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New photo app for Mac and Windows!
Old 07-28-2015   #1
thegman
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New photo app for Mac and Windows!

Hi all,
Just an intro thread for a new photo application for Windows and Mac, which you may have seen advertised among the homepage banners of RFF.

As you can see from my post count, I've been on RFF a while, and so has my brother Moray (mugent). As well as both being photographers/camera fondlers, we're also software developers and after quite a while of thinking about it, we finally decided to go ahead an write a photo manager/manipulation package.

It's called Emulsion on the Mac, and Halide on Windows.

Essentially Halide and Emulsion are photo managers along the lines of Lightroom. We've got some great editing tools and filters built in, running very fast on the GPU of your PC or Mac.

We've got some great RAW support, and the Mac version can even uses some Aperture plugins. The Windows version hooks straight into the RAW codec system on Windows, so if you're using the FastPictureViewer CODEC Pack, that'll work right away on Windows to open up a load of different RAW formats.

Moray and I are both film and digital users, and although digital users are well served with this type of application, we want to hear from both parties on what features are priority.

We're working on new features right now, but what we really need is for RFF members to tell us what they want!

Please go ahead and get our 30 day trials for Windows:

Halide

and for the Mac:

Emulsion

And we'd love to hear what you think.

We'd also like to offer all RFF members 20% off the intro price of $49.99, so if you decide to buy, please use the discount code 'RFF' on our checkout.

The Mac version is on the App Store, just search for 'Emulsion', but we can't make the discount work there I'm afraid.

Please let us know what you think!

Thanks

Garry
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Old 07-28-2015   #2
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Shame, it unfortunately rather tricky as a Mac developer to keep supporting the older version while still use the features of the new versions...
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Old 07-28-2015   #3
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Congratulations Garry and moray - a fine achievement and I wish you every success.

Getting off the Linux bus now and booting up the Alienware to go have a look at Hallide. I enjoyed reading your blog on other topics too. Might have to get a Surface tab to go portable - thanks for the review.
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Old 07-28-2015   #4
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Thanks John, funny you should mention Alienware, I was looking at one just today in JB Hifi (an Australia electronics shop), I like the Surface, but the Alienware just looks like a monster (in a good way).
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Old 07-28-2015   #5
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Without support for older OS (Mac) I won't be using it. I have no plans to update from Lion due to too many issues with newer OS. I went to Mountain Lion and my Mac Pro will no longer maintain my monitor profile and I constantly get messages popping up. I wound up putting a new SSD in it and going back to Lion.

No Yosimete for me because my Wacom tablet will not work on it.

Simply too many issues with each updated OS from Mac and no interest in spending a few thousand dollars for new hardware every time Apple thinks they have a better idea.

Thanks for the thought anyway.
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Old 07-28-2015   #6
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Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
Without support for older OS (Mac) I won't be using it. I have no plans to update from Lion due to too many issues with newer OS. I went to Mountain Lion and my Mac Pro will no longer maintain my monitor profile and I constantly get messages popping up. I wound up putting a new SSD in it and going back to Lion.

No Yosimete for me because my Wacom tablet will not work on it.

Simply too many issues with each updated OS from Mac and no interest in spending a few thousand dollars for new hardware every time Apple thinks they have a better idea.

Thanks for the thought anyway.
I felt the same way when Oracle dropped support for Solaris on anything older than a T-series SPARC, it was just to sell more hardware, the older kit was way powerful enough...
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Old 07-28-2015   #7
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Not to hijack the thread but I feel Mac has complety forgotten the pro user. I don't care about IPhoto, sending and sharing little JPGs and music with the kids or any of the fluff Apple is building in. I want an OS that just runs my computer, nothing more. No built in apps other than a web browser so I can activate software when I load it. I work on my Mac Pro and that's it. It's a tool and nothing more. I wish they would creat an OS and leave it alone for 5 years. Leave things alone!!!
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Old 07-28-2015   #8
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Originally Posted by thegman View Post
Hi all,
Just an intro thread for a new photo application for Windows and Mac, which you may have seen advertised among the homepage banners of RFF.

As you can see from my post count, I've been on RFF a while, and so has my brother Moray (mugent). As well as both being photographers/camera fondlers, we're also software developers and after quite a while of thinking about it, we finally decided to go ahead an write a photo manager/manipulation package.

It's called Emulsion on the Mac, and Halide on Windows.

Essentially Halide and Emulsion are photo managers along the lines of Lightroom. We've got some great editing tools and filters built in, running very fast on the GPU of your PC or Mac.

We've got some great RAW support, and the Mac version can even uses some Aperture plugins. The Windows version hooks straight into the RAW codec system on Windows, so if you're using the FastPictureViewer CODEC Pack, that'll work right away on Windows to open up a load of different RAW formats.

Moray and I are both film and digital users, and although digital users are well served with this type of application, we want to hear from both parties on what features are priority.

We're working on new features right now, but what we really need is for RFF members to tell us what they want!

Please go ahead and get our 30 day trials for Windows:

Halide

and for the Mac:

Emulsion

And we'd love to hear what you think.

We'd also like to offer all RFF members 20% off the intro price of $49.99, so if you decide to buy, please use the discount code 'RFF' on our checkout.

The Mac version is on the App Store, just search for 'Emulsion', but we can't make the discount work there I'm afraid.

Please let us know what you think!

Thanks

Garry
What are the advantages / disadvantages of your sofware compared to Lightroom ?

Stephen
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Old 07-28-2015   #9
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Hi Garry,

Congratulations on building and shipping a new software product!

I've been using Lightroom since about beta 2, but I'm always interested to see what else comes available. Since I keep OS X and my Apple hardware up to date, it will be easy to test Emulsion and see what it's all about.

Thanks for the RFF discount too.

G
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Old 07-28-2015   #10
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Hi Garry,

Congratulations on building and shipping a new software product!

I've been using Lightroom since about beta 2, but I'm always interested to see what else comes available. Since I keep OS X and my Apple hardware up to date, it will be easy to test Emulsion and see what it's all about.

Thanks for the RFF discount too.

G
Thanks Godfrey, I used to use Lightroom too (but on Windows, Moray is the Mac guy), and I liked it in general, but I guess with a lot of Adobe stuff, it does tend to just get bigger, and bigger, and bigger.

Cheers!

Garry
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Old 07-28-2015   #11
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What are the advantages / disadvantages of your sofware compared to Lightroom ?

Stephen
Hi Stephen,
Well, I think the big advantage is the same as the disadvantage, we're a really small business vs. a very big business. The good thing about that is that we can respond to users' requests really quick, we had a user just a week or so ago, report an issue with a RAF RAW file, and we can get that tested and fixed with an update out the door in a day or two.

Of course though, although we can be more responsive than a big company like Adobe, we don't have the resources either, so they can more easily integrate with Photoshop etc. while we need to "take the long way round" as it were.

On a technical level, our file format is an open, textual, JSON format, it basically means no lock-in, you can open up our file format and read it easily.

Another thing we've got going for us is that Halide and Emulsion are completely separate applications, not a word of code in common. It's not a slighty dodgy port from Windows to Mac, or the other way round. On the Mac, we use all the Mac technologies like Core Image to make a 100% native Mac experience, and on Windows, we're using .NET, HLSL, and all the multi-processing capability we can get. I think with cross-platform applications, you often end up with a 'lowest common denominator' approach, whereas with us, you've got a pure Mac app, and a pure Windows app.

But I think for me, the big thing is that we're a two man band, if you want to us to put in a feature, we probably can, and we can do it fast. You don't have to wait until next year for the next iteration.

Cheers

Garry
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Old 07-28-2015   #12
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Another Luddite here, still running Snow Leopard. I've thought of getting a more recent version that will still run on my OS X 10.6.8. Would that be good enough to run Emulsion? Which version would that be?
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Old 07-28-2015   #13
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Another Luddite here, still running Snow Leopard. I've thought of getting a more recent version that will still run on my OS X 10.6.8. Would that be good enough to run Emulsion? Which version would that be?
Emulsion needs Mac OS X 'Yosemite', which is version 10.10, so unfortunately not. Not sure what hardware you're running, but my Mac Mini is kind of old and can still run Yosemite, although if you need compatibility with some other software or hardware, have to be careful about upgrading.
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Old 07-28-2015   #14
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The other frugal Mac user here have taken their swings so I'll avoid being too you-should-have.......

First off CONTRATS on shipping! Way cool. You have enough older windows support (win 7) that I'll give it a swing in a week or two (coming week and a half are crazy full). I'm wondering what the 32 vs 64 bit speed will be. I've got an older PC with just 4 GB of main memory for another week. Upgrading to a book-sized PC with more memory, USB 3 and a bit faster processor (quadcore).

For the weird folk like me I wish there was a way to pay for one license (perhaps at $55 or so) that would give me the ability to run a copy of each on my systems.

Again, congrats and best wishing to you and the team. I will purchase a copy in a couple of months as cash flow gets better. Love to support small companies.

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Old 07-28-2015   #15
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Just dowloaded the demo, and I'm not seeing an easy way to sequence images - just sorting. I'm all about finding a Lightroom-killer (now that Affinity is killing PS), but I definitely need to be able to put images in order and play around with portfolio edits, etc. It's 50% of what I use LR for.

Nice effort, though. Keep it up!
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Old 07-28-2015   #16
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The other frugal Mac user here have taken their swings so I'll avoid being too you-should-have.......

First off CONTRATS on shipping! Way cool. You have enough older windows support (win 7) that I'll give it a swing in a week or two (coming week and a half are crazy full). I'm wondering what the 32 vs 64 bit speed will be. I've got an older PC with just 4 GB of main memory for another week. Upgrading to a book-sized PC with more memory, USB 3 and a bit faster processor (quadcore).

For the weird folk like me I wish there was a way to pay for one license (perhaps at $55 or so) that would give me the ability to run a copy of each on my systems.

Again, congrats and best wishing to you and the team. I will purchase a copy in a couple of months as cash flow gets better. Love to support small companies.

B2 (;->

Hi Bill,
The license is per-user, so we're totally cool with you running on more than one computer.

Cheers

Garry
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Old 07-28-2015   #17
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Just dowloaded the demo, and I'm not seeing an easy way to sequence images - just sorting. I'm all about finding a Lightroom-killer (now that Affinity is killing PS), but I definitely need to be able to put images in order and play around with portfolio edits, etc. It's 50% of what I use LR for.

Nice effort, though. Keep it up!
Hi there,
Can you let me know if you're using Mac or PC, and also explain what you mean by 'sequence', email me at [email protected] and I'll see what I can do.

Cheers

Garry
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Old 07-28-2015   #18
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In the library module, LR allows the user to create a Quick Collection of images with a custom sequence. In Survey View with all Quick Collection files selected, the user can alter the order of images by dragging them around the workspace. If a user then exports the collection via the file menu or a template in the print module, they will be printed in the order defined.

The ability to play around with the order of images comes in handy when trying to visualize how a series of images work together.
Right I see, shouldn't be too big of a deal to implement something like that, I'll take a look.
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Old 07-28-2015   #19
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Do you provide tools to do negative inversions in your software?

I would switch from Lightroom in a heartbeat if I can do inversions in a natural way from RAW tiffs in a Lightroom equivalent (i.e. not have to go to Photoshop etc.).

Anyways, will try this over the weekend. Congrats on shipping the software!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegman View Post
Hi all,
Just an intro thread for a new photo application for Windows and Mac, which you may have seen advertised among the homepage banners of RFF.

As you can see from my post count, I've been on RFF a while, and so has my brother Moray (mugent). As well as both being photographers/camera fondlers, we're also software developers and after quite a while of thinking about it, we finally decided to go ahead an write a photo manager/manipulation package.

It's called Emulsion on the Mac, and Halide on Windows.

Essentially Halide and Emulsion are photo managers along the lines of Lightroom. We've got some great editing tools and filters built in, running very fast on the GPU of your PC or Mac.

We've got some great RAW support, and the Mac version can even uses some Aperture plugins. The Windows version hooks straight into the RAW codec system on Windows, so if you're using the FastPictureViewer CODEC Pack, that'll work right away on Windows to open up a load of different RAW formats.

Moray and I are both film and digital users, and although digital users are well served with this type of application, we want to hear from both parties on what features are priority.

We're working on new features right now, but what we really need is for RFF members to tell us what they want!

Please go ahead and get our 30 day trials for Windows:

Halide

and for the Mac:

Emulsion

And we'd love to hear what you think.

We'd also like to offer all RFF members 20% off the intro price of $49.99, so if you decide to buy, please use the discount code 'RFF' on our checkout.

The Mac version is on the App Store, just search for 'Emulsion', but we can't make the discount work there I'm afraid.

Please let us know what you think!

Thanks

Garry
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Old 07-28-2015   #20
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Do you provide tools to do negative inversions in your software?

I would switch from Lightroom in a heartbeat if I can do inversions in a natural way from RAW tiffs in a Lightroom equivalent (i.e. not have to go to Photoshop etc.).

Anyways, will try this over the weekend. Congrats on shipping the software!
If you mean simply to invert the colours, yes, it's a filter same as everything else in Halide/Emulsion:

https://halideapp.files.wordpress.co.../07/image4.png

Then you can either save a version or export the image.

Cheers

Garry
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Old 07-29-2015   #21
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Not to hijack the thread but I feel Mac has complety forgotten the pro user. I don't care about IPhoto, sending and sharing little JPGs and music with the kids or any of the fluff Apple is building in. I want an OS that just runs my computer, nothing more. No built in apps other than a web browser so I can activate software when I load it. I work on my Mac Pro and that's it. It's a tool and nothing more. I wish they would creat an OS and leave it alone for 5 years. Leave things alone!!!
I dont understand this complaint. Why cant you just delete the 'free' apps you dont need/want? What is actually built in that actually gets in he way and cant be deleted or deactivated? iPhoto? Ive never used it and dont notice that it resides in my apps folder. Theres nothing in the os that shares jpgs or music with the kids unless you tell it to. What am i missing?

With each major update, a small subset of users say theyre going to wait for the bugs to be ironed out. While everyone else goes foreward without a significant hiccup. I finally upgraded from my old mac pro to an imac almost two years ago. Today, preparing for a move, i dusted off the mac pro tower and emptied the bay for donation, and i was just so grateful to have been using the imac for those two years. Yes, i do believe apple has gone seriously wrong with itunes, but other than that and not being able to run my minolta scanner software, i couldnt imagine going back or standing pat with what we were using five yewrs ago. Im a graphic designer and use the mac for my living (such as it is), and i appreciate how reliable these things are. Five and ten years ago, we all had mac technicians to do setups and installs and maintenance and diagnostics. Now, those hippie freaks are obsolete. The machines and os just Go.


Okay. Back to the regularly scheduled program.....
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Old 07-29-2015   #22
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I was looking through the Halie web page, but cannot find pictures of the interface, which would be very nice (maybe even a short video?). I did notice a few in your blog though.
My biggest gripe with Lightroom currently (except for the lack of inversion), is the tiny curves adjustment, which I find lacking when making small adjustments. How does your curves tool look?
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Old 07-29-2015   #23
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Garry,

Congratulations on this software.

Are Sigma Foveon .X3F raw files supported? If not currently, are there any plans to do so? -- thanks Martin
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Old 07-29-2015   #24
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Hi there,
Can you let me know if you're using Mac or PC, and also explain what you mean by 'sequence', email me at [email protected] and I'll see what I can do.

Cheers

Garry
Someone already answered, but anyway... I thought this was one of the main purposes of this type of software, as nothing else easily lets you edit galleries for the web or even print (though InDesign is better suited for the latter). How else is everyone creating website gallery edits?

I'm on a Mac.
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Old 07-29-2015   #25
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Hi Bill,
The license is per-user, so we're totally cool with you running on more than one computer.

Cheers

Garry
FULL POINTS!!!

Very well done and thank you from the cheap seats.

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Old 07-29-2015   #26
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Originally Posted by CK Dexter Haven View Post
I dont understand this complaint. Why cant you just delete the 'free' apps you dont need/want? What is actually built in that actually gets in he way and cant be deleted or deactivated? ...
In recent versions of OS X, there are some apps (like Photos) that cannot be deleted because they contain shared frameworks and code that the OS uses internally for some of its operations; they are an integrated part of the OS deliverable.

This does not mean that you have to use them or that the system is sharing your data behind your back. It just means that these integrated-system apps must stay resident on the startup volume for the OS to access them when it needs code that they contain. The apps themselves are trivial in size and are not taking up much space—for instance, Photos.app is about the size of one of my scanned B&W raw files from the Nikon F6.

G
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Old 07-29-2015   #27
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Someone already answered, but anyway... I thought this was one of the main purposes of this type of software, as nothing else easily lets you edit galleries for the web or even print (though InDesign is better suited for the latter). How else is everyone creating website gallery edits?

I'm on a Mac.
Fair enough, I guess for me, I don't make portfolios, I print, but just stick them in albums in no particular order!

Feature request noted!
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Old 07-29-2015   #28
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Thanks. Do you have any plans to sunset support for Windows 7? If switching to Windows for editing is the answer to having reasonable backward compatibility in a non-subscription LR alternative such as yours, then I'll consider doing so.
No plans, the thing with developing for Windows vs. developing for the Mac, on Mac you target the OS level, on Windows (as a .NET developer), I don't target the OS, I target the .NET level, and Windows 7 is fully supported for .NET 4+ (in fact Vista is too), so I don't see Windows 7 support going away any time soon.

Windows 7 is 60% of the Windows user base, I think it's here for a while.
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Old 07-29-2015   #29
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Garry,

Congratulations on this software.

Are Sigma Foveon .X3F raw files supported? If not currently, are there any plans to do so? -- thanks Martin
I just tried an X3F file, and with the CODECs from:

http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/

It opened just fine, I'm not sure how much the spec changes for the newer cameras, I'd be happy to try a test file if you have one.

Those CODECs are $9.99, we're not affiliated with the company that makes them, but Halide works very well with them.
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Old 07-29-2015   #30
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It's very interesting and ambitious that you are implementing two separate programs from two code bases as a two-man band. I hope you are able to continue to keep them in sync. I'm sure there is a massive synergy as long as one of the versions is not just playing catch up.

I'll be checking the Mac version as soon as I get my new setup later this year. I don't plan on migrating to Yosemite on the current computer.
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Old 07-29-2015   #31
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It's very interesting and ambitious that you are implementing two separate programs from two code bases as a two-man band. I hope you are able to continue to keep them in sync. I'm sure there is a massive synergy as long as one of the versions is not just playing catch up.

I'll be checking the Mac version as soon as I get my new setup later this year. I don't plan on migrating to Yosemite on the current computer.
Well, keeping in sync is the aim, but at the same time, I like the idea of having two distinct products, which can suit each user base. On the Mac for example, iCloud integration is popular, on Windows, nobody cares!

Also, stuff like third party CODECs are popular on Windows, not at all on the Mac, so it's kind of freeing, just to be able to write for one platform, and not have to worry about supporting a feature on the other.

We'll of course attempt to keep the core features the same, but at the same time, we won't hold back on version for the sake of the other.
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Old 07-30-2015   #32
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Hi Garry,

I've downloaded Emulsion for the trial and acquired the manual to read first. Sadly, I've had no time to do anything with it at all this week.

I have a question regarding EXIF and IPTC data.
- Does Emulsion provide access to all the camera-created (or possibly injected by EXIFtool) EXIF data, like EXIFtool does? Or is it a subset similar to what Lightroom presents?

- Does Emulsion read standard IPTC data that might have been embedded in files (JPEG, TIFF, PSD, and PNG) using Lightroom, Adobe Bridge, etc?

- What about raw files? I have both native raw and DNG files. If I import them into LR and add IPTC data to them, then use the Metadata > "Save metadata to file" command, LR embeds any IPTC data into the DNG files and writes .xmp sidecar files to pair with the native raw files. If I import a directory of these files into Emulsion, will it read in the IPTC data from the DNG and the .xmp files?
Thanks! I know a few minutes experimentation would likely answer these questions, but I simply haven't had time to try anything yet. :-\

G
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Old 07-30-2015   #33
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Hi Garry,

I've downloaded Emulsion for the trial and acquired the manual to read first. Sadly, I've had no time to do anything with it at all this week.

I have a question regarding EXIF and IPTC data.
- Does Emulsion provide access to all the camera-created (or possibly injected by EXIFtool) EXIF data, like EXIFtool does? Or is it a subset similar to what Lightroom presents?

- Does Emulsion read standard IPTC data that might have been embedded in files (JPEG, TIFF, PSD, and PNG) using Lightroom, Adobe Bridge, etc?

- What about raw files? I have both native raw and DNG files. If I import them into LR and add IPTC data to them, then use the Metadata > "Save metadata to file" command, LR embeds any IPTC data into the DNG files and writes .xmp sidecar files to pair with the native raw files. If I import a directory of these files into Emulsion, will it read in the IPTC data from the DNG and the .xmp files?
Thanks! I know a few minutes experimentation would likely answer these questions, but I simply haven't had time to try anything yet. :-\

G
Hi Godfrey,
Well, we actually use EXIFTool for access, but some of the more esoteric settings are hidden from the user, but we could likely enable access to all of them easy enough.

We read in XMP data, and it's stored, but we don't do much with it at the moment. However, if you were to read in a file with XML data and export it, those settings wouldn't be exported with it.

I think the simple answer to the last question, is basically 'No', Emulsion doesn't support external .xmp files. I will take a look at these external .xml files, as I've never used them before.

Thanks for the interest, it's interesting to hear about the different requirements people have, stuff I've barely heard of!

Cheers

Garry
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Old 07-30-2015   #34
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I was looking through the Halie web page, but cannot find pictures of the interface, which would be very nice (maybe even a short video?). I did notice a few in your blog though.
My biggest gripe with Lightroom currently (except for the lack of inversion), is the tiny curves adjustment, which I find lacking when making small adjustments. How does your curves tool look?
............
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Old 07-31-2015   #35
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............
Sorry I missed this one somehow, right now Halide does not have a curves tool in the traditional sense, but we've got highlight/shadows tool.

Right now, I think the best thing to do is to try out Halide on the 30 day trial, I'm the first to admit that it's a 1.0 product and we've got work to do, and some people won't be able to leave Lightroom (yet!) but I think for a lot of people, we've got some nice features, it runs fast and we can react fast to user requests.

Cheers

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Old 07-31-2015   #36
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This is great news - thanks for sharing and congratulations on your release. I will D/L and check it out.
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Old 07-31-2015   #37
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Without support for older OS (Mac) I won't be using it. I have no plans to update from Lion due to too many issues with newer OS. I went to Mountain Lion and my Mac Pro will no longer maintain my monitor profile and I constantly get messages popping up. I wound up putting a new SSD in it and going back to Lion.

No Yosemite for me because my Wacom tablet will not work on it.
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Originally Posted by CK Dexter Haven View Post
I dont understand this complaint. Why cant you just delete the 'free' apps you dont need/want? What is actually built in that actually gets in he way and cant be deleted or deactivated? iPhoto? Ive never used it and dont notice that it resides in my apps folder. Theres nothing in the os that shares jpgs or music with the kids unless you tell it to. What am i missing?

<snip>

Okay. Back to the regularly scheduled program.....
I think his main complaint was -- "Mac Pro will no longer maintain my monitor profile." He did not really expand on the symptoms, and as he noted his post was pretty much off-topic.

Which could be rather frustrating, especially if the profile itself is gone after sleep or restarting.

I never have monitor profiles which disappear running Yosemite, but it could be monitor related. My Cinema has some odd behaviors which sometime require me to restart the monitor, all sound related.

Oddly my ancient USB Wacom works fine with Yosemite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_j10xhIi5c
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Old 08-02-2015   #38
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Can I suggest you post some screen shots and discuss features on your web site. In particular, I'm looking for information on filters. I use the graduated filter in LR a lot and would like to determine if your product has that and see what it looks like before I download the trial software.
Will do, and can confirm we do indeed have a grad filter.
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Old 08-02-2015   #39
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Can I suggest you post some screen shots and discuss features on your web site. In particular, I'm looking for information on filters. I use the graduated filter in LR a lot and would like to determine if your product has that and see what it looks like before I download the trial software.
Hi George, I've made some quick changes to the site, so you can get some full size screenshots, and also there is a list of all the filters available.

All the best

Garry
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Old 09-04-2015   #40
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Sheesh, I've had NO time to work with it since I downloaded. Sigh.

What little photo processing I've done I've just used LR since I know it and I'm all set up to use it quickly... :-\

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