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Thatcher's Funeral - a new zine from Fistful of Books
Old 06-01-2013   #1
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Thatcher's Funeral - a new zine from Fistful of Books

Hi,

I have just published a new zine.

On April 8th 2013, former Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Margaret Thatcher died at the age of 87.
I travelled to London to photograph the spectacle of her ceremonial funeral which took place on April 17th.

This is is the result of that day...



To see sample spreads and/or to purchase a copy please click here.

Cheers
Simon
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Old 06-01-2013   #2
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I hope you captured some of the protests. I wasn't there on the day, but I did get to the early part of the Trafalgar Square party.
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Old 06-01-2013   #3
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I hope you captured some of the protests. I wasn't there on the day, but I did get to the early part of the Trafalgar Square party.
Protesting a funeral is beneath contempt. Have you no respect?

What kind of low class ignorant people are we raising today? You protest during their time in office, vote for the other guy sure, but to dance on their grave shows serious charachter flaws...

Nice work from what I saw...
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Old 06-01-2013   #4
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As an American you may not understand what Thatcher did to Britain. Her funeral became a big political points scoring exercise for the Tories. I didn't protest it, but I can understand why people did, and the comment about 'did you cover the protests?' was a valid one, I think.

Anyway, looks like a great zine - the pictures of the guys in bowler hats especially.
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Old 06-01-2013   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Patterson View Post
Protesting a funeral is beneath contempt. Have you no respect?

What kind of low class ignorant people are we raising today? You protest during their time in office, vote for the other guy sure, but to dance on their grave shows serious charachter flaws...

Nice work from what I saw...
She was a divisive figure loved by some and hated by others ... the quasi state funeral was seen by many as a provocation, and with respect I don't think you are in a position to comment without living in the UK in the 1980s
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Old 06-01-2013   #6
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Al, I accept you may not understand the complete context, and how politicised the funeral was made by supporters, politicians and those who had suffered under Thatcher alike.

What I can see is a very good set of photos. I was just asking the question.
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Old 06-01-2013   #7
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The protests are unquestionably an important part of the cultural story.

Elvis Costello, 1989:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BZIWSI5UQ

Thatcher was almost unbelievably divisive, and she unambiguously took pride in that. The obvious contrast: Churchill, a Tory who united the nation.
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Old 06-01-2013   #8
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I have to agree with Al and found the "protests" the epitome of bad taste.

I can`t help thinking however that she would have been pleased.

Oh yes , nice set of shots.
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Old 06-01-2013   #9
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In context: I was at Orgreave.
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Old 06-01-2013   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Patterson View Post
You protest during their time in office, vote for the other guy sure, but to dance on their grave shows serious charachter flaws...
I don't live in the UK and didn't see the protests but did they dance on her grave (i.e. did they express joy about her death and celebrate) or did they protest what she did and expressed what they think of her legacy? Probably the latter as I'm sure the sufferers of her legacy have no reason for celebration.
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Old 06-01-2013   #11
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I don't live in the UK and didn't see the protests but did they dance on her grave (i.e. did they express joy about her death and celebrate) or did they protest what she did and expressed what they think of her legacy? Probably the latter as I'm sure the sufferers of her legacy have no reason for celebration.
I do live in the UK (for the moment) and when she died there was certainly a lot of expressing joy over her death. I think a lot of people just did it to 'fit in' though, and if they thought about it, would realise that very few people deserve to have their death celebrated. They'd likely admit that an elected leader whose policies you didn't agree with probably does not fit the criteria.
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Old 06-01-2013   #12
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i'll be interested to see how long this thread lasts once it catches the eye of a mod.
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Old 06-01-2013   #13
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... but did they dance on her grave (i.e. did they express joy about her death and celebrate) .
Yes they did .
That was the point of the "protests".
The legacy and the problems that legacy has left was rarely mentioned.

A sad and undignified spectacle and one that did nothing to further their communities cause.
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Old 06-01-2013   #14
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It should read "what she did FOR the UK". IMO
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Old 06-01-2013   #15
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I hadn't meant to provoke a political discussion. I doubt that anyone is going to have their view of Thatcher changed now. There were good reasons why people in all parts of the discussion behaved as they did, and that's done with now. Using the funeral of an old woman who suffered from dementia to prop up a struggling and unpopular government at the expense of the poor and powerless was as sick as chanting at a funeral. Finished. But there is a wide panorama of this event.
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Old 06-01-2013   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Patterson View Post
Protesting a funeral is beneath contempt. Have you no respect?

What kind of low class ignorant people are we raising today? You protest during their time in office, vote for the other guy sure, but to dance on their grave shows serious charachter flaws...
As an Englishman I do not comment on the whorehouse which is your system of government, kindly keep the same distance from UK. You evidently have no understanding of what Thatcher did to Britain and the results of those actions today.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, the photographic work was well done Simon, sorry for the political derailment.
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Old 06-01-2013   #17
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Yes , apologies Simon.
I`d have been happy with just one of those shots whatever the occasion.
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Old 06-01-2013   #18
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This discussion shows it was a significant national occasion, at the very least. Good to have some skilled documentary photography of the occasion.
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Old 06-01-2013   #19
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Al, I accept you may not understand the complete context, and how politicised the funeral was made by supporters, politicians and those who had suffered under Thatcher alike.

What I can see is a very good set of photos. I was just asking the question.
Sorry, I just find protesting funerals in bad taste. Wouldn't want to see pictures of that. Politicizing them, not so much bad taste, but not a class act either, IMNSHO. The pictures were great though.

I have been suffering under Obama, but were he to die before me (unlikely, but possible) you won't see me protest his funeral. Or any of the other former ex presidents.
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Old 06-01-2013   #20
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It should read "what she did FOR the UK". IMO
Exactly. She was a class act, and deserved better treatment.
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Old 06-01-2013   #21
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As an Englishman I do not comment on the whorehouse which is your system of government, kindly keep the same distance from UK. You evidently have no understanding of what Thatcher did to Britain and the results of those actions today.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, the photographic work was well done Simon, sorry for the political derailment.
Yep. Name calling the US by calling it a whorehouse. Such class. Are all of you over there as classy as you?
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Old 06-01-2013   #22
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Yep. Name calling the US by calling it a whorehouse. Such class. Are all of you over there as classy as you?
Unfortunately you appear to have not read the comment I made before you sent your reply. At no point have I insulted your nation. I will accept your apology however.
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Old 06-01-2013   #23
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When did "protest the funeral" or "protest a funeral" become acceptable usage?

It's bad enough that "appeal the sentence/judgment/decision" has become commonplace.

I blame Thatcher
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Old 06-01-2013   #24
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A photozine!
What a lovely idea, Simon.

I'm so tired about all those internet galleries...
Thanks, order made.
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Old 06-01-2013   #25
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I do live in the UK (for the moment) and when she died there was certainly a lot of expressing joy over her death.
In that case I agree that it's a bit distasteful but I also thought the same when people celebrated Bin Laden's death. Even if one thinks it's good that someone died there's still something perverted about actually enjoying somebody's death.

As I said, I'm not from the UK and I wasn't even born when she came to power. I do have an opinion on her and it's rather unfavourable but I have no emotions invested in it whatsoever.
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Old 06-01-2013   #26
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I was there all day and didn't see any protests, but then I pretty much stuck to the funeral route. Outside St Paul's there were some people with protest banners but it was all rather low key.

Thanks for the order Hendrik!

Cheers
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Old 06-01-2013   #27
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Bloody good shots Simon.
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Old 06-01-2013   #28
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Bloody good shots Simon.
Cheers Michael!
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Old 06-01-2013   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Patterson View Post
Protesting a funeral is beneath contempt. Have you no respect?

What kind of low class ignorant people are we raising today? You protest during their time in office, vote for the other guy sure, but to dance on their grave shows serious charachter flaws...

Nice work from what I saw...
For Thatcher? No, I have no respect whatsoever, and contempt would not come close to describing my feelings towards her.

I didn't travel to London with a banner or anything like that, but I celebrated with my family by going out for a meal at the news that there was now a little less evil in the world.

Sadly those who have come since her have mostly continued her work, and the current lot are taking her creeds to their conclusion with some of the atrocities that are being committed.

All of that said, The photographs look great, as others have said the bowler hatted gents photograph is one that really grabs the viewer, and it's good to see people using this model of publishing to put their work out there for people.

I admit I won't be ordering this one because the subject matter makes it impossible for me to view objectively, but I will be keeping an eye on the site for future releases!
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Old 06-01-2013   #30
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I find the comments very interesting.
I remember the Thatcher years very well, living and working as a dentist in Edinburgh then.
People forget that when she came to power, there had been a Labour Government in power; the country was beset by strikes; there was rubbish lying in the streets and you could not find a grave digger who was working for love nor money; the dead had to lie unburied untill the unions agreed they could be buried. The United kingdom was in a mess; it was indeed the "sick man of Europe". The UK car industry was fast becoming a joke with labour withheld constantly.
Something had to change, and the country voted for a change and Mrs. Thatcher was elected. Of course, some people regretted that decision, but that's democracy and it's one of the prices you pay for living in a democratic country.

I, personally, was not a Thatcher fan, but you have to set these things in context and remember the circumstances at the time. She undoubtedly did a great measure of good but also a great measure of "not so good" in her later terms as Prime minister, but she did strengthen the links between the UK and the USA through her relationship with President Reagan.
As usual I suggest, history will deliver its verdict upon Margaret Thatcher, but it is always good to have discussion and debate.
Perhaps Mrs. Thatcher would have been wise to consider that the world is not exclusively viewed as black or white; it is perfectly possible to see in shades of grey as well.

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Old 06-01-2013   #31
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Quote:
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I admit I won't be ordering this one because the subject matter makes it impossible for me to view objectively, but I will be keeping an eye on the site for future releases!
If you are interested in being notified of new releases, you can sign up for the mailing list on the home page.

Cheers
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Old 06-01-2013   #32
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Originally Posted by Sejanus.Aelianus View Post
I regret that you really have no idea what you are talking about, a not uncommon failing on the internet, as elsewhere.

I voted for Thatcher in 1979, as just one of the many millions who were suffering from the out of control trade unions at the time. She did exactly what we wanted, which was to challenge the unions' quasi-governmental status and restore the balance in this country.

The problem was that her success went to her head, as it has a tendency to do with some people. Instead of stopping and restoring balance to the country, she conceived a desire to change Britain's character entirely from a social democracy to a capitalist economy. In the process she destroyed the lives of hundreds of communities from Land's End to John O'Groat.

It is hardly surprising that many millions of people expressed pleasure at her demise and were angry at the use of public money to celebrate her life, something not done since the death of Winston Churchill.
I know lack of class when I see it. From where I sit, every PM or President deserves to have public money spent to thank them for their service. That is class.

There are many people on both sides of the pond who think she was moving the country in the right direction. Pun intended...
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Old 06-01-2013   #33
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For Thatcher? No, I have no respect whatsoever, and contempt would not come close to describing my feelings towards her.

I didn't travel to London with a banner or anything like that, but I celebrated with my family by going out for a meal at the news that there was now a little less evil in the world.

Sadly those who have come since her have mostly continued her work, and the current lot are taking her creeds to their conclusion with some of the atrocities that are being committed.

All of that said, The photographs look great, as others have said the bowler hatted gents photograph is one that really grabs the viewer, and it's good to see people using this model of publishing to put their work out there for people.

I admit I won't be ordering this one because the subject matter makes it impossible for me to view objectively, but I will be keeping an eye on the site for future releases!
Calling her evil shows lack of class. I don't like Obama, but I have enough class not to call him evil.

If you cannot find respect for the resident of the office, then you don't respect the office.
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Old 06-01-2013   #34
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I find the comments very interesting.
I remember the Thatcher years very well, living and working as a dentist in Edinburgh then.
People forget that when she came to power, there had been a Labour Government in power; the country was beset by strikes; there was rubbish lying in the streets and you could not find a grave digger who was working for love nor money; the dead had to lie unburied untill the unions agreed they could be buried. The United kingdom was in a mess; it was indeed the "sick man of Europe". The UK car industry was fast becoming a joke with labour withheld constantly.
Something had to change, and the country voted for a change and Mrs. Thatcher was elected. Of course, some people regretted that decision, but that's democracy and it's one of the prices you pay for living in a democratic country.

I, personally, was not a Thatcher fan, but you have to set these things in context and remember the circumstances at the time. She undoubtedly did a great measure of good but also a great measure of "not so good" in her later terms as Prime minister, but she did strengthen the links between the UK and the USA through her relationship with President Reagan.
As usual I suggest, history will deliver its verdict upon Margaret Thatcher, but it is always good to have discussion and debate.
Perhaps Mrs. Thatcher would have been wise to consider that the world is not exclusively viewed as black or white; it is perfectly possible to see in shades of grey as well.

Regards
Gareth
Thank you for a thoughtful classy post...
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Old 06-01-2013   #35
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Looks like very fine work. I'll be ordering one.
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Old 06-01-2013   #36
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If you cannot find respect for the resident of the office, then you don't respect the office.
Abject nonsense.

Take, for example, Richard M. Nixon.

Hunter S. Thompson's obituary was written with utmost respect for our nation and our system of governance at its best, and absolute contempt for Nixon the man and the way in which he tarnished the seat to which the people had twice elected him. It is not always true that in a democracy the people get the leaders they deserve. Sometimes they get far worse.
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Old 06-01-2013   #37
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Thatcher was unpopular with some, certainly, but she was re-elected, with a large majority, so obviously, not everyone thought this.
I can imagine celebrating the death of a genocidal tyrant, but Thatcher was an *elected* (and not some hanging chad situation, a fair, substantial win, on more that one occasion).
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Old 06-01-2013   #38
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Thatcher was unpopular with some, certainly, but she was re-elected, with a large majority, so obviously, not everyone thought this.
That's factually incorrect.

44% of the popular vote in 1979. 42% in 1983. Pluralities are not majorities, large or otherwise.

"During her premiership Thatcher had the second-lowest average approval rating, at 40 percent, of any post-war Prime Minister. Polls consistently showed that she was less popular than her party. A self-described conviction politician, Thatcher always insisted that she did not care about her poll ratings, pointing instead to her unbeaten election record." [Wikipedia]
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Old 06-01-2013   #39
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Thatcher was unpopular with some, certainly, but she was re-elected, with a large majority, so obviously, not everyone thought this.
I can imagine celebrating the death of a genocidal tyrant, but Thatcher was an *elected* (and not some hanging chad situation, a fair, substantial win, on more that one occasion).
Not quite.

In 1979..

Registered voters =41093264
Voter Turnout = 30180452
Conservative & Unionist votes = 13697690 (ie. Thatcher)

Hence only one third of eligible voters supported Thatcher, and over 56% of those who actually voted did so against Thatcher.

Her first election was actually her best result in terms of votes, the second was worse but nevertheless saw the majority of House of Commons seats increase from 71 to 188 in some large part due to having changed the boundaries used to delineate critical seats throughout UK. This did not improve her personal popularity and unfortunately reinforced her growing messiah-complex. Remember that her own party disposed of her leadership, brutally, after repeated attempts.
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Old 06-01-2013   #40
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That's factually incorrect.

44% of the popular vote in 1979. 42% in 1983. Pluralities are not majorities, large or otherwise.

"During her premiership Thatcher had the second-lowest average approval rating, at 40 percent, of any post-war Prime Minister. Polls consistently showed that she was less popular than her party. A self-described conviction politician, Thatcher always insisted that she did not care about her poll ratings, pointing instead to her unbeaten election record." [Wikipedia]
The first-past-the-post system is the system we had and still have in the UK. The configuration of constituencies in the UK will always affect the results, but if the people didn't like that system, they should have voted for proportional representation when they had the chance very recently, but they voted against. (Yes, I know they voted against simply because it was Nick Cleggs idea, maybe that just shows the UK populace can't be trusted with a vote...;-) )

A government in office will *never* get good poll ratings in the UK, the UK population just hates whoever is in office, as it's the politicians who are to blame for every failing of their lives.

As an ex-UK resident, I often chatted politics with people, to be honest, I started to think that having vote should involve passing an exam...
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