M 240 Recall
Old 04-24-2013   #1
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M 240 Recall

FYI
https://www.facebook.com/notes/leica...51573597862888
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Old 04-24-2013   #2
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Same stuff for people who prefer Leica's site:
http://en.leica-camera.com/news/news/1/10056.html
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Old 04-24-2013   #3
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who needs quality control for an only 8k camera?
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Old 04-24-2013   #4
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at least they're admitting the problem right up front instead of the typical japanese mentality of "who me?" like recent examples such as ... i'm sure there are plenty that i've missed
D800 left/right wb af issues
D600 oil splatter
X100 loose exposure compensation dial
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Old 04-24-2013   #5
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Extremely professional handling of a production problem in my eyes. That's remarkable because the Industry standard is to deny a production problem as long as possible.
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Old 04-24-2013   #6
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They have to. Imagine the lawsuits from all the people whose 8k camera dropped.
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Old 04-24-2013   #7
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at least they're admitting the problem right up front instead of the typical japanese mentality of "who me?"
No they didn't do that at all, that is the point. They first stated it was only one camera that suffered from this and the owner was blamed by them for bad handling: re the LUF site
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Old 04-24-2013   #8
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These things happen, and it's not like it's a serious issue which stops the camera from working.
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Old 04-24-2013   #9
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who needs quality control for an only 8k camera?
Same can be said for automobiles costing three times the price of the Leica:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...da-recall.html

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Old 04-24-2013   #10
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who needs quality control for an only 8k camera?
Quality control can be the best in the world and there will STILL be problems that arise in production, Joe. Especially on first off the line manufacture of a new product.

Manufacturers like Leica try their best to prevent such issues from reaching the customers, but it is inevitable that some will. Leica has operated proactively in making a public announcement of the problem, the fact that it is now solved, along with information on how to handle whether your camera is included in the re-work and how to get it taken care of.

What more could they do? They should be lauded, not castigated.

G
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Old 04-24-2013   #11
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I should never have joked about it...leica lovers are fast losing their sense of humour...
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Old 04-24-2013   #12
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I should never have joked about it...leica lovers are fast losing their sense of humour...
I don't know Joe.. I think most people have a sense of humour when they know something is humourous.

Sometimes one's sense of humour doesn't translate well online.

That's why, when I'm joking about something I put a bunch of - so that people can see I'm chuckling/laughing/smiling.

I think, perhaps, when people read your post they may just see a statement without any suggestion of humour.

Just my take on it.

Cheers,
Dave
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Old 04-24-2013   #13
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I should never have joked about it...leica lovers are fast losing their sense of humour...
that was a joke?

looked just like a typical Leica thread troll statement to me, Joe. of course, I should refrain from feeding trolls anyway. ;-)

(the fuji X10 that i bought arrived in pristine factory packaging with a big, fat, greasy thumb print on the front element of the lens. i wouldn't expect that with a new $20 camera... of course, i cleaned it off in a jif with a microfiber cloth. S--t happens.)

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Old 04-24-2013   #14
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Jokes and such aside, would anyone be surprised or, perhaps, angered if Leica did NOT issue a recall to at least check these things out on the cameras they produced?

I can point to issues where Nikon never issued a recall nor even admitted a problem with their D700 cameras when it was used in conjunction with the SB-900 flash. However, if you search via google you'd be hard pressed not to find a common issue with the camera's hot shoe. Yet no recall, no word.

I can also point to issues where Apple did not issue a recall for problems that began occurring with the iPhone 4s shortly after the issued iOS 6 upgrade. The upgrade fried the wi-fi adapter/software and wi-fi was not available to a significant number of iPhone 4s users. As a result, when you did take your iPhone 4s into the Apple Store and they found out what you were complaining about, they admitted it (to me at least) that the iOS upgrade had fried the adapter/software and they provided a brand new phone as a result.

So.. which is better for consumers?

Not issuing a recall and just "dealing with it if it happens" or issuing a recall "just to be sure"?


As a consumer which would YOU prefer to have to deal with given those two options?
(and, like Godfrey said above... it's mainly because like it or not... sh-t happens)

Cheers,
Dave
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Old 04-24-2013   #15
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No they didn't do that at all, that is the point. They first stated it was only one camera that suffered from this and the owner was blamed by them for bad handling: re the LUF site
ok maybe i gave leica too much credit there ... but their response has been faster than the japanese at least
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Old 04-24-2013   #16
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hmmm, I wonder how much stuff you have to remove to get at the studs. This is going to eat into their profits and chew up production time.
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Old 04-24-2013   #17
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Extremely professional handling of a production problem in my eyes. That's remarkable because the Industry standard is to deny a production problem as long as possible.
Meh.

They've been doing a very lousy job with the M8 and M9 (extremely poor electronics. Errors all over: logistic as well as marketing). The new ME is a lousy marketing job in itself (M9 becoming a ME. The new M10 is now simply an M. What's that? And this is the beginning). The M takes ages to reach the consumers. Who knows how shady it will perform. But that's so unimportant. It's just that their customer base doesn't care. They just doesn't care. Dentists all over the world don't even use their Leicas. They fondle it here and there and that's it.
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Old 04-24-2013   #18
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I should never have joked about it...leica lovers are fast losing their sense of humour...
Leica never gets kicked around in RFF.
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Old 04-24-2013   #19
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Meh.

They've been doing a very lousy job with the M8 and M9 (extremely poor electronics. Errors all over: logistic as well as marketing). It's just that their customer base doesn't care. They just doesn't care. Dentists all over the world don't even use their Leicas. They fondle it here and there and that's it.
Of course you are a heavy professional user who is completely familiar with digi-Ms and has been using them since they came out, and you have access to information about everyone who has ever bought them.

Are they perfect? No. Are they as bad as people like you maintain? No.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-24-2013   #20
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Dentists all over the world don't even use their Leicas. They fondle it here and there and that's it.
Bla Bla Bla
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Old 04-24-2013   #21
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"Dentists all over the world don't even use their Leicas."
This is a joke, right?
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Old 04-24-2013   #22
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Crap. I picked mine up on April 3rd. Looks like I'll be getting an email...

And no, I'm not a dentist. I don't even own a car.
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Old 04-24-2013   #23
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Leica has only 60 years of experience with this M body. It's not rocket science as sensors or other electronical stuff inside. Concerning 'forgotten' recalls Leica did nothing in terms of sensors, broken shutters, SD cards etc. Just wait and see and repair or exchange, that's all.....
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Old 04-24-2013   #24
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No they didn't do that at all, that is the point. They first stated it was only one camera that suffered from this and the owner was blamed by them for bad handling: re the LUF site
What prompted this post? That was an out-of-guaranty M9 and has nothing to do with a recall of the M. And Leica reconsidered too...
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Old 04-24-2013   #25
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I hear this in my head, the tune is Judy Collins' "Send in the Clowns" ...

Ain't Leica rich?
Are we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground,
You in mid-air..
Where are the trolls?

Ain't Leica bliss?
Don't you approve?
One who keeps tearing around,
One who can't move...
Where are the trolls?
Send in the trolls.

Just when I'd stopped opening doors,
Finally knowing the one that I wanted was yours.
Making my entrance again with my usual flair
Sure of my lines...
No one is there.

Don't Leicas love farce?
My fault, I fear.
I thought that you'd want what I want...
Sorry, my dear!
And where are the trolls
Send in the trolls
Don't bother, they're here.

Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer?
Losing my timing this late in my career.
And where are the trolls?
There ought to be trolls...
Well, maybe next year.


G
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Old 04-24-2013   #26
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Leica has only 60 years of experience with this M body. It's not rocket science as sensors or other electronical stuff inside. Concerning 'forgotten' recalls Leica did nothing in terms of sensors, broken shutters, SD cards etc. Just wait and see and repair or exchange, that's all.....
Sorry, which M body?

There's quite a difference between film Ms and the M8/M8.2; another massive difference between the M8/8.2 and the M9; and yet another big difference between the M9 and M240.

Perhaps you know more about rocket science than I, but one distinct resemblance between a digi-M and a rocket (or at least a satellite, which is where my few friends in the field have worked) is that you want to make both as small and light as possible. By that criterion, DSLRs are even further from rocket science.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-24-2013   #27
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Thanks to Clint I now have a new moniker and line for my sig...

Cheers,
Dave
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Old 04-24-2013   #28
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Of course you are a heavy professional user who is completely familiar with digi-Ms and has been using them since they came out, and you have access to information about everyone who has ever bought them.

Are they perfect? No. Are they as bad as people like you maintain? No.

Cheers,

R.

Yes, Roger. Yes.

Your sarcasm really falls flat. What reall makes you think that I'm ignorant on the matter (or less knowledgeable then you?). You're losing pointd And credibility.
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Old 04-24-2013   #29
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Yes, Roger. Yes.

Your sarcasm really falls flat. What reall makes you think that I'm ignorant on the matter (or less knowledgeable then you?). You're losing pointd And credibility.
Why do I think you know less than I? Of course I don't. I'm just guessing. Can you point me to your web site? Or publications? Or real name?

Cheers,

R.
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Old 04-24-2013   #30
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And that kind of service, ladies and gentlemen, is part of why you must pay so much for these cameras. Congratulations Leica.
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Old 04-24-2013   #31
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No they didn't do that at all, that is the point. They first stated it was only one camera that suffered from this and the owner was blamed by them for bad handling: re the LUF site
So you think a company should initiate a recall immediately based on a single incident? That's ludicrous. There would be literally nothing keeping people from abusing that policy. Leica would be out of business by next week.

The point is that Nikon or Canon wouldn't even recognize the problem exists until the affected cameras were out of warranty, and then hide behind that. They've done it a million times before.

Now, I don't think this speaks necessarily to any strength of character on the part of Leica; when your entire market is people who are willing to pay $8k for $1k's worth of camera with an M mount flange stuck on the front, you don't have the option of upsetting your customers. If Leica releases a body that fails again, they're out of the consumer camera business. Considering how tiny the M rangefinder market is, and how thin their profit margins must be given they hand-assemble precision products in Europe in 2013, it's amazing the M8 wasn't the last M.
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Old 04-24-2013   #32
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What Leica needs is some good old fashioned " apples to apples" competition.
Come on Bessa, Epson, Fuji... I don't have a problem with their M prices, but I do wish
That I could comparison shop before I plunk down my 8k.
Regarding this recall, I think they have behaved admirably.
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Old 04-24-2013   #33
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Leica has only 60 years of experience with this M body. It's not rocket science as sensors or other electronical stuff inside. Concerning 'forgotten' recalls Leica did nothing in terms of sensors, broken shutters, SD cards etc. Just wait and see and repair or exchange, that's all.....
If you can do better, design and manufacture a FF digital rangefinder compatible with 60 years worth of lenses that is better. And support it better than Leica does for the next 60 years.

I'll buy one after a suitable time of your camera being in the field to see if you're living up to your high falutin' sentiments.

G
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Old 04-24-2013   #34
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Sounds perfectly responsible and very well handled IMO. And no, I am not a dentist. I need to see one soon, though.
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Old 04-24-2013   #35
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I don't know Joe.. I think most people have a sense of humour when they know something is humourous.

Sometimes one's sense of humour doesn't translate well online.

That's why, when I'm joking about something I put a bunch of - so that people can see I'm chuckling/laughing/smiling.

I think, perhaps, when people read your post they may just see a statement without any suggestion of humour.

Just my take on it.

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Dave
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Old 04-24-2013   #36
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Leica never gets kicked around in RFF.
who is joking now?
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Old 04-24-2013   #37
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Same can be said for automobiles costing three times the price of the Leica:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...da-recall.html

Dave
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Old 04-24-2013   #38
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So you think a company should initiate a recall immediately based on a single incident?
Especially if it is a different model camera more than two years old...
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Old 04-24-2013   #39
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I wonder how many cars leave the factory with loose lug nuts...
Probably quite a few.

Cheers,
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Old 04-24-2013   #40
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I wonder how many cars leave the factory with loose lug nuts...
I had a Volvo 745 that dislocated its rear axle due to improperly assembled rear springs. It made for some interesting swerves....
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