35mm Summicron
Old 02-09-2020   #1
xasthur
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35mm Summicron

Hey all,

I bought this M3 and lens from someone today for $800. (he needed money for car repair). From what I searched on the serial number on the body it's from 65 I believe. From what I gathered from the serial number on the lens it's from 59?. I assumed that price with the body and lens was a good one so I got it. I'm gonna have the lens CLA'd to clear to haze in there.

So my question is about how much does this lens sell for? I saw one on ebay that looked like mine and it's selling for a outrageous price (for me anyways). I'm just curious to know if anyone could shed anymore light/info about the lens because I know there are people on here that know way more these than me.



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Old 02-09-2020   #2
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You stole the camera and lens. Not up on pricing, but a late M3 has all the improvements and it all depends on condition.
The lens is the first 35 F2 and collectible. Chinese are making copies.

M3 has frame lines for 50 90 135. There are no matching frame lines for 35 mm
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Old 02-09-2020   #3
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Congratulations. An average condition 35 2 Summicron first version alone could sell for at least $2000 nowadays. You have to send the lens to a repairman see if the haze you mentioned can be cleaned or not. If the haze issue is very slight and with no other serious issue, you can easily sell it for a lot of money compare to what you pay for.

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Old 02-09-2020   #4
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You for sure stole it but to get the most out of it, you need it to come off the M3 and put it on an M2 where the viewfinder is optimized for 35mm.

Don't be concerned with dollars. It's the 8-Element worth an easy $2500 if in as good shape as it appears here, and more if it were black. Nice score, use it well!

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Old 02-09-2020   #5
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Lens value depends on glass condition, inspect it with an LED flashlight and tell us what degree of haze, and anything else you see. Does the aperture and focus move smoothly?
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Old 02-09-2020   #6
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There is a lot of haze no fungus tho. The focus is really smooth and aperture is nice and clicky, easy to move. The main problem is definitely the haze for sure

I'm hoping it can be cleaned enough so I can use it at least.


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Old 02-09-2020   #7
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There is a lot of haze no fungus tho. The focus is really smooth and aperture is nice and clicky, easy to move. The main problem is definitely the haze for sure

I'm hoping it can be cleaned enough so I can use it at least.
It seems very serious. I have a goggle version serial #1656546, which is very close to yours, and the haze inside my lens looks exactly like yours. It makes me believe that the early batch of this lens are prone to haze issue. I send the lens to Don (famous technician in the States), but he was not able to clean it as he said the haze is permanent...

Still worth a try in my opinion. You got this combo real cheap. Good luck.

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Old 02-09-2020   #8
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Originally Posted by KEVIN-XU 愛 forever View Post
It seems very serious. I have a goggle version serial #1656546, which is very close to yours, and the haze inside my lens looks exactly like yours. It makes me believe that the early batch of this lens are prone to haze issue. I send the lens to Don (famous technician in the States), and he was not able to clean it as he said the haze is permanent... Still worth a try. You got this combo real cheap. Good luck.

Kevin
Have you tried to use the lens with that amount of haze? I don't have another lens to use with it. At least the body is nice and seems to work perfectly fine.
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Old 02-09-2020   #9
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Seconding Kevin's remarks. The uniformity of the haze worries me a bit. From my experience if it looks more uneven or like droplets it can be usually cleaned well.

Still at that price it's totally worth a shot to send to a repairman. I doubt you'd lose any money on it if you sold it on when it turns out to be not repairable. That would be still a "free" M3 at the very least.
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Old 02-09-2020   #10
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Have you tried to use the lens with that amount of haze? I don't have another lens to use with it. At least the body is nice and seems to work perfectly fine.
Before you load up any film, hold up the camera with the back flap open and no lens on the front to a strong light source. Check the shutter curtain for tiny pinholes. Be sure to check the shutter in both cocked and uncocked states.

What a hazy lens does depends also on the nature of the light you're shooting in. It most likely would produce a glowy picture in contrasty light, especially back-lit situations will likely result in a very low contrast dreamy look. In dim or very diffuse light the lens will likely draw almost normally.
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Old 02-09-2020   #11
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Have you tried to use the lens with that amount of haze? I don't have another lens to use with it. At least the body is nice and seems to work perfectly fine.

Yes I did try to use it after I received it back from Don. I use it on my M10 and the result looks really hazy as you can imagine that the amount of haze inside the lens would affect a lot on the picture. I keep the lens as repair parts.

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Old 02-09-2020   #12
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How unfortunate for me. If nothing can be done with it do you think it would be worth anything to actually offer it up for sale? If it's really that bad and there's nothing that can be done, I don't see any reason to keep it.

On better news, I checked the both curtains against strong light and see no pinholes or light through them. yay
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Old 02-09-2020   #13
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Good news on the curtains. You're already ahead with $800 on the body alone in my opinion.

I'd see the lens as a sort of "freebie" bonus. And yes even if you say - pay another $150 for an unsuccessful repair - I totally see you being able to sell it (quickly to boot) for $1000 or more in that condition. I've seen some sell in truly pitiful condition. A beater with goggles sold for ~$1250 recently.
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Old 02-09-2020   #14
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I agree with TenEleven. You could still earn decent by selling the lens as is. This lens is collectible. I guess many people out there would like to have it as parts for repair.
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Old 02-09-2020   #15
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Originally Posted by KEVIN-XU 愛 forever View Post
I agree with TenEleven. You could still earn decent by selling the lens as is. This lens is collectible. I guess many people out there would like to have it as parts for repair.
Yes, I agree! I assume that it is still useful because you can use the helicoid part to convert a goggles good condition lens into a non-goggled version without having to drill/hack or otherwise mutilate the lens.
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Old 02-10-2020   #16
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If DAG cannot fix it, Kanto camera may be able to fix it. They can polish and re-coat a hazy element. Focal Point in the US used to do this but the owner, John van Stelten, retired. Gevorg at Arax in Ukraine also used to do this, but closed down. Kanto is your last option as far as I can tell. Expect it to be expensive, but the lens will be as good, maybe better, than new.

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Old 02-10-2020   #17
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If DAG cannot fix it, Kanto camera may be able to fix it. They can polish and re-coat a hazy element. Focal Point in the US used to do this but the owner, John van Stelten, retired. Gevorg at Arax in Ukraine also used to do this, but closed down. Kanto is your last option as far as I can tell. Expect it to be expensive, but the lens will be as good, maybe better, than new.

Marty
Kanto is a possibility, however - from my experience they seem to "randomly" turn you away with some items. This was always strange to me as with others that seem just as - if not more - trashed - they basically do magic. It is however absolutely not cheap.

Reworking a Summilux, including adjustment, re-coating, re-cementing lens elements etc. ran close to $1000, takes about 4 months and a good outcome can not always be guaranteed.
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Old 02-10-2020   #18
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This lens doesn't have matching framelines anyway. So, no reason to keep it.
But I would open it to check if haze is removable. It is not complicated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf-xzBVlCRo
If I not mistaken, front ring is also threaded, not glued in like on modern "economy" after Leitz lenses.
https://youtu.be/GBXQv38bGnM
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Old 02-10-2020   #19
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Just send it to Youxin Ye. He is quick and competent with lenses. His prices are fair. And, he would let you know right away if it's not cleanable. My bet is that it IS cleanable, and you've got yourself a very nice (and collectable!) lens.
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Old 02-10-2020   #20
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Have you tried to use the lens with that amount of haze? I don't have another lens to use with it. At least the body is nice and seems to work perfectly fine.
That amount of haze will reduce contrast quite a bit.

But you're in the lens for essentially nothing, can't hurt to spend a bit to clean it up. It may not clean up completely, but it should be much better.

I'd send it to DAG, I've sent him quite a few lenses that are in similar condition, he's turned them quickly; email him first and ask for price and turnaround. Send him the photos.

Quote:
This lens doesn't have matching framelines anyway. So, no reason to keep it.
The M2 version of this lens is much more desirable than the goggled version. Assuming @xasthur wants to use it, instead of flipping it for big bucks, get a 35mm viewfinder, or use the entire viewfinder to estimate, I did this for years with an M3.
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Old 02-11-2020   #21
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Thank you everyone for replying and providing info. I will be sending it out to someone (not sure who yet) to hopefully get lucky and have it improved good enough so I can actually use it. Pretty bummed that I wont have frame lines. I had a iiia a few years ago and learned zone focusing with it. So I will likely just get a external viewfinder for it and use it that way.

I'm curious on what makes this lens so special? Is it because of the 8 elements within it?

Once I have the lens back I will update this post with the results. Hopefully magic can be achieve so I can take it out and give it a go.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #22
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Hello everyone, have some updates. So i took the lens to my friend who works at a local camera repair shop and who does the repairs himself. First the M3 body.

He opened it up and stated that there was a gear that was tampered with by someone not knowing what they were doing and said that, what would happen is that when you advance the film this gear will continue to get worse and then eventually slip and will need to be replaced. He mentioned that the gear may last a long time or it may not. I chose to leave the gear as is and that I'd use it like that as I don't have the money to repair it.. He offered me a newly serviced M4-2 Leitz Wetzlar for a trade if I was interested. I declined and drove home with the worry that this M3 may have issues or even break leaving me with a brick and no money to repair it. Or I can have a very nice looking M4-2 with the proper framelines for the lens. Upon arriving home after a long thought I figured I'd be more happy and worry free with the M4-2. So I drive back to meet him and traded the M3 body for the other. I feel way better with this since I do not have to worry about anything with it messing up. Onto the lens..

He took he lens apart and did what he could with the high amount of haze that it had. Upon polishing the glass it was revealed that there were a lot of scratches on the 2 center elements that could not be fixed unless it was recoated. It was explained to me that, how it would work in the recoating process is that a layer of the elemement would be ground off and then the recoat would be applied and so on. As you can see in the pictures below the scratches are many. I figured what the hell, I threw in a cheap roll of film and unfortunately, all the images appear to have this very strange glow effect to them which I'm am obviously assuming is the result from the scratched up inner elements. So needless to say I'm trying to decide what to do with the lens now. I'm in contact with A local man who repairs leicas and who also can recoat leica lenses as he has the machinery and equipment for it. (he's retired). With that being said I have not decided what I will ultimately do with the lens. I really do want to revive it, but there are a few different factors involved in that decision.

The amount scratches would likely cause this glowwy look right, and not something else that I'm not aware of?















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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #23
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I can see that the lens performance is totally under common standard of the "Summicron"

Another option is to contact Chinese Light Lens Lab, who make 8 element replica and check it they can do the re-coating service?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #24
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I'm in contact with A local man who repairs leicas and who also can recoat leica lenses as he has the machinery and equipment for it. (he's retired).
]
There are probably many here who would be very interested in obtaining the name, contact information, and background of this person. If you could add that to a post, it would be helpful to everyone. On the other hand, there are others here who, if they knew who this person was, could probably advise you as to whether he was qualified or not to do Leica lens repair and recoating.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #25
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I don't currently feel comfortable of giving this mans info out to the public without asking him first. If I choose to have him recoat my lens and depending on the results, and if he gives me the okay to give out his number or whatever I'll be more than happy to provide people with the info.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #26
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I'd keep it and use it occasionally. It's got that glow.
ha ha
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #27
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my v3 was easy (after research) to remove a few elements and lube (and clean glass), i did mine, is v1 diff. to do this?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #28
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A bit cruel joke - it is now a "soft focus lens" (it has its applications). All you need to do is to change the name from Summicron to Softicron and sell it to appropriate crowd for a premium.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #29
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I've been trying to think of creative ways to use the lens in it's current state since I don't have any others to use with it. I'm thinking that it may be pretty cool with maybe P3200 at night in some way. Until I can get it fixed of course. From the test roll, the images are sharp, but very glowwy.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #30
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Send the lens to DAG first. It is worth it. My Summicron does not seem to have haze issues. Congrats on this purchase.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #31
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I emailed DAG with a good amount of pictures of the lens and got a reply back that he would not be able to do anything to the lens as the haze/scratches are permanent.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #32
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Just sell It as-is, and order a chinese replica. My 2 cents
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #33
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I emailed DAG with a good amount of pictures of the lens and got a reply back that he would not be able to do anything to the lens as the haze/scratches are permanent.
I would then sell the lens AS IS.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #34
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might get a few hundred for it
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #35
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Hello everyone,

I wanted to update this post with the decisions and results I've made and got. I decided to go with my good friend who introduced me to the retired gentleman to have him look at my lens to see if he could recoat it, and to get his opinion on the glass itself. He was very shocked with how I acquired the lens and said he could recoat it for me no problem.

He showed me the equipment he uses which literally looks like some sort of space gizmo, very cool! He explained the steps and what happens during this process of taking extremely precise measurements to see if the glass is the correct measurement on both sides of each element. He continued to explain that if someone attempts to polish a element by hand and not using a machine, that they can make the surface of the glass uneven which adds more work for him. He also mentioned that he uses a machine which measures the depth of a scratch to know how much he must polish. Needless to say he went on with a ton more very interesting steps to which I was very fascinated with how complex this process is.

My friend asked him if there are possibilities that the glass can break as the 'space gizmo' heats up the glass to I think he said 350 degrees or more (can't remember). He said yes, but its very rare as he heats up the glass very slowly in order to avoid this from happening. This process of heating up the glass is for applying the coating to the elements. Once the glass heats up to a certain temperature the space gizmo then disolves the coating and it basically rains or sprinkles on to the element. There's also a vacuum chamber involved somewhere in this process, but I forgot where. Anyways, onto the results!








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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #36
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Needless to say that I was completely blown away by the results after he was done with it and couldn't believe my eyes really and double checked my serial number to make sure it matched what I gave him hehe. Also for everyone that asked me for his info, I did mention this to him and asked him if he was comfortable with me giving his info out to people who may need work. He said that he typically only works for collectors for Leica related gear. He joked around and said he will not work on cheaper lens or gear as the work he would do would likely cost more than the lenses worth itself. Which made complete sense to me as I was shown the extremely precise process that is done to recoat a lens. He is a very kind man and loves what he does. As I want to be respectful to his time I have his info for people interested, note that I will not be giving his info out to a ton of people because I wouldn't want his phone exploding.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #37
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Thats extremely impressive! There are lenses I would've kept had I know results like this were still possible.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #38
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Amazing...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #39
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Brilliant results all round!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #40
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What an amazing story. You were very lucky twice, finding this gem in the first place for the great price you paid and then finding this gentleman who offers these extremely rare and sought after services. Well done, enjoy this amazing lens. Never sell it.
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