Leica M9P, M9M, or SL?
Old 11-07-2019   #1
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Leica M9P, M9M, or SL?

If each camera costs $3000, which would you buy and use?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2019   #2
heavyweather
Registered User
 
heavyweather is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 10
Put it in an interest bearing account and hold out for the M10M. Sensor issues with the M9 and the SL being mostly a Panasonic rebadge would dissuade me from any of them.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2019   #3
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 79
Posts: 6,313
If the way I've been feeling the last few days holds out, I would go for the M9M. I think its high quality black and white and good high-ISO performance would enhance my photography more so than the other two (and I already have an M9 non-p, and I think you do, too, Raid).
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2019   #4
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 8,094
IMHO.

M9P has nothing over M-E mk 1 I have. Pictures are the same.
SL is just wanna feel good camera because it has Leica on it, while it is nothing but Sony A7 knock-off. Most likely SL has Sony made sensor in it.

IMHO.

M9M is unique camera. By results.
M9M is not in exact 3000 USD price mark, yet. Once it is, I'll sell most of my photo gear what I have to get one. My J-12 from 1950 will do well on it. It is fine on M-E. And I could still use same batteries, charger as for M-E mk 1.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2019   #5
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
 
filmtwit's Avatar
 
filmtwit is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,122
for that price, you're better off with an M240
__________________
Instgram
https://www.instagram.com/filmtwit/

The Flickr Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/filmtwit/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2019   #6
aizan
Registered User
 
aizan's Avatar
 
aizan is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,802
Is none an option? $1500 and I might be tempted. I’d pay $3000 only for the M10.
__________________
Ugly Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #7
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Of course you can choose none. The M10 still sells for more than $3000.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #8
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmtwit View Post
for that price, you're better off with an M240
The M240 is an efficient “photo machine “,
Do you view it as an elegant camera?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #9
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
IMHO.

M9P has nothing over M-E mk 1 I have. Pictures are the same.
SL is just wanna feel good camera because it has Leica on it, while it is nothing but Sony A7 knock-off. Most likely SL has Sony made sensor in it.

IMHO.

M9M is unique camera. By results.
M9M is not in exact 3000 USD price mark, yet. Once it is, I'll sell most of my photo gear what I have to get one. My J-12 from 1950 will do well on it. It is fine on M-E. And I could still use same batteries, charger as for M-E mk 1.
Leica seems to sell for euro 3500 for refurbished M9M.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #10
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 8,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Leica seems to sell for euro 3500 for refurbished M9M.
Plus taxes. After exchange it is in 4000 USD territory, not my 3000$ + tax ceiling.

For 4000 USD I'd rather take new M-E Mk2. It is not Monochrome by the images, but weather sealed and battery is Canada proofed.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #11
airfrogusmc
Registered User
 
airfrogusmc is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,895
M9M would be my vote.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #12
Dektol Dan
Registered User
 
Dektol Dan is online now
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 935
I have an M9M, so you first choice was mine! BUT the M10 B&W is pretty good.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #13
CVickery
Registered User
 
CVickery is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 166
I used to have a M9 (replaced with the M10), still own the M9M, and just picked up a SL. For me, the main reason to own any of these camera is to use M-mount lenses. If I didn't own any other colour digital Leica M-mount cameras, of these three, for colour, I'd pick up the SL. Ko.Fe. seems to think it's just a Sony in disguise, but it works way better with M-mount lenses than any Sony (or other mirrorless) that I've tried. Operationally it works better than the M9...very much more up to date, less idiosyncratic than the M9. You do need to be able to live without the optical viewfinder though.

The M9M is a different issue. If you generally don't shoot colour, or have other options for colour, I really like the M9M and I'd probably pick it over the SL if B&W was the goal.
__________________
_____________________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #14
heavyweather
Registered User
 
heavyweather is offline
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 10
Silly question, but can you use "color filter" RAW post-processing techniques on the M9M? It's a feature I use frequently when processing M10 images as BW.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #15
CVickery
Registered User
 
CVickery is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyweather View Post
Silly question, but can you use "color filter" RAW post-processing techniques on the M9M? It's a feature I use frequently when processing M10 images as BW.
No, that option is not available...but you can use real colour filters when you are shooting. I typically use a yellow or orange on most lenses.
__________________
_____________________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #16
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 71
Posts: 6,243
I would say M9M :-)
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #17
Mcary
Registered User
 
Mcary is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia USA
Age: 58
Posts: 1,789
Of the given choices I'd go with the M9M, as long it has the new version of the sensor cover, as I already have an M9 and have no real interest in the SL. If I was to buy any camera in the next year or so it would be a M9M or the M10. The main reasons I would consider the M9M along side the M10 is I can use my current batteries from my M9 and getting a M10 would require getting a new computer as my Mac Mini is from 2012 and would need to be updated so that I can run the operating system and software needed process the DNG files from the M10.

Note I got to barrow an M10 for a day and really like the out of the camera B&W JPEGs especially when processed with Silver Efex Pro 2 but not sure if I'd want to spend $5000+ for a camera that I'd only be able to shoot JPEG with for a year or so while saying up the $$ for a new Mac Mini.
__________________
M. Cary
Trying to see something new whither I'm visiting someplace new or a place that I've visited many a time before.


  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #18
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
I would say M9M :-)
You would not get an M10, Robert?!
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #19
MCTuomey
Registered User
 
MCTuomey's Avatar
 
MCTuomey is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: U.S.
Age: 66
Posts: 3,312
What *cvickery* said. For varied types of shooting with the full range of Leica lenses, MF and AF, prime and zooms, SL is my vote.

If I knew I’d only shoot a few M primes, then either M body, with a lean to the M9M unless I had to have color.
__________________
--Mike

My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #20
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 8,094
I see zero point of using manual focus lenses on AF body. SL is included. It should have good native, AF lenses.
But I understand. It is hard to let go to good lenses. Like Leica M.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #21
Takkun
Ian M.
 
Takkun's Avatar
 
Takkun is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sunny South Seattle
Posts: 804
Well, I paid a lot less than that for my 262, so that's my real-world answer.

But within the constraints of your question...tough. The Monochrom's don't interest me; I shoot digital for color, or for applications I need color.

SL also doesn't interest me too much. Got to play with one in store, EVF was impressive, everything else...I'd rather buy a Nikon for that price. Lenses notwithstanding, the body itself doesn't jump out among a sea of mirrorless bodies, but then again, I'm not up-and-up on the latest tech.

I like RFs. Real, optical RFs. So that leaves M9P. Almost bought one until I found the 262.
__________________
Ian M., Seattle
Current bag contents: Just a Fuji GX680iii. Nothing else will fit.

--
my infrequently updated blog
Finally on Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #22
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
If I deviate from the set $3000 limit as the max amount to be spent, and if I would go for a RF camera, it will be M10.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #23
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 8,094
Raid, are you testing some AI software with your students here? I have no idea what you just wrote. Is it possible to put it in English for dummies?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-08-2019   #24
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Raid, are you testing some AI software with your students here? I have no idea what you just wrote. Is it possible to put it in English for dummies?
OK, let's try something just for you: I meant to say that if were considering getting a RF camera and if the limit to be spend exceeds $3000, then I would think of getting an M10.

This requires AI!
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2019   #25
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 71
Posts: 6,243
if not M9M is M10 ! If not M10 is SL ! If not SL is...so nice to have options
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2019   #26
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,719
Answer the question which, if any, would actually improve your photographs.
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2019   #27
Michael Markey
Registered User
 
Michael Markey's Avatar
 
Michael Markey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Blackpool ,England
Age: 69
Posts: 4,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Answer the question which, if any, would actually improve your photographs.
Jaguar ,BMW , Mercedes .

Which if any would improve your driving.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-09-2019   #28
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 8,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Answer the question which, if any, would actually improve your photographs.
How about convenience first? Or even pleasure.

Going from FF DSLR to M9P might bring convenience (small kit) and pleasure (Leica).
Going to M9M is convenience for sure (no film).
Going SL is convenience of adult age (AF) and it is still, kind of, Leica.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2019   #29
Alberti
Registered User
 
Alberti's Avatar
 
Alberti is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Holland
Posts: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The M240 is an efficient “photo machine “,
Do you view it as an elegant camera?
The M240 is indeed efficient, but not as ergonomically fine as the M8 was for the connoisseur. The framelines are too tight. The distance in which the framelines are projected is just too close, making it harder to see and focus.
And it is rather clumsy.
I'm looking for an M9, waiting for the used prices to be about USD 1500. Won't take long.
__________________
Nil camera, sed usus (after an emblematic text)
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-19-2019   #30
jarski
Registered User
 
jarski's Avatar
 
jarski is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberti View Post
The M240 is indeed efficient, but not as ergonomically fine as the M8 was for the connoisseur. ...
don't know if am a connoisseur, but owning both and using them parallel quite a bit past month or so. I find this comment bit odd. how does M240 not be as ergonomically fine as M8?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-19-2019   #31
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 79
Posts: 6,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberti View Post
The M240 is indeed efficient, but not as ergonomically fine as the M8 was for the connoisseur. The framelines are too tight. The distance in which the framelines are projected is just too close, making it harder to see and focus.
And it is rather clumsy.
I'm looking for an M9, waiting for the used prices to be about USD 1500. Won't take long.
And the M9 is better for carrying on the aesthetic aspect as well, because it has the viewfinder illuminator window!

Thanks for the info on the M240 framelines. I don't like undersized framelines, either!
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-19-2019   #32
Alberti
Registered User
 
Alberti's Avatar
 
Alberti is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Holland
Posts: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
And the M9 is better for carrying on the aesthetic aspect as well, because it has the viewfinder illuminator window!

Thanks for the info on the M240 framelines. I don't like undersized framelines, either!
The M9 I have heard has undersized framelines too.
But maybe the M240 is worse. The 40mm really doesn't fit the 35mm and even the 50mm Canon does not fit (Does it have a slightly less amount of mm focus than the Leica originals??)
The M240 has many good points going for it though also.
__________________
Nil camera, sed usus (after an emblematic text)
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-19-2019   #33
jarski
Registered User
 
jarski's Avatar
 
jarski is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,645
am appreciating bigger battery (bigger than in M10 actually), silent shutter, more modern and better *everything*, over the previous versions. am still happily shooting M8 though and plan keeping it.

only think am not liking in M240 is its odd name oh, and a wifi would be nice also, but there's ways around that.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2019   #34
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 79
Posts: 6,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberti View Post
The M9 I have heard has undersized framelines too.
But the m9 framelines are not dreadfully undersized, At least the M9 is sized (I think) for a 1 meter distance, not .7M, as the M6, M7, and MP are. The M8.2, sized for 2M, was even better that way.

It is the dreadfully undersized 50mm frameline of the M6/7/P that bothers me the most. Not a problem with the M9.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2019   #35
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 62
Posts: 10,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
What *cvickery* said. For varied types of shooting with the full range of Leica lenses, MF and AF, prime and zooms, SL is my vote.

If I knew I’d only shoot a few M primes, then either M body, with a lean to the M9M unless I had to have color.
Plus One.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2019   #36
JeffS7444
Registered User
 
JeffS7444 is online now
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 203
$3000 budget? M240, of course! Have already owned an M9, and briefly sampled a Monochrome but decided it wasn't right for me. M240 adds live view, which I've never had in an M-camera, but which I think I'd like a lot.

Loved the M8 when I had it, thought that the M9 was a slightly more polished M8, but aside from the blinking clipping indicators, might have done better to save my money for the M240 or newer.

The L-mount camera which interests me the most is the Sigma FP, but that's another discussion...
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2019   #37
willie_901
Registered User
 
willie_901's Avatar
 
willie_901 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
If each camera costs $3000, which would you buy and use?
Limited to these 3 camera, my choice would be the SL.

The SL 's (Type 601) signal-to-noise ratio is significantly higher that the M9s'.

The SNR differences translate to about 1 1/3 stop more dynamic range in bright light. In low light the SL has about a 2 EV higher sensitivity compared to the M9 and 2/3 stop for the M9M.

SNR is an important variable in perceived image quality in both bright light (dynamic range) and low light (sensitivity). The SL's SNR is primarily limited by photon noise while the M9s' have a significant read noise component.

BTW: The M240 and M10 have about same and 2/3 stop more sensitivity, respectively, compared to the SL. The dynamic range for the M240, M10 and SL are similar. Again, their SNR is limited by photon noise instead of camera read noise.
__________________
Basically, I mean, ah—well, let’s say that for me anyway when a photograph is interesting, it’s interesting because of the kind of photographic problem it states—which has to do with the . . . contest between content and form.
Garry Winogrand
williamchuttonjr.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2019   #38
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Thanks for your feedback, Willie. Am I correctly understanding you saying that the M10 can stand its ground against the SL, so to speak?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2019   #39
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
Plus One.

Cal
Such talk can result in costly GAS, Cal. An SL suggests getting an SL2. Having M lenses may suggest to also get L lenses.
Where will it end!
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2019   #40
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 8,094
Is this rhetorical question or you really want to stop?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:37.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.