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Why I prefer Nikkormat over metered M
Old 02-05-2020   #1
Ko.Fe.
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Why I prefer Nikkormat over metered M

If I would still taking pictures as I used to take them, then metered M is great.
It was stand still, picture to be taken no matter what. I used to be tourist on business travel.
Now I don’t want to take pictures before I measure and even if I measure, I often don’t take it.
And metered film Leica is so dumb compared to Nikkormat for it. With this cheap SLR I could measure at any time, even more so, I could look at exposure indicator on the top plate, no need to check VF meter for it.
With Leica shutter needs to be cocked and then here is no lock for it if camera needs to go to camera bag with still cocked shutter. And to be in it until next morning. Not something to enjoy with 14 usd roll of cinefilm, which costs another 5 usd at least to develop.
S16 is still best feature for film M I use it often. Great on batteries!
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Old 02-05-2020   #2
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Old 02-05-2020   #3
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I like my Nikkormat.

Bought it in 1972 while serving in the military.

Only item I’ve replaced is the rubber bumper the mirror hits when releasing the shutter.
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Old 02-05-2020   #4
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OK All of the manual Nikons that I know have the feature of turning off the meter when the advance lever is pushed into the body.

With the Leica M6 you can do the same by setting the shutter at 1/50 or B. To lock the shutter you screw in a soft release on the shutter button and wedge a piece of plastic of the appropriate thickness under it. Works for me - but not as convenient of course.
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Old 02-05-2020   #5
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Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
Not sure I follow this?
Reads a little like I'd expect the way I would type after 4-5 glasses of peach pecan whiskey....
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Old 02-05-2020   #6
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Reads a little like I'd expect the way I would type after 4-5 glasses of peach pecan whiskey....
In Russian we would say it needs one glass to get it. Go get one, then read again.
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Old 02-05-2020   #7
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My Nikon FM is well built, has a shutter release lock, a meter that is accurate and easy to use, it never needs it’s focusing mechanism adjusted, and accepts brilliant (and inexpensive) lenses. I could never afford the Leica version of the 50/1.2.
I hardly ever shoot with my M2 anymore.
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Old 02-05-2020   #8
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Ah, the good old Nikkormat. Got my first one back in '73, Ko, by trading in a Voigtlander Vitessa L, and a month's worth of Navy pay (had to get the 50/1.4 with it). In a low period for me a few years later I sold it to an old high school buddy because I wasn't using it. Didn't take long before I missed it, but much longer before I replaced it.

But I can't say as I'd go with it as my only camera. As much as I like the way it handles and operates, I've other Nikons that are just as versatile or more, and now I would use them before dragging out the Nikkormat unless it was the FT3.

I used my M4-P for so long without a meter that even though it now sports a VCII, I sometimes forget it's even up there. And I have a couple of Nikkormats that are more like the non-metered F since their carbon slides have worn out (yes, I have a non-metered F also, and like it a lot).

My main need for a meter is when the light gets really iffy, and Sunny-16 breaks down because one has to start changing the shutter speed. That's when I lose track of how many stops I'm at, and forget to change settings when the light changes, or just can't guess what stop I should be at.

But it's nice to see you are a fan of the old Nikomat/Nikkormat, Kostya, and I wish you nothing but the best light when you are out with it.

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Old 02-05-2020   #9
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The Nikkormat is a bargain today. I use an FT2 with a 28mm lens.

Nikkormats have mirror lock-up, easy DOF preview, self-timer, are reliable, and are very rugged. The bodies are relatively inexpensive. The shutter speed is visible in the viewfinder. The meter needle is visible in the finder and top plate. I don't think any other inexpensive camera can match that. It's a good platform for the Nikkor lenses.

I like the FT2 because it accepts modern batteries and I can meter wide open with both pre-AI and AI lenses.

FT and FTN use obsolete batteries.

FT3 uses modern batteries, but with pre-AI lenses you have to close the aperture for metering.
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Old 02-05-2020   #10
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If you want an RF with a meter on the top plate, spring for a Konica Auto S2, great lens and viewfinder. Refurbed examples cost nothing compared to an M6.
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Old 02-05-2020   #11
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Yes, Nikkormats (aka Nikomats, but the same camera) are basic cameras. Built from cast iron and held together with ocean liner rivets. Ideal as a defence weapon if you are attacked by a mob of hooligans. Bash their heads in with it, pick it up and shoot photos of the bones and blood.

I've had FTNs, ELs and FT2s. Oddly, ELs have been my longest lasting cameras. I've owned two of my three since the late 1970s when I bought them new and they are still working and metering perfectly.

FT2s (I have two) are the best Nikkormat to use, tho. More like Nikons of that era.

I've always thought if I had only one camera and it wasn't a Rolleiflex (my first choice), then an FT2 or EL with a 28/2.8 or 35 would see me good for a lifetime.

Best of all, they are still dirt cheap (but going up fast in price) on Ebay and in charity shops, you can often find FTNs in working order with a 50/2 for $100 or less.

Do many other 1960s and 1970s cameras rate such accolades? Some (Pentax comes to mind) but not very many.
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Old 02-05-2020   #12
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I have a Nikkormat FT2 and like all of them the meters go flaky due to wear on the resistor ring. I don't think anyone fixes that because no-one wants to make a $50 part for a $20 camera.
Where metered Nikkormats really suck is the meter has a very poor measuring range. It cannot read in dim light - just reads down to EV3 which is about 1/4 sec at 1.4
In comparison the light meter range of a Leica M6 is EV 0 to EV 20, while the M7 officially reads from EV -2 to EV 20, even though it can time the shutter down to 32 seconds.
Also with the M7 if you turn the power switch to OFF it also locks the shutter button.

I like my Nikkormat. Don't see how it compares to a Leica though apart from light tight box with lens.
One thing - the Nikkormat has a much nicer film wind feel than the floppy mess that is on the F3.
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Old 02-06-2020   #13
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The only reasons I prefer Nikkormat over metered M is better metering.
Don’t know why this big and heavy camera, I have tried many other slrs.
Maybe because of all mentioned above.
I just don’t need metering this often and this dumb as on film Ms
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Old 02-06-2020   #14
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The plot thickens...
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Old 02-06-2020   #15
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Take batteries off Leica M6 and use pocket hand-held meter with luvly needles then you can measure light everywhere and anytime without looking thru camera viewfinder and without cocking camera shutter and it also works without film in camera.
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Old 02-06-2020   #16
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I love my Nikon's deeply, enough to own 4 of the 6 Professional "F" series cameras, an FE, and a FM2n... but my M6 TTL is irreplaceable to me - it's the camera I grab I grab 9/10 times when I leave the house without the intent to go take pictures. I use it to document life mainly which could certainly be done easily with any of my Nikons, but I prefer to do it with a rangefinder.

It's hard to say exactly why, maybe it's the relatively small body size, the ability to see outside the frame lines, or otherwise...
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Old 02-06-2020   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrose125 View Post
... my M6 TTL is irreplaceable to me - it's the camera I grab I grab 9/10 times when I leave the house without the intent to go take pictures.

Then what do you use the M6 for?
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Old 02-06-2020   #18
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This never happens to my M6..
As its always in it's Gold and Platinum embossed case lined with the finest Merino wool..
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Old 02-06-2020   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
S16 is still best feature for film M I use it often. Great on batteries! I just don’t need metering this often
why not sunny 16 with your Nikkormats?
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Old 02-06-2020   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
why not sunny 16 with your Nikkormats?
Yes, I prefer S16 in general.
But why I have to use S16 on Nikkormats which are superior in metering comparing to bad metering implementation on film M like M6?
I prefer Nikkormat as metered camera. Non metered, I prefer M and LTM.
Well, my next project is Nikon F2 with Russar VF instead of prism and Vivitar 20 3.8.
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Old 02-06-2020   #21
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Just asking; it's your choice, after all. You don't *have* to do anything.

If M6 metering is 'bad' and you're getting good results with sunny 16 instead, then it certainly could be used with good results on the Nikkormats.
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Old 02-06-2020   #22
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It's been a long time since I practiced doing the Nikkormat shuffle when changing lenses - but I can appreciate the practice of presetting the camera's aperture, shutter speed and focus before bringing the viewfinder up to one's eye. A top mounted light meter does facilitate this, which is why I like the Voigtlander VCII meter on my older rigs.
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Old 02-06-2020   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
The only reasons I prefer Nikkormat over metered M is better metering.
Don’t know why this big and heavy camera, I have tried many other slrs.
Maybe because of all mentioned above.
I just don’t need metering this often and this dumb as on film Ms
Better metering from a much less sensitive meter that in most bodies are flaky (jumpy needles, incorrect readings) by now?

Gotcha.

I really like my sweet black Nikkormat FT2. Best $20 I spent. But for conditions where I need a meter (dim lighting/dusk/evening) it is useless. As is yours if you try to use the meter that will no longer read at those light levels.
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Old 02-06-2020   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
Take batteries off Leica M6 and use pocket hand-held meter with luvly needles then you can measure light everywhere and anytime without looking thru camera viewfinder and without cocking camera shutter and it also works without film in camera.
Just found this video.
https://youtu.be/MhSaR5ckKZI
He is using MP and mobile phone for metering, but S16 most of the time. With MP.
I use M4-2.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Better metering from a much less sensitive meter that in most bodies are flaky (jumpy needles, incorrect readings) by now?

Gotcha.

I really like my sweet black Nikkormat FT2. Best $20 I spent. But for conditions where I need a meter (dim lighting/dusk/evening) it is useless. As is yours if you try to use the meter that will no longer read at those light levels.
Strange. Dim lightning, dusk, evening and no sun winter is where Nikkormat I have is so handy if I feel lazy and don't want to meter by my brain.
I know where aperture is on the lens, I get sense about shutter speed and all I have to do with Nikkormat is to pull out shutter lever and check where is meter needle stays.

I know what I like in Nikkormat in this regard. The needle, meter are very responsible. Canon FTb and Keiv-19M were very slow.
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Old 02-06-2020   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post


Strange. Dim lightning, dusk, evening and no sun winter is where Nikkormat I have is so handy if I feel lazy and don't want to meter by my brain.
I know where aperture is on the lens, I get sense about shutter speed and all I have to do with Nikkormat is to pull out shutter lever and check where is meter needle stays.

I know what I like in Nikkormat in this regard. The needle, meter are very responsible. Canon FTb and Keiv-19M were very slow.

Yah, no. The meter does not work at low light levels. I had two, gave one to my nephew, kept the other. Does not work. It only reads down to EV 3 like a P&S camera.
Works great at Sunny F16 levels, but in those conditions I don't need a meter.
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Old 02-06-2020   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
It only reads down to EV 3 like a P&S camera.
Works great at Sunny F16 levels, but in those conditions I don't need a meter.

Somehow I doubt Ko.Fe. is using his in lighting as dim as EV3. That's what, ten or eleven stops dimmer than sunny bright I think? But your point is important.... I tend to think that the Nikkormat's meter is at its greatest accuracy the closer you get to sunny bright. Ten stops less than sunny bright I'm going to trust my Sekonic incident meter or my Pentax spotmeter before I trust the jumpy 'ol Nikkormat meter.
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Old 02-06-2020   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Yah, no. The meter does not work at low light levels. I had two, gave one to my nephew, kept the other. Does not work. It only reads down to EV 3 like a P&S camera.
Works great at Sunny F16 levels, but in those conditions I don't need a meter.
EV3? Sorry, I'm not evian .

Nikkormat metered images.







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Old 02-06-2020   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
EV3? Sorry, I'm not evian .

Nikkormat metered images.
what am I looking at?
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Old 02-06-2020   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
what am I looking at?

It gets dark early in Canada, don't ya know?
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Old 02-06-2020   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
what am I looking at?
Quote:
dim lighting/dusk/evening
metered, taken by Nikkormat.
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Old 02-06-2020   #31
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For some reason I thought you were going completely digital? Makes no difference though — as long as you are content with your tools there is no need to justify your preferences. I just look forward to seeing more of your images regardless of the camera you choose to use. Enjoy!
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Old 02-06-2020   #32
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For some reason I thought you were going completely digital? Makes no difference though — as long as you are content with your tools there is no need to justify your preferences. I just look forward to seeing more of your images regardless of the camera you choose to use. Enjoy!
Thank you!
I'm looking for everyday digital, but so far... Good thing, some of my film gear which I don't use is going up in price.
I like the "quality" I'm getting on film, but the content is easier to get on digital. I have negatives of archival sleeves to print, but no time for it...
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Old 02-06-2020   #33
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This one is also with a Nikkormat: FTn and Nikkor H 50mm f/2 on TriX. 1973, Ronda, Spain, the town were Hemingway lived.

Erik.

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Old 02-06-2020   #34
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Nice shots Ko.Fe and Erik!
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Old 02-06-2020   #35
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Those Nikkormats look cool. I have way too many vintage cameras as is. I have an FM2 that I can get my Nikon fix with I suppose.
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Old 02-06-2020   #36
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I have a "thing" about not cocking the shutter until I'm definitely going to take a picture. With the metered Ms (M5 and M6 are what I know), the meter doesn't turn on unless you have cocked the shutter. A drawback.

With the Nikkormats and Nikons, pull the wind lever out to its standoff position and the meter's on. Push in back in to shut it off, no need to cock the shutter. With the Nikkormats (not the EL) you can see the meter readout on the top deck -- no need to look in the viewfinder. Stealthy (for you street shooters).

Yes, the meter can be jumpy these days. But I think the center-weighted metering pattern is more usable for most situations than the Ms' spot pattern. And its metering range is plenty wide.
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Old 02-06-2020   #37
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Quote:
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I have a "thing" about not cocking the shutter until I'm definitely going to take a picture. With the metered Ms (M5 and M6 are what I know), the meter doesn't turn on unless you have cocked the shutter. A drawback.

With the Nikkormats and Nikons, pull the wind lever out to its standoff position and the meter's on. Push in back in to shut it off, no need to cock the shutter. With the Nikkormats (not the EL) you can see the meter readout on the top deck -- no need to look in the viewfinder. Stealthy (for you street shooters).

Yes, the meter can be jumpy these days. But I think the center-weighted metering pattern is more usable for most situations than the Ms' spot pattern. And its metering range is plenty wide.
MEter on top w/o cocking shutter on Canon 7s. for Nikon, I stick with Fm3a.
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Old 02-06-2020   #38
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Then what do you use the M6 for?
By that, I mean that I take it with me everywhere. When I leave the house the intent of making images, I might grab one of my Nikons or perhaps my Rolleiflex.
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Old 02-06-2020   #39
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The chart at the bottom of this page,

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photograph...ml/history.htm

states that the meter's ring resistor on the EL, EL2, and ELW is more durable than FT-series Nikkormats.

The meters on my FT2 and EL are still accurate (I've compared with meters in modern cameras).

There ought to be a a small but profitable market for repairing or devising a replacement ring resistor for all the Nikkormats and a similar one for all the Nikon F, F2 heads.

The metering pattern is different between M6 and Nikon, so a person chooses what he likes best for his photographic style.

I chose EL over EL2 for the same reason as FT2 over FT3: ability to meter wide open with pre-AI.
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Old 02-06-2020   #40
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Never got the hype for Nikomats. I prefer my Exa.
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