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Old 04-25-2017   #41
Ko.Fe.
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Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Maybe I have not made that clear enough.
Not for me, at least.

This is from OP.

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Why is this such a fad these days? "Street"
But "Street" is not such a fad THESE DAYS. It is fad for decades.

People asked what is "street" for years and talk about "street" cameras for years. Like in on-line video with Winogrand and students where Winogrand was asked which camera is better for the street. And he goes on about Leica.

Personally, I don't see any issues with people keep on asking same questions again and again. Should be no issues to use answers from the past and find new ones also
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Old 04-25-2017   #42
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Originally Posted by skopar steve View Post
Because rangefinder cameras are good tools for street photography?
ANY camera is good tool for street photography.

As far as "art" applicable to "street", art is never "what about?" but it's always "how?".
Any object (street, person, dog, car) is only an opportunity to create an expression.

This are examples of art. No factual data to speak of, but beautiful art. On street or inside the house.





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Old 04-25-2017   #43
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Thanks for sharing Mikhail!
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Old 04-25-2017   #44
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Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Thanks for sharing Mikhail!
I wish it was mine :-)

This is Boris Savelev, one of my favorite art photographers...
https://www.michaelhoppengallery.com...elev/overview/
http://www.b-savelev.com/
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Old 04-25-2017   #45
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In Italy do they have threads on via photography
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Old 04-25-2017   #46
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when folks ask me what kind of photographer i am i usually answer 'amateur'...
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Old 04-25-2017   #47
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Originally Posted by back alley View Post
when folks ask me what kind of photographer i am i usually answer 'amateur'...
Same here,

Ive done maybe a dozen paid gigs, surely does not make me a professional.

Cant we upgrade ourselves to hobbyists?
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Old 04-25-2017   #48
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Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Same here,

Ive done maybe a dozen paid gigs, surely does not make me a professional.

Cant we upgrade ourselves to hobbyists?
They say, "amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic".
Completely wrong on many levels, but a nice sound bite :-)
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Old 04-25-2017   #49
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Sometimes, there are a lot of advantages to being an "amateur". I happily let all my medical credentials expire many years ago so that I could deal with medical situations without fear.

Today, when I'm playing "street photographer", it helps to be an amateur photo-enthusiast when people ask me what I'm doing (not necessarily confrontational). As a member of the local "camera club" I can honestly say that I'm in such a club and taking photos as part of an "assignment". Most often, people are actually happy to oblige me and offer to take more photos, or at least any hostility that may have been present previously will have dissipated.

Also, real professional photographers are very, very, very hard on their equipment. As a rule, I do NOT buy used gear that has been owned by a real professional photographer. I chuckle when I see people advertise gear owned by a professional as a positive selling point (even with a premium on price). Often, that's a stretch of the truth, or even an outright falsity, which could be good if I was actually interested.
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Old 04-25-2017   #50
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. . . . real professional photographers are very, very, very hard on their equipment. . . .
Not always. Very few wore out LF cameras, and quite a few made their Nikons last very well. Did you mean "hard on their equipment" in the sense of "wearing it out" (which I have seen) or "hard on their equipment" in the sense of thinking it's macho and "professional" to abuse it?

The latter, of course, is not professional at all. It's just stupid. Yes, there are times when getting the picture is more important than looking after the kit. But it's a big mistake not to look after your kit when you can.

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Old 04-25-2017   #51
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Oh, I was referring to professionals that use their equipment -- a LOT. That high amount of use often results in a gear that's "worn out" and either no longer functioning, or perhaps very near the end of its functional life. I just get a kick out of people who think that such professionally owned and USED gear would command a premium price and make it more attractive to someone like myself, who would be looking at used gear to get something in good shape for less than new price.
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Old 04-25-2017   #52
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I like what I like. Sometimes it is even more appealing when it is mounted on a wall.
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Old 04-25-2017   #53
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I always liked Gary Winnogrand's description of his work, "I'm an animal photographer."
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Old 04-25-2017   #54
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Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
Oh, I was referring to professionals that use their equipment -- a LOT. That high amount of use often results in a gear that's "worn out" and either no longer functioning, or perhaps very near the end of its functional life. I just get a kick out of people who think that such professionally owned and USED gear would command a premium price and make it more attractive to someone like myself, who would be looking at used gear to get something in good shape for less than new price.
Eminently true. An acquaintance who shot glamour professionally wore out several RB67s, which still looked immaculate on the outside. But equally, I don't think many people ever wore out LF gear (and I used to work in a hire studio in London) and many Hasselblads were used for a decade or more.

For that matter, one of my jobs as an assistant was copying slides for audio-visual preparations, putting immense amounts of film through Nikon Fs. I still have one of them somewhere, still in perfect order. All I'm saying is that so-called "professional" wear and tear is more often the result of abuse than of use.

To quote my gaffer from those days, the late Colin Glanfield, "Some people can go for a walk around the block and come back looking as if they and their cameras have just covered a war, and others can cover a war and come back looking as if they and their cameras have been for a walk around the block."

That was the era of Tim Page, whom I used to know reasonably well when he lived in England. His cameras often looked surprisingly good.

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Old 04-25-2017   #55
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This is perhaps the most relevant input I have for this thread: I have done a lot of sports photography at events that I don't even consider real sport.
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Old 04-25-2017   #56
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You know what frustrates me?

"It's not good for shooting street"

"I only shoot street"

"Street photography"

"It will be great for those who do street"

It sounds rediculous!

Hello, My name is Devin, I'm a street carpenter, I only work with wood on the street, my Estwing 16oz hammer is ideal for street carpentry, but my sledge is just to bulky and people really notice how large it is when I'm hammering wood in the street.

--

I love my cameras (tools) and taking photos is the product of my love. I couldnt care less about anyone's opinion of my photos. I am not a photographer! I am an Artist with many tools.

Why is this such a fad these days? "Street"
I dunno, but i have the Estwing 16oz hammer in my home wood shop, and I would not be without it. I have the one with the stacked leather washers. If I lost it, I would have to have another one immediately. I tried their 12oz version, and didn't like it. It seems like just the same head as the 16oz, but with a smaller handle. It just didn't feel right. I'd like a 12 oz with a smaller head, and the full length handle. What do you think?

We now return you to the street photography thread.
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Old 04-25-2017   #57
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Why? Because it's hard to do well! Who cares what it's called.
Yay, Winogrand, Freidlander, and their fans.

Populism? There are oodles of great pictures in folks' foto albums. which were taken over the years. A few might have been taken with Leicas; most were taken with gear like Brownies and Instamatics.

By the way, because my pictures paid the rent only occasionally, I must be an amateur / hobbyist.

And yes, my film Nikons never wore out, even when I used them hard, in bad climates, to make money
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Old 05-11-2017   #58
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Here's what Winogrand had to say about the label street photographer.
The entire piece is good but what is in relevant to this thread is from about 45 secs in through 1:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RM9KcYEYXs
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Old 05-11-2017   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
Here's what Winogrand had to say about the label street photographer.
The entire piece is good but what is in relevant to this thread is from about 45 secs in through 1:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RM9KcYEYXs
In another thread someone cited this extended Winogrand video interview, in which he also addresses "street photography."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wem927v_kpo

I watched it last night and found it well worth the time. The interviewer's voice is enchanting and Winogrand is more forthcoming that his usual cryptic self.

To me, one only has to look at his or Frank's work to answer the question, "Why street?" If you don't see it or feel it there, no amount of verbiage will explain.

John
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Old 05-11-2017   #60
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Thanks for posting that John. I saw that years ago an I will watch it again some time today.

I totally agree with your words in regards to his and Franks work. The Americans is truly one of the really great photography books and either you feel it or you don't....
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Old 05-11-2017   #61
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Thanks for posting that John. I saw that years ago an I will watch it again some time today.

I totally agree with your words in regards to his and Franks work. The Americans is truly one of the really great photography books and either you feel it or you don't....
I've always been partial to Frank for his poetic quality. But the more I've looked at Winogrand over the years, the more I've grown to appreciate him.

In a way I feel that street photography has nowhere to go after them. In the music world I'm constantly amazed at how artists keep inventing new music and musical permutations using the same relatively small universe of notes. Not so with street photography.

Should that stop us? I don't think so. As long as we're pushing ourselves to create work that WE'VE never created before, that seems good enough to me.

John
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Old 05-11-2017   #62
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Good post John. I shoot there (on the streets) because I am addicted to the free form, jazz like quality, of working on the street. Making some kind of visual sense out of chaos. Like say a jazz musician you take what your influences are and a dash of this a little of that mix it all up and try to make it yours in some way and do it spontaneously. I feel that if you are to a point where people start recognizing work as yours before they see who took the photograph you are starting to get there.

I think that a lot of folks that rip on the genre are usually ones that don't like or understand it. Many that are photographers that don't like it are photographers that want to plan a shoot and they want to direct it like it's a movie. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I do some of that during the week. It's my job to work with others to get what the client wants. Maybe it's the total freeform aspect of the streets that I find interesting.

But when you hit the streets it takes a very different sensitivity to be able to see it in the moment and then have the skill to capture what you have just seen. It's not perfect and in reality the perfect photograph has not been taken, though I would argue that Frank, Winogrand, Weston, Adams and a few others came pretty close. And in really it becomes more about bodies of work and how that work relates, in some way, to the creator.

I agree that as long as we are pushing our vision and trying not to repeat ourselves and still retain a bit of something that makes it ours it is definitely good. We take all that we have learned and all those that have influenced us and in some way and try and make it our own.
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Old 05-11-2017   #63
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Inciting photographic interest beyond the "private" to the near "public", there you need a cool looking camera.
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Old 05-11-2017   #64
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...

Should that stop us? I don't think so. As long as we're pushing ourselves to create work that WE'VE never created before, that seems good enough to me.

John
I'm with you on this. Well said. Thanks.
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Old 05-11-2017   #65
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I'm with you on this. Well said. Thanks.
Dear Jamie,

Same here.

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Old 05-11-2017   #66
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I've always been partial to Frank for his poetic quality. But the more I've looked at Winogrand over the years, the more I've grown to appreciate him.

In a way I feel that street photography has nowhere to go after them. In the music world I'm constantly amazed at how artists keep inventing new music and musical permutations using the same relatively small universe of notes. Not so with street photography.

Should that stop us? I don't think so. As long as we're pushing ourselves to create work that WE'VE never created before, that seems good enough to me.

John
Perfecto! I like what John is saying. I like "Americans" by Evans and my biggest photobook is by GW.
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Old 05-11-2017   #67
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I like to photograph in interesting cities due to the infinite possibilities for content and the way the sun will make the same scene totally different throughout the day, week, or year. However, photographing in the country is fun as well. As long as a place is interesting in, at least, providing for interesting composition possibilities, I'm ok. I've always wondered why I like to continuously put a frame around something and I don't know the answer. It's such a simple exercise, but always fun to do. Walking the streets is a great way to get to really know the surface of a place.
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Old 05-11-2017   #68
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i think this thread is a no-win situation...as usual here at rff we have separated into the art vs. gear camps.
i have shot all types of cameras both off and off the street...so, while i love gear it does not set my artistic preference.
the little hairs on the back of my neck (no bald jokes, please...) get all prickly when street is talked about as populist or some new form of shooting that has just recently emerged...because this is not the case.

Photography vs. Camera gear Camps?


I know several people who have (had) built really expensive hot rods. They are never driven.
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Old 05-11-2017   #69
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I know several people who have (had) built really expensive hot rods. They are never driven.
Yep. My dad always drove his hot rods to shows and he told me about the types that brought theirs in on a flatbed.
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Old 05-11-2017   #70
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Yep. My dad always drove his hot rods to shows and he told me about the types that brought theirs in on a flatbed.
It's kinda funny. I've seen some "drivers" (cars that get constant use for the non motor heads) that look like they are on the way to the Junker, until you look closely. Expensive tires, body sits a bit lower than normal.. and when the rusty hood is popped, there is a $75,000 Keith Black engine sitting there, smiling back at you.

Kind of like some photographers. You don't know, till you get a look under the hood.
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