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A Prediction - The Leica SL-2 is Coming Soon
Old 09-23-2018   #1
BillBlackwell
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A Prediction - The Leica SL-2 is Coming Soon

Re-posted from PN -

Not that I have a particularly great track record predicting Leica's 'top secret' new products, but I have one anyway.

Within the next 4-months (by the end of January 2019) Leica will introduce the 'next gen' successor to the SL - the SL-2.

Specs will (minimally) include:
* > 40mp FF sensor;
* 4k 60p video;
* A sleeker, less edgy, mirrorless body;
* ISO topping out at ~50,000.
* Release price will be set at ~$7,495 USD.

So there you go. ...
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Old 09-23-2018   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBlackwell View Post
Re-posted from PN -

Not that I have a particularly great track record predicting Leica's 'top secret' new products, but I have one anyway.

Within the next 4-months (by the end of January 2019) Leica will introduce the 'next gen' successor to the SL - the SL-2.

Specs will (minimally) include:
* > 40mp FF sensor;
* 4k 60p video;
* A sleeker, less edgy, mirrorless body;
* ISO topping out at ~50,000.
* Release price will be set at ~$7,495 USD.

So there you go. ...
Great!

Will be looking forward to it. Maye Roger will get one at Lens Rentals that I can rent.

EDIT -
BTW, I just read on TOP that Panasonic, Leica and Sigma are joining to produce a new mirrorless camera with the SL lens mount. Maybe there would be a Foveon sensor to go along with that.
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Old 09-23-2018   #3
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Looks better than a box with a hole, but not by much.

They should rehire Porsche as design consultants.
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Old 09-23-2018   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
Looks better than a box with a hole, but not by much.

They should rehire Porsche as design consultants.
Porsche did design something with which the current SL shares aesthetics

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant

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Old 09-24-2018   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBlackwell View Post
Re-posted from PN -

Not that I have a particularly great track record predicting Leica's 'top secret' new products, but I have one anyway.

Within the next 4-months (by the end of January 2019) Leica will introduce the 'next gen' successor to the SL - the SL-2.

Specs will (minimally) include:
* > 40mp FF sensor;
* 4k 60p video;
* A sleeker, less edgy, mirrorless body;
* ISO topping out at ~50,000.
* Release price will be set at ~$7,495 USD.

So there you go. ...
Bill,

Your thumbnail comes to me as a surprise.

Thanks for posting this.

This will be an interesting thread.

Cal
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Old 09-24-2018   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBlackwell View Post
Re-posted from PN -

Not that I have a particularly great track record predicting Leica's 'top secret' new products, but I have one anyway.

Within the next 4-months (by the end of January 2019) Leica will introduce the 'next gen' successor to the SL - the SL-2.
I think you're right. I'm suddenly seeing a lot of youtube reviews by 'pro' photographers (and those with a large following) extolling the virtues of the current Leica SL.

Maybe to generate interest - or for those more cynically minded, to clear the old stock!



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Old 09-24-2018   #7
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Given the recently announced Panasonic FF camera, a comparable SL2 wtih dumbed down features and menus would certainly make sense. I wouldn't expect to see it hit the shelves before the Panasonic FF though. Of course, it could be announced before then. The Leica S has a sculpted body, so there is precedent for something less boxy.
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My prediction?
Old 09-24-2018   #8
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My prediction?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSPNQ82Sq4E
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Old 09-24-2018   #9
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While we're all speculating on the eve of Photokina announcements, it will be interesting to see how much of Panasonic's full frame camera is in a new SL, and vice versa. Very unlikely to be a direct rebrand like the lower end PanaLeicas, but it may share some internal circuitry or mechanisms like autofocus.

Interestingly, a metadata dump from an X Vario image revealed the word, 'Panasonic', and the X Vario is supposed to be a 'pure' Leica camera. So Leica has already been using some form of Panasonic technology in its own cameras, apart from the rebrands.

We shall see!
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Old 09-25-2018   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
While we're all speculating on the eve of Photokina announcements, it will be interesting to see how much of Panasonic's full frame camera is in a new SL, and vice versa. Very unlikely to be a direct rebrand like the lower end PanaLeicas, but it may share some internal circuitry or mechanisms like autofocus.

Interestingly, a metadata dump from an X Vario image revealed the word, 'Panasonic', and the X Vario is supposed to be a 'pure' Leica camera. So Leica has already been using some form of Panasonic technology in its own cameras, apart from the rebrands.

We shall see!
Add onto this how much of the new 64MP Leica S3 trickles into the new SL.

All the Crons that have been released or will be released in the future are all APO, even the wides. Very-very highly corrected glass. My 50 Lux-SL seems to be the only fast prime that is not APO.

The Panasonic "S" and S1 are pretty crazy.

Cal

POSTSCRIPT: Leica Rumors sent me an updated Leica SL lens roadmap. In 2020 they expect to release an APO 21 Cron, an APO 24 Cron, and an APO 28 Cron. The size looks to be the same E67 filter size and the same size as the released APO 75 Cron.
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Last edited by Calzone : 09-26-2018 at 06:10. Reason: POSTSCRIPT
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Old 09-25-2018   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
... it will be interesting to see how much of Panasonic's full frame camera is in a new SL, and vice versa. Very unlikely to be a direct rebrand like the lower end PanaLeicas, but it may share some internal circuitry or mechanisms like autofocus. ...
A re-branded "PanaLeica" with some firmware alterations for the Leica SL-2 is what I'd be expecting, but you could be right. It might be a "real" Leica built in Germany with its own unique shell as the original R cameras were (although their guts were pure Minolta by design). By doing this Leica could more convincingly demand the Leica branded price they want, then leave the "little people" to opt for the L mount (likely made-in-China) FF Panasonic.

Regardless, I'm standing by my prediction.
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Old 06-05-2019   #12
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Bump. ...

A little later than originally predicted (could be announced as early as this month [June 2019]), but all of my other predictions regarding the SL-2 still stand.
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Old 06-06-2019   #13
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Bump. ...

A little later than originally predicted (could be announced as early as this month [June 2019]), but all of my other predictions regarding the SL-2 still stand.
Bill,

Release is expected in the fall.

The smut on the Q2 sensor is that it is a very good sensor and is rated in the top ten in a Leica Rumors blast. This is likely the same sensor to be used in the SL2.

My dream is that Leica makes a SLM (SL2 Monochrom).

Cal
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Old 08-11-2019   #14
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What happened to an SL2 release in 2019?
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Old 08-23-2019   #15
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What happened to an SL2 release in 2019?
Raid,

Leica Rumors says expected release is in September. This goes along with fall 2019 that I have heard.

In doing more research it seems many landscape photographers await the SL2 for the more MP sensor. Their thinking is that the higher MP count will more fully exploit the APO glass.

The APO SL glass is said to be "future proof" because it is so advanced.

Cal
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Old 08-23-2019   #16
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Would a SL2 do anything special with M lenses, Cal, or is the SL sufficient?
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Old 08-23-2019   #17
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Would a SL2 do anything special with M lenses, Cal, or is the SL sufficient?
Raid,

I'm interested in eventually getting a SL2, but not as an upgrade because I intend to keep my SL. It remains a very capable camera.

The rumors are that Leica will be coming out with an APO 50 Lux-M, so a trend of APO lenses will extend from the SL to the M.

It is said by the landscape photographers who already shoot APO-SL Crons that these lenses offer a rendering that has increased contrast and perceived contrast in the in focus areas, and that the infocus to OOF is smooth in a magical way.

Look up a Jono Slack review of any APO SL Cron lens and included will be the Peter Karbe explaination of this APO enhancement in these lenses.
Also Jono has compared the APO 50 Cron-SL against the APO 50 Cron-M, and the winner is the APO 50 Cron-SL on a SL.

That said it seems to be an advantage to shoot a SL with "native" APO SL glass for best performance.

Now understand that landscape photographers tend to print big, and compound that with others photographers who don't print or only print small. What I'm trying to convey is that for most photographers the enhanced IQ, higher performance, higher resolution likely would not be utilized and would go wasted.

The above is why I will keep my SL. It is still a great camera and relivent even though it is only 24 MP.

BTW I know because I'm a printer how enhanced contrast boosts perceived sharpness. These APO lenses have this in the infocus rendering. Also my 50 Lux-SL is not marketed as an APO lens, but my observations suggest that it likely is an APO design.

Cal
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Old 09-09-2019   #18
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New from "Leica Rumors:" 47 MP and some leaked photo's. One less button on the back (only three instead of four) so the SL2 resembles the CL (a good thing). The grip is smaller and the rubberized covering wraps around the front. A less hard edge on the grip also, more rounded off and less angular.

They say perhaps a September announcement.

Cal
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Old 09-09-2019   #19
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Quote:
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Would a SL2 do anything special with M lenses, Cal, or is the SL sufficient?
Nothing that more pixels wouldn't do, in my opinion. What else could the SL2 possibly do that the SL doesn't when the carefully made Leica lens profiles offered for M and R lenses allow them to image with just about the exact same beauty that they did on the cameras they were originally designed for?

Operationally, the SL2 couldn't do anything that the SL doesn't already unless they included a rangefinder cam linkage in the mount adapter that fed the focus distance display and maybe the automatic focus aids, but that would be a matter of the adapter rather than the lenses themselves.

I loved my SL, one of the very finest cameras I've ever owned. But I moved to the CL body a year and some ago as it suits what I do now, post-retirement, better than the SL body. Simpler, smaller, lighter, and the smaller format has some advantages for what I do with the camera. Regardless, I look forward to seeing what Leica provides with the SL2 body.

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Old 09-09-2019   #20
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Perhaps true....the 'old' SL+M mount adapter is offered at an interesting price point in the Leica upgrading program.
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Old 09-09-2019   #21
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Nothing that more pixels wouldn't do, in my opinion. What else could the SL2 possibly do that the SL doesn't when the carefully made Leica lens profiles offered for M and R lenses allow them to image with just about the exact same beauty that they did on the cameras they were originally designed for?

Operationally, the SL2 couldn't do anything that the SL doesn't already unless they included a rangefinder cam linkage in the mount adapter that fed the focus distance display and maybe the automatic focus aids, but that would be a matter of the adapter rather than the lenses themselves.

I loved my SL, one of the very finest cameras I've ever owned. But I moved to the CL body a year and some ago as it suits what I do now, post-retirement, better than the SL body. Simpler, smaller, lighter, and the smaller format has some advantages for what I do with the camera. Regardless, I look forward to seeing what Leica provides with the SL2 body.

G
Thank you for your useful assessment, Godfrey. My M9 is getting old, and I may need some new camera. For me, it has been a decision between an M10 or an SL so far.
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Old 09-09-2019   #22
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My M9 is getting old, and I may need some new camera. For me, it has been a decision between an M10 or an SL so far.

Are you still happy with the images that the M9 gives you?
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Old 09-09-2019   #23
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Nothing that more pixels wouldn't do, in my opinion. What else could the SL2 possibly do that the SL doesn't when the carefully made Leica lens profiles offered for M and R lenses allow them to image with just about the exact same beauty that they did on the cameras they were originally designed for?

Operationally, the SL2 couldn't do anything that the SL doesn't already unless they included a rangefinder cam linkage in the mount adapter that fed the focus distance display and maybe the automatic focus aids, but that would be a matter of the adapter rather than the lenses themselves.

I loved my SL, one of the very finest cameras I've ever owned. But I moved to the CL body a year and some ago as it suits what I do now, post-retirement, better than the SL body. Simpler, smaller, lighter, and the smaller format has some advantages for what I do with the camera. Regardless, I look forward to seeing what Leica provides with the SL2 body.

G
No doubt the CL is a great camera. I'm lucky because I own both a SL and CL. Call me spoiled.

The CL was a lot cheaper than buying short tele's for my SL. The CL takes great glass and exploits the sweet spot to get perfection. My 50 Lux-R "E60" becomes a 75 Lux and kinda crushes the 75 Lux-M version 2 I had wide open.

The Noct-Nikkor becomes an 87/1.2.

Interesting to note that the three button layout of the SL2 seems to have been "lifted" off the CL. The Leica menues are so easy to navigate and the CL keeps everything simple and direct. So intuitive...

A feature on my CL that I love is that if I have an autofocus L-mount lens on the CL and I switch to autofocus the camera enlarges the image to nail the focus the moment I turn the focus ring.

Too bad my CL did not do this with M-mount and R-mount. Only AF lenses work this way when set in manual mode.

Cal
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Old 09-09-2019   #24
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Are you still happy with the images that the M9 gives you?
I am very happy with the images because my photography is mainly in Florida where we do not need high ISO most of the time. I am just viewing it as a "maybe next buy" one day.
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Old 09-09-2019   #25
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Old 09-09-2019   #26
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Jeeze..thats a butt ugly camera...lol..
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Old 09-11-2019   #27
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Jeeze..thats a butt ugly camera...lol..
Guess beauty is in eye of the beholder, kinda like the R8/9...
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Old 09-12-2019   #28
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Guess beauty is in eye of the beholder, kinda like the R8/9...
Analog,

I agree. I loved my Hunchback of Solms (R8).

Also people disregard how the advances have been passed down from the Leica "S" to the SL, and lastly to the M10. For example the Maestro processor with big buffer. The processor in the M10 is not new to me because I have been using it in my SL for the past 4 years or so.

When "Mike the skinny hipster" borrowed a three lens Leica "S" kit from Leica for a feature that would be published in the latest issues of Leica "S" magazine and LFI, Mike called me because I own a SL. Pretty much the same intuitive menues and layout. I was surprised how similar the two cameras were.

Now it seems the new SL2 even adopted the same three button on the left side as the CL. BTW I love the simple controls on the CL, even better than the SL because they are so simple and elegant.

Pretty much I dumb down the camera and remove all the stuff I don't need or never use. Pretty much I make my SL and CL like a film camera.

Already lots of haters that are die hard M users on the DP Review thread above that John posted.

If one understands the flow of technology and development one would see that the big advances first came out in the "S" then SL that are now in the newly released M10.

As far as glass goes the M-lenses win in speed with 28 Lux, 0.95 Noctilux, and 75 Noctilux, but know that all the L-mount Crons, even the wides, are all APO.

My 50 Lux-SL I kow is monsterously huge and heavy, but it is mucho smooth in rendering yet just as sharp as my 50 Lux-M ASPH. The 50 Lux-M ASPH was biting sharp and at times had aweful harshness in the OOF.

Read the Jono Slack review where he compares the APO 50 Cron-M against the APO 50 Cron-L. There is a clear winner and it wasn't the M-lens as great as it is.

No doubt in my mind which files will print bigger (SL2).

I will also say not everybody prints, and even fewer print big to transcend formats where enhanced IQ, increased resolution, and expanded tonality counts. Not for everybody...

I would even argue that for the 75 Noctilux that my SL would be a better platform for nailing the focus wide open. I actually tried this lens on my SL. At F1.2 the 75mm FOV has mucho shallow DOF. I would expect a lower "hit" ratio with a rangefinder. I find the zoom in much more accurate than focus peaking.

I find it rather amusing how people can hate the SL and SL2 already and love the M10. Pretty much a lot of the same camera.

I have a friend who owns a SL who then later bought a M10. He agrees that pretty much they are more alike than different. BTW he favors the SL over the M10 and with the M10 has buyer's remorse.

Cal

POSTSCRIPT: How many years do you think will pass until a M11 comes out with a 47 MP sensor? I say 4-5 years. Meanwhile later this year the SL2 will start becoming available. Ha-Ha.
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Old 09-12-2019   #29
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While the SL works great with both M and R manual focus lenses, as well as my Noct-Nikkor, the pain is waiting for the native L-mount lenses.

The 50 Cron-L APO has just been released. Read Jon Slack's review and look at the rendering in the supplied images.

https://www.macfilos.com/2019/08/15/...-50mm-f2-asph/

Not that the comparision between the 2 50 APO Cron's is extensive, and the statement about which one is better is really only one sentence, but the APO 50 Cron-M is arguably one of the best M-mount lenses available.

Know that Jono is mostly a 50 shooter.

Cal
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Old 09-12-2019   #30
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Who needs a 47MP sensor? To those who do, and to those who think they do...I wish them all the best.
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Old 09-12-2019   #31
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Who needs a 47MP sensor? To those who do, and to those who think they do...I wish them all the best.
OTL,

Even maximizing my MM which is only 18 MP without a Bayer filter array I can print big (20x30 on 24x36 sheet). With some files I wish I had a 44 inch printer.

A friend of mine shoots a Hasselblad H1. The digital back is not so many when compared to a H5. He says sometimes it is about the size of the pixel verses how many.

Surely 47 MP exceeds many users requirements. Not that I have to defend being a SL owner/user or prove how crazy some SL, or already SL2, hater's logic is irrational.

Simple fact is that given some time M-bodies a few years out will likely have 47 MP sensors.

I agree 47 MP is crazy and serious overkill.

Cal
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Old 09-12-2019   #32
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Who needs a 47MP sensor? To those who do, and to those who think they do...I wish them all the best.
I do for film scanning.
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Old 09-12-2019   #33
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I do for film scanning.
Yes …. I don`t know why people always equate more mega pixels with printing.

Scanning or (in my case) the ability to crop thus saving you toting a large lens around are the real advantages of more mp .
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Old 09-12-2019   #34
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I do for film scanning.
Huss,

A very good point. I overlooked this.

Hmmm...

I have the Leica copy stand already, the Elpro for a 100/2.8 Macro, and the adapter for Nikon F-mount to use my Nikon 55/2.8 Macro AIS.

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Old 09-13-2019   #35
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I do for film scanning.
An expensive scanning solution! Would you actually buy the new SL for scanning purposes?
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Old 09-13-2019   #36
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An expensive scanning solution! Would you actually buy the new SL for scanning purposes?
OTL,

An Imacon is another expensive scanning solution. Not inexpensive either. In fact even more expensive.

Cal
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Old 09-13-2019   #37
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Photoville is this weekend. Leica forgoes participating in PhotoPlusExpo, but there is an opportunity to borrow and test Leica gear at Photoville with a photo ID and Credit Card as collateral at the Leica booth there.

I'm hoping I can try the new APO 50 Cron-L or an APO 35 Cron-L. I'll be bringing my SL and CL.

Should be exciting and informative.

Cal
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Old 09-13-2019   #38
Canyongazer
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Guess beauty is in eye of the beholder, kinda like the R8/9...[/quote]


+1
It looks good and, as a guess, it will feel good in the hands, too, a sometimes undervalued consideration.
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Old 09-13-2019   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyongazer View Post
Guess beauty is in eye of the beholder, kinda like the R8/9...

+1
It looks good and, as a guess, it will feel good in the hands, too, a sometimes undervalued consideration.[/quote]

My SL is slightly bigger than a M, but the glass is both big and heavy. The weathersealing is a big deal and will spoil you. I have shot in heavy rain where I would have left an M at home.

In real life, over the years, I still just have the single OEM battery and never bought a spare. Meanwhile with a M I carry at least one spare battery and at times two.

I found this black rubber bracelet that has the word "Monster" printed on it for some VIP event. I put it on my 50 Lux-L to honor my friend John who calls my big and heavy cameras "Monsters."

While I do see many M-bodies "in the wild" here in NYC, it is very rare that I will see a SL. Not a popular camera. Mucho much bigger and heavier than a M.

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Old 09-13-2019   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Out to Lunch View Post
An expensive scanning solution! Would you actually buy the new SL for scanning purposes?
Not at all. $2500 for 47mp that gives much better image quality than any of the currently available dedicated scanners under $10K. Much quicker to use. Much better software. Works seamlessly with whatever you may have.
And it can also be used as a kamera.

I wouldn't buy the SL2 as a dedicated scanner because I need a 1:1 macro lens with AF. AF is key as it focuses on the film grain (in live view) in a second. I don't think there are any such lenses available that can be used in such a way with the SL series. Manual focus - yes - but not AF. I tried MF when I first started and it took me forever to get focus as I kept on making adjustments.
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