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DXO One + One panoramic camera
Old 11-28-2019   #1
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DXO One + One panoramic camera

For digital panoramic phots I typically use my A7RII with the square framing to get a 3:1 AR (or 2:1 or 1:1) with wide angle lenses. With my Tamron 17-28 I get almost exactly the same horizontal FOV as the XPAN with the 30 and 45mm lenses. I can go much wider with the Voitlander 12mm. Sigma and Fuji MF digital have built in panoramic AR modes.

I wanted to see if I could get back to any easy to use digital setup that gives more of a Horizon/Noblex/rotating lens type look to panoramics but without taking 2 or 3 shots with the same camera due to the differences in timing between the shots and the less spontaneous nature of shooting that way. Years ago I had a 3 Coolpix A setup for this but it was somewhat difficult to use due to trying to sync the three bodies settings/focus and having to remove the cameras from the mounts to charge batteries and to download the photos.

The DXO One in standalone mode is fairly flexible. I figured two of these could make an interesting and very small panoramic camera.

This is my first real try with 3d design software:










It is small. About 2/3s the width of a Barnack and a little taller and deeper.



Currently I have a 40 degree angle between the cameras. The horizontal FOV of each camera is about 58 degrees. I think I have around a 100 degree horizontal FOV right now. Shooting today all of the shots blended fine. I might push it out to 45 degrees between the bodies, when I did a couple of tests at 50 degrees they weren't blending in LR.

As far as the camera setup goes I have them set in Aperture Priority mode at f4. Hyperfocal focus (should be from about 5' to infinity), minimum shutter speed of 1/25th and ISO locked at 100. You can only change these settings when connected to an iphone so I wanted something that would be fairly flexible. Setup this way I basically hold the camera like binoculars, frame and press both shutter buttons together. Lightroom blends the potentially differing exposures between the shots well.

These are my first test shots...























The file management/blending was easy in Lightroom. I just bulk rename the DNG files from each camera to add Left or Right to the files and import them all into Lightroom. Sort the files by capture time (the clocks are synced) and the panoramic pairs are lined up. I just group all the pairs and then blend them in lightroom. Took maybe 10 minutes to do all these shots and I don't have to remove the cameras from the mount to get the pictures or to charge the batteries. I can even shoot with an external battery connected to them for many more shots.

Next version of the camera should be able to loose a little height as the base is thicker than it needs to be. I'll also get rid of the sharp pointed corners and get the cameras a little more secure in there.

I also have a three camera rig designed (should be about 140 degree horizontal FOV) but I haven't printed it yet. Want to work out a better shutter release for three cameras first and keep tweaking the 2 camera design at this point.

Shawn
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Old 11-28-2019   #2
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Couple of more...





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Old 11-29-2019   #3
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Pretty slick idea and execution, Shawn! Looks like it works very well.
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Old 11-29-2019   #4
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Caution: I plugged my DXO-One into my iPhone with the DXO app. Screen said, "Updating the camera." Turned it into a paperweight.

Meanwhile, your rig looks very nice.
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Old 11-29-2019   #5
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Thanks, it does work well. Much easier to use than my old setup and easy to fit into a bag. I redid the mount slightly to hold the cameras tighter and did a little more testing with angles.

With the 40 degree angle the blends are around 27 megapixels and a 2.7 to 2.75:1 AR. Around 8662 × 3144 pixels. It looks like around a 30% overlap when I compare the two shots.

I just retested a 50 degree angle and it is blending so I'm not sure what happened yesterday. With a 50 degree angle it looks like around 10% overlap. File size is 9322 × 3067 for 28.5 megapixels and a 3:1 AR. Will do a little more testing and then may print a 50 degree version. Probably going to set the cameras to f5.6 too.

KEH had a DXO One for $65 so that is on the way for a three camera setup.

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Old 11-29-2019   #6
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That's pretty cool. I like the results.

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Old 11-29-2019   #7
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50 degree 2 camera version is printing now. Has a couple of small tweaks to hold the cameras in tighter and to protect the sliding covers more. It is a 5 hour print job.

After that is done I will print a three camera version as my third camera is arriving tomorrow.

Same concept with two DXO Ones could be used for a stereo camera. I've never shot that format before.

My bigger question is if I keep the Noblex I just bought or not. I got it on a very good deal. It will have more vertical coverage than these but it is much less convenient to use and to bring with me. And if I need to additional vertical coverage I should be able to just tilt the digital camera and have a 4 (or 6) shot blend.

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Old 11-29-2019   #8
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The changes to hold the cameras tighter worked well. Very secure now. I also smoothed the sharp edges so it will slide in a camera bag easier.

On the two camera 50 degree version I also added a space to recess a bubble level (horizontal) into the camera. The 50 degree layout is blending fine. I also tried a 6 shot blend with panning the camera up and that blended too.

For the three camera 50 degree version I added three bubble levels. One is vertical for all three cameras and the other two are for horizontal when shooting with 2 of the 3 cameras or when shooting with all 3. Three camera version just started printing. About a 13 hour print job.

Shawn
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Old 11-30-2019   #9
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The 3 camera print had a corner lift a little which altered the placement on the right most camera a little. Will reprint in a bit after I verify the levels fitting properly (arriving tomorrow) and add a place for a wrist strap. The rounded corners are nicer to hold and the camera looks cool.










Tried two test shots in the backyard and they blended just fine.

I ended up with a 13977x3118 file (after cropping) which is about a 4.5:1 AR and a 43.5 megapixel panoramic. It is *very* wide. If I'm getting around a 38 degree vertical (the 32mm effective FOV is getting cropped a little in the blend) that should be about 171 degree horizontal.

Shawn
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Old 11-30-2019   #10
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Sweet! Great job Shawn!

Any chance we might see a file or two on thingiverse?

The two camera rig seems really interesting to me.
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Old 11-30-2019   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
If I'm getting around a 38 degree vertical (the 32mm effective FOV is getting cropped a little in the blend) that should be about 171 degree horizontal.
Just eyeballed it with a protractor and it is around 160-165 degrees horizontal. Compared to the Noblex's viewfinder it is considerably wider but doesn't have the same vertical FOV.

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Old 11-30-2019   #12
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Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Sweet! Great job Shawn!

Any chance we might see a file or two on thingiverse?

The two camera rig seems really interesting to me.
Thanks, not sure about thingiverse. Still tweaking these at the moment. I think I'll likely use the two camera version more too as the three is so very wide.

But it is so easy it will be be fun to practice with the three cameras. I'll also have to see what happens if I stagger the focus points between the three cameras and try for something like a panoramic macro. Could also do two side by side with different focus points (focus stacking) and a third for panoramic.

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Old 11-30-2019   #13
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Levels arrived early.





On the 2 camera version I only had the level recessed half way. With the 3 camera version I made them flush so they wouldn't get in the way of triggering the cameras. I prefer the look of the totally flush version.

Shawn
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Old 12-01-2019   #14
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Took the three camera version out today. Just test shots but it does have a lot of potential. I do want to work out a shutter release though as it is tricky hitting all three buttons at the same time without shaking the camera. I had a couple of blends where the side quality went down due to shake.

I think I am going to link the left and center shutters together and then trigger the right directly. That will keep me from blocking the bubble level and also allow it to shoot with just two cameras when desired. To fire all three I'd just use both hands like the two camera version. The levels were very nice to get even coverage with all cameras.

I did have a couple of close in shots that wouldn't blend in LR but AutoPano Giga handled it fine.

I also tried a couple with additional vertical shots and they blended fine. Weird perspective though due to the coverage of the cameras changing.



Also tried a comparison of the three camera blend vs a similar AR crop from the Sony with a 12mm on it shot from the same place.





I'll post more samples in the panoramic thread.

I also reworked the two camera rig a little more. I pushed the front panel out a couple of mm and that let me get two bubble levels in there for horizontal and vertical alignment. Printing now.

Shawn
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Old 12-01-2019   #15
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Great comparison.

Looking forward to what’s next!
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Old 12-01-2019   #16
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The comparison is interesting. Even more so if I start playing with all the different projection options available in AutoPano Giga.

For example:










Are all blends from the same three shots.

Prefer to use LR though as it is built in, quicker and I think does a better job with exposure blending as I think it applies lens corrections to the DNGs before blending. In AutoPano Giga vignetting can cause banding in the blends.

For what is next... this one:





Will be on the way to you soon.

Shawn
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Old 12-01-2019   #17
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This one is printing now...



Levels will be flush with the top.

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Old 12-01-2019   #18
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Cannot wait buddy!

Again, I really look forward to what you develop in the future.
For now I am glad to follow and see what comes of it.

So far I’m really impressed with your prints - we have a Cnc plasma table and a cheap 3D printer
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Old 12-01-2019   #19
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Cool project! It may be irrelevant in practice but in theory, wouldn't it be better to have the cameras converge with their fronts so the lenses are closer together? Should be possible with the two camera setup at least. Have you compared to see if it makes a difference?
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Old 12-01-2019   #20
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Thanks, I'm printing on a Monoprice Maker Select v2 that I've upgraded and dialed in pretty well.

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Old 12-01-2019   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
Cool project! It may be irrelevant in practice but in theory, wouldn't it be better to have the cameras converge with their fronts so the lenses are closer together? Should be possible with the two camera setup at least. Have you compared to see if it makes a difference?
I haven't tried that but certainly could. I'd just need to be careful to avoid the cameras seeing each other. Will give it a try next weekend. With as easy as these are blending it might not make much difference, except maybe close in shots.


My initial plan was for the three camera rig where bringing the lenses together wouldn't work. I also like having the screens really close to each other as a framing aid.

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Old 12-01-2019   #22
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Shawn,

I’m also on a Monoprice IIIP

Not sure the specific model - white - simple - took a few headaches to get it to work - I use Cura to print.
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Old 12-03-2019   #23
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My monoprice was a pain when I first got it. The aluminum stamping that the build plate attaches to was very flimsy and wouldn't hold a leveling. Replacing that made a huge difference in stability of the build plate leveling. I also put larger bearings in it, added the Z bracing (to reduce wiggle of the tower, echoing in the prints), added another relay to the control unit for the build plate heater (they tend to burn out the circuit board), put a muffin fan+shroud around the nozzle and switched to the all metal hot end. It prints way more consistently now. Just a bit of a pain to swap filaments. I have a glass build plate I will be adding soon as I am wearing out the original print surface.





I have a stereo/3d version printing now.

Shawn
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Old 12-03-2019   #24
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Every time I think 'last one' I have another idea and tweak things a little more.

This is a stereo/3D camera setup. Third camera slot was Dante's idea to allow for adjustable spacing between cameras.





Printing now. Tried putting the viewfinder between the camera bodies but the walls intruded on the framing and pushing the finder more toward the front made it feel very unnatural to hold and made eye positioning critical.

Since I modeled out a cold shoe I also went back to my initial model...





In this case I pushed the cold shoe in a little to leave room for a thumb to hold the case. Because the viewfinder is on the bottom the positioning doesn't feel as weird and you can still get right up to the viewfinder. Might add a strap position to it and then print it.

Shawn
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Old 12-03-2019   #25
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Thank you Shawn for this fascinating thread.

I am looking forward to seing your results with the stereo/3D assembly. I have two DxO One cameras in Android flavor and I would be happy to use them as a replacement for my old Fuji W3, which is now a bit long in the tooth.

Your design with the cold shoe looks cool. Maybe you could add a tripod mount and glue a 49mm filter ring without glass in front where the lens is...

Cheers!

Abbazz
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Old 12-03-2019   #26
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Every time I play with my (embarrassingly many) DxO Ones, I like to say "Open the pod bay doors, HAL."
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Old 12-03-2019   #27
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Wow! Great results - very inventive!
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Old 12-05-2019   #28
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Old 12-05-2019   #29
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Nice looking rig...

Now, we demand pictures!

Cheers!

Abbazz
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Old 12-05-2019   #30
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Shawn, got the rig, now if Dante could share some DxO’s

Haha Thanks again!

Still on the hunt for a couple at a good price.
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Old 12-05-2019   #31
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That is just neat.
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Old 12-05-2019   #32
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So since this is very similar, think back about 60+ years where some one had the idea of putting 3 motion picture camera's together and you have Cinerama. It works kind of similarly . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OoiM33PP1A
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Old 12-05-2019   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbazz View Post
Nice looking rig...

Now, we demand pictures!

Cheers!
Thanks, that turned out nice. I can't show any pictures from it as it just got mailed out.

I have a 2 camera version printing for me right now. Probably won't get a chance to do much with it till this weekend.

These are a couple from the 2 camera pano setup.

This one is a big crop of a 6 shot blend (2H x 3V)





Love that the 2 camera pano rig fits easily in a coat pocket.

Shawn
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Old 12-05-2019   #34
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Shawn, got the rig, now if Dante could share some DxO’s

Haha Thanks again!

Still on the hunt for a couple at a good price.
Glad it arrived.

Dante probably can't share the DXOs, he is going to need them.

Good luck on the hunt!

Shawn
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Old 12-05-2019   #35
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Originally Posted by filmtwit View Post
So since this is very similar, think back about 60+ years where some one had the idea of putting 3 motion picture camera's together and you have Cinerama. It works kind of similarly . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OoiM33PP1A
Yup, I mocked up a 3 camera rig (using 3 early single stands) and it looks like they would all clear each others field of view.

I didn't like that you couldn't see all three screens at the same time though. You kind of want to see them for framing as well as to make sure they took the picture when you try to trigger them. Still might try laying one out and printing it though.

Shawn
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Old 12-05-2019   #36
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Yup, I mocked up a 3 camera rig (using 3 early single stands) and it looks like they would all clear each others field of view.

I didn't like that you couldn't see all three screens at the same time though. You kind of want to see them for framing as well as to make sure they took the picture when you try to trigger them. Still might try laying one out and printing it though.

Shawn
OK, just laid it out in CAD.







With three cameras and a 50 degree angle between each camera it looks like the L and R camera will see bit of each other. And this is before I widen the outside walls for more strength. If I lower the angle to 40 or 45 degrees between cameras it should clear.

Shawn
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Old 12-05-2019   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Shawn, got the rig, now if Dante could share some DxO’s

Haha Thanks again!

Still on the hunt for a couple at a good price.
It's not the used prices, which are definitely modest for what they originally cost ($90 or so vs $700). It's the degradation in the permanently-mounted batteries, which means that some run down really, really quickly. I'm not sure if the issue is battery meter calibration or the batteries, but until I break open a really dead one, I have no idea what the power cell is like. In the cutaway drawings, it looks like a pretty big cylinder.

If you spring for a new CAM-01-00 (the original model), for about $60 over the cost of a used one, it comes with a license for DxO optics. CAM-01-01 does not come with that. CAM-01-00 will, though, need a firmware upgrade to do standalone mode.

D
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Old 12-05-2019   #38
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Thank you Shawn for this fascinating thread.

I am looking forward to seing your results with the stereo/3D assembly. I have two DxO One cameras in Android flavor and I would be happy to use them as a replacement for my old Fuji W3, which is now a bit long in the tooth.
Hey Abbazz -

How is the DxO One software in Android?

Dante

P.S. I recently obtained a G690 sports finder. Could they have made it any larger?!
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Old 12-05-2019   #39
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Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
It's not the used prices, which are definitely modest for what they originally cost ($90 or so vs $700). It's the degradation in the permanently-mounted batteries, which means that some run down really, really quickly. I'm not sure if the issue is battery meter calibration or the batteries, but until I break open a really dead one, I have no idea what the power cell is like. In the cutaway drawings, it looks like a pretty big cylinder.

If you spring for a new CAM-01-00 (the original model), for about $60 over the cost of a used one, it comes with a license for DxO optics. CAM-01-01 does not come with that. CAM-01-00 will, though, need a firmware upgrade to do standalone mode.

D
I just bought one with a totally dead battery for $30 from Adorama. After that arrives I will be poking around inside....

Yes, the original model with the DXO Optics Pro (and DXO Film Pack) is a bargain. After I put in the license it upgraded me to DXO Photolab and then to Photolab 2 for free. It is really nice software and has a lot of options (plus NIK built in) and integrates with Film Pack and Viewpoint. Viewpoint is great for wide angle shooters.

Shawn

P.S. Also worth pointing out they can run/shoot/recharge plugged into an external USB power pack.
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Old 12-05-2019   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
Hey Abbazz -

How is the DxO One software in Android?

Dante

P.S. I recently obtained a G690 sports finder. Could they have made it any larger?!
Hi Dante,

The Android software seems very similar to the IOS version, as far as I can see from the reviews (never tried a DxO One for Apple). But I only use the phone to change the settings (not so often). I really don't like the concept of using the camera tethered to a phone. I find the assembly flimsy and highly unpractical in use.

The standalone mode is what makes these little jewels what they are. I usually use either the full "Auto" mode, or a combination of the "Program" / "Aperture Priority" mode with the "Variable Hyperfocal" setting.

I have never used the G690 sports finder but it looks indeed quite beefy!

Cheers!

Abbazz
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