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Nikon RF This forum is dedicated to Nikon Rangefinders: the Nikon One, Nikon M, Nikon S, Nikon S2, Nikon SP, Nikon S3, Nikon S4, and Nikon S3M, Nikon S3 2000, Nikon SP 2005. Plus the ONLY production camera ever made in Nikon Rangefinder mount WITH TTL metering ... the Voigtlander Bessa R2S.

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Old 6 Days Ago   #361
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What kind of cameras do fine art photographers use?
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Fine art or artists? 😉
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #362
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Art photography seems like such a small niche to market a niche product to...
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Old 6 Days Ago   #363
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nikon tried this 13 years ago -- but it was as an instant collectable and they lost money on every one .
only 2500 black sp with all black 3,5cm 1.8 were made
many of those are being used now -

art photographers use some really low tech or oddball items

there are so many film cameras for sale used -- that it seems not a good decision to make another from scratch.
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #364
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How do you know what are the chances? You donīt.
For all the reasons previously posted in this thread.

 

Old 6 Days Ago   #365
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For all the reasons previously posted in this thread.

You donīt know.

I bet on Nikonīs sensibility to Japanese collectors and passionate photo geeks.

All this rational talk gets trumped by passion every day of the week.

Film should be dead already and it keeps coming back.

Cameras should be dead already and we should all be clicking on Samsungs and iPhones but cameras are here.
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #366
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Yeah, all of us skeptics are clueless, business decisions are entirely made upon wishful thinking, passion, and dreaming.

 

Old 6 Days Ago   #367
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nikon tried this 13 years ago -- but it was as an instant collectable and they lost money on every one .
only 2500 black sp with all black 3,5cm 1.8 were made
many of those are being used now -

art photographers use some really low tech or oddball items

there are so many film cameras for sale used -- that it seems not a good decision to make another from scratch.
Nikon didnīt try this. They released a limited edtion, expensive, for collectors. It had nothing to do w/ the film renaissance.

And if you think a non metered 5000 dollar camera is nikonīs try to go along the young crowd who is shooting film.. well... think again.
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #368
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The demand was not there.
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Clearly?? Are you kidding?
Yes, clearly. They didn't even sell all of the SP 2005s at their original retail price, either.
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #369
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Yes, clearly. They didn't even sell all of the SP 2005s at their original retail price, either.
clearly Itīs an expensive collectors camera .

clearly Itīs an expensive collectors camera .

clearly Itīs an expensive collectors camera .

Released before the film renaissance.

It wasnīt a camera made for the young crowds shooting film NOW.

 

Old 6 Days Ago   #370
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All true, but it wasn't exactly a financial success for Nikon, at the time, and there was a lot more film being shot in 2000 and 2005 than there is now.

Do the bean counters there want to take another bath, considering the current state of the digital photography market, the rise of Sony as a major competitor, the recent release of their new mirrorless, and many other factors?

Slim. None.
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #371
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Clearly?? Are you kidding? Nikon launched a 5 thousand dollar camera w/ no meter to assess the interest in a film revival?

You are joking right?

Nikon was showing off. Nothing else.

If they wanted to measure interest in film they would launch 700 dollar camera, auto focus and 3 auto meter programs.
Actually no, Nikon was not showing off. At least, not initially. And back in the late 1990s, it was a rangefinder renaissance, not a film renaissance.

There used to be an interview style article on the Nikon Japan website about how the reissue Nikon rangefinder project came about. Basically, the marketing guys at Imaging Company (now called Imaging Business Unit) saw the rangefinder renaissance unfolding in the late 1990s and wanted to join the party. The camera they decided to produce was the chrome Nikon S3, because it was the easiest option to put into production, and their initial plan was to sell 10,000 units PER YEAR. Yes, you read that right, the initial plan was to sell 10,000 units per year. Mito Nikon was commissioned with manufacturing the reissue S3 cameras (right next to the F3 production line I heard) and Tochigi Nikon was commissioned with manufacturing the reissue 50mm lenses.

But as we now know, it became apparent very quickly that the camera wouldn't sell very well. Fast forward to late 2001, and the project was folded with approximately only 8,000 units sold. The number is approximate because it was not intended as a limited edition, and Nikon has never released the actual number sold other than "approximately 8,000 units".

Move forward to 2002, and Nikon finally caved to all the Nikon collectors that complained they really wanted a black paint reissue rangefinder, not a chrome reissue rangefinder, and released a black paint version, the Nikon S3 Limited Edition Black, as a limited edition, 2,000 units only. The word on the street here in Japan is that it was a way for Nikon to use up remaining parts at the factories. Two birds with one stone!

Move forward to 2005, and Nikon again caved to all the Nikon collectors who complained that they actually wanted a black paint Nikon SP reissue, not a lowly Nikon S3, which was the budget model to the SP. So after lots of painstaking work figuring out how to manufacture the complicated finder of the Nikon SP (the reason the Imaging Company marketing guys initially went with the S3) Nikon did another limited edition, this time 2,500 units only with a different lens, a 35mm f1.8 instead of a 50mm f1.4.

So there you have it. The limited edition Nikon SP reissue of 2005 was certainly Nikon showing off to say, "yeah we still got it", but the chrome Nikon S3 reissue of 2000 was just a bad marketing decision, and the subsequent black paint Nikon S3 reissue was just Nikon clearing out unused parts.

By the way, most Nikon employees I've met don't have a clue regarding the company's history and past cameras. Especially those under 40 years old. "Did Nikon even make film cameras???". Ahhhh yeah, Nikon did actually.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #372
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Actually no, Nikon was not showing off. At least, not initially. And back in the late 1990s, it was a rangefinder renaissance, not a film renaissance.

There used to be an interview style article on the Nikon Japan website about how the reissue Nikon rangefinder project came about. Basically, the marketing guys at Imaging Company (now called Imaging Business Unit) saw the rangefinder renaissance unfolding in the late 1990s and wanted to join the party. The camera they decided to produce was the chrome Nikon S3, because it was the easiest option to put into production, and their initial plan was to sell 10,000 units PER YEAR. Yes, you read that right, the initial plan was to sell 10,000 units per year. Mito Nikon was commissioned with manufacturing the reissue S3 cameras (right next to the F3 production line I heard) and Tochigi Nikon was commissioned with manufacturing the reissue 50mm lenses.

But as we now know, it became apparent very quickly that the camera wouldn't sell very well. Fast forward to late 2001, and the project was folded with approximately only 8,000 units sold. The number is approximate because it was not intended as a limited edition, and Nikon has never released the actual number sold other than "approximately 8,000 units".

Move forward to 2002, and Nikon finally caved to all the Nikon collectors that complained they really wanted a black paint reissue rangefinder, not a chrome reissue rangefinder, and released a black paint version, the Nikon S3 Limited Edition Black, as a limited edition, 2,000 units only. The word on the street here in Japan is that it was a way for Nikon to use up remaining parts at the factories. Two birds with one stone!

Move forward to 2005, and Nikon again caved to all the Nikon collectors who complained that they actually wanted a black paint Nikon SP reissue, not a lowly Nikon S3, which was the budget model to the SP. So after lots of painstaking work figuring out how to manufacture the complicated finder of the Nikon SP (the reason the Imaging Company marketing guys initially went with the S3) Nikon did another limited edition, this time 2,500 units only with a different lens, a 35mm f1.8 instead of a 50mm f1.4.

So there you have it. The limited edition Nikon SP reissue of 2005 was certainly Nikon showing off to say, "yeah we still got it", but the chrome Nikon S3 reissue of 2000 was just a bad marketing decision, and the subsequent black paint Nikon S3 reissue was just Nikon clearing out unused parts.

By the way, most Nikon employees I've met don't have a clue regarding the company's history and past cameras. Especially those under 40 years old. "Did Nikon even make film cameras???". Ahhhh yeah, Nikon did actually.
Thank you very much for sharing the back story of those Nikon reissue cameras. I own both the Nikon SP 2005 and original black paint SP. It’s amazing to see them sitting on the table at the same time and compare them side by side.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #373
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Thanks Jon, great information! Unfortunately this reveals even more reasons why we will likely never see such a project again.

All three Nikon reissues are incredible tributes to the originals. And yet the Rangefinder Renaissance was still not enough to support the production.

More history which documents the RF renaissance, courtesy of Stephen: https://cameraquest.com/rfren.htm
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #374
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Originally Posted by colker View Post
Nikon didnīt try this. They released a limited edtion, expensive, for collectors. It had nothing to do w/ the film renaissance.

And if you think a non metered 5000 dollar camera is nikonīs try to go along the young crowd who is shooting film.. well... think again.
What would a new camera in 2019 or 2020 cost? Sure, maybe not $5000 but it sure won't be $600 either, not unless Nikon chooses to subsidize the "film renaissance" by bleeding red ink.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #375
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What would a new camera in 2019 or 2020 cost? Sure, maybe not $5000 but it sure won't be $600 either, not unless Nikon chooses to subsidize the "film renaissance" by bleeding red ink.
Something along an FM 2 level. How much would that be?
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #376
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Google tells me an FM2 was $364 in 1983. According to an inflation calculator, in 2017 dollars that is about $900.

How many FM2's were made? I can't find that number via a few minutes of Googling. I am sure the economy of scale was vastly higher than today, so my guess is that something like that would have to retail at well north of $1000.
 

Old 6 Days Ago   #377
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
By the way, most Nikon employees I've met don't have a clue regarding the company's history and past cameras. Especially those under 40 years old. "Did Nikon even make film cameras???". Ahhhh yeah, Nikon did actually.
For shame! And Nikon even has its own museum.

Does Nikon have a corporate archives? I know Leica has, and Polaroid donated theirs to Harvard Business School.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #378
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By the way, most Nikon employees I've met don't have a clue regarding the company's history and past cameras. Especially those under 40 years old. "Did Nikon even make film cameras???". Ahhhh yeah, Nikon did actually.
Wow, that's an incomprehensibly lazy attitude toward learning about the company they work for. Kids these days, amiright?
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Old 5 Days Ago   #379
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Google tells me an FM2 was $364 in 1983. According to an inflation calculator, in 2017 dollars that is about $900.

How many FM2's were made? I can't find that number via a few minutes of Googling. I am sure the economy of scale was vastly higher than today, so my guess is that something like that would have to retail at well north of $1000.
That's an excellent point. I'm sure hundreds of thousands of FM2's were made and there's no way any new reissue of the camera would get close to that. The economy of scale would be much smaller and so the selling price much higher.

There are more FM2's available right now used than one can imagine. Why would anyone pay four times the used price for a new one??
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #380
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art photographers use some really low tech or oddball items
Really? They use everything... check out a museum or gallery.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #381
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That's an excellent point. I'm sure hundreds of thousands of FM2's were made and there's no way any new reissue of the camera would get close to that. The economy of scale would be much smaller and so the selling price much higher.

There are more FM2's available right now used than one can imagine. Why would anyone pay four times the used price for a new one??
12 hundred dollars for an AE nikon rangefinder like a Zeiss Ikon? It would sell like hot cakes.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #382
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Why would anyone pay four times the used price for a new one??
To be fair, there are a lot of people who are obsessive about buying things new, and would never touch used gear. I don't get the sentiment, but I've seen it often.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #383
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To be fair, there are a lot of people who are obsessive about buying things new, and would never touch used gear. I don't get the sentiment, but I've seen it often.
Yes. Exactly. If i am thousands of miles away from the seller of a used camera and i can buy something new from B&H.. i go to B&H.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #384
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12 hundred dollars for an AE nikon rangefinder like a Zeiss Ikon? It would sell like hot cakes.
Who said anything about an AE rangefinder? Are you kidding?

That would have to be a new design, from the ground up, since Nikon never had a meter in their rangefinders, much less an AE mode. Secondly, a new mount, since F-mount goes out the window, and a whole new line of lenses. So you're suggesting a vastly smaller volume on the film camera production line, basically a boutique item, designed from scratch with a new line of lenses...for $1200? Not gonna happen.

About the only way any of this craziness makes sense is if they reuse the F-mount line of lenses, though again, where is the money in that since few will be buying new lenses? Instead of using what they have?

If they remade / reissued an old classic 35mm film SLR with F-mount and priced it at $1499, how many do you actually think would sell? My guess is 500 tops.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #385
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You forget that without this 'foolishness' you couldn't buy a used M2/3/4/6 nowadays because at some point in the past people were 'foolish' enough to pay a lot of money when they were new. Besides, without this 'foolish' behaviour a lot of companies (and jobs btw.) wouldn't exist any more. So you should better think twice before you call this people foolish even when I get your initial thought especially when comparing the M2 with the M-A.

Coming back to the topic, I doubt that Nikon or Canon will ever produce film cameras again, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon comes sooner or later with a RF styled Z6/7. probably inheriting some design elements from the Nikon S.

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Also for digital cameras, it would be nice to have an alternative to Leica.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #386
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
So there you have it. The limited edition Nikon SP reissue of 2005 was certainly Nikon showing off to say, "yeah we still got it", but the chrome Nikon S3 reissue of 2000 was just a bad marketing decision, and the subsequent black paint Nikon S3 reissue was just Nikon clearing out unused parts.
They spoiled many Nikon collections. The value of a black Nikon SP or S3 before the reissues was incredible. I've heard of prices of $150.000 for a black motorized Nikon SP.

The only black Nikon rangefinder that still is rare, is the S2. But even that one came down in price.

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Old 5 Days Ago   #387
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Who said anything about an AE rangefinder? Are you kidding?
That's a cornerstone of the OP's proposal. It has to be a RF.

Earlier (much earlier, like 8 or 9 pages ago), I suggested maybe they should just ask Cosina to re-start production of the FM10. OP said no, it has to be a RF.

Hey, since we're wishing for crazy, pie-in-the-sky silly stuff, maybe this new camera can use the same lenses as the ones for the new Z6 and Z7 mirrorless cameras? That way maybe they'll sell a few more lenses without cannibalizing sales of an existing system, and they won't have to tool up to make SC-mount lenses any more.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #388
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Right, I was just trying to follow his logic (or lack thereof) from the previous question about an FM2...

I thought about the mirrorless lenses, with regard to a new film camera. That would imply autofocus, and how would you frame the image without an EVF? Of course then it wouldn't be a real rangefinder either, but more of a successor to the Contax G line perhaps.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #389
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What’s potentially realistic is an RF-style Z camera, ala the Fuji X-E series. Of course, it only works with notfilm.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #390
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Make it m-mount and Release a limited run of nikon-s formula lenses in m mount. Heck, let cosina make them, a few thousand for the collectors. The shooters can use any m mount lens they want.


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Old 5 Days Ago   #391
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What’s potentially realistic is an RF-style Z camera, ala the Fuji X-E series.
They`d have me as a customer...but I think Nikon fans love those big grips.
 

Old 5 Days Ago   #392
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They`d have me as a customer...but I think Nikon fans love those big grips.
I like big grips and I cannot lie!

I could see Nikon shaving down the Z and offering a body similar to say the Fuji GFX 50R is to the 50S.

Offset the EVF add NKJ logo BAM!
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Old 5 Days Ago   #393
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I like big grips and I cannot lie!

I could see Nikon shaving down the Z and offering a body similar to say the Fuji GFX 50R is to the 50S.

Offset the EVF add NKJ logo BAM!
Haha... yep, I thought of that too when posting.

One of the big manufacturers needs to do it... with AF lenses too. Fuji isn`t going to and Leica hasn`t yet.
 

This thread should have been DOA
Old 5 Days Ago   #394
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This thread should have been DOA

Dear Board,

One pipe dreamer has generated 10+ pages? OK, maybe 6 1/2 , or 7, because he's wasted no time in telling everyone who disagreed with him just how wrong they are while offering absolutely no proof.

If there was a market for a 35mm film rangefinder it would be exploited, or at least attempted to be exploited by some manufacturer. It's not happening, because there is no market.

Until all currently usable 35mm film rangefinders are dead there is no chance of anyone introducing one to the market. It's far more easy to get people to buy $ 600.00 cell phones than it ever will be to get people to buy a $ 600.00 35mm rangefinder camera. Never mind that a new 35mm rangefinder would be well north of a gee whizz, body only.

If wishes were fishes I'd have my own TV fishing show!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

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Old 4 Days Ago   #395
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I think we could see a new film model again, but it won`t be a rangefinder from Nikon or Canon. We will see another film rangefinder again too... but most likely just another iteration of a model we already know.
 

Old 4 Days Ago   #396
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I was just thinking...out of all the cameras I have owned not a single one..digitals included..did I buy new! So if someone does make a new film rig I can confidently say I won't be a customer.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #397
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This ^^^^^^^^^

I've bought two brand new cameras in 30 years. One, a Pentax ZX5n which was great. The other a Leica M9 which was not great.

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