Why is the M6 so close in price to the M7?
Old 11-29-2015   #1
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,708
Why is the M6 so close in price to the M7?

Been researching this for a while now, and it seems that the going rate for an M7 is maybe $200-$300 more than an M6 (actual auction sales, not buy it now).
I'm a bit surprised. Not only is the M7 newer, but it is also made of brass vs zinc, and past 2885XXX has the MP finder.
Are the high used prices of MPs elevating those of the M6? i.e. prospective buyers really would want an MP but 'settle' for an M6, with the M7 not even on the radar?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2015   #2
aizan
Registered User
 
aizan's Avatar
 
aizan is online now
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Age: 37
Posts: 4,598
from my records, prices for m6 classics and m7s have been pretty stable.

also, the difference is more like $900-1000 (about $1300 vs. $2200).
__________________
Ugly Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2015   #3
kanzlr
Hexaneur
 
kanzlr's Avatar
 
kanzlr is offline
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vienna (Austria)
Age: 38
Posts: 1,002
the M6 TTL though is pretty much at level price wise to the M7
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2015   #4
ChrisLivsey
Registered User
 
ChrisLivsey's Avatar
 
ChrisLivsey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,066
UK wise M7 is around 15 to 20% more than an M6 (plain Jane version).

I would say the M6 is perhaps a little over valued, given the production of around 150,000 they are common and older and the M7 under valued as they are current production and "only" around 30,000 produced (so far).

The OP highlights some differences in favour of the M7 but the downsides are the electronic shutter (conservative Leica users are wary of electronics running things) the AE, not required (some photographers), inability to load IXMOO cassettes (I know later M6 the same but a baseplate change can fix that, the dreadful sandpaper covering ( I know some love it), the size, bigger & heavier, I know tiny amounts but they can affect the "feel".

Forums, ask for a model to start with a Leica, M6 is the default answer, how often do you see an M7 recommended first line?


The conclusion of the M6 being a poor man's MP may not be wide of the mark, it is probably regarded as more of the classic M camera and the M7 as a dangerous high tech alternative !!
__________________
Fishing for shadows in a pool.
Louis Macneice

http://www.flickr.com/photos/red_eyes_man/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #5
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
Hi,

I'll expand that if I may; most technicians don't like touching electronics. So when they fail the camera dies*. Leica will, in my experience, repair them but at a price.

On the other hand, purely mechanical ones go on and on for ever; if they are looked after and not neglected too much.

Regards, David

* A technician told me it costs as much to take it apart and then put it all back together again with a new part or else with the old useless part. But no one will pay that much to get a dead camera back with a death certificate...
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #6
ian_watts
Ian Watts
 
ian_watts is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
I would say the M6 is perhaps a little over valued, given the production of around 150,000 they are common and older and the M7 under valued as they are current production and "only" around 30,000 produced (so far).

The OP highlights some differences in favour of the M7 but the downsides are the electronic shutter (conservative Leica users are wary of electronics running things) the AE, not required (some photographers), inability to load IXMOO cassettes (I know later M6 the same but a baseplate change can fix that, the dreadful sandpaper covering ( I know some love it), the size, bigger & heavier, I know tiny amounts but they can affect the "feel".
Yes, I think this is a good analysis (one minor pedantic point of correction: the M7 has never had the MP sandpaper covering, it has always had the standard "M6" type 'leather'). Personally, I think it is the dependence upon batteries that may be the most significant differentiator for today's typical film camera buyer (anyone who has owned an M7 knows that the batteries are tiny and last for many dozens of film rolls but, nonetheless, the M7 is battery dependent). Those for whom batteries are generally a non-issue have already migrated to the digital bodies (largely without looking back) whereas those committed to film tend, I think, to gravitate more to the mechanical. As you say this has tended towards an apparent overvaluation of the M6 and undervaluation of the M7. It's interesting because IMO the M7 is easily the best value used camera around at the moment. 1250 seems to be the going rate for one in decent nick and I think that is a lot of camera for the money.
__________________
Tumblr // Flickr // Instagram // ianwatts.co.uk
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #7
Austerby
Registered User
 
Austerby's Avatar
 
Austerby is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fircombe
Posts: 1,066
In 2007 sold my M6ttl to buy an M7. I'd paid about 550 for it and it went for around 600 a few months later. I paid 1200 for the M7, which I sold in 2010 for 1300 before buying my M8.

This suggests remarkable price stability for the M7 with increasing value for the M6ttl.

I paid 1800 for the M8, which is now possible worth 1000?

Clearly, I should have bought more M6ttls and held onto them
__________________
Austerby
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #8
Dralowid
Michael
 
Dralowid's Avatar
 
Dralowid is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,612
Hmmm, this thread made me think...people talk more often about lens prices than the cost of bodies.

Just checked, new in 2000 my M6ttl set me back 1127.66 plus 197.34 Vat = 1325

What is it worth now? Around 800 - 1000?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #9
FrankS
Registered User
 
FrankS's Avatar
 
FrankS is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada, eh.
Age: 62
Posts: 19,391
The m6 is a real mechanical camera, the kind that Leica built its reputation on over the years.
__________________
my little website: http://frankfoto.jimdo.com/

photography makes me happy
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #10
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,997
market price is based on: supply. demand.

as always.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #11
ian_watts
Ian Watts
 
ian_watts is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Just checked, new in 2000 my M6ttl set me back 1127.66 plus 197.34 Vat = 1325

What is it worth now? Around 800 - 1000?
True, but I suppose you also have to compare with the current new cost of a metered Leica film body (around 3,500).
__________________
Tumblr // Flickr // Instagram // ianwatts.co.uk
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #12
photomoof
Fischli & Weiss Sculpture
 
photomoof's Avatar
 
photomoof is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankS View Post
The m6 is a real mechanical camera, the kind that Leica built its reputation on over the years.
I could not see into the future (M8), but when I was first shown the M7, I remember saying something like, "nice but I want a real Leica."

One could own an M6 without ever contaminating it with a battery.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #13
ChrisLivsey
Registered User
 
ChrisLivsey's Avatar
 
ChrisLivsey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian_watts View Post
(one minor pedantic point of correction: the M7 has never had the MP sandpaper covering, it has always had the standard "M6" type 'leather').
Thanks for the correction, I had assumed, as dangerous as ever, they were the same, which rises the question of why they ruin (IMHO) the MP with that covering?
I also forgot the M7 has the DX reader, now whether that goes in the plus or minus camp is open to question. (Something else to fail tough, and I note it does cause trouble occasionally).

I wonder about the ratio of new bodies sold M7:MP:M-A now?
__________________
Fishing for shadows in a pool.
Louis Macneice

http://www.flickr.com/photos/red_eyes_man/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #14
ChrisLivsey
Registered User
 
ChrisLivsey's Avatar
 
ChrisLivsey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
market price is based on: supply. demand.

as always.
Indeed but the interesting thing is to dissect that market valuation.
On the supply side, as I said above 150,000 M6 v 30,000 M7 unless there is an imbalance in sales into the market, and I usually see more M6 available than M7, it must be the demand side leading pricing. Note the MP as a more direct competitor to the S/H M6, being current production, does not suffer that same level of discount to new as the M7 does and does match more closely the M6 spec.
Less (electronics) are apparently valued higher than more (electronics) by the market.
Leica appear to have seen that as well with the M-A offering and not making an M7 with built in MOT
__________________
Fishing for shadows in a pool.
Louis Macneice

http://www.flickr.com/photos/red_eyes_man/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #15
mfogiel
Registered User
 
mfogiel's Avatar
 
mfogiel is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Monaco
Posts: 4,658
I think that the simplest explanation is that people who want to shoot film are looking for a hassle free mechanical body which will outlast them, while many M7 owners have become "ex owners" in switching to digital cameras - Leicas or otherwise.
Personally I find M7 to be an excellent value - not as good as Zeiss Ikon, but the flip side is, it has various VF's and can still be easily repaired ( albeit for a price...). All in all, I don't complain about the going rate of M7's, which you can see below:

ADRENALINE-TEAM by marek fogiel, on Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #16
FrankS
Registered User
 
FrankS's Avatar
 
FrankS is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada, eh.
Age: 62
Posts: 19,391
I do have an electronic RF camera like an M7, but it's a Konica Hexar RF.
__________________
my little website: http://frankfoto.jimdo.com/

photography makes me happy
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #17
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 71
Posts: 2,539
Because they have the same parents.
__________________
I make photographs as a return ticket to a moment otherwise gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #18
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,248
I feel ide trade my M8 for a M6 Titanium finish... They just look great..

The M7 is basically the same look (aside from speed dial) but... Still the M6 has a certain allure I think the M7 has yet to grow into. (Just off my experience reading here)

Both appear like great cameras from my distant view!
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #19
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,124
I have owned an M6, an M6TTL, an M7 and a ZI.

I kept the ZI. The layout just made a lot more sense.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #20
Robert Lai
Registered User
 
Robert Lai is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,637
I've had a lot of different 35mm cameras, but the M7 remains my favorite. For actual picture taking, it is the most versatile and quick to use. It has flash modes that no other film M has, even the M6TTL: e.g. high speed synch. And yes, I do use these flash modes with the appropriate dedicated Metz flash.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #21
FrankS
Registered User
 
FrankS's Avatar
 
FrankS is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada, eh.
Age: 62
Posts: 19,391
Flash? Pffft!


(Just kidding. Sort of.)

__________________
my little website: http://frankfoto.jimdo.com/

photography makes me happy
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-30-2015   #22
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankS View Post
Flash? Pffft!


(Just kidding. Sort of.)

I would never use flash, apart from the times when I do.


Leica M3, Summicron 50mm V1, SF24D flash, Kodak BW400CN








  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2015   #23
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
SNIP ...the M7 has the DX reader, now whether that goes in the plus or minus camp is open to question...
Hi,

Just curious, has it the full 12 contacts, meaning two rows of 6 or what?

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2015   #24
alphonse2501
Registered User
 
alphonse2501's Avatar
 
alphonse2501 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Posts: 154
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DX_encoding

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ode_reader.jpg
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2015   #25
MCTuomey
Registered User
 
MCTuomey's Avatar
 
MCTuomey is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: U.S.
Age: 65
Posts: 3,309
Huss, nice use of flash there, nothing that screams on-camera flat light bomb.

On topic: I had an M7, fancied in turn a Wetzlar M6 and then an M6ttl, and sold the M7 to fund the Wetzlar. Now have only the M6ttl. I miss the M7 - it is a shooter's camera. Using exposure lock and AE, it shoots fast and meters well. Great for long exposures and for shooting fast glass in the big bright.
__________________
--Mike

My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2015   #26
phatnev
Registered User
 
phatnev is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 211
There's one on FM right now for $1550 with a .85 VF.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 19:17.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.