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Was just buying film, and I found our conversation funny..
Old 12-19-2013   #1
kennylovrin
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Was just buying film, and I found our conversation funny..

So I just picked up some film and developer so that I don't run out during the holidays. It's a great little shop that is more or less purely analog still and the owner likes to talk, and so do I.

We were discussing shooting film, and I said that I haven't been doing it for that long but I am really enjoying it and so on. We talked about a bit cameras, and the conversation kind of went like this (I own an M2 and an M9 for reference):

me: "I purchased an M2, I really like it!"
him: "Oh, yeah that is nice!"
me: "Sometimes I think I might end up shooting only film soon and no digital"
him: "Well you can always get a digital leica for the odd digital shot, when you're set up really well financially, hehe! (smirky, referencing the cost)".
me: "Uhm.. yeah, hehe".

Then I was about to leave the store with my stuff..

him: "So what do you shoot with now then, the M2 and..?"
me: "Well, I have a digital Leica as well.."
he: "Oh, ok!"
me: "I have a too good day job.."

I don't know, perhaps it doesn't come through in text, but it was very funny. And it is also interesting that it's not the first time that it happens to me that it is joked about, and that sometimes it's like people almost tries to make fun of you for owning a very expensive camera. (In this case it didn't feel like that though).

I stumbled upon a guy on the street once that stopped me and said "Is that a Leica? Makes me all warm inside when I see it, I have been a photographer for 30 years". Then he asked me what it cost, I told him, and he says "Well, at least it looks better than your tshirt if you want to look cool". wtf? Just because I don't dress in a suit, or what? haha

Anyway, just felt like sharing, I have nothing better to do..

Kenny
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Old 12-19-2013   #2
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Yeah well I find I defend my purchase all the time, but that is part of my personality I think, I just want to explain why I do/get something so that others won't think I'm nuts. It's not a good thing and I'm trying to stop, but I do it..

I did tell my girlfriend last fall "One day I will own a Leica because I want to". When I did have the money I needed I just couldn't justify the purchase, because I didn't really need the camera, I just wanted it, but I had the money and I wasn't going to use them for anything else really. And my girlfriend and one of my best friends said to me "it's y our money, do what the hell you want with them" when I started saying things like "but people are going to think I'm a moron if I pay that much for a camera".

The fact is, that since I got the M9 which I really wanted, nothing else has really interested me, so in that sense it hasn't been more expensive than the handfull of other digital cameras that was passing through my home before I got the Leica.

Then again, I have also worked hard to afford it, just not in the photography business..

But yeah, I do feel I need to justify it all the time for people, and it is annoying.

EDIT:
I forgot to add the thing I was actually going to write: Great photos in that article, the one with the boxers is really great!
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Old 12-19-2013   #3
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Most of the time people will compliment my cameras and be genuine. Most haters are too afraid to say something. However, I once had a run-in with a guy in his 70s. I was out with the M9 and a Voigtlander 50mm 3.5 lens and I saw this firehouse that I wanted to photograph. The 70 year old guy was talking on his phone and started talking about me and my camera to the guy on the phone... something to the effect of "yeah, he's got a Leica and some antique lens." So, he gets off the phone and asks about the lens. I tell him it is new and not old, blah, blah, blah, etc. He says "Get a real camera like a Canon" and walks away very quickly. I felt like I was back in high school dealing with a 14 year old.
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Old 12-19-2013   #4
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Most of the time people will compliment my cameras and be genuine. Most haters are too afraid to say something. However, I once had a run-in with a guy in his 70s. I was out with the M9 and a Voigtlander 50mm 3.5 lens and I saw this firehouse that I wanted to photograph. The 70 year old guy was talking on his phone and started talking about me and my camera to the guy on the phone... something to the effect of "yeah, he's got a Leica and some antique lens." So, he gets off the phone and asks about the lens. I tell him it is new and not old, blah, blah, blah, etc. He says "Get a real camera like a Canon" and walks away very quickly. I felt like I was back in high school dealing with a 14 year old.
haha, that is too good.
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Old 12-19-2013   #5
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kennylovrin: your girlfriend and your other friend are right.

rivercityrocker: I enjoyed your article--especially the photos! But was amused by the icons/buttons at the bottom of the page. Well, by the one for "image processing", anyway!
Rob
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Old 12-19-2013   #6
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Perhaps oddly I am finding fewer people know what a Leica is let alone an M reference. I live in a nice suburb of Philadelphia.
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Old 12-19-2013   #7
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i just remembered another time actually, when I was at a flickr meetup.. i wasn't the only one with a leica there, but a guy comes up to me and one of the other guys with a leica, asking to check out our cameras. he was asking questions like "what, does it not autofocus" and other classics like that, then finally after hearing what they cost (all price ranges, from the cheaper M2 to the M9) he drops "capitalist swine!". he was obviously joking, and I don't easily get offended, but it is still typical somehow.

and it's funny especially in that context, where every other person has a 5dmkiii and a bag full of lenses. but it's the leica shooters that bring an m2 and one lens that gets to take the heat from others.
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Old 12-19-2013   #8
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Originally Posted by ray*j*gun View Post
Perhaps oddly I am finding fewer people know what a Leica is let alone an M reference. I live in a nice suburb of Philadelphia.
yes, it's not that common that "everyone" knows what a leica is actually, but most people think it looks nice/beautiful/simple or whatever, and with that usually comes the question "is it expensive?", and that always seem to lead to some kind of semi-joke comment on either how it was a ****ty purchase (referencing tech specs) or that you basically have too much money.
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Old 12-19-2013   #9
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Originally Posted by rbiemer View Post
kennylovrin: your girlfriend and your other friend are right.
Yes, hence I went out and bought my M9. But I needed that "push" to be able to actually go through with it without caring about "others' opinions".
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Old 12-19-2013   #10
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Originally Posted by rivercityrocker View Post
Thanks for the compliment. I'll tell you what, shooting a championship heavyweight boxing match with an M8 and an old 50 Lux was not easy. And that was a paid gig. I had to bring in good shots. I put myself out on a limb shooting that gig with a MF camera that is "terrible in low light". The challenge was worth it. I felt like I actually achieved something.
As a hobbyist, I am in no way comparing myself to you here just so you know. But that shot of the boxes made me think about myself when I was trying to shoot some thai boxing with my M9 earlier this year. I was a spectator so I didn't get very close to the ring itself and so on, but it certainly wasn't easy. But it was one of the most fun things I've ever shot I think!
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Old 12-19-2013   #11
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If a stranger says anything about my equipment - whether it's my Monochrom or my Nikon equipment etc - they often say 'you must be a good photographer!'. I usually reply that all it demonstrates is that I know how to spend money - and I'm very good at that!
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Old 12-19-2013   #12
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I hate when I get asked about my M2 .. "hey, is that one of those fake vintage cameras?" .. WTF?
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Old 12-19-2013   #13
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Originally Posted by k__43 View Post
I hate when I get asked about my M2 .. "hey, is that one of those fake vintage cameras?" .. WTF?
I uploaded some tri-x shots to flickr once. I had shot them with my M6 that I owned then, and it was from a party with work. The place we had rented was somewhat "hipsterish" in it's styling, and a guy on Flickr commented something that seemed he was trying to say that he was so tired of hipsters faking retro and so on. he kind of changed his mind though when i noted that i had actually shot it on film and so on. but it's funny how he assumed it was digitally filtered, even when i had tagged it both with the film and the camera.
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Old 12-19-2013   #14
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Originally Posted by rivercityrocker View Post
I don't mind comparisons. There are plenty of hobbyists that are easily as good as I am or better. But yeah, I find that the fun factor is increased by the difficulty. If you're not challenging yourself then what's the point?
I might make it even weirder by doing this, but you just made me realize I hadn't uploaded any of the shots I talked about since I started moving over from Flickr to Tumblr, and because I enjoyed it so much I just wanted to share them with you now that I have uploaded them. Too bad I couldn't avoid the fence (do you call it that in english?), but like I said, really enjoyed shooting them: http://kennylovrin.se/post/704856818...-february-2013
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Old 12-19-2013   #15
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I concur with the other comments about the article and the shots in it, RCR. Well done!

I know what you guys mean about having to defend your purchases. I have four Leica bodies, and I have less invested in ALL of them than a new M9-P alone (or the latest flagship Canikons.)

One of the great things about being in my late '50s though, is that I absolutely confuse the h*ll out of people. My hair is past my shoulders (what hair I have left) and is quite dark yet, and wavy. I wear a trimmed, but full beard. I'm just as comfortable in levis and t-shirts as a three piece suit and tend to wear function-appropriate dress... but my age, hair and beard just causes people not to quite be able to categorize me easily, and I enjoy their curiosity and inability to put me in a box.

It also makes it easy to say: "oh, they're just Leicas... they get the job done," when asked. That also tends to shut down a lot of the other inane conversation that seems to come with folks who notice them.

You can't take your money with you, and you might as well be comfortable and enjoy what you shoot. I take the same approach with cars and bicycles.
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Old 12-19-2013   #16
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Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
I concur with the other comments about the article and the shots in it, RCR. Well done!

I know what you guys mean about having to defend your purchases. I have four Leica bodies, and I have less invested in ALL of them than a new M9-P alone (or the latest flagship Canikons.)

One of the great things about being in my late '50s though, is that I absolutely confuse the h*ll out of people. My hair is past my shoulders (what hair I have left) and is quite dark yet, and wavy. I wear a trimmed, but full beard. I'm just as comfortable in levis and t-shirts as a three piece suit and tend to wear function-appropriate dress... but my age, hair and beard just causes people not to quite be able to categorize me easily, and I enjoy their curiosity and inability to categorize me easily.

It also makes it easy to say: "oh, they're just Leicas... they get the job done," when asked. That also tends to shut down a lot of the other inane conversation that seems to come with folks who notice them.

You can't take your money with you, and you might as well be comfortable and enjoy what you shoot. I take the same approach with cars and bicycles.
age is an interesting aspect, usually when i get snarky comments it actually from men that are obviously 20+ years older than i am. i am not super young (32) but I make enough to buy myself a leica (but it doesn't mean i don't feel the expense in my account balance), and i suspect sometimes older men have a problem with that.. even my dad who has been a mechanic all his life has a problem accepting that his son makes more than him by "sitting at a computer all day".
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Old 12-19-2013   #17
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Originally Posted by rivercityrocker View Post
We call them "ropes". Even up close they still get in the way.
Those are good shots! I really like the one with the young kid with the money in his mouth.
Thanks! I remember clearly shooting that as I had to be very quick when he was just stopping by, and I saw it on the screen and I thought to myself "I am happy with that!", but then I realized I missed focus quite a bit when I viewed it on my computer... But who cares.. I guess the focus being on the money instead of the eyes works as well in a sense.. But it wasn't what I intended, haha.

EDIT:
I just realized we call them "ropes" in swedish as well, but the swedish word of course.. I wonder where I got "fence" from, as it doesn't make any sense at all in Swedish either.. hehe
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Old 12-19-2013   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercityrocker View Post
I look pretty cruddy most of the time so nobody ever accuses me of being a "rich Leica snob" (at least not in person, on the interwebs all the time). But the thing that burns me up is when I get called a "hipster". One of my first cameras was a Ricoh 35s rangefinder. And that was over two decades ago. If anything, I'm like the godfather of hipster. Too old to be a hipster, but the hipsters have stolen my style!
You're too young to be the 'original hipster.' I bought my first rangefinder setup in 1973. I was shooting 1/4 mile dirt track stock car races at night under the lights on HS Ektachrome 160 with an (even-then-antique) early-cold-war-vintage Canon IIF and an 85mm Serenar f/2!

Of course, 'hipster' wasn't invented then. The guys I was shooting with all just thought I was a masochist or something. They were shooting with Nikon Fs in those days. From our perspective today, they weren't a lot more technologically advanced.
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Old 12-19-2013   #19
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Originally Posted by kennylovrin View Post
age is an interesting aspect, usually when i get snarky comments it actually from men that are obviously 20+ years older than i am. i am not super young (32) but I make enough to buy myself a leica (but it doesn't mean i don't feel the expense in my account balance), and i suspect sometimes older men have a problem with that.. even my dad who has been a mechanic all his life has a problem accepting that his son makes more than him by "sitting at a computer all day".
I was able to retire at 55, and my youngest son started working that same year, right out of college. He too "sits at a computer all day" and his starting salary was only a couple of thousand dollars less than what I made when I retired! I couldn't be more happy for, or proud of him.

Good on ya!
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Old 12-19-2013   #20
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I was able to retire at 55, and my youngest son started working that same year, right out of college. He too "sits at a computer all day" and his starting salary was only a couple of thousand dollars less than what I made when I retired! I couldn't be more happy for, or proud of him.

Good on ya!
that's good, i probably sold my father a bit short there, i don't think he has an actual problem with it, but it gets commented on now and then. I can understand that though to be honest.
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Old 12-19-2013   #21
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Funny, I was shooting a concert the other day with my "fake vintage Dƒ" and someone asked me if it was a real vintage film camera.
..........
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Old 12-19-2013   #22
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Originally Posted by rivercityrocker View Post
One of my first cameras was a Ricoh 35s rangefinder. And that was over two decades ago. If anything, I'm like the godfather of hipster. Too old to be a hipster, but the hipsters have stolen my style!
The first camera I purchased was a Holga around 2005 - years before hipsters became a thing, or the world was introduced to "Lomography" and Urban Outfitters. I always got a laugh that I had the gold standard of hipster photo gear before the hipsters thought it was cool. Does that make people like us... proto-hipsters? Hipster-prime?
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Old 12-19-2013   #23
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The first camera I purchased was a Holga around 2005 - years before hipsters became a thing, or the world was introduced to "Lomography" and Urban Outfitters. I always got a laugh that I had the gold standard of hipster photo gear before the hipsters thought it was cool. Does that make people like us... proto-hipsters? Hipster-prime?
Man, I had a Diana and Holga in 1994. I out-hipstered you...

So, who among us had a Fuji Pet in the 60s? They would win the ultimate proto-hipster prize. eek

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fujipet
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Old 12-19-2013   #24
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Remember that old motorcycle slogan, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda..."?

I've found with my cameras, "you meet the rudest people when you have a Leica."
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Old 12-19-2013   #25
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Folks, for Barnack's sake, I stopped using Dianas around 1977 ;-)
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Old 12-19-2013   #26
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The few times I've gotten comments while out shooting landscapes has been when I'm using a telephoto lens (usually white). I guess people equate a large lens with expensive, and they're not far off. I just answer somehow and move on.

"Seeing as you have nothing better to do, check out my latest article. "
http://www.dpmag.com/how-to/shooting...k-a-white.html
rivercityrocker - Great article. I'm hoping one of my two boys will get interested in photography, but I won't be pushing anyone to go professional as I was. Your article is a great way to feed some interest as it is clear and simple, but with enough technical info to make the reader want to try out a technique. Thanks for the link.
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Old 12-19-2013   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercityrocker View Post

Seeing as you have nothing better to do, check out my latest article.
http://www.dpmag.com/how-to/shooting...k-a-white.html

5 out of 7 of the images was shot with a Leica.
Don't want to derail the thread but just wanted to mention that I enjoyed this article also. Thanks for posting it.
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Old 12-19-2013   #28
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Originally Posted by goamules View Post
Remember that old motorcycle slogan, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda..."?

I've found with my cameras, "you meet the rudest people when you have a Leica."
I found a film blog by a gentleman in Edinburgh (very nice blog) who actually identifies Leica users on the street. He then runs up, photographs them with his "vintage" contraption and posts their respective photos on his said blog. He does this to embarrass them. I might add that the Leica users do look startled, confused, embarrassed. I suppose that's his intent. Do Leica users deserve that? I don't know. Maybe some.

I have to work in Edinburgh in January so I hope he doesn't spot me. I'd post a link but his blog would register a ping-back which may induce him to show up here to fight the Holy Wars. We could do without that.

Anyway, love your article and photos rivercity!
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Old 12-19-2013   #29
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I found a film blog by a gentleman in Edinburgh (very nice blog) who actually identifies Leica users on the street.
Can I have a link?
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Old 12-19-2013   #30
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Strange as it seems, but when I'm out with the Frankencamera on the end of a tripod, everyone notices,but absolutely no one remarks! And really,who cares?
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Old 12-19-2013   #31
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"Hipster dom" depende on age too. I am 70 and being a hipster means that my right hip-joint is painful! Don't now why it is the right one either - as I have been carrying a camera bag on my left shoulder for more than 5 decades! Should have been the left one that got whacked.
As for Leica and comments. A beater black M2 gets a fair bit of attention "Is that an old Leica film camera?" and the inevitable "can you still get film for it?". I have been using a chrome M-Nokton on a black M2 for a while - and that lens gets a lot of comments "Wow, thats a cool looking lens - is it old?" When you tell that it is new they are even more impressed.
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Old 12-19-2013   #32
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People have asked me how much my M4 cost, which I think is somewhat strange - I have never asked anyone with such a camera myself. But then again, I'm not in the practice of asking people how much any of their possessions cost. People ask about cost when I'm out with my Rolleiflex, too, but more often they ask where I get film for that old thing
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Old 12-19-2013   #33
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I've only had one experience with my M3 while out shooting. I had it and a Summitar in hand and was snapping photos of a pedestrian bridge by the river. An older man approached me after waiting for me to get the shot, complimented my camera and then told me about his Leicas over the years. I've had similar with my Yashica MAT 124G as well.

I've had the opposite kind of thing with the Nikon gear, I use N90s/F90x bodies since they are cheap and do all the stuff my DSLR Nikons do and I've had lots of comments on my "digital camera" from people who I think mean well and even think they maybe know stuff about Nikons. A few people have even made comments that make it sound like they think it's a digital body and they are knowledgeable enough to know that.

I don't own a Leica digital because the cost is just well outside of my personal budget. I am not a pro, I do not get paid anything for my photography nor do I have any means to do so. I "make do" with my many film and digital cameras and am quite happy. But, I will one day purchase a Leica digital body for the experience and the feel their bodies have. If anyone here would like to buy a lung or perhaps one of my brother's children or trade for M240 or Monochrome, message me.
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Old 12-19-2013   #34
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I've had a few encounters. The M is just such a weird shape especially with a grip and vented lens hood.

One was pretty cool in Annapolis, Maryland. I had the family puppy and my M6, and a woman, a professional photographer by trade, wanted both the puppy and my camera. I let her hold both, and she commented she had always wanted a Leica M but couldn't justify they cost.

I never get upset or self conscious about carrying the camera. People are surprised where I take it but I mostly know that no one knows what it is.... Its expensive, but so is your car, and you still drive it everywhere.
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Old 12-19-2013   #35
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One guy once noted how it was impossible someone as young as me could afford a Leica.

Definitely plenty of interesting stories while out with a Leica
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Old 12-19-2013   #36
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Can I have a link?
Sure. PMing it now. - Rory
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Old 12-19-2013   #37
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Once in awhile someone will comment on my M9, but not very often. However, go out with the Rolleiflex or one of my old folders and I get pestered all the time.
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Old 12-19-2013   #38
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When I bought a Monochrom, 18 months after an M9-P, the guys in the shop were suitably reverent of the thing itself and kindly urging me to take some worthy pictures with it. They've seen a few of my photos, including a few of my abject failures, but also the occasional good ones straight from the lab. They know I'm not hopeless. In a funny way the expense takes the acquisition of these cameras well beyond some idle boast to the territory of immediate acceptance that the guy is deadly serious. I liked the note those guys struck with me that morning, and I in turn tried to be suitably humble about having the good fortune to own such a thing. I was told to return with some impressive prints and I promised it would be that or never darkening their doorstep again if I couldn't deliver.

I've recently joined a photographic group. The guys (and in the New Year two women) are all good and the group has formed by invitation. Me turning up in the evening in a jacket and tie from my professional day job with a long history of shooting Leicas might have had me typecast but we show our photographs and for the guys in their 20s to the two in their 70s that's all that counts. I was so pleased that a dentist I know turned out to be one of this group and I did not follow my father into dentistry so this subverted any possibility of me being the class joke.

I always think of the money so many people drop in ten years buying cars - the arbitrary extra expense of a brand or model which sees more than $8k evaporate in the few seconds it takes to drive the car out of the dealer's yard.
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Old 12-19-2013   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbuzz
I found a film blog by a gentleman in Edinburgh (very nice blog) who actually identifies Leica users on the street.


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Sure. PMing it now. - Rory
hey ... how about the rest of us !

I've been known to walk about Edinburgh, but have not been caught on camera ... to my knowledge
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Old 12-19-2013   #40
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I have been using a chrome M-Nokton on a black M2 for a while - and that lens gets a lot of comments "Wow, thats a cool looking lens - is it old?" When you tell that it is new they are even more impressed.
I sometimes think that they don't actually believe the answer in these situations.

I haven't had a black Leica since the early '90s. I really didn't know what i would do about the odd combination of my many chrome lenses on the Monochrom. I've read of duplicating one's lenses in black but I consider that excessive. Turns out that when I put my chrome 50 Elmar M on the Monochrom it completely silences anyone who might have dared comment.
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