Delta 400 price vs Tmax 400
Old 09-24-2019   #1
Ccoppola82
Registered User
 
Ccoppola82 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 361
Delta 400 price vs Tmax 400

I am about using up my stashes of hp5+ and Tri x and was considering trying a t-grain film for fun and thinking the straighter curve might be beneficial in the VERY grey gloomy skies we get for the winter here. Iím a bit partial to Ilford products, so Delta 400 was my first choice. When I looked at B&H I noticed that the Delta 400 is almost $2 per roll more expensive! Is it that much better than T-max 400??
__________________
Leica M2/M6
Hasselblad 500CM

Instagram
Coppola_Art
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #2
CharlesDAMorgan
Registered User
 
CharlesDAMorgan is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,045
It's a bit cheaper over here, but I shoot both a lot, with a mild preference for the Tmax400. I think Delta has a bit more grain, which I do like, so horses for courses. OTOH Tmax can be pushed to 800 without extra developing so gives a stop of flexibility when shooting. I doubt I would shoot Delta at all if it was that much more expensive than Tmax.
__________________
Film amateur with a few rangefinders - Leica III, M2/M3, Werra 3 and Zeiss Super Ikonta 534/16 medium format.

Apart from that have a Rolleiflex 3.5F, the odd Minolta XD7, Hasselblad 500cm, a Topcon Super D and an Intrepid 5x4 large format (not the half of it but I am clearing them out, honest).

I do all my own black and white developing at home.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #3
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccoppola82 View Post
I am about using up my stashes of hp5+ and Tri x and was considering trying a t-grain film for fun and thinking the straighter curve might be beneficial in the VERY grey gloomy skies we get for the winter here. I’m a bit partial to Ilford products, so Delta 400 was my first choice. When I looked at B&H I noticed that the Delta 400 is almost $2 per roll more expensive! Is it that much better than T-max 400??
That's a crazy price difference. I strongly prefer Ilford films but would not hesitate to use TMAX 400 in 35mm size (no kodak paper issues).

Hard to see how Ilford competes with a nearly 40% higher price!
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #4
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,206
Yep in Aus Delta is consistently a couple of dollars more than Tmax. I’ve never really understood why...
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #5
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
The 400Tmax (400-2TMY) is simply the best B+W film available today. I will never pay one cent more for Delta.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #6
Dan Daniel
Registered User
 
Dan Daniel is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,564
Very strange. And yet in 120 Ilford and Kodak are the same price more or less.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #7
css9450
Registered User
 
css9450's Avatar
 
css9450 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccoppola82 View Post
When I looked at B&H I noticed that the Delta 400 is almost $2 per roll more expensive! Is it that much better than T-max 400??

Prices seem to vary widely. B&H charges the same for T-Max vs. Tri-X, whereas my local shop charges a $3 premium for T-Max with Delta 400 splitting the difference between the two. This is in 35mm size.
__________________
Nikon S2, S3, F, F2, F3, FM2, FA, N90S, D80, D7000, D750, Sony a6000, Canon IIf, Leica CL, Tower type 3, Zorki 4, Vito B, Perkeo II, Rollei 35....
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #8
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,499
I don't understand.
OP is looking at BH and two dollars makes difference.
Then why not use film in bulks? Or is it about 120 film?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...Ntt=bw%20film&

Delta in bulks price is less outrageous.
Ten rolls won't makes difference on two dollars difference. If you like Delta.

I don't like Delta at all, lifeless emulsion. TMAX smells like digital too
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #9
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
TMAX smells like digital too

Maybe it smells digital -I never smell film- but it doesn't look digital at all. Photography is about looking, isn't it?


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #10
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 78
Posts: 6,102
TMAX always looks flat to me in the middle tones. And when I try to boost the contrast with longer development, I get blocked highlights. I don't seem to have these problems with the Delta films, so I stopped buying TMAX a long time ago. I suppose they could have modified its response curve by now, but I haven't gone back to try it again.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #11
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
TMAX always looks flat to me in the middle tones. And when I try to boost the contrast with longer development, I get blocked highlights. I don't seem to have these problems with the Delta films, so I stopped buying TMAX a long time ago. I suppose they could have modified its response curve by now, but I haven't gone back to try it again.

It makes a difference if you only scan the negatives or if you make wet prints (silver/gelatine) directly from them.

The 400-2TMY is perfectly allright for split grade printing, anyway the best thing to do with B+W negatives. Also my older Tmax400 negatives are perfectly allright for split grade printing.

Delta films are grainy and not very sharp.

Of course the developing procedure for the films is very important.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #12
Deardorff38
Registered User
 
Deardorff38's Avatar
 
Deardorff38 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Daniel View Post
Very strange. And yet in 120 Ilford and Kodak are the same price more or less.
& in 4x5 & 5x7 Ilford is at least 1/2 the price of TMY2
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #13
jawarden
Registered User
 
jawarden is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccoppola82 View Post
Is it that much better than T-max 400??
It is no better. Try the TMax and see if it works for you. They're both great films and with patience and a little homework you can work with either, so you might as well get the less expensive product.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #14
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 70
Posts: 5,966
Strange things about pricing! Where I live prices are for 35mm 36 exposure : delta 400 = 6.90 EUR; T max 400 = 6,81 EUR , not a big difference!

For my hybrid workflow they are both good, I love them both.

If as I hope in a few weeks I'll have a darkroom available it can be different.
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #15
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
It makes a difference if you only scan the negatives or if you make wet prints (silver/gelatine) directly from them.

The 400-2TMY is perfectly allright for split grade printing, anyway the best thing to do with B+W negatives. Also my older Tmax400 negatives are perfectly allright for split grade printing.

Delta films are grainy and not very sharp.

Of course the developing procedure for the films is very important.

Erik.
I prefer Tri-X or HP5+ to either Delta 400 or Tmax 400 (partly because it is what I am used to, perhaps) so I rarely use either of the latter. But I've found Delta 100, which I have shot more of to be respectably sharp, and fine grained. As you say, development regime is indeed important. For me, that almost invariably means ID-11 1 + 3 @ 20C for 21 minutes or so. 1 + 3 is Ilford's own instruction for maximum sharpness.
Cheers,
Brett
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #16
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcophilus Harrisii View Post
I prefer Tri-X or HP5+ to either Delta 400 or Tmax 400 (partly because it is what I am used to, perhaps) so I rarely use either of the latter.
Maybe 20 years ago or so the TriX has been changed from two layers - a sharp contrasty one and a soft one - into a single layer. Since then I didn't like it anymore. The effect became too graphical, it was not painterly anymore. I like painterly B+W films.

The older TriX from the seventies was wonderful. I still have all my negatives that I've made since 1970. Around 1985 TriX changed and was less sharp, but the tonality was still superb. At the end of the nineties it changed again. I wrote that above. Since then I use the Tmax400. It has a very fine grain and a better tonality than the single layer TriX.

In the seventies the TriX in Europe was made in France. I am sure that the changes after that were caused by the change of the location were the film was made, England or the US.

The choice for film by the users is of course highly subjective.

Erik.


TriX from 1973:




400-2TMY from 2018:

  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #17
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 78
Posts: 6,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post

Delta films are grainy and not very sharp.

Of course the developing procedure for the films is very important.

Erik.
Funny, Shots I've done with Delta 100 have been fine grain and sharp enough to rival my Hasselblad pictures. Maybe it's my developing procedure.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #18
kiemchacsu
Registered User
 
kiemchacsu is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 38
Posts: 1,031
it's REALLY funny for te price of tmy-2 100ft roll;
if one can make 19 roll 36 exp from that (which I do), it cost more than you buy a rolled manufacture. ($6.83 vs $5.79)
may be it's the way they encourage you to buy pre-rolled film



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I don't understand.
OP is looking at BH and two dollars makes difference.
Then why not use film in bulks? Or is it about 120 film?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...Ntt=bw%20film&

Delta in bulks price is less outrageous.
Ten rolls won't makes difference on two dollars difference. If you like Delta.

I don't like Delta at all, lifeless emulsion. TMAX smells like digital too
__________________
Cheers,
Trung Nguyen

RF
F
photo essays: Hanoi | Hoi An | Ha Giang | Fish Market
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-2019   #19
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Funny, Shots I've done with Delta 100 have been fine grain and sharp enough to rival my Hasselblad pictures. Maybe it's my developing procedure.

Very good possible, in fact I was talking about the Delta 400, an error ... I'm sorry.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #20
Mooshoepork
Registered User
 
Mooshoepork is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Yep in Aus Delta is consistently a couple of dollars more than Tmax. Iíve never really understood why...
Probably because Kodak sells tmax to dealers cheaper than CR Kennedy sells Delta.

Not that hard to figure out
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #21
retinax
Registered User
 
retinax is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 939
I think it's all been said, delta 400 doesn't have the resolution of tmy-2, and if you don't have any specific reasons, might as well to for what's cheaper.
If like to hear your thoughts about why you want a straight curve for gloomy winter skies. Are you prepared to do a lot of burning the skies in? Because IMHO that's the main thing with straight lines, they give you lots of material for dodging and burning, but you have to dodge and burn more than with an s-curve or you get the flat looking mid tones that some complain about with the designer grain films. Because the very highlights and deep shadows simply end up further away from the mid tones on the curve, and to get them all on paper without much d&b will require a softer grade, compared to a film with an s-curve.
I think (no densitomer, just theory and casual observation) I can bend the curve down in the highlights with dilute developer and reduced agitation though, so these films are very flexible.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #22
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
Are you prepared to do a lot of burning the skies in? Because IMHO that's the main thing with straight lines, they give you lots of material for dodging and burning, but you have to dodge and burn more than with an s-curve or you get the flat looking mid tones that some complain about with the designer grain films.

Split grade printing. No burning or dodging necessary. Invented in the fifties by Pictorial Service in Paris.

There should be a possibility in Photoshop to create split grade printing digitally. Maybe it exists, I don't know. I do it with the Ilford filters 00 and 5 on Adox MCC 110 paper.

To get a digital file I simply scan the print.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #23
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooshoepork View Post
Probably because Kodak sells tmax to dealers cheaper than CR Kennedy sells Delta.

Not that hard to figure out
Thank you for the insight.
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #24
Solinar
Analog Preferred
 
Solinar's Avatar
 
Solinar is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 65
Posts: 2,555
Whoa - I didn't know that a roll of 135-36 black and white film is currently almost $13.00 USD in Australia. You all have my condolences.

My advise, try a couple rolls of TMY-2. Then see if you like it.
__________________
- Andrew in Austin, Texas -

35mm Gear Bessa R, Leica II, - IIIg, - M2
Just for fun 35mm Gear a Kodak Retina IIa, a Rollei 35 S, plus a Voigtlander Vito II and Vito BR
Modern Medium Format Fuji GW 690III
Vintage MF Folders a Voigtlšnder Perkeo II and Bessa II, 2 of them - a ZI Mess Ikonta 524/2 - plus an Agfa Super Isolette & a Record III
Digital a D300 and a D700 with some primes - still going over a decade later

"Who spilled the Dektol on the bathroom carpet?"
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #25
retinax
Registered User
 
retinax is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Split grade printing. No burning or dodging necessary. Invented in the fifties by Pictorial Service in Paris.

There should be a possibility in Photoshop to create split grade printing digitally. Maybe it exists, I don't know. I do it with the Ilford filters 00 and 5 on Adox MCC 110 paper.

To get a digital file I simply scan the print.

Erik.

Yes I think when split-grade printing, the soft exposure makes sure that no highlights get blown. Pre-flashing the paper is another useful tool in the box here. Both comes at the expense of soft contrast in the highlights, how else, the excess contrast needs to go somewhere. A film/dev regime with stronger highlight roll-off has that built in, but burning in from these negs will only allow you to bring the soft contrast from the shoulder down to printable range. If one wants more contrast in the highlights and/or the burnt in areas, dodging and burning from a straight line negative it is.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #26
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solinar View Post
Whoa - I didn't know that a roll of 135-36 black and white film is currently almost $13.00 USD in Australia. You all have my condolences.
It isn't?

Currently in Aus Delta400 is $7.45usd and Tmax400 $6.45usd (depending where you shop)...
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #27
Tim Gray
Registered User
 
Tim Gray is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,868
Not really used a lot of Delta. Have use a bit of Tri-X. While it does have its place, I think TMY-2 is probably the best B&W film ever.
__________________
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #28
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
Yes I think when split-grade printing, the soft exposure makes sure that no highlights get blown. Pre-flashing the paper is another useful tool in the box here. Both comes at the expense of soft contrast in the highlights, how else, the excess contrast needs to go somewhere. A film/dev regime with stronger highlight roll-off has that built in, but burning in from these negs will only allow you to bring the soft contrast from the shoulder down to printable range. If one wants more contrast in the highlights and/or the burnt in areas, dodging and burning from a straight line negative it is.

There are so many possibilities with split grade printing, you can burn in the high lights with the hard filter if you like. There is no end to it. Fascinating, really.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #29
Ccoppola82
Registered User
 
Ccoppola82 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 361
I actually started using split grade printing after I got a Bessemer universal 45 w VC controller for dirt cheap. Lambrechts book also has good sections on contrast control. The VC controller makes it very simple and easy to fine tune because I can dial in ANY grade in .1 increments if I want to.
__________________
Leica M2/M6
Hasselblad 500CM

Instagram
Coppola_Art
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #30
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccoppola82 View Post
I actually started using split grade printing after I got a Bessemer universal 45 w VC controller for dirt cheap. Lambrechts book also has good sections on contrast control. The VC controller makes it very simple and easy to fine tune because I can dial in ANY grade in .1 increments if I want to.

Yes, but you only need two filters: 00 and 5. There are two exposures, usually a long one with the 00 to control the highlights and a short one with the 5 to determine the deep blacks. This way of printing needs a lot of test exposures, but is very rewarding because you can get a professional quality print of practically every negative, old or new and good or bad.


Erik.


  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #31
olifaunt
Registered User
 
olifaunt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solinar View Post
Whoa - I didn't know that a roll of 135-36 black and white film is currently almost $13.00 USD in Australia. You all have my condolences.
I recently traveled to Australia and ran out of film. Prices were so astronomical I couldn't afford to buy Tri-X there. I ended up getting some rolls of 24 Kodak Gold just to have something to shoot with but I think even that was about double what 36 Portra 400 would cost me here.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #32
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by olifaunt View Post
I recently traveled to Australia and ran out of film. Prices were so astronomical I couldn't afford to buy Tri-X there. I ended up getting some rolls of 24 Kodak Gold just to have something to shoot with but I think even that was about double what 36 Portra 400 would cost me here.
There's considerable difference in prices in Aus depending where you shop. The best (legitimate) Australian online stores have prices a little higher but comparable to the US. But if you walk into a Camera House on main street you'll easily find yourself paying $20aud for a roll of Portra
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #33
james.liam
Registered User
 
james.liam is offline
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nieuw Amsterdam
Posts: 297
@ B&H:

TMax 400: $5.80
Delta 400: $7.50
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-25-2019   #34
dourbalistar
Registered User
 
dourbalistar's Avatar
 
dourbalistar is offline
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by james.liam View Post
@ B&H:

TMax 400: $5.80
Delta 400: $7.50
Oddly enough, the prices for a 100-foot roll are reversed:
T-Max 400: $129.95
Delta 400: $79.99

__________________
I like my lenses sharp as a tank and built like a tack.

flickr
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 19:59.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.