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M6 meter no longer repairable?
Old 09-28-2019   #1
Huss
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M6 meter no longer repairable?

From this thread where there is a classic M6 for sale with broken meter:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...?product=55177

"I tried to get the meter fixed but I was told that the parts are no longer available."

If this is indeed the case, then how 'in your opinion' does this affect the value/pricing of Leica film Ms. Because to me a camera without a meter (M4) is more attractive than a camera with a broken meter. Just because knowing that there is something broken on it bugs me!
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Old 09-28-2019   #2
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My guess is that Stephen G's repair man just doesn't have the parts. Leica Japan told me last winter the M6 classic meter is repairable.
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Old 09-28-2019   #3
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When I hear it from David Elwell or DAG I'll believe it.
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Old 09-28-2019   #4
Rayt
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Maybe Leica is hoarding parts not selling them to independents. If true then it is as good as no parts given what they charge.
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Old 09-28-2019   #5
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Last time I checked, M6 TTL meter was not reparable by Leica Camera AG anymore. No parts.
For how long Leica will supply another parts, nobody knows. Any film M is kind of gamble now.
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Old 09-28-2019   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
When I hear it from David Elwell or DAG I'll believe it.
I believe DAG told me he can’t fix the early M6 meters.
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Old 09-28-2019   #7
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Ko.Fe. "Any film M is kind of gamble now."
K, With so many in circulation, I don't think I'll ever have difficulty getting donor parts for my M4 or a replacement body, in my lifetime.....
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Old 09-28-2019   #8
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My M3's meter never worked! Maybe this is why I use an external meter with this camera.
My M6 seems to be fine. The meter works.
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Old 09-28-2019   #9
Ronald M
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Leica Japan may have a hord from years ago.

M6 meter parts have been not available for a long time.

Just shot a roll with Nikon F2 + Pentax digital spot meter I owned for 3 decades. Every frame perfect.
I get perfection with Sekonic Studio Deluxe also.

There is a learning curve with spot meters.
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Old 09-28-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deardorff38 View Post
Ko.Fe. "Any film M is kind of gamble now."
K, With so many in circulation, I don't think I'll ever have difficulty getting donor parts for my M4 or a replacement body, in my lifetime.....

Not so many film M are made. M4-2 only twelve thousands, for example.
And if camera is old it has worn out parts as well.

I'm also don't want to be on the Mad Max territory, it is all yours
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Old 09-28-2019   #11
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Ko.Fe, Over 57,000 M4. Whenever i visit Japan i see lot's of them unused.
If i run out, I'll get an M2... that was my first Leica ..... 82,000 produced....pr even an M3 and use an SBL00.
To paraphrase from Treasures of the Sierra Madre: "Meter? I don't need no stinkin' meter" :-)
BTW did you see the article on the completely worn-out & re-built M4

https://www.leica-camera.blog/2011/1...r-of-a-legend/

Also, from all the Leicas i've owned & used, my latest M4 is the only one i ever sent for service....my experience with them finds them incredibly reliable.
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Old 09-28-2019   #12
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Used? Like everyday and for couple of thousands exposures per year, at least? Or just "used"... Because if Leica is used for real, it will need service, parts once in a while.
82K is miniscular number, FED-2 is made in 2.000.000.
But using old cameras for spares, I have done it. It feels like cannibalizing....
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Old 09-28-2019   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Used? Like everyday and for couple of thousands exposures per year, at least? Or just "used"... Because if Leica is used for real, it will need service, parts once in a while.
82K is miniscular number, FED-2 is made in 2.000.000.
But using old cameras for spares, I have done it. It feels like cannibalizing....
You're right about the cannabalizing feel Ko.Fe.
Used? Well mostly i only had one camera at a time, & i was never a press photographer, but as a professional mountain climbing guide my Leica went everywhere with me, Alaska expeditions, Nepal, heli-skiing and ski- touring all winter long, climbing in the Alps. Dropped, bumped, bruised... so normal continuous use. And never needed service. That's my story.... & yes in estimate a couple of thousand exposures a year....
not camera collecting....

& Huss: "Because to me a camera without a meter (M4) is more attractive than a camera with a broken meter. Just because knowing that there is something broken on it bugs me!" I totally agree with you....
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Old 09-28-2019   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deardorff38 View Post
.......

& Huss: "Because to me a camera without a meter (M4) is more attractive than a camera with a broken meter. Just because knowing that there is something broken on it bugs me!" I totally agree with you....

I agree. I have a Rollei 35S with a bung meter, unrepairable. Superb lens, everything else lovely, but having a crippled meter spoils the experience altogether. (but at least it is more usable than my bung Ricoh GV1v)
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M6 meter no longer repairable?
Old 09-28-2019   #15
joe bosak
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M6 meter no longer repairable?

Aren't meters comparatively simple things, so wouldn't it be possible for a reasonably motivated and talented person/team/whatever to design and manufacture a replacement? People are reverse engineering old computer boards and designing their own around old components and manufacturing new ones, multi-layer pcbs and surface mounted components, with short production runs of a few hundred. A meter seems surely simple by comparison. Not that I'd have a clue where to start myself of course.
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Old 09-28-2019   #16
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Well, if M6 meter parts are not available, then what about the MP? Pretty much the same meter, no?
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Old 09-28-2019   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Not so many film M are made. M4-2 only twelve thousands, for example.
And if camera is old it has worn out parts as well.

I'm also don't want to be on the Mad Max territory, it is all yours
A mad max Leica M! There’s an interesting idea 🤓
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Old 09-28-2019   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Well, if M6 meter parts are not available, then what about the MP? Pretty much the same meter, no?

Good question Rob.....i wonder what the answer is?

My limited experience is that not all repairmen have all the parts. When I was about to get my M4 serviced (& adapted for a Leicavit), I called Vancouver, then Kinderman in Toronto, then the Head bar keeper, then Youxin Ye. When I called Don Goldberg.... he had the parts. I understand the lack of parts for M7s and TTLs, but i'm sure someone has the parts to fix the standard M6 meter.
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Old 09-28-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Well, if M6 meter parts are not available, then what about the MP? Pretty much the same meter, no?
It sounded like a difference between early m6 and late m6. Early m6 meter couldn’t be fixed by him.
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Old 09-28-2019   #20
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I would send the M6 to Don Goldberg. He will know what can be done.
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Old 09-28-2019   #21
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I think that the problem with both the M6 TTL and M7 is that they use microcontrollers (a 16bit derivative of the elderly 6502 for embedded use) that have long since been out of production. Without supplies of chips it is not possible to make more circuit boards.

These chips can definitely fail: my M7 had a metering fault that looked very much like an ADC failure.

Of course, it is possible to design new circuit boards around contemporary parts - but given that the M7 was discontinued rather than redesigned, presumably Leica has already concluded that the cost of doing this could not be justified
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Old 09-29-2019   #22
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Did Leica confirm that the M6 and M7 light meters cannot be repaired?
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Old 09-29-2019   #23
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I think that it is just the M6 TTL that can not be repaired at the moment (along with some of the electronic R series). Some people have suggested that some parts in the standard M6 might be problematic now, but that camera might be simple enough and with enough users that alternatives might be found or developed.

Unfortunately, because of part availability, the stock of spares for the M7 must be finite. My guess is that Leica estimates that it has enough for a few years, to cover repairs to the last M7s that were sold.
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Old 09-29-2019   #24
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At least the M6 is a fully mechanical camera - the battery only operates the meter. If I'm not mistaken, the M7 only has two mechanical shutter speeds. You'd only be left with 1/60 and 1/125 if the circuit board goes kaput.
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Old 09-29-2019   #25
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Well, I like my M7 and use it quite a bit--perhaps more than my other Leicas. I will take the risk, and hang on to it. What is the evidence for Leica electronics going bad; any known incidents of it?

BTW, circuit boards can be troubleshot and repaired at the component level.
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Old 09-29-2019   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Well, I like my M7 and use it quite a bit--perhaps more than my other Leicas. I will take the risk, and hang on to it. What is the evidence for Leica electronics going bad; any known incidents of it?

BTW, circuit boards can be troubleshot and repaired at the component level.
I'm not trying to make an "M7s are unreliable" statement or anything, but I just did send one of my two M7s in for repair. Something wrong with the shutter speed dial/metering circuit. I've had it for 10 years and it was used when I bought it - no clue how old it is.
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Old 09-29-2019   #27
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Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
At least the M6 is a fully mechanical camera - the battery only operates the meter. If I'm not mistaken, the M7 only has two mechanical shutter speeds. You'd only be left with 1/60 and 1/125 if the circuit board goes kaput.
The M6 is like my M3 when the battery is dead or the meter is dead. No big deal.
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