Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Coffee With Mentors > Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks is a well known photographic writer, author of The Rangefinder Book, over three dozen other photographic books, and a frequent contributor to Shutterbug and Amateur Photographer. Unusually in today's photographic world, most of his camera reviews are film cameras, especially rangefinders. See www.rogerandfrances.com for further background (Frances is his wife Frances Schultz, acknowledged darkroom addict and fellow Shutterbug contributor) .


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

A picture not taken
Old 04-19-2018   #1
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
A picture not taken

How often have you seen something that would make a meaningful photograph, at least to you, and then consciously decided not to take it, because the memory would be worth more than the photograph? Or (perhaps) because you weren't sure you could get the picture you really wanted?

To use a somewhat pretentious metaphor, taking a picture is a bit like Schroedinger's Cat: the picture collapses the waveform, and shows you exactly what is happening. Until you open the box/ take the picture, the possibilities are far wider.

Are pictures inferior to memories? If so, why do we take them?

There's a (free) essay about this at https://www.patreon.com/rogerandfrances . You don't have to read it in order to answer the questions, but you might find that it gives you some ideas. Sorry about the structure of the Patreon site but it doesn't take long to navigate and right now (Thursday 19th April) it's the newest piece there.

Those who object to my linking to free material on my various sites are advised simply not to click on the link. As I say, you don't need to, just to think about/ answer the questions given above.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #2
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,009
I don't photograph to memorialize memories... I let my wife do that and I'm content with her snaps. I'm only interested in photography as art personally.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #3
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I don't photograph to memorialize memories... I let my wife do that and I'm content with her snaps. I'm only interested in photography as art personally.
Indeed. But photography is not the only art. And sometimes, "art" is not worth the film it's recorded on.

By the latter, I'm not saying that there's any absolute standard for "art". I'm just suggesting that sometimes, letting an idea ferment in our memories can be worth more than taking a picture. That's where the "art" of photography can be well served by not taking a picture; by learning without shooting. As I say, a picture would have "collapsed the waveform".

If I wanted an "art" version of the image described in the essay, I think I'd pretty much have to reconstruct it with a professional model, or at least with a model who knew she was being photographed; and the "reconstruction" would owe at least as much to what I describe in the essay as to what was there that afternoon. In fact, it might be quite an interesting short series to construct; but probably more hassle than it's worth.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #4
MCTuomey
Registered User
 
MCTuomey's Avatar
 
MCTuomey is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: U.S.
Age: 65
Posts: 3,310
The times I have decided against a photo have typically been out of a sense that taking one at that particular moment would not be respectful. Nothing to do with whether to memorialize or the worthiness of the envisioned photo as art.
__________________
--Mike

My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #5
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
The times I have decided against a photo have typically been out of a sense that taking one at that particular moment would not be respectful. Nothing to do with whether to memorialize or the worthiness of the envisioned photo as art.
Dear Mike,

Yes, another good reason. And one that was far from irrelevant in the word-picture described.

A further thought. Do you find that you have become more respectful/ sensitive as you have grown older? I certainly have. I don't think I've photographed a tramp since my 20s (though "the homeless" today are not the same as the "tramps" of 40 years ago). But the girl in the picture I didn't take was probably 11, with the vast majority (one hopes) of her life in front of her. There are clearly different kinds of respect or sensibility.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #6
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
 
p.giannakis's Avatar
 
p.giannakis is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Stafford - UK
Posts: 2,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post

Are pictures inferior to memories? If so, why do we take them?
If anything, I trust my pictures more than i trust my memory. My memory tends to idealise or play down something i heard/saw/experienced depending on how i feel, a picture is more unambiguous, once fixed on paper it is what it is. I would not not take a picture out of fear of not matching my fantasy about it (although i might be disappointed if it is less of what i expected it to be).
__________________
Regards,
Pan


The Monochrome Archives
Instagram



  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #7
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,508
I often not photograph everything memorizable. I memorize strange things and often.
Then I was teen my relative told me what I look around like I'm taking the pictures...
I often not take photos, but drawn into observation. I have camera on me, ready, but I'm so drawn in observation...

I never sure if I could get the picture I really wanted. Some memorable things I observe require my close presence to get the picture I really wanted. Like 20mm lens (which I don't even have) at one meter distance.
Those who are able to do it this are recognized as successful street and documentary photographers.

To summarize, many of the memorizable and meanful things I see are not taken by me, because I'm astonished with observation or I'm not confident to get close.


For inner side, with digital image taking I become very dedicated to take family moments. Before this, we did it on video, but film was few rolls per year.
Film only era for me was 99% of taking it into memory, too lazy to take it on film .
I never learned film photography because process was to cumbersome to me. Only in 2012 I finally did, because I learned with digital what ISO, aperture and shutter speed are...
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #8
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
If anything, I trust my pictures more than i trust my memory. My memory tends to idealise or play down something i heard/saw/experienced depending on how i feel, a picture is more unambiguous, once fixed on paper it is what it is. I would not not take a picture out of fear of not matching my fantasy about it (although i might be disappointed if it is less of what i expected it to be).
Dear Pan,

Indeed. There are many reasons. Or are they excuses? And how do we disentangle them? That's why I wanted as many reactions as possible. Thanks.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #9
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I often not photograph everything memorizable. I memorize strange things and often.
. . .
Exactly. Should we all do this more often? And, of course, what is "memorizable"? How do we memorize things? Why? Are we as honest with ourselves as you appear to be in your post? There are always more questions than answers; except, perhaps, for those that are scared of both questions and answers.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #10
mynikonf2
OEM
 
mynikonf2's Avatar
 
mynikonf2 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: ...resident of the Virgo Galactic Supercluster +/-
Age: 68
Posts: 653
Lately I find myself choosing to be a participant rather than the observer of my life. Not sure if this is due to where I find myself in this journey now that I am experiencing some significant health issues, (currently awaiting a liver transplant). This has rearranged my priorities & altered my perspective. Facing your mortality can be very sobering yet driven by this I have found a new freedom of expression. I find that I embrace the opportunity of sharing in the moment whether be a simple conversation or my efforts to capture these on film...
__________________
Mike Blache'
N.H.S. member

“Light scratches consistent with age and wear”


  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #11
Dogman
Registered User
 
Dogman is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,521
When I don't take pictures it's usually because of my slothfulness.

But I don't do photos for memory's sake, although many times a photo will stir up memories associated with the moment, subject or place. I like creating art even if no one else other than myself might ever appreciate it. Mainly I'm just muddling through, using a camera to gain some sense of accomplishment while I do so.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #12
Timmyjoe
Registered User
 
Timmyjoe's Avatar
 
Timmyjoe is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,028
Two things. First, I used to photograph motor racing. There is a huge market for "crash pics" in motor racing. I wouldn't shoot them. The idea of making money off of someone's pain and suffering, and possibly death, really rubbed me the wrong way.

Second, I definitely photograph certain things to memorialize them, for myself. Grew up in a weird situation where as a child parents all around me were dying, including one of my own. By the time I was 13, the mom next door had died, the mom across the street had died, the dad across the street had died, and my own father had died. In a strange way, a part of photography for me has always been trying to hang on to things, particularly people.

So there you go.

Best,
-Tim
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #13
charjohncarter
Registered User
 
charjohncarter's Avatar
 
charjohncarter is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Danville, CA, USA
Posts: 8,820
I read your story and enjoyed it, and you make a good point. I like my snapshots, but I also like my shots that are really just ego builders.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #14
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
How often have you seen something that would make a meaningful photograph, at least to you, and then consciously decided not to take it, because the memory would be worth more than the photograph? Or (perhaps) because you weren't sure you could get the picture you really wanted?
No to the first question. I can't say the thought ever crossed my mind. Yes to the second question. If I can't get the photograph I want, I don't take it. Why would I?
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #15
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
No to the first question; yes to the second.
Been there: done that; or perhaps, failed to do that, or chosen to do that. The question is this (and it is far from simple): why do we take, or not take, pictures? Yes and no may suffice for the forum; but I at least find it hard not to think about why we give those answers. Hence the essay.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #16
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter View Post
I read your story and enjoyed it, and you make a good point. I like my snapshots, but I also like my shots that are really just ego builders.
Dear John,

The whole idea of ego building may provoke another piece. Thanks!

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #17
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
Two things. First, I used to photograph motor racing. There is a huge market for "crash pics" in motor racing. I wouldn't shoot them. The idea of making money off of someone's pain and suffering, and possibly death, really rubbed me the wrong way.

Second, I definitely photograph certain things to memorialize them, for myself. Grew up in a weird situation where as a child parents all around me were dying, including one of my own. By the time I was 13, the mom next door had died, the mom across the street had died, the dad across the street had died, and my own father had died. In a strange way, a part of photography for me has always been trying to hang on to things, particularly people.

So there you go.

Best,
-Tim
Dear Tim,

Thank you. This is an important point that I addressed only obliquely in the essay. My own childhood and adolescence was ceaseless change. How far do I try to "freeze" things with photography?

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #18
shimokita
白黒
 
shimokita's Avatar
 
shimokita is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Japan, Tokyo
Posts: 818
What I believe is meaningful and what I photograph naturally has changed over the years. Today what I feel to be meaningful includes a much large range of subjects, situations, etc. and in a twist I tend to be more selective about what ends up on film.

Memory seemingly being at the whim of advanced age maybe it's not surprising that I now tend to photograph images that resonate with some aspect of my youth and/or themes that I photographed when I was younger. Sometimes repeating what I remember about what I liked...

Within an ethical framework I can't think of a subject that I wouldn't photograph, but there are some situations where I wouldn't share the photo or share it selectively.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #19
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
To mynikonF2 and dogman: sorry, it's well gone midnight. I'm too tired to reply to everyone, even though your points are well worthy of exploration.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #20
besk
Registered User
 
besk is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Carolina (USA)
Posts: 458
I deeply regret not photographing some of the events in my life or my loved ones because I didn't want to disturb the "flow" of the event or I because I wasn't familiar enough with the camera to get a shot off in a timely way. (Just writing the later says something about the number of times I have switched camera systems.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #21
zuiko85
Registered User
 
zuiko85 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,975
Yeah, more now than when I was younger. I'd be busy trying to get a beautiful sunset or rainbow or whatever and the missus would be elbowing me. "Your missing it! Can't you just enjoy it with your eyes and your memory?"
She was right of course, most, (that means about 100%) of my efforts failed.
Oh well, I'm a little, but just a little, wiser now.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #22
oculus
Registered User
 
oculus is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 27
One of the many powers of a photograph is its being able to communicate a memory. Without getting into endless hermeneutical questions, I might say simply that what the lens sees at that fraction of a second makes a moment stand still in a way in which our memories do not stand still. All things are in flux, said the ancients. Well, our memory of a moment may remain the same, but surely we ourselves change and as we revisit a photograph we see sometimes how we've changed. The photograph (as any revisited text; but especially the photograph, I think) is frozen and preserved and, counterintuitively perhaps, is a standard by which we discern our own flux.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #23
charjohncarter
Registered User
 
charjohncarter's Avatar
 
charjohncarter is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Danville, CA, USA
Posts: 8,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Dear John,

The whole idea of ego building may provoke another piece. Thanks!

Cheers,

R.
That is why I keep taking photos, best wishes to you and Frances. You got me to read my favorite technical book again 'Perfect Exposure.'
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #24
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Indeed. But photography is not the only art. And sometimes, "art" is not worth the film it's recorded on.
I understand... I was just saying why I photograph personally is for trying to make art and because it helps my mental health. It wasn't a pretentious statement at all... but more a long the lines of that I choose to experience when I'm not with my camera and when I have my camera its because I'm trying to work on my projects.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #25
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 71
Posts: 2,555
I must have quite a few pictures not taken as I have a lot of unexposed film here!
__________________
I make photographs as a return ticket to a moment otherwise gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-19-2018   #26
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,627
Here's one I didn't take about four months ago:































__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #27
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
 
Sumarongi's Avatar
 
Sumarongi is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
How often have you seen something that would make a meaningful photograph, at least to you, and then consciously decided not to take it, because the memory would be worth more than the photograph? Or (perhaps) because you weren't sure you could get the picture you really wanted?
Often! E.g., when I was attending postmortem examinations as a student -- the professors admitted only certain students taking photographs (I was one of them), nevertheless I took none. Reason: It would have felt pornographic, in a sense.
__________________
**Any feature is a bug unless it can be turned off.** (Daniel Bell Heuer's Law.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #28
grouchos_tash
Registered User
 
grouchos_tash's Avatar
 
grouchos_tash is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NE England
Posts: 522
I regret not taking as many pictures of my family and life in general when I was in my teens/twenties. I try to take pictures of the day to day of my life as it is now as a archive for the future. I love looking back at old photos and if I don't take any then I can't do that! Whether they're good photos or not doesn't have much to do with it I suppose.

I decided recently that unlike many people my age and younger, I don't have many pictures of myself, my parents haven't taken photos since they got a digital camera as they all just sit on a the camera never to be seen again anyway. I've decided to start a self portrait project
__________________
Gary

flickr

www.garyharding.website
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #29
Bike Tourist
Registered User
 
Bike Tourist's Avatar
 
Bike Tourist is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central California
Age: 83
Posts: 1,231
Or, speeding by a promising scene in your car because you were in a hurry to get to your destination. Then, damn! Why didn't I stop to get that? It'll never be the same again.
__________________
Dick Thornton

Stock Portfolio:
http://www.shutterstock.com/g/biketourist
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #30
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 6,261
There have been many times I've lined up a shot, only to realize there is no way the camera, in its two dimensional way, could ever capture just what I was experiencing at that moment. The warmth of the sun as it breaks through a crack in the clouds. The chill in the air, or the fragrant smells of Spring. That light breeze, or brisk wind. The sound of trees creaking in the wind, or peepers in the early evening.

The camera may enable me to reconstruct those memories in the image it captures, but can it convey to the random viewer the same feelings? I think not. You only get an indication of certain conditions, but never the whole experience. One can surmise by what they see in the image, and build in their own minds what it might have been like for the photographer, but they can never reconstruct the scene as completely as the person who took the photo.

It's when such a realization creeps into my thoughts that I just lower the camera, and let it all sink in. And hope my memory doesn't fade away too soon.

PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #31
charjohncarter
Registered User
 
charjohncarter's Avatar
 
charjohncarter is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Danville, CA, USA
Posts: 8,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Tourist View Post
Or, speeding by a promising scene in your car because you were in a hurry to get to your destination. Then, damn! Why didn't I stop to get that? It'll never be the same again.
That is me too. I drive by your neighborhood a lot (I-5), I always want to go to those valley towns. I did once and it was great, have to do it again.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #32
mich rassena
Registered User
 
mich rassena is offline
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 245
I'm not sure why people assume that photography diminishes one's experience or corrupts it. I've found the photos I've taken, even of the most basic things, to be as evocative as smells or songs. Whole periods of my life would be lost without the photographs acting as a catalyst.

I've found photography aids in the act of observation. The focus it requires allows me to savor the moment as I experience it, and is a snapshot of my mental landscape as well as the literal landscape.

Oculus said it better upthread...
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #33
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by mich rassena View Post
I'm not sure why people assume that photography diminishes one's experience or corrupts it. I've found the photos I've taken, even of the most basic things, to be as evocative as smells or songs. Whole periods of my life would be lost without the photographs acting as a catalyst.

I've found photography aids in the act of observation. The focus it requires allows me to savor the moment as I experience it, and is a snapshot of my mental landscape as well as the literal landscape.

Oculus said it better upthread...
Dear Mich,

This is often true, but I was surprised by the extent to which a photograph not taken -- or at least, not recorded with a camera -- could go beyond observation into reflection.

I wonder how many of those responding to this thread read the essay.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #34
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
I wonder how many of those responding to this thread read the essay.
I didn't read your article, particularly now that you have monetized your website through Paetreon.
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

No photos, no memories
Old 04-20-2018   #35
KenR
Registered User
 
KenR is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 696
No photos, no memories

I went to Rocky Mountain National Park some years ago and on the first day my camera broke. I was rather angry and upset for the rest of the trip that I didn't have a camera to photograph the amazing scenery. That it all I remember of the trip, I do not recall any of the actual hikes that I did or places that I saw. I am not sure whether it was not having a viewfinder to look through or my frustration at not having a camera to use that caused this memory washout. But it real and almost total.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #36
helenhill
Mod chasing Shadows Light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 5,635
we have all done it...

A picture not taken
A word not spoken
A deed not done
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
To the question "what are you after"
I respond: The Moment...The Memory of what Once was
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #37
johnf04
Registered User
 
johnf04 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Age: 69
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I didn't read your article, particularly now that you have monetized your website through Paetreon.
This particular article is free.
  Reply With Quote

More times than I care to remember Roger
Old 04-20-2018   #38
Tim Murphy
Registered User
 
Tim Murphy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 390
More times than I care to remember Roger

Dear Roger,

I enjoy photography, but I am not a photographer. And I am most certainly not an artist.

I shoot wildlife and nature almost exclusively. When called upon I can do a satisfactory job of recording a family event and even get some candid shots that draw praise from even most critical family members.

Given my photographic preferences it's easy to see why I don't always shoot even when ready. To me the just seeing what I saw counts for so much. I do try on occasion and I do sometimes succeed.

It all boils down to this to me, getting outside and seeing the beauty of nature at work does the job for me. If I stumble upon something worthwhile when I have a camera in hand I accept it as the bonus that it truly is.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA
__________________
Then the coal company came with the world's largest shovel
And they tortured the timber and stripped all the land
Well, they dug for their coal till the land was forsaken
Then they wrote it all down as the progress of man.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #39
Contarama
Registered User
 
Contarama is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,250
When I first started the hobby I snapped away at everything all the time. Now not so much. I see differently now? Interesting topic. It also reminds me of that line in The Secret Life of Walter Mitty with Sean Penn.
__________________
Art is the ability to make something...even if it is a big mess...
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-2018   #40
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 6,261
Went back and read the article, Roger. I'd meant to the first time, but thought I had correctly surmised your meaning from what you posted here.

I wasn't even close, but then my memory is not as good as yours.

Nor did I have as many girlfriends.

PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 17:51.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.