Old 1 Week Ago   #81
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Honestly I think it's just random cameras that become fads. Overall, most used cameras are down in price over the past 8 years. Those "stupid expensive" Leicas? Not at all, II and III models are about 75% of what they cost in 2007. Counting for inflation, they're even lower. Canon P rangfinders were $200-300 a few years ago, now they're about $100. Most SLRs are staying in the $25 catagory, other than cult fads that crop up every few years. These drive a dirt cheap Pentax 1000 way above $25, until people finally get sick of them and move on. I see very few cameras going for what they did 8 years ago. All are lower. Lenses too.

Come on, M3 bodies that were $1800 back then are commonly selling on ebay for $900 to a grand. Is the M6 going high right now? I don't know, I don't check and don't care. But if it is, it will drop back down soon.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #82
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Originally Posted by goamules View Post
Most SLRs are staying in the $25 catagory, other than cult fads that crop up every few years. These drive a dirt cheap Pentax 1000 way above $25...
Yes, exactly. Awhile back, we were discussing the K1000 and its current price. Despite its very long production run and however-many millions made, its reputation as the "classic student camera" and whatever hip admiration it currently attracts has kept its price reasonably propped up. Not high priced, but respectable. Meanwhile, the other basic K cameras of the period languish near the bottom of the price ladder. There was one... K2? KX? ...which was really just a K1000 with a self timer and they sell for about $10 on Ebay. Just because no one knows what it is. But they do know its NOT a K1000!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #83
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I see I've touched a nerve with Pioneer and jawarden about the ZI patch. I didn't think I was making a fuss about it in the first place, but after several rolls through my ZI and my two Bessas I know what I like. They're fine cameras nonetheless.
No nerves touched, it's cool. Your post was interesting to me because I never would have noticed that one patch moved and one didn't. It still makes no difference to me but if it does to you then it does. For me the other traits of the viewfinder are more important but we don't all think alike.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #84
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Originally Posted by goamules View Post
Honestly I think it's just random cameras that become fads. Overall, most used cameras are down in price over the past 8 years. Those "stupid expensive" Leicas? Not at all, II and III models are about 75% of what they cost in 2007. Counting for inflation, they're even lower. Canon P rangfinders were $200-300 a few years ago, now they're about $100. Most SLRs are staying in the $25 catagory, other than cult fads that crop up every few years. These drive a dirt cheap Pentax 1000 way above $25, until people finally get sick of them and move on. I see very few cameras going for what they did 8 years ago. All are lower. Lenses too.

Come on, M3 bodies that were $1800 back then are commonly selling on ebay for $900 to a grand. Is the M6 going high right now? I don't know, I don't check and don't care. But if it is, it will drop back down soon.
You quote the few Leica models which are down in price.

M6s doubled their market price in 2 years.

M5s are rising steadily.

M2s are 50% more expensive than a couple yrs ago. At least. So are M4s.

Why? Mostly for internet hype. Google Leica M6 and you have a blogger saying "itīs the Leica to be had". It seems those analogue experts and advanced enthusiasts buying Leica Ms are sheep. A Leica M4p or M42 is not that dissimilar from the M6 and if you desperately need a TTL meter then a Leica M may not be your camera unlike the blogger says.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #85
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I follow the market pretty closely and those figures are inaccurate.

Leicas of course can vary wildly in price as it all is dependent on condition. Even a clamshell box will increase the price, and if there is also an outer box, it’s a jackpot!

Take an average and throw out the outliers and special models and you will see most Ms haven’t changed at all, M6s and M7s have climbed a bit. MPs are a bit lower. Have to look at actual selling prices, not asking prices.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #86
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I follow the market pretty closely and those figures are inaccurate.

Leicas of course can vary wildly in price as it all is dependent on condition. Even a clamshell box will increase the price, and if there is also an outer box, it’s a jackpot!

Take an average and throw out the outliers and special models and you will see most Ms haven’t changed at all, M6s and M7s have climbed a bit. MPs are a bit lower. Have to look at actual selling prices, not asking prices.
M6 is selling at 1.6 to 2.2k
M3 is 800
M5 is 850
M2 is 850
m4 is 1k

Is this innacurate?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #87
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A peek at sold listings on ebay is the best easy resource. Those numbers are probably not far off, although I see some M6s down in the $1100 range.

There is always a fairly large gap between 'users' and those that are 'new in box' or 0.85 TTL, or other less common variations.

Black chrome M4s are moving up a lot from a few years ago.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #88
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Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
A peek at sold listings on ebay is the best easy resource. Those numbers are probably not far off, although I see some M6s down in the $1100 range.

There is always a fairly large gap between 'users' and those that are 'new in box' or 0.85 TTL, or other less common variations.

Black chrome M4s are moving up a lot from a few years ago.
I will probably own one eventually but the M6 is the least attractive to myself. I much rather get an M4. Finding one w/ the RF patch in top shape is harder than going w/ an M6.

In the end a couple hundred bucks more wonīt bankrupt me.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #89
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Originally Posted by colker View Post
M6 is selling at 1.6 to 2.2k
M3 is 800
M5 is 850
M2 is 850
m4 is 1k

Is this innacurate?
Presumably these are US$ prices. On that basis the Australian $ equivalent prices (currently around 1 A$ = 72c. US) are fairly close, though the quoted M6 price might be a bit higher than here.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #90
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I see I've touched a nerve with Pioneer and jawarden about the ZI patch. I didn't think I was making a fuss about it in the first place, but after several rolls through my ZI and my two Bessas I know what I like. They're fine cameras nonetheless.

My nerves feel fine. Enjoy your sophisticated Leicas.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #91
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Hmmm, in the week before Christmas and the week before the New Year I sold a few bits and pieces and decided to look and see what I could spend my new found wealth on. I noticed a very nice M6 and M4 on ebay and did the usual checks and then noticed they weren't being snatched up whilst I checked things and so watched and waited.

Their prices dropped; the M6 several times and the M4 once, so far. Now if this is happening over the holidays when people have cash to spare and feel like treating themselves to a new toy I wonder...

Also in Europe we have different opinions about cult cameras in different countries and different pricing. So the problem is what to chose as the "price" either a private sale or a (German or Austrian) dealer's, f'instance.

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Old 6 Days Ago   #92
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Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hmmm, in the week before Christmas and the week before the New Year I sold a few bits and pieces and decided to look and see what I could spend my new found wealth on. I noticed a very nice M6 and M4 on ebay and did the usual checks and then noticed they weren't being snatched up whilst I checked things and so watched and waited.

Their prices dropped; the M6 several times and the M4 once, so far. Now if this is happening over the holidays when people have cash to spare and feel like treating themselves to a new toy I wonder...

Also in Europe we have different opinions about cult cameras in different countries and different pricing. So the problem is what to chose as the "price" either a private sale or a (German or Austrian) dealer's, f'instance.

Regards, David
What was the final asking price for those cameras? In the US the M6 is now about $1400, M4 chrome $800-$1000
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Old 6 Days Ago   #93
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What was the final asking price for those cameras? In the US the M6 is now about $1400, M4 chrome $800-$1000
I would much rather get an M4.. but i worry about the VF.
If i buy one i should be prepared to spend 3 to 400 dollars on CLA and VF prism separation issues.

I dealt w/ the prism on an M3. Itīs doable
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Old 6 Days Ago   #94
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I would much rather get an M4.. but i worry about the VF.
If i buy one i should be prepared to spend 3 to 400 dollars on CLA and VF prism separation issues.

I dealt w/ the prism on an M3. Itīs doable
Prism separated on my M5. Cost some bux to fix, but now that camera should be good for a loooong time (had the meter recalibrated to use modern battery).
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Old 6 Days Ago   #95
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Prism separated on my M5. Cost some bux to fix, but now that camera should be good for a loooong time (had the meter recalibrated to use modern battery).
The M5 is a cool camera. That 70s style... Not to mention how well it works.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #96
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The M5 is a cool camera. That 70s style... Not to mention how well it works.
I luckily just picked up an M5 from the forum here. All I see in the forums recently is a love for them now. I can’t tell if it’s because the m5 posts grab my attention now or if consensus is really changed.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #97
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I luckily just picked up an M5 from the forum here. All I see in the forums recently is a love for them now. I can’t tell if it’s because the m5 posts grab my attention now or if consensus is really changed.
Itīs because the Japanese collectors who are proud of their good taste elected the M5 as a cool camera to have in spite of the masses rejection of the camera.

Always pay attention to passion and this applies to film x digital. It may sound like a loser proposition but in the end everybody follows.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #98
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I have been watching M prices increase pretty steadily over the past few years, but that seems particularly the case for the M6 - for some reason. At the same time the M7 seems reasonable in price -certainly when you consider it is newer and has a semi-automatic mode.

Right now in the RFF classifieds - $1700 asking price for a M6 (sold), and $2000 for a M7. Why?
These prices strike me as a bit crazy but simply reflect the current desirability of these models at this point in time. I have a M6 (TTL version) that I purchased back in 2000. Had Leica not been offering some nice rebates back then (they amounted to almost 10% off of everything I bought) I'm not sure that I would have gone through with such an expensive purchase. In my case I appreciated the fact that the M6 was an all mechanical camera. The build quality impressed me (it still does, I've never picked apart camera construction to the extent that some here do). I absolutely wanted a built-in meter. While pride of ownership was a driving factor in my decision, I would point out that I'm not exactly the typical Leica owner it would seem. I did not buy my camera as an investment, but I did view it as a camera I would hang on to for a long time, until it no longer worked. (I did not own a digital camera then and I certainly didn't think that film might possibly "die off" at that point.) I actually prefer black chrome over both black paint and silver chrome. I personally don't care about "brassing" but I can understand why some do. In effect the M6 was sort of the ideal Leica for me. Especially since there was no stigma associated with such a purchase at that time — nobody cared or even paid attention to what kind of camera I had. I imagine that even today there are still buyers like me that don't look at the M6 as an "entry point" into Leica ownership so much as it's simply the Leica they want.

As someone else stated above, current M6 prices are likely just a reflection of the "rush" occurring right now with people like me that are moving back into film, or others who are jumping into film for the first time and want a built-in meter. (Combined with the fact that Leica is asking huge money for their current cameras). I would guess that in time some of these people will grow tired of shooting film, or maybe they'll simply grow tired of using a rangefinder. Then M6 prices will begin to head in the opposite direction. I would also point out that to me, those who desire a camera without a built-in meter represent a somewhat different set of users, many of whom perhaps never abandoned film to begin with. But for now, in this day and age when even car commercials are featuring rangefinder cameras, things are what they are. These are just my thoughts, take them for the $0.02 that they are worth.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #99
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These prices strike me as a bit crazy but simply reflect the current desirability of these models at this point in time. I have a M6 (TTL version) that I purchased back in 2000. Had Leica not been offering some nice rebates back then (they amounted to almost 10% off of everything I bought) I'm not sure that I would have gone through with such an expensive purchase. In my case I appreciated the fact that the M6 was an all mechanical camera. The build quality impressed me (it still does, I've never picked apart camera construction to the extent that some here do). I absolutely wanted a built-in meter. While pride of ownership was a driving factor in my decision, I would point out that I'm not exactly the typical Leica owner it would seem. I did not buy my camera as an investment, but I did view it as a camera I would hang on to for a long time, until it no longer worked. (I did not own a digital camera then and I certainly didn't think that film might possibly "die off" at that point.) I actually prefer black chrome over both black paint and silver chrome. I personally don't care about "brassing" but I can understand why some do. In effect the M6 was sort of the ideal Leica for me. Especially since there was no stigma associated with such a purchase at that time — nobody cared or even paid attention to what kind of camera I had. I imagine that even today there are still buyers like me that don't look at the M6 as an "entry point" into Leica ownership so much as it's simply the Leica they want.

As someone else stated above, current M6 prices are likely just a reflection of the "rush" occurring right now with people like me that are moving back into film, or others who are jumping into film for the first time and want a built-in meter. (Combined with the fact that Leica is asking huge money for their current cameras). I would guess that in time some of these people will grow tired of shooting film, or maybe they'll simply grow tired of using a rangefinder. Then M6 prices will begin to head in the opposite direction. I would also point out that to me, those who desire a camera without a built-in meter represent a somewhat different set of users, many of whom perhaps never abandoned film to begin with. But for now, in this day and age when even car commercials are featuring rangefinder cameras, things are what they are. These are just my thoughts, take them for the $0.02 that they are worth.
I can see myself in some of your comments. I see a Leica as another camera to use.. not a metaphysical entity or part of a lifestyle. I never invest in camera gear. The reason is: I've had many kinds of cameras.. some clicked, some didnīt .. some clicked only on the second time like Hasselblads.

I need to try different cameras and move on or i stall in my photography. A camera be it a Leica or digital point and shoot is as good as how much i use it. When it no longer works for me i throw it in closet and i forget about it. I donīt even sell it. I can only see camera value as something personal. Collecting means clean and take care of stuff i donīt need so forget about it.

Thatīs why any trend in camera gear affects me in the worst possible way. I just want it to be easy to buy, fix, use as much as possible and get rid of... Different lenses for the same focal length? No... too much stuff.

I am not lazy.. i developed all my B&W and printed everything. I have archived all my negatives. I go nuts if i lose any negative or print.. but cameras? Oy.
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