Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Rangefinder Forum > Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film

Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film Discuss Image processing -- traditional darkoom or digital lightroom here. Notice there are subcategories to narrow down subject matter. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Negative Lab Pro
Old 10-11-2018   #1
Daniel.E
Registered User
 
Daniel.E is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 15
Negative Lab Pro

This is it! All in Lightroom and excellent skin tones with little work. Iíve been playing with this plugin and itís amazing!

Hereís a video of how it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jmfpxaz17w

https://www.negativelabpro.com/download/

Iím in no way associated with the creator but good ideas need to get out there. This plugin is fantastic!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-11-2018   #2
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
Yup... Nearly automatic, quite good color. By Nathan Johnson. It's not fully released, but download, install, follow the instructions. Manual is a little thin. But, this LR plug-in works.

Here below is my standard test box scene, familiar colors, shot on Fuji 200 film in bright direct sunlight. Then camera-scan with a Sony. See this thread for a host of approaches for converting the RAW file.

This conversion used Negative Lab Pro settings: Noritsu (emulates the color from that scanner), Pre-Sat 2 (check the manual), Standard. Then the usual sliders for dark, light, and mid-tones.

__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-11-2018   #3
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,467
Col, have you scanned this negative on an actual Noritsu, Fuji or Pakon scanner?

The above inversion doesn't look right to me.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2018   #4
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
Col, have you scanned this negative on an actual Noritsu, Fuji or Pakon scanner?

The above inversion doesn't look right to me.
Thanks for the question. What doesn't look right to you?

Here's a capture of the original scene in the moment, in same light, with an A6000. Processed the RAW in Lightroom, Camera-Neutral profile.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2018   #5
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
The above inversion doesn't look right to me.
I've got C-41 negatives of this scene on Fuji 200 and on Ektar. I have the digital capture in the moment. I've done various camera-scans of the negatives, run it through Coolscan/Vuescan and I have a lab scan (Noritsu scan by Precision). My overall take: There's no precision in color, the red Coke can is especially difficult, the green whiskey bottle is easy, the Kodak yellow/gold is variable. Easy to make the Color-Checker neutral.

One conclusion: Nearly automatic processes from a camera-scan, especially with just a little manual touch up, are better than the presumably fully automatic Noritsu scan. YMMV.

All you camera-scanners, I do suggest you download and try out Nathan's wares. Free trial, limited to a dozen scans. Best regards to all.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2018   #6
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
I'll see if I can post a Pakon scan for comparison.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-12-2018   #7
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
Found it. Here's a Pakon scan. I think the camera-scan inversions, with a little touchup, are better than this or the Noritsu from the lab.

__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-13-2018   #8
Scottboarding
Registered User
 
Scottboarding is offline
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Arizona
Posts: 97
Just downloaded the trial and tried it on some Portra 400 and Agfa Vista 200. Both scanned raw in Silverfast. I like it a lot! Still not sure if I'm going to buy it, but it is quite nice.

Portra 400


Agfa Vista 200
__________________
Leica M2 - Zeiss 50mm f2 Planar ZM
Nikon FM2n - Nikon F3HP - Voigtlander 40mm f2 SLii - Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 Planar
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-21-2018   #9
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
All you camera-scanners...
This popped up today in my various feeds and looks interesting, but I'm trying to figure out if it's specifically for camera scanning, or would it be of value for processing home flat-bed scans?
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2018   #10
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
This popped up today in my various feeds and looks interesting, but I'm trying to figure out if it's specifically for camera scanning, or would it be of value for processing home flat-bed scans?
Yes, it is advertised as useful to process flat-bed scans.

For camera scans, clear to me that it's better than what we get from the mini-lab.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-25-2018   #11
danitoma
Registered User
 
danitoma is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 10
So I've been playing with the demo for the last couple of days and have to agree this is a fantastic piece of software. And something I really wanted for a long time, to be able to stay in lightroom as much as possible and not having to create bloated (make) tiff files for every single photo.

After testing quite a few actions for photoshop and buying Colorperfect, Colorperfect was the definative winner for me, although hard to understand all the options and the design. But Negative Lab Pro gives at least equal and for many photos I've tested so far a better result with a much simpler interface.

One thing I would really like to see added to the plugin is a white balance dropper just like lightroom. For some photos there needs to be fiddled with the color sliders quite a bit to get rid of a colour cast, and a dropper would speed this up a lot.

This is probably very complex to make, and I understand there is the possibility to make a tiff copy to edit further in LR (or PS), but as I mentioned before I'd prefer not creating tiff files when possible.

The only real issue I've run into so far is that sometimes the reds are not really red but more magenta. This is more severe in some films than others and also visible in Col. Sebastian's test shots. All PS actions I've tried had much worse color issues, and Colorperfect is not perfect either, it can give quite muddy greens. But to me the muddy greens are less objectionable and easier to correct/minimize.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y1...5uMDQleZgjLV4n

In the photos in the link the issue with red is clear in the sweater and the toys. The other picture the colours of the guitars are more natural (and accurate) in the colorperfect version. These are more orange, but to me orange is a bit reddish still, so it might be part of the same problem.

It's of course possible the problem lies with me and I just don't know how to use the plugin or how to correct the cast!

TLDR: fantastic plugin, some issues (for me) but very high on my to purchase list
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1 Colorperfect.jpg (13.9 KB, 29 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-25-2018   #12
dubesor
Registered User
 
dubesor is offline
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
http://natephotographic.com/dslr-fil...pment-software - Check out the image comparisons in this post (granted it's from the tool's author but STILL!). Blows the other techniques out of the water. I'm excited to try my own and for others to post their Negative Lab Pro images - either here or on the big DSLR scan thread at https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=161028
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-25-2018   #13
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,882
I will definitely try this out!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-26-2018   #14
firstnate
Registered User
 
firstnate is offline
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Hi guys - Nate Johnson here, author of Negative Lab Pro.

I've been a lurker here at rff for a while, so it's kind of surreal to see discussions about something I built!

I'm happy to answer any questions you guys have about Negative Lab Pro and how it works, or also see if there are ways that I can improve it? I really want Negative Lab Pro to be the absolute best tool for converting and editing color negatives, and a lot of the features you already see were ideas from beta users (adjustable Auto-Color, Tone Profiles, CMY color balancing... all ideas from users!)

Just to answer a few questions I've already seen in this thread:

- Does it work with flatbed scans? YES - although I don't have color model calibrations yet. You should still give great results, just won't be as close to Frontier and Noritsu as is possible to get with DSLR profiles at the moment.

- Issue with red being overly magenta (and overly saturated) sometimes: Yes, aware of this and there is a fix... this is an artifact of the way the channel independent tone curves work in LR, and will be most noticeable on intense reds in scenes with high contrast added. Basically, because Lightroom doesn't have luminosity curves, the addition of the contrast is added saturation and changing hue (particularly in reds). To correct for this, unconvert and lower your "pre-saturation" in Negative Lab Pro to "1". Then reconvert. If it is still overly magenta, go to saturation in the HSL panel, use the color picker, and drag down on the red in your picture... this will both tone saturation AND warm up the red hue (because of the way it acts on the original negative).

Any more questions or suggestion? Let's hear it!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-26-2018   #15
bayernfan
Registered User
 
bayernfan's Avatar
 
bayernfan is offline
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 748
i'm pretty impressed so far. the "noritsu" mode, linear, with some minor tweaking creates a fantastic starting point for colors. great job Nate.
__________________
M_V instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-26-2018   #16
danitoma
Registered User
 
danitoma is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 10
Hello Nate,

first thanks for your hard work and fantastic plugin.

I've tried the fix you mentioned for the reds and get drastic improvements. I wasn't sure if your solution should be done on a converted raw file or on a tiff copy. But am glad to say it works on a converted raw, no need for tiffs! The only thing I found is that I actually had to pull the color picker up. Some playing around with the aqua and blue sliders in the HSL tabs worked great and gave further improvements.


While I first thought that I would use colorperfect on the photos where the reds where messed up, i don't see any reason to do that right now. Extremely happy that a complete negative workflow can be done non-destructively on the raws in lightroom!

Would it be possible to get a white balance dropper in the plugin, before the conversion? As I've mentioned, I'd prefer to keep the workflow on the raws, without copies, and the white balnace dropper from lightroom does not work well after conversion.

And what are your plans for the plugin? Will it be a single release, or will updates keep coming. And would they be "included" with the original license or bought seperatly? (And I gladly invest money for such a great and usefull thing). Somewhere on this site I saw someone mention that it is not yet ready for release at the moment, but can't find that message right now. Is this true and if so, can you give an indication when the release version can be bought?

T
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Negative lab pro without hsl.jpg (78.9 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg Negative lab pro with HSL.jpg (74.8 KB, 20 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-26-2018   #17
danitoma
Registered User
 
danitoma is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 10
Oh, one other thing came to mind. At the moment it is not possible to zoom in or out in the plugin. If this could be made possible it would be great. That way playing with the dark and light sliders could be done zommed in on shadow or highlight area and a compleet overview can be used to judge the conversion.

Thanks again!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-27-2018   #18
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstnate View Post
- Issue with red being overly magenta (and overly saturated) sometimes: Yes, aware of this and there is a fix... this is an artifact of the way the channel independent tone curves work in LR, and will be most noticeable on intense reds in scenes with high contrast added. Basically, because Lightroom doesn't have luminosity curves, the addition of the contrast is added saturation and changing hue (particularly in reds). To correct for this, unconvert and lower your "pre-saturation" in Negative Lab Pro to "1". Then reconvert. If it is still overly magenta, go to saturation in the HSL panel, use the color picker, and drag down on the red in your picture... this will both tone saturation AND warm up the red hue (because of the way it acts on the original negative).
Nate thank you for this. The red Coke can is the toughest color in my test box, for all approaches to inverting the camera-scan of C-41 negatives.

Will try it.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-27-2018   #19
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,367
Readers: Nate Johnson has now release Negative Lab Pro

Free trial and purchase available at: https://www.negativelabpro.com

Also, there is a Facebook group for this product. Join, then post examples and questions there.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Nothing.
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-28-2018   #20
Pete B
Registered User
 
Pete B's Avatar
 
Pete B is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,171
Hi Nate, or anyone else who has the facility to try this, will the plugin work with a Vuescan DNG file from a C41 scan with the scanner in Transparency scanning mode?
Pete
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-28-2018   #21
Daniel.E
Registered User
 
Daniel.E is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 15
If you send me one I can try it out for you and post results here.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-28-2018   #22
mod2001
Old school modernist
 
mod2001 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Barcelona/Catalunya
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubesor View Post
Blows the other techniques out of the water.
No, it doesn't. But the reason is less the Plugin itself and more the correction algorithms in LR which are (not only im my opinion) still not the last word on the subject. But yes, it's quite close to CP. I stay with CP as I don't like LR for post processing and scan as Tiff and work in PS anyway. I usually don't have to mess around with additional color correction in post after batch converting all files wit CP based on my own profiles, some final contrast and sharpening, done. Fast & perfect. And you can't blow perfect results out of the water. Biggest advantage in comparison to CP is the saved disc space as you don't have to create 2 files in case you want to keep the original scan as well. And of course in case of camera scans, you don't have to create tiff files in the first place.

Anyway, it is definitely a really good solution for the RAW and LR user around and based on the posted examples obviously also better in comparison to the out of the box results you get with a Pakon, Noritsu or Fuji Frontier. I like it and will follow the development for sure. Nice to see that film shooters still get some attention

Juergen
__________________
Nikon F3 / Nikkor 50mm/f1.2 AIS / Nikkor 28mm/f2.0 AIS / Black Contax T3
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #23
FujiLove
Registered User
 
FujiLove is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 578
Three questions:



1. When I first run the demo plugin, the option to choose the colour profile (Frontier, Noritsu etc.) is greyed out. But if I 'unconvert' the option becomes available. Is this a bug, or part of the limits of the demo, or am I missing something?


2. I'm scanning raw files with an Epson V550 flatbed, but there are no profiles included for scanners, only digital cameras. Should I be changing something in Lightroom to account for this?


3. Any recommendations for how to use colour profiles through the whole flatbed scanning --> editing in Lightroom --> NLP conversion process?
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #24
PaulDalex
Dilettante artist
 
PaulDalex's Avatar
 
PaulDalex is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rome, Italy
Age: 74
Posts: 467
I am interested, but I dont' use Lightroom like mod2001.
Why don't they make a standalone or a PS plugin?
And, with an apology for the dumb question, what is CP?
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #25
FujiLove
Registered User
 
FujiLove is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistach View Post
I am interested, but I dont' use Lightroom like mod2001.
Why don't they make a standalone or a PS plugin?
And, with an apology for the dumb question, what is CP?

A standalone would be very difficult because this plugin taps into all the functionality built into Lightroom. A PS plugin would be easier, I guess, but you would then lose all the cataloging and non-destructive editing benefits of Lightroom. This seems to be the best of both worlds for me.



CP = ColorPerfect
https://www.colorperfect.com/colorperfect.html?lang=en
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #26
Pete B
Registered User
 
Pete B's Avatar
 
Pete B is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel.E View Post
If you send me one I can try it out for you and post results here.
PM sent
Pete
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #27
Gordon Coale
Registered User
 
Gordon Coale's Avatar
 
Gordon Coale is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Whidbey Island -- north of Seattle
Age: 75
Posts: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete B View Post
Hi Nate, or anyone else who has the facility to try this, will the plugin work with a Vuescan DNG file from a C41 scan with the scanner in Transparency scanning mode?
Pete
I've not scanned in DNG before but I just did. I set Vuescan for a raw Tiff DNG file from a Portra 400 negative in slide mode and it worked very well.
__________________
What I am currently shooting:
35mm: 1949 Leica IIIc, 1937 Leica IIIa, 1935 Leica Standard, 1951 Canon IVSB, Voigtlander Bessa T, Asahi Pentax K, Nikon F, Nikon F4s
Medium Format: Bronica SQ-A, Isolette II, Mamiya C330
Digital: Panasonic GH3, Olympus Pen Mini E-PM2, Olympus Pen E-P2 converted to IR
gordy's camera straps for sale * my feedback
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #28
firstnate
Registered User
 
firstnate is offline
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Ok, whew, let me see if I can respond to everyone so far...


Quote:
i'm pretty impressed so far. the "noritsu" mode, linear, with some minor tweaking creates a fantastic starting point for colors. great job Nate.
Great! Thank you!

Quote:
I've tried the fix you mentioned for the reds and get drastic improvements.
Perfect! I'll probably add this red fix into the plugin itself in a future version, because I find I do it a lot now with scenes that have saturated reds...

Quote:
Would it be possible to get a white balance dropper in the plugin, before the conversion? As I've mentioned, I'd prefer to keep the workflow on the raws, without copies, and the white balnace dropper from lightroom does not work well after conversion.
I don't believe there is a way in the SDK to make a selection in the original image while the plugin is active... and yes, using the neutral selector after conversion will not work well on the raw (although you may be able to get away with small changes) That's why I added the "auto-color" and the color balancing section to Negative Lab Pro, (though I do find myself wishing I could use a neutral point selector). One trick with the auto color is that you can adjust the strength of the correction... 9/10 I can just adjust the strength and be done with color correction. In my video guide (https://www.negativelabpro.com/guide) I have a section on color balancing at about 27 minutes in, that explains the color balance section of Negative Lab Pro and how to use the mid/highlight/shadow color balancing to get better color results.

Quote:
And what are your plans for the plugin? Will it be a single release, or will updates keep coming. And would they be "included" with the original license or bought separately? (And I gladly invest money for such a great and useful thing).
As long as photographers like it and purchase it, I will continue developing it and making it better. My plan is that core updates would be included in the original license (thing like compatibility updates, better calibrations for scanners, new camera profiles, etc). I'm not sure if I would ever have a paid update or add-on... haven't ruled it out, but it would have to be something really worthwhile.

Quote:
At the moment it is not possible to zoom in or out in the plugin.
Unfortunately, Lightroom's SDK doesn't allow me to do this at the moment.

Quote:
Will the plugin work with a Vuescan DNG file from a C41 scan with the scanner in Transparency scanning mode?
Yes, it will work. A word of caution though, even though it is a DNG file, it is not the same thing as a RAW camera DNG file... I believe it's basically a DNG wrapper around a linear tiff. So when you use Negative Lab Pro, I would recommend at least for now setting the "color model" to "none" - otherwise it will try to treat it as a RAW camera profile, and you may get some unexpected colors.

Quote:
When I first run the demo plugin, the option to choose the colour profile (Frontier, Noritsu etc.) is greyed out. But if I 'unconvert' the option becomes available. Is this a bug, or part of the limits of the demo, or am I missing something?
This is a bug

Quote:
I'm scanning raw files with an Epson V550 flatbed, but there are no profiles included for scanners, only digital cameras. Should I be changing something in Lightroom to account for this?
The biggest thing with flatbed scanners is getting a good, linear TIFF with high bit-depth. If you are using Epson Scan, make sure to use the neutral area selector (inside the histogram tool) to white-balance off of the film mask before scanning. This should get you a very accurate conversion in Negative Lab Pro. (and I'm working on scanner profiles that will let you use the Frontier / Noritsu color models as well).

Quote:
A PS plugin would be easier, I guess, but you would then lose all the cataloging and non-destructive editing benefits of Lightroom. This seems to be the best of both worlds for me.
Exactly... would have been easier making a photoshop plugin (and maybe I still will), but the cataloging and non-destructive editing benefits of Lightroom just make it such a pleasure to edit negatives with! I've also invested a TON of time and research into the color science behind it, so really thrilled to see other film photographers loving it and helping make it better
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #29
bayernfan
Registered User
 
bayernfan's Avatar
 
bayernfan is offline
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 748
"The biggest thing with flatbed scanners is getting a good, linear TIFF with high bit-depth. If you are using Epson Scan, make sure to use the neutral area selector (inside the histogram tool) to white-balance off of the film mask before scanning. This should get you a very accurate conversion in Negative Lab Pro. (and I'm working on scanner profiles that will let you use the Frontier / Noritsu color models as well)."

If you could create a profile for the last generation of Nikon Coolscans (Coolscan V, 5000, etc), that would be incredible. Right now I'm creating positive linear scans in Nikon Scan using this method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBICO5Nsl3E

If your plugin had a profile for this linear scan process, I'd be ready to throw money at you.
__________________
M_V instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #30
Scottboarding
Registered User
 
Scottboarding is offline
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Arizona
Posts: 97
Bought it and love it! I do have one suggestion though!

In the new Lightrooms you're able to apply what is basically a LUT on any raw file regardless of what camera you use (just as long as it's a raw image). RNI made some film emulation ones that I can apply easily to my Silverfast raw scans since they're a DNG file. If you could create one for Negative Lab Pro, it would (in theory) work for any camera and any film scanner raw images. You wouldn't even have to make new profiles for new cameras when they come out since the profile isn't camera specific.

I have absolutely no idea how difficult that would be, or if it would even make sense for something like this, but it was just a thought I had.

Great work on this!
__________________
Leica M2 - Zeiss 50mm f2 Planar ZM
Nikon FM2n - Nikon F3HP - Voigtlander 40mm f2 SLii - Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 Planar
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #31
firstnate
Registered User
 
firstnate is offline
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Quote:
Bought it and love it!
You are awesome.

Quote:
In the new Lightrooms you're able to apply what is basically a LUT on any raw file regardless of what camera you use (just as long as it's a raw image). RNI made some film emulation ones that I can apply easily to my Silverfast raw scans since they're a DNG file. If you could create one for Negative Lab Pro, it would (in theory) work for any camera and any film scanner raw images. You wouldn't even have to make new profiles for new cameras when they come out since the profile isn't camera specific.
It's a good idea, but the problem is that the LUT is just applied on top of an underlying DCP camera profile (it doesn't replace it). So if I didn't make the custom DCP camera profile, the LUT would just be applied on top of Adobe Standard, which is not ideal because it has an embedded tone curve and hue twists, which are both the enemies of proper negative conversions. So in any case, I still need the Negative Lab Pro camera profiles to be made for proper conversions. I may end up using LUTs for other purposes though...
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #32
Scottboarding
Registered User
 
Scottboarding is offline
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Arizona
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstnate View Post
It's a good idea, but the problem is that the LUT is just applied on top of an underlying DCP camera profile (it doesn't replace it). So if I didn't make the custom DCP camera profile, the LUT would just be applied on top of Adobe Standard, which is not ideal because it has an embedded tone curve and hue twists, which are both the enemies of proper negative conversions. So in any case, I still need the Negative Lab Pro camera profiles to be made for proper conversions. I may end up using LUTs for other purposes though...
Interesting, I had no idea how it worked, just saw that they could be applied to my film scans. I also notice that, despite not having the camera profile, I can choose Noritsu or Frontier and the histogram changes very slightly. I don't notice much of a difference between them, but I'm glad it still does something on film scanner files!
__________________
Leica M2 - Zeiss 50mm f2 Planar ZM
Nikon FM2n - Nikon F3HP - Voigtlander 40mm f2 SLii - Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 Planar
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #33
firstnate
Registered User
 
firstnate is offline
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Quote:
If you could create a profile for the last generation of Nikon Coolscans (Coolscan V, 5000, etc), that would be incredible.
Yes, it is high on my priority list.

Don't be afraid to try it out now though. In theory, the tones profiles should already work great (since both the camera profiles and flatbed scans you have are linear) and the colors should already be "accurate" – what the color model profile will do is basically give it the same color biases you see on those particular lab scanners models (noritsu and frontier)... but you should still be able to get killer results as is.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #34
firstnate
Registered User
 
firstnate is offline
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Quote:
I also notice that, despite not having the camera profile, I can choose Noritsu or Frontier and the histogram changes very slightly. I don't notice much of a difference between them, but I'm glad it still does something on film scanner files!
Oops... this may be a little bug... if it is a scanned file, your color model should be set at "none" - but if you have a "DNG" or "NEF" file from a scanner, NLP thinks it is from a camera and allows you to apply the camera calibration settings... you will probably see some weird colors (very turquoise and pink). If you unconvert the negative and set your color model to "none" on the scanned file, you will likely see better colors.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-29-2018   #35
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,882
I'm getting a weird behaviour where if I click on Auto Colour - the text not the check box or the % level, it corrects the colour. And makes it look great. But if I click on the check box it reverts to the un corrected. And if I uncheck it it remains un corrected.
Then if I click on the text again it corrects it again. But if I try to save (or make any other changes), it reverts back to the uncorrected version.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-30-2018   #36
firstnate
Registered User
 
firstnate is offline
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I'm getting a weird behaviour where if I click on Auto Colour - the text not the check box or the % level, it corrects the colour. And makes it look great. But if I click on the check box it reverts to the un corrected. And if I uncheck it it remains un corrected.
Then if I click on the text again it corrects it again. But if I try to save (or make any other changes), it reverts back to the uncorrected version.
Try this. Go to "Lightroom > Preferences > Performance" and make sure to DISABLE the "Use Graphics Processor" option. (The graphics processor acceleration can cause issues, both with Lightroom itself and plugins). Can you see if that fixes your issue?
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-31-2018   #37
FujiLove
Registered User
 
FujiLove is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 578
Here's a comparison of Negative Lab Pro versus Adrian Gabor's CN Scan Inversion Photoshop plugin (http://eigakai.ro/ps-action/cn-scan-inversion) using a flatbed RAW scan.

This is a RAW scan of a Portra 400 negative, using Vuescan and an Epson v550. The file was tagged with an Adobe RGB colour profile.

First up, the NLP linear conversion. The standard conversion was a bit too contrasty, hence I'm showing the linear version here:







And here's how it looks with autocolor switched on:







Next, I opened up the same scan in Photoshop, and assigned the Adobe RGB colour space (note: assigned, not converted):





This is the straight conversion using Adrian's plugin:







My thoughts:

I realise this is an unfair comparison, because NLP isn't yet designed to work with RAW flatbed scans. It's also worth says that NLP is way more convenient to use being integrated with Lightroom and non-destructive.

Having said that, I much prefer the out-of-the-box colours generated by Adrian's plugin over NLP. They are closer to what I remember seeing when sat in that Barcelona bar, particularly the colour of the green tiles below the bar. It's warmer, more saturated, and for me, would be a better starting point to create the final image.

NLP's curves seem to pick out more detail in the shadows and generally gives a much lighter 'airy' look.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-31-2018   #38
mod2001
Old school modernist
 
mod2001 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Barcelona/Catalunya
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujiLove View Post
They are closer to what I remember seeing when sat in that Barcelona bar,

Remember which bar? I can check which of both conversions is closer

Juergen
__________________
Nikon F3 / Nikkor 50mm/f1.2 AIS / Nikkor 28mm/f2.0 AIS / Black Contax T3
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-31-2018   #39
firstnate
Registered User
 
firstnate is offline
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 14
Thanks for the images and comparisons, Fujilove!

Yes, once I have better scanner calibrations, this should improve. I also need to make some videos and guides showing more about preferred options during scanning.

Part of the power of NLP is that it is about WAY more than just the initial conversion, because it gives you the ability to edit it to exactly the way you'd like it. I plan on adding the ability to "save profiles" too so you can save your preferred starting settings.

A few tips if you want to get similar results with NLP to what you are currently using:

1) Set "pre-saturation" to 5... the other options are reducing saturation to compensate for effect of contrast. Since you are using linear profile, there is no contrast added, so you will end up with desaturated images if less than 5 (I recognize this isn't intuitive... working on a way to make this simply).

2. Pull down the "midtones" quite substantially to add depth to the scenes (instead of the "bright and air" look Portra naturally tends towards). You can also experiment with pulling down the blacks and shadows a bit.

3. It looks like Auto-Color has overcorrected the scene... I would suggest leaving off in this case (or changing strength of auto-color to something like 10-25%), and making further adjustments to color balance in the color balance section.

Just posted a video to YouTube showing in-depth how to think about and use the controls (are youtube links allowed here?) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY8aow54Uyw

And if you have any scans you are having trouble with in NLP, feel free to send to me at nate @ natephotographic.com and I will take a look!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-31-2018   #40
FujiLove
Registered User
 
FujiLove is offline
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by mod2001 View Post
Remember which bar? I can check which of both conversions is closer

Juergen

I've no idea. After several Cavas, they all merged into one
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 16:41.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.