Old 03-03-2018   #121
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I'm one of the ones that did ultimately switch from an M240 to an M10. Image-quality wise I think in daylight I didn't really gain much if anything (being perfectly honest) but I do definitely see improvement in low light situations, say from 3200+. I had no complaints really about the M240 image quality, I was used to the ergonomics and I loved the seemingly limitless battery life. I would have been just fine to keep the camera, but in a semi-impulsive move last year I decided I wanted to consolidate. I wanted 1 digital body, 1 film body and the best 35mm lens I could get my hands on.

My grand plan didn't last as I eventually re-purchased two of the lenses I sold off in haste and a second film body lol, but the experience of buying a brand new M10 was a first for me and I don't regret it. I have been greatly enjoying the camera despite KNOWING that it was primarily a haptic change and less of an image quality one. I fully expect to keep and use this camera for my digital work for the next several years, barring any radical changes to upcoming digital camera tech, this does everything that I personally need in a digital body.

I fully understand that I will take the massive depreciation hit, but it will sting less in that by the time I am ready to sell the camera I will have definitely gotten my use out of it.

Would I do the swap again? Possibly, but now having experienced both I would be just fine keeping an M240 era camera for a while longer in all honesty.

Dood, you go thru camera gear the way I go thru film!
6 months from now you'll have sold the M10, as depreciation would not have fully hit (you'll only lose a few hundred) and you'll be back to an M with an extra $3K in your pocket for lenses, new stuff, a trip..

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Old 03-03-2018   #122
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Dood, you go thru camera gear the way I go thru film!
6 months from now you'll have sold the M10, as depreciation would not have fully hit (you'll only lose a few hundred) and you'll be back to an M with an extra $3K in your pocket for lenses, new stuff, a trip..

Huss. I know. I'm the worst. Last year was particularly bad for me photography-wise as I was in this weird state of creative flux and didn't know what direction to go in (despite it being a truly wonderful year outside of photography). Rather than buy more gear I went and sold basically everything and started over. Which was refreshing, but also possibly not the right move. My plan is to keep the M10 for a long while. I have the lenses I want, I don't really need more (though a 21 SEM would be nice) and my wife & I are saving up for a trip later this year.

The thought has crossed my mind to just go back to the M240, but I feel somehow more attached to this M10 since I'm the first owner (I've never really been the first owner of anything before).
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Old 03-03-2018   #123
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The thought has crossed my mind to just go back to the M240, but I feel somehow more attached to this M10 since I'm the first owner (I've never really been the first owner of anything before).
That first owner thing wears off real quick.. the moment you buy a camera it is used, so much better to buy a great shape used one for 50% off. I learned that lesson when I bought my M-E new, and later my M240 used.
The sooner you sell the M10, the less money you lose. Right now you'd have pretty much paid a small rental fee for it. M240s can be had for under $3K, and as we both know, you can't tell the difference in the images. There also seems to be an issue with the ISO dial on the M10.
For those who say the ISO is much better on the M10 over 3200, I gotta be honest and say how many great shots have been taken at high ISOs? If they are night sky scenes, the Japanese camera's sensors do much much better. Same for dim bar scenes. Think about all the great shots you've seen. Guess what ISOs those have been taken at? Crappy light is crappy light. Having a camera that can shoot at ISO 12,800 etc does not make for a good shot.
My DSLR is a D850. I have not used it over ISO 400.

I really feel that those who claim a technical advantage with the M10 are grasping at straws. I do not see it in actual shots even though it may be there. Perhaps because I do not need crazy high ISOs. For those that do - show actual shots, not test shots, but real images. A snap of a soda can in a dark room to prove a point does the opposite...
What I do see is much worse battery life and a much higher price.
And I also see a nicer body shape. That I think is the difference.

p.s. re the first owner thing, I don't think that matters anymore with digital cameras. Because they are not life time buys. In a decade or less, they will be obsolete and maybe unrepairable. New first owner means much more if you buy a mechanical film camera that will stand the test of time as there are no electronics to go belly up. Like an M-A (which I think you have).
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Old 03-03-2018   #124
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M3, M6, M8, M9 ....all bought used in great shape.
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Old 03-04-2018   #125
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M3, M6, M8, M9 ....all bought used in great shape.
Raid, time to go for something new like an M...

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Old 03-04-2018   #126
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You will have the opportunity to repeat this suggestion to me when we meet and my wife is present! Let's see what she will say then. You never know!
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Old 03-04-2018   #127
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Hi,

Reading all the posts I'm starting to wonder if "upgrade" is the correct word...

OTOH, it's your money, life etc so pay no attention to my 2d worth.

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Old 03-04-2018   #128
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David: It is about getting a new toy that happens to be very expensive and that also happens to be a very good digital camera. I am not ready for such a new toy. Never had one. I get used toys.
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Old 03-04-2018   #129
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David: It is about getting a new toy that happens to be very expensive and that also happens to be a very good digital camera. I am not ready for such a new toy. Never had one. I get used toys.
Apologies if it looked aimed at you, Raid. I'm in your club when it comes to buying cameras: I have to be...

And it's a lot more fun; it satisfies my hunter instinct.

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Old 03-05-2018   #130
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For those who say the ISO is much better on the M10 over 3200, I gotta be honest and say how many great shots have been taken at high ISOs? If they are night sky scenes, the Japanese camera's sensors do much much better. Same for dim bar scenes. Think about all the great shots you've seen. Guess what ISOs those have been taken at? Crappy light is crappy light. Having a camera that can shoot at ISO 12,800 etc does not make for a good shot.
My DSLR is a D850. I have not used it over ISO 400.
Sounds like you are trying to "teach" people on here photography, just an FYI.

If there is one area I want improvement on in a digital M it is giving me as clean and as high an ISO as possible. I take a lot of low light photos for my living and not because it is crappy light but rather spectacular light with incredible tonal and color nuance. The lower the light gets, the more everything becomes a light source. I am not taking live music either, that is really bright non-daylight.

I use my D850 anywhere from ISO 64 up to 6,400 without hesitation. I use the M10 from ISO 200 to 10,000 also without hesitation, it is truly excellent there. But if the M11 gains two stops of high ISO range then I will upgrade but as it stands right now, there is not much I can not do with an M10 and 35mm 1.4 FLE.

The M10 is also faster and smoother in operation than the 240 and in my hand, no contest, it feels "right" for an M body.

I agree with you on the night sky stuff due to Leica capping the long exposure times to be near useless for this kind of work, but everything else, no, I dont agree at all. By the way, I find the battery life to be an non-issue, even in very cold weather. Sure it is not as good as the M240 but that was kind of overkill anyway and the M10 batteries actually are ok to carry in a pocket.
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Old 03-05-2018   #131
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That first owner thing wears off real quick.. the moment you buy a camera it is used, so much better to buy a great shape used one for 50% off. I learned that lesson when I bought my M-E new, and later my M240 used.
The sooner you sell the M10, the less money you lose. Right now you'd have pretty much paid a small rental fee for it. M240s can be had for under $3K, and as we both know, you can't tell the difference in the images. There also seems to be an issue with the ISO dial on the M10.
For those who say the ISO is much better on the M10 over 3200, I gotta be honest and say how many great shots have been taken at high ISOs? If they are night sky scenes, the Japanese camera's sensors do much much better. Same for dim bar scenes. Think about all the great shots you've seen. Guess what ISOs those have been taken at? Crappy light is crappy light. Having a camera that can shoot at ISO 12,800 etc does not make for a good shot.
My DSLR is a D850. I have not used it over ISO 400.

I really feel that those who claim a technical advantage with the M10 are grasping at straws. I do not see it in actual shots even though it may be there. Perhaps because I do not need crazy high ISOs. For those that do - show actual shots, not test shots, but real images. A snap of a soda can in a dark room to prove a point does the opposite...
What I do see is much worse battery life and a much higher price.
And I also see a nicer body shape. That I think is the difference.

p.s. re the first owner thing, I don't think that matters anymore with digital cameras. Because they are not life time buys. In a decade or less, they will be obsolete and maybe unrepairable. New first owner means much more if you buy a mechanical film camera that will stand the test of time as there are no electronics to go belly up. Like an M-A (which I think you have).
Low light does not = crappy light no more than bright light = good light.. Sometimes low light is just low but the quality of that light can be beautiful and I shoot about 60% of my pro stuff at 1600-10,000 ISO with the M 10.
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Old 03-05-2018   #132
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Upgrade to the M 10?
Old 01-09-2020   #133
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Upgrade to the M 10?

New to this forum. I'm sure there has to be a thread about this but I couldn't find it:

I have an MP 240 but I'm tempted to upgrade to the MP 10. Two reasons: better high-ISO capability and a less clunky user interface. I like the thinner form factor but that would just be a bonus.

I do all kinds of photography but would like to have better results with night photography and indoor available-light shooting.

I'd love to hear from users on the pros and cons of upgrading to the MP 10?

Thanks.
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Old 01-09-2020   #134
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https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=166873
https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=164322
and this
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Old 01-09-2020   #135
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I could not be happier with the M10. But when that SL2 sensor lands in an M body I will jump and likely be done. I came from M9 tho, and have never shot with a 240.

The handling is nearly exactly like my old M7 if not better, interface is nice and simple (tho while apparently complaining about menus is a sign of weakness/general stupidity now, I still appreciate a camera I can use without needing to consult a manual because I’ve picked it up and pressed some button which has turned on some feature I don’t understand the need for that prevents me from shooting a picture *fuji*). Files are lovely too.
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Old 01-09-2020   #136
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Thanks for the links. Knew they had to be here somewhere!
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Old 01-09-2020   #137
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But when that SL2 sensor lands in an M body I will jump and likely be done.
Be done. A man can dream.
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Old 01-09-2020   #138
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I am waiting for an M10 with the new sensor.
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Old 02-25-2020   #139
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I traded in all of my film gear, along with a few Voigtlander lenses, and my M8 and M9-P on a used M10 from KEH. (I also got a pair of PanaLeica M4/3 lenses for my Olympus pair). I love it.


Went for a drive on Saturday and found an abandoned farmhouse. Good thing I had my camera with me.


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Abandoned Farmhouse, February 22. 2020 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
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Old 02-25-2020   #140
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Looks like a nice fixer upper.
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Old 02-25-2020   #141
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M10 is super camera for cats indoors!
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Old 02-25-2020   #142
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I traded in all of my film gear, along with a few Voigtlander lenses, and my M8 and M9-P on a used M10 from KEH. (I also got a pair of PanaLeica M4/3 lenses for my Olympus pair). I love it.
Gonna take a page out of MaggieO's playbook
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Old 02-26-2020   #143
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Gonna take a page out of MaggieO's playbook

Oh, and they sent me a check for $80.00, too!
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Old 02-26-2020   #144
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Congrats maggieo!!!
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Old 02-26-2020   #145
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Crappy light is crappy light. Having a camera that can shoot at ISO 12,800 etc does not make for a good shot.

There is a big difference between crappy light and low light. And I shoot on the streets all the time at high ISOs because fast shutter speeds and large DoF is a gift for that kind of work.
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Old 02-26-2020   #146
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Oh, and they sent me a check for $80.00, too!
That must have felt really good! What did you end up keeping to pair with the M10?
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Old 02-26-2020   #147
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If there is one area I want improvement on in a digital M it is giving me as clean and as high an ISO as possible. I take a lot of low light photos for my living and not because it is crappy light but rather spectacular light with incredible tonal and color nuance. The lower the light gets, the more everything becomes a light source. I am not taking live music either, that is really bright non-daylight.

I use my D850 anywhere from ISO 64 up to 6,400 without hesitation. I use the M10 from ISO 200 to 10,000 also without hesitation, it is truly excellent there. But if the M11 gains two stops of high ISO range then I will upgrade but as it stands right now, there is not much I can not do with an M10 and 35mm 1.4 FLE.

The M10 is also faster and smoother in operation than the 240 and in my hand, no contest, it feels "right" for an M body.
Totally agree!
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Old 02-27-2020   #148
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That must have felt really good! What did you end up keeping to pair with the M10?
Let's see...

Lenses:
Zeiss C-Biogon 35/3.8
Zeiss C Sonnar 50/1.5
1959 Leica Summilux 50/1.4
1952 Leica Summaron 35/3.5
Leitz Canada Tele-Summarit 90/2.8
Voigtlander Nokton Classic MC 35/1.4
Voigtlander LTM Ultron 28/2
Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50/2
Jupiter-8 50/2
Voigtander ASPH Ultron 50/1.5
Olympus 17/1.8
Olympus 45/1.8
Olympus 12/2.0
Panaleica Summilux 25/1.4

Cameras:
Fujifilm X20
Hasselblad Stellar (Really Sony PnS)
Ricoh GRII
Olympus Pen-F
Olympus OM-D E-M5mkII

Canon Canonette QL17 G-III (It doesn't work, but it was my first 35mm camera, so it stayed.)
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Old 02-27-2020   #149
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Let's see...

Lenses:
Zeiss C-Biogon 35/3.8
Zeiss C Sonnar 50/1.5
1959 Leica Summilux 50/1.4
1952 Leica Summaron 35/3.5
Leitz Canada Tele-Summarit 90/2.8
Voigtlander Nokton Classic MC 35/1.4
Voigtlander LTM Ultron 28/2
Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50/2
Jupiter-8 50/2
Voigtander ASPH Ultron 50/1.5
Olympus 17/1.8
Olympus 45/1.8
Olympus 12/2.0
Panaleica Summilux 25/1.4

Cameras:
Fujifilm X20
Hasselblad Stellar (Really Sony PnS)
Ricoh GRII
Olympus Pen-F
Olympus OM-D E-M5mkII

Canon Canonette QL17 G-III (It doesn't work, but it was my first 35mm camera, so it stayed.)
If you ever needed another M10, I think you're good
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Old 02-28-2020   #150
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If you ever needed another M10, I think you're good

I reckon I might!
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #151
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Way to go Maggie, Congrats on the M10

Always Love what You do with Miss 35 C Biogon on any ‘M’
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #152
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I am waiting for an M10 with the new sensor.
I don't want a camera with more than 28 Mpix, which is the sweet spot for me. Just makes files sizes too large and with 40+ Mpix, you automatically start cheating and become lazy by cropping the hell out of photos.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #153
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Way to go Maggie, Congrats on the M10

Always Love what You do with Miss 35 C Biogon on any ‘M’

Thanks, Helen!
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #154
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Way to go Maggie, Congrats on the M10

Always Love what You do with Miss 35 C Biogon on any ‘M’
What Helen said!
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #155
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Why upgrade to the M10 when it has only minor improvements over the M typ 240? Might as well also ask, "Why do people trade in a three year old, $40,000 automobile with 28,000 miles on it, in perfect condition, for a new one of almost identical specification?"

Answers: Because they want to, because they feel it has perceived value, and because it might have some minor details that they like more.

Next question?

The Leica SL (and SL2) are significantly different, more modern, camera concepts than the Leica M, and present advantages that are significant and easily recognized, if one wants/needs/is motivated by them. Why one might pick one of these over the other is a matter of personal preference and, perhaps, what sort of things one wants to do with their camera.

There's nothing wrong with any of these cameras. Use whichever one satisfies you and enables you to make the photographs you want.

G
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #156
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I don't want a camera with more than 28 Mpix, which is the sweet spot for me. Just makes files sizes too large and with 40+ Mpix, you automatically start cheating and become lazy by cropping the hell out of photos.
Wait... are you saying the M10 still doesn’t have S, M and L .dng files size selection? Any professional or advanced amateur DSLR has it.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #157
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I don't want a camera with more than 28 Mpix, which is the sweet spot for me. Just makes files sizes too large and with 40+ Mpix, you automatically start cheating and become lazy by cropping the hell out of photos.
There is no rule about cropping .
It`s a choice .
Sometimes you just can`t get close enough .
Back in the day newsrooms insisted on medium format so that they could crop for the paper without loss of clarity.
With todays high MP cameras that requirement to shoot MF is no longer necessary.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #158
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M10...new car smell...
M240..old musty car seats..
You decide...lol..

Funny how this 2017 thread has come alive again!
Used M10s - old and musty now - can be bought for just over $4K. About a $3K saving over currently available new.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #159
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What Helen said!
Thanks, taffy!

Getting the beastie into my hands has reinvigorated my shooting.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #160
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Wait... are you saying the M10 still doesn’t have S, M and L .dng files size selection? Any professional or advanced amateur DSLR has it.
I do not think many people, other than you, willingly choose to use less resolution than the maximum a camera offers. Storage is cheap compared to buying an $8000 camera to use at a low resolution.
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