Old 05-10-2019   #121
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,248
Lol, I find all of this hilarious.

I have no worries about the future of Fujifilms or film in general.

Mostly have the opposite sentiment. If Fuji stops there will be someone else to pick up the slack. Film is here to stay just like Muscle Cars and Tube Amplifiers.

I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-10-2019   #122
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 5,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!
Isn't that what forums are for?!
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-10-2019   #123
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,248
Don’t forget photos of cats and coffee! Lol but yes totally agree.
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-10-2019   #124
J enea
Registered User
 
J enea is offline
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 159
I agree that someone will take up the slack. just hope slide film will be around for a while.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #125
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
The more unwelcome surprise this time is that Superia Venus 800 will be discontinued.
Not a surprise at all. The news is almost 1 1/2 years old that Fuji had to stop ISO 800 film production.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #126
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by J enea View Post
I agree that someone will take up the slack. just hope slide film will be around for a while.
Both Kodak Alaris and Fujifilm reported increasing demand last Photokina. For C41 and E6. The number of labs also offering E6 is increasing. Tetenal is working on additional 1L E6 kits because of increasing demand. E6 is here to stay.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #127
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden/Spain
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Lol, I find all of this hilarious.

I have no worries about the future of Fujifilms or film in general.

Mostly have the opposite sentiment. If Fuji stops there will be someone else to pick up the slack. Film is here to stay just like Muscle Cars and Tube Amplifiers.

I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!
Just Kodak. From what I gathered back when Ilford's sSimon Galley was active at APUG and some of Adox's Mirko insights is that the industry is better with the large players in. Also that many color products are very advanced for smaller players to equal at this stage. Kodak, Fuji and some part of what Agfa is are the ones able to make color IIRC.


A follow up of my previous post, if this 30% is just the same increase announced for April but rolled in Japan then it will be fine. Two consecutive increases so closely would be too much.


As of Japan, I'm still quite baffled at the divergence in prices that there has been since 2014. Their prices on most films are quite expensive. However, I haven't really looked into factors like currency.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #128
Argentia1
Registered User
 
Argentia1 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filter Factor View Post
Perhaps, but consider the effort, the optimism and the greatly-expanded presence of film products at Fujifilm's space at the most recent Photokina. For the first time in recent memory, the space devoted to film has been enlarged to the point of occupying the majority of Fujifilm's booth there. A "sea change", if you will. Fujifilm's new marketing efforts, their workshops, their tie-ins to Instagram and other social media, their new minilab machines, their new website https:/www.ishootfujifilm.com and last but not least the artwork, the brochures and the posters all point to more than just a "copy and paste" effort. Several rff members were present at Photokina and we all came away impressed with the newly redoubled focus on film culture at Fujifilm.

Cheers, Robert
I completely agree with you, Robert.
I`ve visited the Photokina and other photo fairs for more than 20 years.
And Fujifilm's presentation was the most positive towards silver-halide products in the last eight years. And the best of all film manufacturers there by far. There is something changing to the positive, slowly, but it is happening.
We need all film manufacturers in the market. We neeed fair prices that cover all costs of production including new R&D and modernising of machinery. We need a certain level of competition and variaty for a healthy market. Therefore we should support by purchases all film manufacturers: Kodak, Fujifilm, Ilford, Adox, Foma. These companies, who really make film.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #129
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
And concerning the price increase. Kodak has published recently that they made almost 20 million bucks loss last year with their film production.
Incorrect.

Please, read the actual document before spreading false information:

The decrease in Consumer and Film revenues of approximately $9 million reflected volume [b]declines in Consumer Inkjet Systems ($9 million) driven by lower sales of ink to the existing installed base of printers, lower brand licensing revenue ($3 million) driven by the modification of a brand licensing agreement in the prior year offset by higher volume in Industrial Film and Chemicals ($2 million) primarily due to timing of customer orders and the favorable impact of currency
($2 million).
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #130
HHPhoto
Registered User
 
HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
Incorrect.
Nope.
I've referred to the detailed 2018 annual report - Segment Operational EBITDA and Consolidated Earnings and (Loss) from Continuing Operations before Income Taxes - and there is the data for the Consumer and Film segment: 19 million $ loss.
http://www.envisionreports.com/KODK/...m?voting=false

Just for the record: I am using Kodak films for decades, and I won't stop that. I don't like this data! And I hope they can improve the situation.

Cheers, Jan
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #131
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Nope.
I've referred to the detailed 2018 annual report - Segment Operational EBITDA and Consolidated Earnings and (Loss) from Continuing Operations before Income Taxes - and there is the data for the Consumer and Film segment: 19 million $ loss.
http://www.envisionreports.com/KODK/...m?voting=false
Nope.

You said Kodak lost 20 million $ producing film. The document clearly states the loss in the consumer and Film group was NOT because of the film production.

Furthermore, Kodak even explicitly reported cost improvements in Motion Picture films (basically same technology as all their pro films) which makes your assumption (that Fuji's need for price increase is also evident in Kodak's film production) completely baseless.

Please note that I'm not saying that Fuji's stated inability to control the cost of traditional film production and therefore a need for minimum 30% price increase is a lie (although it most probably is just that), I'm just saying that other big manufacturer and Fuji's own similar products (Instax) obviously don't feel the same cost pressures. And Kodak WILL raise prices too since it makes no sense to compete with Fuji on prices.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #132
HHPhoto
Registered User
 
HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by brbo View Post
The document clearly states the loss in the consumer and Film group was NOT because of the film production.
Nope.
Just look at the numbers you have quoted. Is it possible to compensate the CFD loss with this little plus? No, of course not. It is just simple aritmetic. Your interpretation is wrong.
And I can ensure you that Kodak has an income problem with their photo films, because they subsidise high volume consumer CN film in some major markets, e.g. here in Germany.

Cheers, Jan
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #133
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,462
So Kodak lost 20 million in film production alone even though the financial report says otherwise and you are citing this same report as proof?!

Sigh.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #134
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 965
@brbo
@Jan
The consumer and film division has reported a loss of 19 million dollars (see page 93). That is right, but you both overlook a point:
For us as photographers it is of main interest whether the photo film production is profitable. And we cannot conclude that from the published data, because it is too much aggregated. The published info is not precise enough.
Therefore you should stop argumenting, it is a waste of time.

And I think much more important now is what will happen with Kodak Alaris: We all know it is for sale, Alaris made that statement to the public in January. They said they expect a deal until the end of March, but no news since then.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #135
RObert Budding
Registered User
 
RObert Budding is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Arlington, Massachusetts
Posts: 1,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Lol, I find all of this hilarious.

I have no worries about the future of Fujifilms or film in general.

Mostly have the opposite sentiment. If Fuji stops there will be someone else to pick up the slack. Film is here to stay just like Muscle Cars and Tube Amplifiers.

I fully support you guys twirling away your time worrying about hypotheticals. Someone has to do it!
So you don't see any differences in emulsions from various manufacturers? Film is just a widget, and any old one will do?
__________________
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
~Robert Wilensky

"He could be right, he could be wrong. I think he's wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to think he thinks he's right."
~ Bob Dylan
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-11-2019   #136
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Not a surprise at all. The news is almost 1 1/2 years old that Fuji had to stop ISO 800 film production.
Wrong. This news was made official all of two days ago.

Fujifilm discontinues yet another film. They have not gone a single year without discontinuing film(s) in 6 straight years.

http://ffis.fujifilm.co.jp/informati...lein_0090.html
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #137
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Wrong.
No.
Superia Venus 800 is Superia X-Tra 800. I've tested both side by side. With the discontuniation notice of X-Tra 800 it was clear that the Venus packaging of this film will follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Fujifilm discontinues yet another film.
No. They end a "Japan only" packaging. Venus was never officially offered in Europe e.g.. When X-Tra 800 was discontinued, some distributors started to import it from Japan by themselves.
And:
At Photokina Fujifilm published their future worldwide film line: Neither X-Tra 800 nor Venus 800 were on it. So everyone knows since then that Venus 800 will be gone when the current stock is sold.
So this is all very old news.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #138
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 5,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
No. They end a "Japan only" packaging. Venus was never officially offered in Europe e.g.. <snip>
So this is all very old news.

I beg to differ. It may well be "very old news" to some, but in the Japanese domestic market, the news is just a few days old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
At Photokina Fujifilm published their future worldwide film line: Neither X-Tra 800 nor Venus 800 were on it.
What films were on it?
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #139
Out to Lunch
Registered User
 
Out to Lunch's Avatar
 
Out to Lunch is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 5,428
Quote:
What films were on it?
Exactly, and where will it be available...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #140
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
At Photokina Fujifilm published their future worldwide film line...
I don't remember any announcements to that effect from Photokina. Please share what they announced.
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #141
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
What films were on it?
The following:
- Fujicolor C200 135-36
- Superia X-Tra 400 135-36
- Pro 400H 135-36 and 120
- Velvia 50 135-36 and 120
- Velvia 100 135-36, 120, 4x5", 8x10"
- Provia 100F 135-36, 120, 4x5", 8x10".

That is probably the "core" programme which is available worldwide.
But there are additional regional offerings in certain markets. For example North America: Just in summer last year complete new 3-packs of C200 and X-Tra 400 135-36 have been introduced. Printing on it in English only afaik, so not intented for global distribution, but regional distribution.
Then there are still Japanese offerings: Fujicolor Industrial 100, Pro 160NS 120, Velvia 50 in 4x5".
Pro 160 NS by the way has always been available also here in Europe without interruption for years. And it still is. Always fresh stock. Officially offered by Fujifilm Europe.

These regional differences are probably due to significant regional demand differences. Certain markets work quite different. I know from several distributors that the demand for ISO 400 film is much higher in the US than in Europe. In Europe ISO 100 and 160/200 films have higher market share.
SUCs have always been more popular in the US compared to other markets, for example.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #142
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
The following:
- Fujicolor C200 135-36
- Superia X-Tra 400 135-36
- Pro 400H 135-36 and 120
- Velvia 50 135-36 and 120
- Velvia 100 135-36, 120, 4x5", 8x10"
- Provia 100F 135-36, 120, 4x5", 8x10".
These are the films currently available in the US. So Fuji has pledged no more discontinuations?
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #143
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
These are the films currently available in the US. So Fuji has pledged no more discontinuations?

Correct. No more discontinuations.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #144
sepiareverb
genius and moron
 
sepiareverb's Avatar
 
sepiareverb is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St Johnsbury VT
Posts: 8,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Correct. No more discontinuations.
This afternoon.
__________________
-Bob
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #145
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
These are the films currently available in the US. So Fuji has pledged no more discontinuations?
Fujifilm will never make such a pledge.

My guess: Velvia 100 is the next film to be axed.

Incredible, Fujifilm makes all of ONE negative film for 120 size. That is beyond pathetic.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #146
Skiff
Registered User
 
Skiff is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Incredible, Fujifilm makes all of ONE negative film for 120 size. That is beyond pathetic.
Not correct. There is one on the global list. But two available fresh. Pro 160 NS is currently offered in the markets where demand for this film is.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #147
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Not correct. There is one on the global list. But two available fresh. Pro 160 NS is currently offered in the markets where demand for this film is.
Last time I was in Japan, 160 NS was nowhere to be found.

I guess there is no demand there.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #148
HHPhoto
Registered User
 
HHPhoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Incredible, Fujifilm makes all of ONE negative film for 120 size. That is beyond pathetic.
Let's have a look at the 120 format color films from Kodak and Fuji:
Kodak:
- Ektar
- Portra 160
- Portra 400
- Portra 800
= 4 films in total.

Fuji:
- Pro 160NS
- Pro 400H
- Velvia 50
- Velvia 100
- Provia 100F
= 5 films in total.

Fuji has won.......

Cheers, Jan
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #149
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 5,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Last time I was in Japan, 160 NS was nowhere to be found.

I guess there is no demand there.
According to their website, Pro 160 NS is currently in stock at every Yodobashi Camera store.

https://www.yodobashi.com/product/100000001001219376/

The thing that puzzles me is that it's available in 120 but not 135...
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-12-2019   #150
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Let's have a look at the 120 format color films from Kodak and Fuji:
Kodak:
- Ektar
- Portra 160
- Portra 400
- Portra 800
= 4 films in total.

Fuji:
- Pro 160NS
- Pro 400H
- Velvia 50
- Velvia 100
- Provia 100F
= 5 films in total.

Fuji has won.......

Cheers, Jan
Color aesthetics aside, Kodak has a better color negative selection now that Fujfiilm has dumped their great emulsions into the crapper.

However, I never shoot Kodak film in 120 size so it's irrelevant to me.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #151
Mooshoepork
Registered User
 
Mooshoepork is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Last time I was in Japan, 160 NS was nowhere to be found.

I guess there is no demand there.
I was there last month and found it in literally every camera store that sells film.

Maybe some glasses are in order 😂
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #152
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooshoepork View Post
I was there last month and found it in literally every camera store that sells film.

Maybe some glasses are in order 😂

My eyes are fine thank you. I know what I am talking about and you have not the slightest clue about my experience. You are making a fool out of yourself with your unnecessary personal attacks.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #153
Ste_S
Registered User
 
Ste_S is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 210
Interested in what markets 120 Fuji Pro 160 is available in. Not available here in the UK, AG Photographic have it listed as discontinued by Fujifilm.

https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/fu...pack-963-p.asp

Luckily I'm quite happy now with Ektar, Portra, HP5 & FP4 in 120. Fuji's ups and downs don't bother me too much.

Edit - Pro 160 seems available in Japan, at least in Yodobashi
https://www.yodobashi.com/product/100000001001219376/
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #154
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 819
One country isn't going to sustain 160 NS. Expect it to be discontinued soon.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #155
Ste_S
Registered User
 
Ste_S is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 210
Interestingly Yodabashi rank their films by best selling, for 120 (Brownie film in japanese !) its
https://www.yodobashi.com/category/1...53216/ranking/

1. Fuji Velvia 100
2. Fuji Pro 400h
3. Fuji Provia 100
4. Fuji Velvia 50
5. Ilford Delta 100
6. Fuji Pro 160
7. Ilford XP2
8. Ilford HP5
9. Cinestill 800t
10. Kodak Tri-X

I guess the Japanese really miss Acros judging by the position of Delta 100, and Kodak don't seem to do so well in Japan
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #156
Ted Striker
Registered User
 
Ted Striker's Avatar
 
Ted Striker is offline
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste_S View Post
Interestingly Yodabashi rank their films by best selling, for 120 (Brownie film in japanese !) its
https://www.yodobashi.com/category/1...53216/ranking/

1. Fuji Velvia 100
2. Fuji Pro 400h
3. Fuji Provia 100
4. Fuji Velvia 50
5. Ilford Delta 100
6. Fuji Pro 160
7. Ilford XP2
8. Ilford HP5
9. Cinestill 800t
10. Kodak Tri-X

I guess the Japanese really miss Acros judging by the position of Delta 100, and Kodak don't seem to do so well in Japan

Kodak has very poor distribution in Japan and is also priced excessively high. I find that Ilford film is much easier to find and is priced in a sane manner.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #157
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,682
I don't know why people are complaining about prices. Fujicolor 200 and 400 XTRA are $2.99/roll at B&H. They are practically giving it away. Plenty of room for price increases to keep Fuji film viable. Fuji transparency film on the other hand...
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #158
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste_S View Post
Interestingly Yodabashi rank their films by best selling, for 120 (Brownie film in japanese !) its
https://www.yodobashi.com/category/1...53216/ranking/

1. Fuji Velvia 100
2. Fuji Pro 400h
3. Fuji Provia 100
4. Fuji Velvia 50
5. Ilford Delta 100
6. Fuji Pro 160
7. Ilford XP2
8. Ilford HP5
9. Cinestill 800t
10. Kodak Tri-X

I guess the Japanese really miss Acros judging by the position of Delta 100, and Kodak don't seem to do so well in Japan
Interesting. If I had to guess the order I'd have placed Velvia 100 dead last.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #159
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,248
If someone had a stash of Neopan/Presto 1600 right now would be a good time to dump it. Looking at sold prices 14.50-20.00+ USD$$ a roll.

I got two in floating around and I am going to flip them for some Portra. Freestyle has rebates rocking right now on new Kodak films.

I prefer Kodak over Fuji these days. Pro160 was my jam for many years. Now I shoot Portra 160 and much prefer the skin tones. Have yet to try the new E100G or Ektar.
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-13-2019   #160
dourbalistar
Registered User
 
dourbalistar's Avatar
 
dourbalistar is offline
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
However, I never shoot Kodak film in 120 size so it's irrelevant to me.
Ted, since Kodak 120 is irrelevant to you, I'm curious what film you do shoot. Do Fujifilm's discontinuations stand to impact your film shooting? Honestly trying to understand the goal of your posts...
__________________
I like my lenses sharp as a tank and built like a tack.

flickr
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 17:36.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.