Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Coffee With Mentors > Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks is a well known photographic writer, author of The Rangefinder Book, over three dozen other photographic books, and a frequent contributor to Shutterbug and Amateur Photographer. Unusually in today's photographic world, most of his camera reviews are film cameras, especially rangefinders. See www.rogerandfrances.com for further background (Frances is his wife Frances Schultz, acknowledged darkroom addict and fellow Shutterbug contributor) .


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 08-20-2017   #41
c.poulton
Registered User
 
c.poulton's Avatar
 
c.poulton is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: London
Age: 53
Posts: 758
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Set in a post Brexit Britain. Next up on the .eu site will however be another photography piece (as was the previous one, about a scrap Linhof).

Surprisingly few people realize that there have been two Anglo-Cornish wars since the late 15th century, and that Cornish armies invaded England. The first time we got as far as London; the second, only as far as Exeter.
Hi Roger, I live in Blackheath and never know that a Cornish Army had encamped there before the Battle of Deptford Bridge! Fascinating... BTW I liked the short story.
__________________
Christian

My Gallery
My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #42
c.poulton
Registered User
 
c.poulton's Avatar
 
c.poulton is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: London
Age: 53
Posts: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
I am a U.K. citizen,aged 77 years, born and bred in England and I have fully detailed English family history going back to the 15th Century.
Cornwall is an English county,not a separate country, and will remain so.
When the recent referendum was put to the people of the U.K. the peoples choice was that we should leave the European Union.
It's no use and very unhelpful for non-domiciles like Roger Hick's living in France or anyone who has chosen to live in the E.U.rather than the U.K., like Roger Hick's, to keep harping on and hoping Brexit doesn't happen.
I can assure him that should the peoples choice not be carried through then there will be a great backlash which could damage the peoples idea of "democracy" completely.
The Nation voted to LEAVE the European Union and it should be carried through.
We can return the U.K.to the country it was before we joined the "Common Market" (which was not then a "European Union"), a country that residents loved, protecting our own borders, making the English Parliament's law supreme, and trading with the rest of the world without having to ask a (Federal) European Unions permission.
I'm not going to waste further words on the whole legality of the referendum, which was only advisory BTW, but once the veil of lies, deceit and economic hardship has been fully lifted the British public will realise that they've been sold a pup. Either a 2nd (3rd?) referendum or a GE to finally put this whole wasteful affair to bed.

The idea of a Federal Europe isn't new or indeed a bad thing. Churchill himself was a great advocate and in the last years of his life was keen for us to join the, as it was then, European Economic Community.
__________________
Christian

My Gallery
My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #43
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
c.poulton
You sound like a typical "Moaning Losing Remainer" who cannot accept the majority result of the Referendum.

********The UNITED KINGDOM voted to LEAVE the European Union and it should be carried through*********
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #44
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbiemer View Post
Nice story, Roger.
A bit surprised to see "UBI" coming up again in this thread as this story doesn't seem, to me, to have anything to do with that...

It has, though, so I will post this here instead of the other thread.

I see one ubiquitous assumption from most folks objecting to UBI: the idea that they will still be working while everyone else will be living off their labor.
Kind of misses the point. Which is that effectively all jobs will be automated/computerized/robot-ized. People have this idea that "my job is so complicated or important" that it can't be automated. So, I will be working while all "you other" people with "lesser" jobs will be out of luck.
I do think we are a little bit ahead of what will happen but, sooner rather than later, there won't be any work for pay--the employers are and will be looking to replace all of us as quickly as they can. The machines will be self repairing and self designing. What we will be able to do, I fervently hope, will be to have the means and will to use that freedom from wage labor to explore and improve how we treat each other. To find that(or those) thing that does make us each happy, and that will add to our shared world.

Rob
Dear Rob,

I brought UBI up as another example of charjohncarter's world view; as one of the other things he can't/won't understand. Your highlighting sums up such objections very well.

You and Tin are of course quite right, and things are not improved by taxing labour while giving tax relief on buying robots.

Work is unlikely to disappear entirely, though. Some things are very hard to automate, such as looking after people with dementia, or indeed producing entertainment. The CGI part is easy enough but the scripting and storyboarding aren't though (some shows do look a bit robotic).

My cynical suspicion is that it's probably easiest/most cost effective to replace entertainment with drugs (Soma, cf. Scrambler's point about the Brave New World). This would of course atomize society still more, arguably to the point where we'd cease to be human, but hey, that's a small price to pay from a rentier's point of view.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #45
valdas
Registered User
 
valdas is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,429
we all can argue about politics, we have different political views, different values... and therefore we won't agree on something that is based on our values. we can only talk (and agree) about facts. which is:

- GBP is down. very bad for Roger's pension, good for EU buyers shopping in UK.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #46
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
we all can argue about politics, we have different political views, different values... and therefore we won't agree on something that is based on our values. we can only talk (and agree) about facts. which is:

- GBP is down. very bad for Roger's pension, good for EU buyers shopping in UK.
Also bad for anyone in the UK who wants to buy imported goods, or oil (= fuel, plastics...).

Another fact, unfortunately, is that the Brexiteers are trying to strip me (along with millions of other people) of my European citizenship.

These are facts, not political views.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #47
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
c.poulton
You sound like a typical "Moaning Losing Remainer" who cannot accept the majority result of the Referendum.
And you sound like a typical "moaning losing Brexiteer" who refused to accept the majority result of the original referendum when the UK voted to join the Common Market.

You also fit the demographic of the elderly who are poisoning their children's and grandchildren's future. If you live to 100, you have only 13 years of the disaster that Brexit will be (it it happens, which is looking less and less likely). Why do you think that the young voted Remain?

Two questions:

First, how has EU membership adversely affected YOU, personally?

Second, can you name any concrete advantage to Brexit? Not woo about "sovereignty" and "taking back control" but hard financial or social advantages.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #48
valdas
Registered User
 
valdas is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Also bad for anyone in the UK who wants to buy imported goods, or oil (= fuel, plastics...).

Another fact, unfortunately, is that the Brexiteers are trying to strip me (along with millions of other people) of my European citizenship.

These are facts, not political views.

Cheers,

R.
Yes, I am really sorry about the citizenship thing... As to imported goods getting more expensive in UK (and UK holidaymakers having less cash to spend is Spain) - yes, it is a fact. Good or bad? Depends on your values - some would say - "we told you so, now eat it, it's a good lesson". But really sorry for those that wanted to stay...
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #49
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by c.poulton View Post
Hi Roger, I live in Blackheath and never know that a Cornish Army had encamped there before the Battle of Deptford Bridge! Fascinating... BTW I liked the short story.
Yes, it is fascinating, isn't it? I had long known about the 1549 war but I only learned about the 1497 war fairly recently. It's a classic case of the victors writing history.

Something that greatly amuses me is Little Englanders who howl and whine about England being part of the EU and then fail to see the inconsistency when it is pointed out to them that formerly independent countries might like a greater degree of autonomy too.

Until Brexit, I used to say, "My country was invaded by the English long ago -- thank God, because Cornwall is too small to survive as an independent country." But now I suspect that Cornwall might do better as an independent country and an independent member of the EU: hence the story. I had long envisioned power moving up, to a European Union, and down, to the regions, rather than going back to faded nation states.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #50
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
. . . some would say - "we told you so, now eat it, it's a good lesson". But really sorry for those that wanted to stay...
Indeed. The trouble is that many of us knew what would happen (and has already begun to happen), and we are being punished the same way as those who volunteered for the punishment.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #51
Yokosuka_Mike
The Beat Goes On
 
Yokosuka_Mike's Avatar
 
Yokosuka_Mike is offline
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Age: 64
Posts: 2,376
Damn... I didn't think that this kind of place was that kind of place. I thought that this was a "take your political $hit outside" kind of place. Oh well, the world sucks if you let it.
__________________
I long for the days of simple rights and wrongs, when a handshake meant something and all the Cowboys could sing a song.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #52
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 68
Posts: 4,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
c.poulton
You sound like a typical "Moaning Losing Remainer" who cannot accept the majority result of the Referendum.
Well said ....
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #53
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
Thank you Michael, we are both of the same opinion.
The sooner we leave the "Shakels" of the European Union the better.

*The UNITED KINGDOM voted to LEAVE the European Union and it should be carried through no matter what the "moaning Remainers" and "NON -Domiciles" say.
The LEAVERS won the REFERENDUM with a 3.8% MAJORITY *********
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #54
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
And you sound like a typical "moaning losing Brexiteer" who refused to accept the majority result of the original referendum when the UK voted to join the Common Market.
We did accept the majority result of original referendum which was to join "the COMMON MARKET", which was a trading market for our British goods.
We didn't vote for the "COMMON MARKET" that has become the "EUROPEAN UNION" that takes away the sovereignty of our own parliament and makes the laws that govern our lives and tells us what we can and cannot do, and over-rides even our own judicial court decisions.
All we voted for originally was for a "Common Market" to trade our goods and services.

*The UNITED KINGDOM has now voted to LEAVE the European Union and it should be carried through no matter what the "moaning Remainers" and "NON -Domiciles" say.
The LEAVERS won the REFERENDUM with a 3.8% MAJORITY *
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #55
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbiemer View Post
Which is that effectively all jobs will be automated/computerized/robot-ized. People have this idea that "my job is so complicated or important" that it can't be automated. So, I will be working while all "you other" people with "lesser" jobs will be out of luck.
Pity the poor souls that will actually have to work to build the robots, or build the robots that build the robots, or build the robots that build the robots that build the robots.... I think it will be a while before everyone quits their day jobs.
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #56
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Indeed. The trouble is that many of us knew what would happen (and has already begun to happen), and we are being punished the same way as those who volunteered for the punishment.
Ah, the old tyranny of the majority argument. If you don't like being a U.K. citizen, you have choices. Do you value your government check more than your European citizenship, or vice versa?
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #57
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
The LEAVERS won the REFERENDUM with a 4 MILLION MAJORITY *
Leave the European Union 17,410,742 51.89
Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241 48.11

Same way of counting as the 350 million a week that they now can't find...
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #58
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the empire is no more. You can be part of the EU or become the 51-th state. The other option is to become a third world country. The global economy is a fact whether you like it or not. Britannia doesn't rule the waves anymore. You got an aircraft carrier without planes, the class 45 (or what's left of it) isn't much either. The aircraft industry is gone. Railway... same, stuck in the 19-th century. Automobile industry was never much good after the initial peak (anyone recall the reliability of Lucas parts? Came from the wettest part of the western world and wouldn't work if it was a tiny bit wet).

The day you realise the mistake and want to come back, we will impose the euro, metric units and driving at the right side of the road, no exceptions at all. All to be implemented in 1 month.
I presume you are not of British origin but perhaps of Spanish origin especially with your "SPANIK" ID.
You only criticise everything and anything British.
It is no wonder that you are ALL for the European Union.
If you live in the U.K. and don't like it you are free to go home the sooner the better.
If you are living outside the U.K. it's non of your business that we have decided to leave the E.U.
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #59
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Ah, the old tyranny of the majority argument. If you don't like being a U.K. citizen, you have choices. Do you value your government check more than your European citizenship, or vice versa?
Unfortunately I have this terrible weakness of needing to eat. I moved here under the entirely reasonable assumption that my pension (and indeed my UK earnings) were not incompatible with exercising my rights as a citizen of Europe.

What am I supposed to live on? Or should I move back to the increasingly-less-United Kingdom and become a burden upon the state?

Overall, I probably value my European citizenship more, as I suspect that France will be less inclined to let me fall into penury.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #60
valdas
Registered User
 
valdas is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
I presume you are not of British origin but perhaps of Spanish origin especially with your "SPANIK" ID.

Now I am intrigued about "Bar8barian" ID
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #61
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,425
LOL, my ID has to do with beer... I'm not from the UK, grant you that. But I do follow quite a lot of UK websites due to both hobby and professional interests. Also my upbringing tought me a bit of history while my education and experience with managers make me spot BS (political or other) from far away. Also my maths are good enough to know that (17 and a half million) minus (16 and a bit million) is far from 4 million.

You could say that I do like facts. So I just wonder if you could give any examples of what you claim in your previous posts.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #62
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
Leave the European Union 17,410,742 51.89
Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241 48.11

Same way of counting as the 350 million a week that they now can't find...
Bloody FACTS again! You know that Leavers are not strong on facts.

I repeat my earlier request to the barbarian. Please elucidate the following:

1: How has membership of the EU adversely affected you personally?

2: Name one concrete, actual benefit of leaving the EU. Not woo about sovereignty and taking back control, but actual financial advantages or increases in personal freedom and rights.

No-one has yet taken up either challenge, which I have repeated quite often. I wonder why.

I know this sails close to this site's antipathy to politics, but equally, I am fascinated by the opportunity to interact with people who are not, by their own choices, locked into some form of echo chamber. Here, we are united by our love of photography: we can have different political views. Also, I'd suggest that we can argue facts rather than politics. In what sense is a weak currency an advantage to the inhabitants (and pensioners) of that country?

My (perhaps vain) hope is that some people have a slightly wider field of view than the relative advantages of different versions of good or very good lenses. For those who haven't, well, I propose http://rogerandfrances.eu/photography/intro-photo . Stick with that. But don't pretend that it's all that matters in the world.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #63
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
. . . You could say that I do like facts. So I just wonder if you could give any examples of what you claim in your previous posts.
Quite. See post 62.

But you sound foreign, and are therefore subhuman, at least from the viewpoint of someone whose ancestors moved to their present location before yours did. Heaven forfend that you should move from the village in which you were born to anywhere else!

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #64
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
Now I am intrigued about "Bar8barian" ID
Well, the "barbarian" invasions of Rome spanned at least a couple of centuries, but it is widely agreed that the Roman Empire was overextended and living on past glories, while being unable to adjust to new realities.

Where in the 21st century corresponds to that model? I have no doubt that there were Goths, Visigoths, etc., who claimed to be the True Heritors of Rome.

My excuse for promoting the original story on this site is that neither photographs nor stories are truly objective. We choose what we shoot; we choose what we write about. We can learn a lot about our fellow citizens (of the world) by looking at what they focus upon. If it's swans and sunsets, or the usually imperceptible differences between a dozen different lenses presented as low-resolution images on a computer screen; well, that tells us a lot too.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #65
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Unfortunately I have this terrible weakness of needing to eat. I moved here under the entirely reasonable assumption that my pension (and indeed my UK earnings) were not incompatible with exercising my rights as a citizen of Europe.

What am I supposed to live on? Or should I move back to the increasingly-less-United Kingdom and become a burden upon the state?

Overall, I probably value my European citizenship more, as I suspect that France will be less inclined to let me fall into penury.

Cheers,

R.
You made the choice and took the risk to live outside of the UK in France, so you can't blame your loss of income on the current low pound.All currency's can go up or down, the EURO went through a rocky time recently and can do so again especially when the U.K leaves after paying one of the largest contributions to the E.U. budget.It only needs Greece, Italy or Spain to get into financial difficulties and the value of the Euro will be in trouble again.That's why we in the U.K.are very lucky to have kept out of using the EURO, anything can happen in the future uncertainties.
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #66
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
You made the choice and took the risk to live outside of the UK in France, so you can't blame your loss of income on the current low pound.All currency's can go up or down, the EURO went through a rocky time recently and can do so again especially when the U.K leaves after paying one of the largest contributions to the E.U. budget.It only needs Greece, Italy or Spain to get into financial difficulties and the value of the Euro will be in trouble again.That's why we in the U.K.are very lucky to have kept out of using the EURO, anything can happen in the future uncertainties.
Not really. There are rational choices and irrational choices. Yes, I CAN blame my loss of income on the current low pound. Why else would it have declined? Weak pound = lower income. Or have you some form of Brexit mathematics that transcends this?

Or are you saying that the current low pound has nothing to do with the decline of my pension and the rising cost of imports to the UK? You know: things like oil and food. Or are you denying it is Brexit-linked?

Incidentally it's currencies, not currency's. Plural and possessive, you know. As you are 77 I'm surprised you didn't learn this at school.

Once again I repeat my request:

1: How has membership of the EU adversely affected you personally?

2: Name one concrete, actual benefit of leaving the EU. Not woo about sovereignty and taking back control, but actual financial advantages or increases in personal freedom and rights.

Until you reply, I will assume that you have no answer.

Cheers,

R.l
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #67
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Overall, I probably value my European citizenship more, as I suspect that France will be less inclined to let me fall into penury.
Do you currently have a carte de sejour or a carte de resident?
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #68
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Do you currently have a carte de resident?
No, nor have I needed one. Nor shall I need one unless Brexit steals my European citizenship. I had a carte de séjour but let it lapse on official French advice: as they pointed out, I didn't need it.

I have no great fear of not being granted permanent residency, with the backing of the local Mayor and the local Deputé. But what was your point?

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #69
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
********The UNITED KINGDOM voted to LEAVE the European Union and it should be carried through*********
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #70
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 68
Posts: 4,177
People from somewhere v people from anywhere.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #71
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
But what was your point?
Curiosity only
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #72
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 68
Posts: 4,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
Roger Hicks,

As for your point about my spelling- as you say"Incidentally it's currencies, not currency's. Plural and possessive, you know. As you are 77 I'm surprised you didn't learn this at school."
I possibly did, but presently suffering and in pain from two types of cancer - spelling is not a priority for me.

Its disappointing that that the old spelling /grammar ploy has been deployed so early in the discussion.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #73
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
Roger Hicks,

1)You will just have to accept that there are many reasons that membership of the E.U. as adversely affected us and that is why we have chosen to leave the E.U. That is as much as I am prepared to say. Take it or leave it.. . .
Indeed, it's all you CAN say. You have no arguments. Why on earth should I or anyone else anyone accept your unsupported statements? As I have asked twice before, please provide a single example of how EU membership has affected you adversely, or any concrete way in which leaving the EU will benefit the vast majority of the UK population.

I am very sorry to hear about your cancer -- probably more sorry than you can imagine -- but equally, I re-read what I have written and usually spot errors. Not always, it's true. But if you start on the "older and wiser" path, it's generally as well to provide evidence of the "wiser" as well as the "older".

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #74
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
Roger, I couldn't care whether you or anyone else accept my unsupported statements?
I don't have to justify my statements to anybody.
All I am interested in is that we leave the E.U. as soon as possible, the quicker the better, come what may.
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #75
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar8barian View Post
Roger, I couldn't care whether you or anyone else accept my unsupported statements?
I don't have to justify my statements to anybody.
All I am interested in is that we leave the E.U. as soon as possible, the quicker the better, come what may.
Isn't this a part of the problem? You have such a rabid sense of entitlement that you think your unsupported statements mean something. What do you think it is?

I'm not asking for much. Just a single rational argument, or even a short story with an emotional argument, as I posted when I started this thread.

All you have to offer, though, is "I'm right, you're wrong, take it or leave it." Does this not strike even you as less than a compelling argument?

Again I ask: (1) Name a single way in which EU membership has adversely affected you and/or (2) Name a single way in which Brexit will benefit the majority of UK citizens.

If you refuse to do so, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that you have no answers; that you have nothing to offer but empty bluster.

This is not a question of politics. It is a question of fact. Can you deal with facts? If not, admit it.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2017   #76
Bar8barian
Registered User
 
Bar8barian is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 179
***** We Are Leaving The E.U. - Deal Or No Deal - Nothing More To Say ******************************
__________________






  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2017   #77
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,425
I take it we can understand this as an answer. Our other member doesn't have any rational arguments.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2017   #78
johnf04
Registered User
 
johnf04 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Age: 69
Posts: 367
Isn't there a push for a second referendum?
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2017   #79
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
I take it we can understand this as an answer. Our other member doesn't have any rational arguments.
Well, quite. This is why I'm no longer bothering to try to argue with him. It takes a minimum of research to discover that the original horse meat scandal was discovered by (wicked, EU, Irish) scientists, because UK food inspectors were neither required nor equipped to do basic DNA testing. The current scandal, in Spain, again involves EU authorities dealing with an illegal use of horse meat. The word "illegal" is quite important. But perhaps he imagines that after Brexit, there will suddenly be no more crooks in the UK, and no more meat imports.

As for housing, schools, etc., in the UK, he has adopted the usual Brexit trick of attributing to the vile, evil EU the decades-long failure by UK politicians to plan for anything much; or more accurately, to gather the taxes necessary to pay for basic social services. It is odd that in most of the rest of the EU, such problems are much reduced, and harping upon immigration (i.e. blaming someone else for poor government decisions) is generally regarded as the province of the far right.

But then, he's probably finding it very hard to come to terms with the ever-growing probability that Brexit won't happen; and that if it does, it won't Keep Out The Foreigners because freedom of movement is pretty much a precondition of any rational trade deal. The British could of course have exercised far more control of immigration, totally within EU rules, but repeatedly chose not to.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2017   #80
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnf04 View Post
Isn't there a push for a second referendum?
Dear John,

Yes. And the Brexiteers are terrified because they know that their wafer-thin majority is unlikely ever to be repeated. If they were really confident, they'd be cheerleaders for a second referendum because they'd know they were going to win.

As it is, they're running scared because they know they'd almost certainly lose.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:04.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.