 8 you got 2, same with 7. The old licences carry on working (with the old versions) too, if that matters. I think it only checks in with the server when you authenticate the licence, because you can authenticate licences offline too.
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Old 06-09-2019   #39
Dan Daniel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solinar View Post
Greetings everyone.

Does the above post mean that if I upgrade my current stand alone LR6 / Photoshop CS6 software to the CC Photography Plan, the new software must check in with the mother ship via an internet connection each and every time I use it in order for the software to work properly?

It's kind of scary if it does, because I often use my MacBook Pro in a off-line mode. If that's the case, I'll have to forego upgrading the current Mojave OS on my laptop to the soon arrive next gen Catalina OS.

My desktop is different story.

Thanks for posting this info.

No, it doesn't need to check in every time. I don't remember if it is every 30 days or 90 days or what, but Adobe does explain that you will need to get connected every now and then for the program to keep working, remain authorized. But no, the program does not become inoperable if you don't have an internet connection as a general rule.


Adobe explains this, but knowing the right language to use to ask the question is half the battle.
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Old 06-09-2019   #40
ruby.monkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Am I the only RFF user balking at the subscription cost of Lightroom? USD 156/year! I am looking at alternatives...
Use darktable instead.

I'm perfectly happy with LR CC at the moment; luckily, for those who aren't, there are a few good alternatives.
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