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There are no Professional Photographers!
Old 05-22-2013   #1
marcr1230
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There are no Professional Photographers!

More nonsense from Yahoo

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell...photographers/
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Old 05-22-2013   #2
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I think she has since rescinded (or "clarified") her statement.
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Old 05-22-2013   #3
FA Limited
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people have to chillax, everyone says stupid things once in a while, even CEOs of large corporations

taking it literally, yeah then it's like trolling but i think her message is pretty straight forwards in that they're not distinguishing between pros and non-pros anymore. with photography being more and more open and accessible to everyone i can see where they are going with this.
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Old 05-22-2013   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FA Limited View Post
people have to chillax, everyone says stupid things once in a while, even CEOs of large corporations

taking it literally, yeah then it's like trolling but i think her message is pretty straight forwards in that they're not distinguishing between pros and non-pros anymore. with photography being more and more open and accessible to everyone i can see where they are going with this.
'Even'? Surely 'especially'.

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R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FA Limited View Post
people have to chillax, everyone says stupid things once in a while, even CEOs of large corporations

taking it literally, yeah then it's like trolling but i think her message is pretty straight forwards in that they're not distinguishing between pros and non-pros anymore. with photography being more and more open and accessible to everyone i can see where they are going with this.
I would not be too sure of that, I think she knew exactly what she was saying because this is what big corporations like this think of the value of photography.
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Old 05-22-2013   #6
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She democratized photography in one sentence.
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Old 05-22-2013   #7
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Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
I would not be too sure of that, I think she knew exactly what she was saying because this is what big corporations like this think of the value of photography.
...unless THEY are the ones selling it (whether they own it or not).

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #8
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Originally Posted by Exdsc View Post
She democratized photography in one sentence.
'Democratized'? Or 'announced her intention to steal'? If not now, then in the long term... See my previous post.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FA Limited View Post
people have to chillax, everyone says stupid things once in a while, even CEOs of large corporations

taking it literally, yeah then it's like trolling but i think her message is pretty straight forwards in that they're not distinguishing between pros and non-pros anymore. with photography being more and more open and accessible to everyone i can see where they are going with this.
With a sane attitude like that, what are we supposed to do with all our anger?
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Old 05-22-2013   #10
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'Democratized'? Or 'announced her intention to steal'? If not now, then in the long term... See my previous post.

Cheers,

R.
She give everyone 1TB of free storage, 1 TB hard drive costs ~$70.

She wants to increase traffic and sell advertisement.

Stealing photos?

That is like stealing air... crazy.
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Old 05-22-2013   #11
FA Limited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
I would not be too sure of that, I think she knew exactly what she was saying because this is what big corporations like this think of the value of photography.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
'Democratized'? Or 'announced her intention to steal'? If not now, then in the long term... See my previous post.
it's not stealing when you agree to it and there are other options ... even so, most people would be ever so happy if their content was published for no credit. think about all those threads where people complain about their photos stolen and the typical reply is you should be grateful people even like your work.

photography has less value when everyone is able to take properly focused and well exposed photographs. in the past the barrier to photography was the equipment and learning how to use it. with smartphones that does not exist so much anymore.
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Old 05-22-2013   #12
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Originally Posted by FA Limited View Post
it's not stealing when you agree to it and there are other options ... even so, most people would be ever so happy if their content was published for no credit. think about all those threads where people complain about their photos stolen and the typical reply is you should be grateful people even like your work.

photography has less value when everyone is able to take properly focused and well exposed photographs. in the past the barrier to photography was the equipment and learning how to use it. with smartphones that does not exist so much anymore.
True. Bigger fools they. They'd also be happy, presumably, if someone commandeered their lawn to grow vegetables because they weren't taking care of it.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #13
FA Limited
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Quote:
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With a sane attitude like that, what are we supposed to do with all our anger?
well we can still be pissed off at the new layout
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Old 05-22-2013   #14
Roger Hicks
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Originally Posted by Exdsc View Post
She give everyone 1TB of free storage, 1 TB hard drive costs ~$70.

She wants to increase traffic and sell advertisement.

Stealing photos?

That is like stealing air... crazy.
No. There is a difference between a common good and private property arising from individual talent and effort. Attempting to disguise that difference is the favourite trick of the expropriators. The next step is to attempt to 'privatize' (and sell) the common good.

EDIT: In the latest Private Eye magazine, there's a cartoon (page 33) of Hitler looking at a letter addressed to "Occupier".

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #15
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Ah... the age of the "free" internet...
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Old 05-22-2013   #16
FA Limited
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it's an exciting and scary time to be a professional photographer. you really have to prove yourself among all the heavy duty amateurs that do things for fun and for free. at the same time technology has enabled a new ways of expression and sharing that we would never had thought of even ten years ago.
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Old 05-22-2013   #17
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One thing has not changed.

Before the internet professional photographers could not sell images on the internet. Seems this is to again be true.
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Old 05-22-2013   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdsc View Post
She give everyone 1TB of free storage, 1 TB hard drive costs ~$70.

She wants to increase traffic and sell advertisement.

Stealing photos?

That is like stealing air... crazy.
They license photos. In fact, the Flickr terms are very explicit and respectful and descriptive as to how they are used.

If you don't pay, why complain? Go somewhere else or set up your own service for your photos.
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Old 05-22-2013   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
No. There is a difference between a common good and private property arising from individual talent and effort. Attempting to disguise that difference is the favourite trick of the expropriators. The next step is to attempt to 'privatize' (and sell) the common good.

Cheers,

R.
Those photographers who come from a film background value photographs in a commodity sense. Those who got into photography during digital era value photographs as much as they value emails or text messages.
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Old 05-22-2013   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FA Limited View Post
it's not stealing when you agree to it and there are other options ... even so, most people would be ever so happy if their content was published for no credit.
It's deceptive all the same, it's labeled "Sharing" when it really is providing content for them to monetize with no interest to compensate you in any way, which brings me to the other point.

Yes, it is true, people who find they need to feel like they are good at taking photos will seek out praise anywhere they can get it. And the sad thing is that what they think getting published means is gone, in the past. It used to be hard to get published and people got paid for it so it was looked up to...it was something to aspire to.

So idiot amateurs act like that it is still something to aspire to when it is simply not. All getting published without monetary compensation today means is that you got taken advantage of, your image was used for free and that promise of a photo credit being good exposure is worthless, all you are being exposed to is more Freetography™.

Amateurs who give their photos away for free are living a lie, they think it has to be worth something...anything and it is not, it is totally worthless.
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Old 05-22-2013   #21
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Those photographers who come from a film background value photographs in a commodity sense. Those who got into photography during digital era value photographs as much as they value emails or text messages.
And? Writers are not outstandingly keen on people stealing their words, either, even if they're 'only' emails or text messages. This is nothing to do with the medium, be it film or digital. Copyright is still copyright.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #22
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Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
It's deceptive all the same, it's labeled "Sharing" when it really is providing content for them to monetize with no interest to compensate you in any way, which brings me to the other point.

Yes, it is true, people who find they need to feel like they are good at taking photos will seek out praise anywhere they can get it. And the sad thing is that what they think getting published means is gone, in the past. It used to be hard to get published and people got paid for it so it was looked up to...it was something to aspire to.

So idiot amateurs act like that it is still something to aspire to when it is simply not. All getting published means without monetary compensation today is that you got taken advantage of, your image was used for free and that promise of a photo credit being good exposure is worthless, all you are being exposed to is more Freetography™.

Amateurs who give their photos away for free are living a lie, they think it has to be worth something...anything and it is not, it is worthless.
Yes! See my previous post.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #23
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One response to this whole debacle; http://jimcolton.com/blog/2013/5/21/...g-on-the-grave
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Old 05-22-2013   #24
FA Limited
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One response to this whole debacle; http://jimcolton.com/blog/2013/5/21/...g-on-the-grave
i don't see why everyone is quoting him and calling this a "debacle"
he clearly got trolled
at least he's getting a bunch of hits
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Old 05-22-2013   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
They license photos. In fact, the Flickr terms are very explicit and respectful and descriptive as to how they are used.

If you don't pay, why complain? Go somewhere else or set up your own service for your photos.

Yes! ......
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Old 05-22-2013   #26
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Originally Posted by FA Limited View Post
well we can still be pissed off at the new layout
You can, but you shouldn't. At last, Flickr looks goooooooooooood
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Old 05-22-2013   #27
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From Leica:

Quote:
Stephan Schulz: Leica had a long history with professionals throughout the 20th century. Most of these professionals were photojournalists. But we realized that in the 21st century, the image of our brand was becoming weaker because Leica was no longer as strongly represented among professionals.

In today’s professional market, photojournalists are a rare breed, and they are no longer as well paid as in previous generations. For a high-end brand that charges premium prices, this secular trend needed to be addressed.

We deemed it essential to maintain a strong position in the professional market, but we realized that we needed to fundamentally reinvent our approach. Above all, we needed a product that could appeal to the kind of professional photographers who are able to afford a professional camera. Today, these photographers predominantly work in fashion and commercial photography. They need a different type of camera than photojournalists who use the Leica M. Because of the nature of their assignments, fashion and advertising photographers tend to be committed medium-format users.


If you're not in medium format, most likely using a Leica means you are NOT a pro according to Leica.

Because you cannot afford it.

Leica is more interested in selling their M systems in the Riyadh airport (been there, seen that) than they are at making a product pros can afford.

Leica: "We sell to pros, but only if they can afford our S2 system. The rest have moved below our quality standards and price category"

Leica are too good to drop their premium prices to what the working photographer can afford.

When Flickr says something quote truthful they get slammed but when Leica says something astonishingly similar....it's a double standard.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbabe...its-own-terms/
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Old 05-22-2013   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
From Leica:



If you're not in medium format, most likely using a Leica means you are NOT a pro according to Leica.

Because you cannot afford it.

Leica is more interested in selling their M systems in the Riyadh airport (been there, seen that) than they are at making a product pros can afford.

Leica: "We sell to pros, but only if they can afford our S2 system. The rest have moved below our quality standards and price category"


Leica are too good to drop their premium prices to what the working photographer can afford.

When Flickr says something quote truthful they get slammed but when Leica says something astonishingly similar....it's a double standard.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbabe...its-own-terms/
Who at Leica said this?

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-22-2013   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
From Leica:



If you're not in medium format, most likely using a Leica means you are NOT a pro according to Leica.

Because you cannot afford it.

Leica is more interested in selling their M systems in the Riyadh airport (been there, seen that) than they are at making a product pros can afford.

Leica: "We sell to pros, but only if they can afford our S2 system. The rest have moved below our quality standards and price category"

Leica are too good to drop their premium prices to what the working photographer can afford.

When Flickr says something quote truthful they get slammed but when Leica says something astonishingly similar....it's a double standard.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbabe...its-own-terms/
People like to rant on the internet, it is the only place a lot of people feel "heard", so its not a big deal really, a week from now all of this will be forgotten and people will be ranting about something else.


Internet has made it impossible for people to have an attention span of more than three days.
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Old 05-22-2013   #30
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Who at Leica said this?
Forbes magazine article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbabe...its-own-terms/

Byline:

Stephan Schulz, the Head of Professional Photo at Leica Camera AG, and his team face two of the most fundamental – and tricky – issues in marketing strategy: How do you tack when one of your core audiences melts away? And: how does a company that is strongly identified with one market establish itself in a decidedly different market, in which it is a newcomer?

Pro photographer market for Leica "melts away" says Forbes. That's their editorial take and Leica's interviewee absolutely confirms this. Read the article.
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Old 05-22-2013   #31
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Mayer's saying it because it normalizes the idea that photographers of any kind have no right to keep her from selling their photos for her profit rather than theirs.
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Old 05-22-2013   #32
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Choice is still available? yes? or have i missed something
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Old 05-22-2013   #33
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Big mouth from a representative of a company that has been screwing up more often than I had breakfast. I am actually surprised they had the funds to buy Tumblr, or lunch for that matter...

But seriously, is this big news or shocking? Who cares? And she already corrected herself too.
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Old 05-22-2013   #34
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What leica says abour the S -system is just another marketing trick... Of course there are working photographers that "can afford" leica M, usually along with an array of canon or Nikon SLR`s. Even in Finland, the head of photo department in our biggest daily paper Helsingin Sanomat was a little worried when a group of their photographers wanted M9-P and Monochrom. Yes, they still publish B&W shots just as a lay out trick...
Leica S shooters are those that could afford Hasselblad V system, also Hasselblad H system and now leica S system. It helps that leica has adapters for the lenses of both hassy systems and also pentax 67, mamiya etc... It is not the body alone, you see.. You cry when you have to dump ten times the worth of the S body in lenses , if you are not able to use them anymore. There is the sales pitch of "S" also the bayonet distance of S to the sensor... All the other lenses fit...
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Old 05-23-2013   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
Forbes magazine article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbabe...its-own-terms/

Byline:

Stephan Schulz, the Head of Professional Photo at Leica Camera AG, and his team face two of the most fundamental – and tricky – issues in marketing strategy: How do you tack when one of your core audiences melts away? And: how does a company that is strongly identified with one market establish itself in a decidedly different market, in which it is a newcomer?

Pro photographer market for Leica "melts away" says Forbes. That's their editorial take and Leica's interviewee absolutely confirms this. Read the article.
I did. Twice. There is nothing in it to to justify the "quote" you gave about "We sell to pros, but only if they can afford our S2 system. The rest have moved below our quality standards and price category." In fact, I couldn't actually see the "quote" you gave at all: I've just re-read it a third time and failed to spot it.

What is more, your quote above -- which isn't a by-line, incidentally -- is not from Leica but from Forbes magazine.

Cheers,

R.

Last edited by Roger Hicks : 05-23-2013 at 04:29. Reason: typo
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Old 05-23-2013   #36
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People like to rant on the internet, it is the only place a lot of people feel "heard", so its not a big deal really, a week from now all of this will be forgotten and people will be ranting about something else.


Internet has made it impossible for people to have an attention span of more than three days.
DAYS?

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-23-2013   #37
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She give everyone 1TB of free storage, 1 TB hard drive costs ~$70. [...]
But not using a huge server farm!
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Old 05-23-2013   #38
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Those photographers who come from a film background value photographs in a commodity sense. Those who got into photography during digital era value photographs as much as they value emails or text messages.
Shure? All right. Please send me your private and business emails of the last few years: It is just for sharing. Or publish it yourself on a preferred web site.
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Old 05-23-2013   #39
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I can't see why someone would be offended by this... CEOs make boneheaded statements often...
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Old 05-23-2013   #40
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Marissa Mayer Sorry for “Misstatement” on Professional Photographers

Read more at http://petapixel.com/2013/05/22/mari...dWEUI5WlkOE.99


http://petapixel.com/2013/05/22/mari...photographers/
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