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LA woman stabbed, killed taking pictures of homeless
Old 06-19-2013   #1
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LA woman stabbed, killed taking pictures of homeless

From PetaPixel:

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A young woman was fatally stabbed last night after photographing homeless men holding offensive signs while begging in Hollywood.

The Los Angeles Times reports that 23-year-old Christina Calderon of Lynwood, California was walking with her friend at the intersection of Hollywood Boulevard and Highland Avenue at 8pm last night when they noticed the three men begging for money with signs laden with obscenities.

After pulling out her cell phone and snapping a photograph of the transients, the men began demanding money in exchange for the photos. When the two women refused to hand over money, they were attacked, and Calderon was stabbed in the torso. She was taken to a local hospital, where she later died of her injuries during surgery.

The place where the attack took place is an area that’s bustling with tourists. Attractions there include Grauman’s Chinese Theatre and the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
Take care out there shooting on the streets, people.
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Old 06-19-2013   #2
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When asked for money I always pay. However, my opinion on this particular incident is that some people should be rather shot with guns than with cameras
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Old 06-19-2013   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
When asked for money I always pay. However, my opinion on this particular incident is that some people should be rather shot with guns than with cameras
Wow, advocating people getting shot with a gun "just in case".
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Old 06-20-2013   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
Wow, advocating people getting shot with a gun "just in case".
I don't think that's what they meant. Maybe more along the lines of murderers should get shot with a gun rather than a camera. (and the comment seems tongue in cheek at that)
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Old 06-20-2013   #5
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Photographing these types of people is high risk IMO because they may be very unpredictable. I seem to remember Juan Valdenebro (RFFer) getting attacked in Spain when shooting in a red light district.

Tragedy though!
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Old 06-20-2013   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
I don't think that's what they meant. Maybe more along the lines of murderers should get shot with a gun rather than a camera. (and the comment seems tongue in cheek at that)
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Old 06-20-2013   #7
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A tragic story no doubt but one that I'm surprised we don't hear more often. With the proliferation of cameras and camera phones as well as the Flickeratti that seem to specialise in images of the homeless its a wonder there aren't more of these attacks. Sense and sensibility goes out the window when some people have a camera in hand.

Not to say some issues aren't to be photographed, simply that some issues require some level of thought before engaging.
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Old 06-20-2013   #8
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But that's in a public place and the homeless guys were clearly looking for attention. Otherwise, I agree about the usual lack of sense and sensibility when shooting these subjects.
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Old 06-20-2013   #9
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Want to hear more detail. The article implied the man could be pro. Bait people to take picture (with the eye catching sign in a tourist spot) and demand money.

Did he even feel offended and refuse having his picture taken ?
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Old 06-20-2013   #10
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Voyerism can do bad to people. Even photographers get wound and hurt, with all their knowledge and experience. She did wrong thing at a wrong place and time. Some people get stabbed without even reaching for a camera, just because they look wrong. RIP.

Once I were attacked by a woman, which turned out to be a GF of a local mighty one. And picture weren't worth all that hassle, honestly. But I had to do this to learn it. Not all lessons come so easy, though....
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Old 06-20-2013   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluka View Post
Want to hear more detail. The article implied the man could be pro. Bait people to take picture (with the eye catching sign in a tourist spot) and demand money.

Did he even feel offended and refuse having his picture taken ?
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...,7409712.story

Doesn't give much more detail, but it does say the allegedly homeless men are in custody.
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Old 06-20-2013   #12
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How sad! Indeed things can really go wrong when shooting strangers like that. A couple of years ago I had been shooting street people. At the stairs of a church, I had spotted someone sitting with his head on his knees and his hand stretched begging for money. A click and... He'd looked at me with a pissed-off stare, started rising, rising, and rising... I don't remember ever having seen anybody taller than him in my life nor me running that fast as on that day.
Of course, now I am more cautious with strangers than ever.
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Old 06-20-2013   #13
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Sad story no doubt.

I will only add that in the last few years, ESPECIALLY in the USA, I'm much more cautious regarding people on the street who don't seem to be actively doing much. (Loiterers?) Unless I had a real purpose, such as a photographic project (in which case I woulod try to engage them first), I would not waste time or effort photographing them. Nor take the risk.

This is because there is a real epidemic of drug abuse (e.g., methamphetamines) in the USA in the past few years, and this type of drug can make addicts unpredictable, violent, and desperate for money to obtain more drug.

Be careful people!
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Old 06-20-2013   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
. . . . Doesn't give much more detail, but it does say the allegedly homeless men are in custody.
This is good. Hopefully justice will be swift and with as little mercy as this woman was given !
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Old 06-20-2013   #15
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Something tells me there is more to this... like the woman who made the photograph said the wrong thing after being asked for cash.
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Old 06-20-2013   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Something tells me there is more to this... like the woman who made the photograph said the wrong thing after being asked for cash.
Not necessarily. In many parts of the world, taking pictures of beggars, homeless people, or others that tourists often photograph, the subjects often demand money. Refusing them can be, in some cases, quite risky.
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Old 06-20-2013   #17
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I used to take late night photos of homeless people on New Orleans before I was married. Now I behave differently to reduce the risk of being harmed.

I also suspect that narcotics played a role in the California murder.
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Old 06-20-2013   #18
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99% of pictures taken of the homeless are exploitive, so demanding cash from one's exploiter makes a perverse kind of sense.
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Old 06-20-2013   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srtiwari View Post
Not necessarily. In many parts of the world, taking pictures of beggars, homeless people, or others that tourists often photograph, the subjects often demand money. Refusing them can be, in some cases, quite risky.
I highly doubt that this was solely over the photo. I'm sure the exchange after the photo is what set this off. I could be wrong, but in the tourist section of town, I doubt the "homeless" were just hoping to be able to stab someone with others around watching.
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Old 06-20-2013   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Something tells me there is more to this... like the woman who made the photograph said the wrong thing after being asked for cash.
And what may I ask would the "wrong thing" be? "please stab me to death" ?
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Old 06-20-2013   #21
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Without knowing for sure, it is useless to speculate whether or not either of the women said something that caused the reaction. But what if they did? Stabbing someone, not in self defense or defense of someone you are legally allowed to defend, is a violation of law. If the stabbed person dies as a result of being stabbed, it is some form of murder or manslaughter.

I'm sure it wasn't what was intended, but to say or imply the women brought on themselves is to blame the victim rather than the perpetrator. Granted, they might have made better choices, but in a high tourist area, they probably felt safer.
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Old 06-20-2013   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
And what may I ask would the "wrong thing" be? "please stab me to death" ?
Disrespect to the people with signs, perceived entitlement of the stab victim?

Don't tell me you simple believe the story as written? AND no, I'm not saying they deserved it at all. The news never tells the whole story though.
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Old 06-20-2013   #23
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I think we need to keep in mind that the blame lays squarely on the beggars and not the photographer.

Telling a photog' to eff off is one thing but there is never any excuse for stabbing someone, except (maybe) in self-defence.

These people were clearly a few cans short of a six pack.
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Old 06-20-2013   #24
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The incident occurred in a high-tourist area. Tons of people on the street. Taking photographs of the homeless is a gamble. Quite a few homeless people are unstable psychologically. The homeless are homeless for a variety of reasons. Taking pictures of the homeless, is preying on a segment of society that cannot protect itself in the most obvious of ways that we, ourselves, can. It is a marginalized part of our culture that society does not fully address as much as it needs to.

A tragic incident nonetheless.
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Old 06-20-2013   #25
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Looks like a more accurate headline would be "LA woman stabbed, killed for refusing to give money after taking pictures of homeless"

A tragic story.
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Old 06-20-2013   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Disrespect to the people with signs, perceived entitlement of the stab victim?

Don't tell me you simple believe the story as written? AND no, I'm not saying they deserved it at all. The news never tells the whole story though.
I don't see what's unbelievable about it. Worse has happened to people for less than declining to give money to somebody on the street.
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Old 06-20-2013   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A. View Post
Wow, advocating people getting shot with a gun "just in case".
Obviously, you don't grasp sarcasm. I got it, why can't you?
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Old 06-20-2013   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
I don't think that's what they meant. Maybe more along the lines of murderers should get shot with a gun rather than a camera. (and the comment seems tongue in cheek at that)
Exactly what I thought.
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Old 06-20-2013   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
I don't see what's unbelievable about it. Worse has happened to people for less than declining to give money to somebody on the street.
Of course it has... people kill for fun at times. However, generally not in a public tourist spot. That is why I believe there is more to this story than someone didn't get paid.
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Old 06-20-2013   #30
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Very bad news...

have to admit many times i simply don´t shoot...

Beggars at least in my country aren´t very dangerous, but going into night They perhaps are a bit drunk, stoned or simply tired and this posibilty makes it a gamble to go shooting them...

When things can be complicated i always talk to people first...because someone can change his her behavieor dramatically during the day/night....or in front of a camera...
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Old 06-20-2013   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbg32 View Post
...Taking photographs of the homeless is a gamble. Quite a few homeless people are unstable psychologically. The homeless are homeless for a variety of reasons. Taking pictures of the homeless, is preying on a segment of society that cannot protect itself in the most obvious of ways that we, ourselves, can. It is a marginalized part of our culture that society does not fully address as much as it needs to.
This is spot-on. Walking among and interacting with inner-city homeless folks is much like swimming with sharks. Most of the time they'll just check you out for the sake of curiosity. Once in a while one will try to eat you.

This was a tragic incident.

I was a cop for 30 years and worked areas with large homeless populations for several years.

Those of us who are financially capable of owning and using cameras live in a much different world than those who are being photographed on the street. When you venture into that world, you abandon the relatively safe world you (we) live in, and enter into a very dark, violent, and different world where people are beaten or killed for blankets, half a bottle of booze, or a misplaced insult. It is an unseen war zone that is nestled, hidden and forgotten, inside every city in the US. In that world there are only predators and victims. They all try to get along the best they can, but they're merely existing. No one "lives" in that world in the traditional sense as we here contemplate "living."

People who live on the streets are unpredictable and do not share the societal norms that those of us who post here take for granted. When you take to the streets to photograph that world, you leave the relative safety of "our" world behind, and you enter "their" world. If you're going to be in that world, you need to be prepared to become a part of that world and all that entails. If you don't have the survival skills to successfully navigate "their" world, then you probably ought not be there.

ON EDIT: It's also important to remember that our jails and prisons are now the largest mental-health provider systems in the country, and that for many of the homeless, particularly those with severe mental health issues, our jails and prisons (as bad as they are) are a much better, safer (for them,) and preferable place to be than on the street.
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Last edited by hepcat : 06-20-2013 at 04:49. Reason: add another thought
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Old 06-20-2013   #32
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Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
And what may I ask would the "wrong thing" be? "please stab me to death" ?
I'm always tempted in this situation to tell the beggar to get the money from my 40% partner at the IRS...

Now, I just pretend I didn't hear them.
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Old 06-20-2013   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluka View Post
Want to hear more detail. The article implied the man could be pro. Bait people to take picture (with the eye catching sign in a tourist spot) and demand money.

Did he even feel offended and refuse having his picture taken ?
that could be true in, the area I live in there are professional beggers on street corners asking for money for all kinds of reasons.

that is the sad story indeed.
If I'm going to take a picture of a homeless person I will usually talk to them first and get an idea of Thier state of mind.
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Old 06-20-2013   #34
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A violent act such as this one could never be justified or excused.

This said, the so called street photography has now become a trendy activity. The idea is to go out, take zillions of pictures of everything and everybody and then possibly ending up with few decent images.

There are even courses, where, after forking out hundreds, self acclaimed specialist teach you how to become blunt enough to put your lenses few inches away from everyone nose. Candid shot is the way to go, you just can't be too close.

Picturing homeless, poverty, distress makes you even more a real street photographer...

With the number of such artists growing, there is a slight possibility that those turning into involuntary subjects get fed up and start not to enjoy the game any more...
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Old 06-20-2013   #35
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Originally Posted by fberna View Post

This said, the so called street photography has now become a trendy activity.
How did you quantify the present vs. the past? I don't see tons of street photographers in NYC. If it was truly trendy, I think I would see more.

Quote:
The idea is to go out, take zillions of pictures of everything and everybody and then possibly ending up with few decent images.
Hmmm, this is what many successful people do too.
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Old 06-20-2013   #36
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It's definitely tragic. I do agree about the trendiness of street photography and the idea that taking pictures of homeless people is primarily a gratuitous and exploitative act.
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Old 06-20-2013   #37
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Old 06-20-2013   #38
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Old 06-20-2013   #39
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By the sound of it, the victim was an amateur (so am I but I'm 'into' photography). She lifts her iPhone like she probably did many times photographing herself and her friends with a glass of red. Nothing sticks out more than a camera phone/digital compact held out at arms length.

You can 'hide' behind a viewfinder, you can't hide behind a P&S.
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Old 06-20-2013   #40
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Quote:
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How did you quantify the present vs. the past? I don't see tons of street photographers in NYC. If it was truly trendy, I think I would see more.


Read any forum -starting with this one-, google for street photography, street photography courses...
Small, RF kinda cameras are now selling more and more. Look at Fujifilm section of any forum...

Street pictures are everywhere. Homeless ad poverty are a favorite subject, for a multitude of reasons of course.

To me it really look obvious that there is a trend in street photography. Possibly, I am totally idiot and just dreamed about it.



Quote:
Hmmm, this is what many successful people do too.



What I am referring to, is the activity of shooting randomly many photographs, without even looking at the OV or display. Just collecting hundreds of them just to see what comes out.

In the past there were a tiny fraction of people using cameras at all and especially for anything else than family pictures.
Digital and phone cameras have made this activity accessible, very cheap and very popular.
Just look at the millions of pictures loaded to fb, instagram, etc on a daily basis.



Not everybody likes having somebody popping up with a wide lens two inches from his nose and start taking pictures. More so if the interest of the photograph arises from a distressful situation.
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