Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica Q / CL/ T / X Series

Leica Q / CL/ T / X Series For the Leica Q, CL, T, X series digital cameras

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 10-15-2014   #41
telenous
Registered User
 
telenous is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,581
Looking at this with interest, Leica has pulled off a nice little package methinks. Shooting with an external viewfinder is OK as far as I am concerned, reminds me of shooting with the Summicron-C 40 and an M2.

Godfrey, kknox (or anyone else who uses the camera) have you tried the camera in low light? How is the af in less than ideal circumstances? Any idea which EV is the cutoff point for reliable focusing?

.
__________________
- Alkis

flickr
instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-15-2014   #42
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by telenous View Post
Looking at this with interest, Leica has pulled off a nice little package methinks. Shooting with an external viewfinder is OK as far as I am concerned, reminds me of shooting with the Summicron-C 40 and an M2.

Godfrey, kknox (or anyone else who uses the camera) have you tried the camera in low light? How is the af in less than ideal circumstances? Any idea which EV is the cutoff point for reliable focusing?
The AF system seems to do well down to pretty dim circumstances (say ISO 3200 @ wide open @ 1/15 sec as a guesstimate); I haven't noticed much in way of issues. But it's so easy to focus manually anyway: just twist the focusing ring and set the focus with magnification assist.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-15-2014   #43
kknox
Registered User
 
kknox is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 978
Just took it out of the box. Need to spend some time with it over the weekend. From what I have seen in the sample photos on the web, & here it should be just fine.
__________________
K.Knox
Just some old cameras.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-15-2014   #44
telenous
Registered User
 
telenous is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,581
Thanks both, appreciate your replies.
__________________
- Alkis

flickr
instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-15-2014   #45
Archiver
Registered User
 
Archiver is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,540
When the X113 arrives in Australia, it will be about $2700, according to my local pusher, er, camera dealer. The Sony RX1 is now selling for about $2500, so if I had to make a choice, I'd be rather torn between what I know would be the excellent handling and ergonomics of the 113 vs the full frame capabilities of the RX1.

The X113 is practically Leica's answer to the Fuji X100, albeit minus an internal viewfinder of any kind. As I already have a X100, which I'm guessing uses the same Sony 16mp sensor as the 113, I'm wondering whether the differences in handling, the bit of extra speed, and differences in lens rendering would be worth it. Hmm...
__________________
~Loving Every Image Captured Always~
Archiver on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #46
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
When the X113 arrives in Australia, it will be about $2700, according to my local pusher, er, camera dealer. The Sony RX1 is now selling for about $2500, so if I had to make a choice, I'd be rather torn between what I know would be the excellent handling and ergonomics of the 113 vs the full frame capabilities of the RX1.

The X113 is practically Leica's answer to the Fuji X100, albeit minus an internal viewfinder of any kind. As I already have a X100, which I'm guessing uses the same Sony 16mp sensor as the 113, I'm wondering whether the differences in handling, the bit of extra speed, and differences in lens rendering would be worth it. Hmm...
It is an interesting three-way decision point.

I disregard the question of price differences since, indeed, you already have the X100 and the capabilities of all three cameras are so close that if price were a real discriminator you would rationally immediately ignore purchasing anything else in this camera type. (Same thing held for me as I already had the Leica X2 ... Why was I interested in the X when the X2 is already very similar to the same thing? Certainly not because of the cost of acquisition or some huge difference in capabilities... :-)

Between the X and the RX1 is a matter of which camera's ergonomics suits you best and which lens' rendering you like more, IMO. The fact that one is full frame and the other is APS-C is not too big a deal since these are fixed lens cameras. Yes, the DoF curve will be a bit different—with the RX1 @6' focus distance and f/2, you'll net about 1.1' depth of field vs with the X @6' focus distance and f/2, you'll net about 1.9' depth of field—and I expect the RX1's larger sensor will deliver another stop or so of sensitivity, but in the grand scheme these are relatively small differences, to me anyway. The RX1 has more features than the X, and the X body is larger and simpler to use; these differences mean that the X is easier to manage comfortably for what I wanted a camera of this type for.

The Fuji X100 sensor may be the same base family design, but it's quite different in use and especially during raw processing due to the differences in the color filter matrix. I'm on record as simply not being much of a fan of the Fuji sensors from an image processing standpoint, regardless of differences in ergonomics and menu design. The built-in optical viewfinder+EVF of the Fuji is a plus, but like the difference in format between Sony and Leica above it seems not that huge an issue to me: I simply fit the viewfinder of my choice (either EVF or OVF) and forget about it.

So ... Handle them both, test them both by taking a few snaps with them at the store and taking those home to play with in your favorite image processing software, and then buy whichever one pleases you most, if you buy either at all. It's all good.

Ach, there I go nattering on about equipment again. It's a habit. Back to photos...

G


Leica X :: ISO 100 @ f/1.7 @ 1/400 second
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #47
rbelyell
Registered User
 
rbelyell is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,340
had an x100, was easily the most 'simple' camera to operate ergonomically as major functions are controlled manually without resort to lcd. it has a fabulous lens and the outstanding results are well documented. everyones different, but for me $2000 is a bit much extra to pay for an extra 1/2 stop in a bundle that is not distinguishable in physical operation. i guess it in part depends on how much 'feel' is worth to you, or if in fact everyone has the same 'feel' reaction. for me, it aint worth 2 grand. for others it seems to be. thats what makes a horserace, no?

as for the rx1, nope it doesnt have a dedicated SS dial, so that particular level of 'simplicity' is lacking. again for me, i take the time to set up a camera the way i want, and as long as they have a physical aperture on the lens and an exposure comp dial, i'm pretty good to go on the 'simplicity' front. the fact that a tool has a large feature set does not require one to pay the least bit of attention to those they dont need, and i dont and virtually never find them 'getting in my way'. the shutter is responsive and dead silent. the rx1 is solid, well built and has a world class zeiss lens. oh yeah, and its FF, which means for DOF purposes youd need a 1.4 23mm lens on apsc to equal it. and i got mine, with a RRS grip, evf and hood for $2000.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #48
pharyngula
Registered User
 
pharyngula's Avatar
 
pharyngula is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 65
I agree very much with your points about the RX1 - I'm just a little distressed that I paid a few hundred more for my comparably equipped used RX1r a couple weeks ago...!



The RRS grip and EVF really make it work for me. I'd be less enthusiastic about the camera without the improved ergonomics.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #49
rbelyell
Registered User
 
rbelyell is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharyngula View Post
I agree very much with your points about the RX1 - I'm just a little distressed that I paid a few hundred more for my comparably equipped used RX1r a couple weeks ago...!



The RRS grip and EVF really make it work for me. I'd be less enthusiastic about the camera without the improved ergonomics.
well the (R) is just alot more expensive than the non (R), new or used. what i do just didnt merit the extra resolution or the extra $.

and yes, i totally agree on the dramatic ergonomic improvement both the RRS grip and evf make. the evf is a necessity, imo, and its a great one. the grip takes rhe whole experience to another level.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #50
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelyell View Post
i totally agree on the dramatic ergonomic improvement both the RRS grip and evf make. the evf is a necessity, imo, and its a great one.
I have the EVF for my RX1R, but only use it sometimes. For me, it improves the shooting experience especially in a shooting-intense setting where you move only a little. Studio is a pretty good example. Overall, it however makes the camera clumsier and more inconvenient to handle while on the move or for example working out of a bag. Every detachable EVF camera is pretty much the same. This is not a good trait in a serious compact camera. It's a bit of a paradox, but such is life.
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #51
rbelyell
Registered User
 
rbelyell is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,340
like most things, the merits of detachable evf,s are subjective. i love them because theyre articulating. for me waist level shooting ability is a great help both in bright sun and for discreet street shooting. there are many many candid shots i'd have never gotten but for the articulating finder. on the other hand, having used them on the rx1, the gxr m module and the oly ep series, ive never found them ungainly or 'in the way'. just part of the tool that i find i can make great use of.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #52
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post

Quote:
GDG: I'm on record as simply not being much of a fan of the Fuji sensors from an image processing standpoint, regardless of differences in ergonomics and menu design.
I'm veering off topic, but I'm always surprised to hear you say that, given what seems to be your interest in a more natural and organic aesthetic. I've got a couple X-Trans cameras. I don't shoot much color, but for sure they have the least digital B&W rendering of any camera I've owned. Really quite a relief from the perfect, computerized look of the Sonys and other digital camera systems I've experienced.
After three-four stabs at trying these cameras, I've given up. I find the Fuji XTrans sensor raw data to be very fussy to work with while providing little real advantage over Bayer mosaic sensor data. The Xtrans sensor design is an attempt to provide an alternative to noise and moiré patterns, which with expert attention it achieves, but it is weak on providing adequate color information for RGB channel extraction and sharpening, and the processing techniques to achieve it are tricky.

The Xtrans sensor data requires different base settings compared to any other sensor data I've worked with and has inflection points when making adjustments where the response curve goes non-linear well within the usual range of linear response. Sharpening requires entirely different and mostly non-intuitive techniques to implement well. in color, mushy greens and green-red bleeding are common, and happen far too easily.

I don't see any "perfect, computerized look" in my Sony/Panasonic/Kodak Bayer mosaic sensor work unless I've messed up the image processing (usually by oversharpening or dialing in too much local contrast through poorly-judged used of tone curve tools; or in monochrome work by applying the wrong HSV curve in the mixing). The current Bayer mosaic sensor data from both Sony and Panasonic sensors are amazing in the linearity of their response to gamma correction and chroma interpolation, and take less processing power to do it as well since the cell size is smaller than XTrans sensor data. I can seemingly dial in exactly the rendering I want over a broad range using simple adjustments; they respond linearly and without funny inflection points in the middle of an adjustment range.

I do understand that many people quite like the Fuji cameras and are happy to work with them. I just find image processing for them a bit of a pain, the advantages somewhat limited, and don't really like the specific ergonomics of the cameras and menus all that much. My hands can retrain to use their controls and the menus I would be able to get used to with sufficient motivation, but the image processing issues vs the advantages they bring are the bottom line. I haven't seen anything, even in the latest software, that gets around the weird nonlinearity issues.

Sorry for the digression.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #53
Archiver
Registered User
 
Archiver is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,540
The Fuji X100 was the last Fuji to use a standard 16mp CMOS sensor, before they went X-Trans on their camera line. Many say that they prefer the colours and look of the X100 to the X100s and other X-Trans cameras like the X-Pro 1. No matter how much I fiddle with X-Trans raws in Lightroom, I can't get the them way I like, finding that green foliage looks mushy, particularly.

I suspect (hope?) that the X113 will have the sensor advantages of the X100 while adding those very nice Leica film body ergonomics and a lens with great rendering. Then again, as Godfrey said, if this was just about price I'd stick with the X100 that I already have and not bother with even thinking about a X113 or Sony RX1.

The original question in the thread was 'would you buy a 113?' My answer is that it would definitely be on the 'I want this' list.
__________________
~Loving Every Image Captured Always~
Archiver on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-16-2014   #54
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelyell View Post
like most things, the merits of detachable evf,s are subjective. i love them because theyre articulating. for me waist level shooting ability is a great help both in bright sun and for discreet street shooting.
Note that inclusion of an EVF does not preclude incorporating an articulating screen/EVF or the use of a secondary articulating EVF. The serious compacts are often very much system cameras although the lens is fixed.
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-17-2014   #55
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
The Fuji X100 was the last Fuji to use a standard 16mp CMOS sensor, before they went X-Trans on their camera line. Many say that they prefer the colours and look of the X100 to the X100s and other X-Trans cameras like the X-Pro 1.
How about the X-A1?
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-17-2014   #56
Archiver
Registered User
 
Archiver is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
How about the X-A1?
Ah yes, that's true. But it's the only standard CMOS camera in the X lineup, and it's the entry level model. Everything else has gone X-Trans.
__________________
~Loving Every Image Captured Always~
Archiver on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-18-2014   #57
helenhill
mod chasing light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 5,806
Debating over which digi will keep me motivated in keeping and using

What I want: somewhat compact though not to small, a fixed camera Lens hence no dust sensor issues, simple menu, price range no more than $2500.00

You'll probably think I've gone somewhat Mad but I Narrowed it down to 2 leica cameras
Mainly due to the tres Simple basic menu/ergonomics and the rendering of the Elmar / Summilux glass

X vario...poor x vario got smashingly Bad reviews for its peculiar size and slooow lens
Tried it at at B&H for a few minutes and strangely enough LOVED it, felt good in the hands, crazy but was smitten by a zoom lens...mind you never used a zoom before...much prefer the elmar lens to the elmarit, sharper, crisper edgier 'look'
can find this camera now used, with 1 yr warranty from 1500-1800.00

X113 just because its a summilux, yummy good !
Heavier , bigger than the X1/X2
My only concern is some of the photos I have seen on the web seem at times blurry /soft

My heart says a Lux , my 'eye' & mind say the vario.... Go figure
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-18-2014   #58
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 71
Posts: 6,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill_HH View Post
Debating over which digi will keep me motivated in keeping and using

... Go figure
I know this situation, if I had not already an x1 (or if money would not be a problem) between the two you mention I would have no doubt and go for the 113, even if sometimes I miss a longer focal length...

robert
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-18-2014   #59
Mcary
Registered User
 
Mcary is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia USA
Age: 58
Posts: 1,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill_HH View Post
Debating over which digi will keep me motivated in keeping and using

What I want: somewhat compact though not to small, a fixed camera Lens hence no dust sensor issues, simple menu, price range no more than $2500.00

You'll probably think I've gone somewhat Mad but I Narrowed it down to 2 leica cameras
Mainly due to the tres Simple basic menu/ergonomics and the rendering of the Elmar / Summilux glass

X vario...poor x vario got smashingly Bad reviews for its peculiar size and slooow lens
Tried it at at B&H for a few minutes and strangely enough LOVED it, felt good in the hands, crazy but was smitten by a zoom lens...mind you never used a zoom before...much prefer the elmar lens to the elmarit, sharper, crisper edgier 'look'
can find this camera now used, with 1 yr warranty from 1500-1800.00

X113 just because its a summilux, yummy good !
Heavier , bigger than the X1/X2
My only concern is some of the photos I have seen on the web seem at times blurry /soft

My heart says a Lux , my 'eye' & mind say the vario.... Go figure
X Vario $1495 with 1 year Leica Pre-owned Warrenty
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-X-Vari...item2342d80de7

Demo $1695 Leica Store SF 1 year Leica Warrenty
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-X-Vari...item27ecc6966a
__________________
M. Cary
Trying to see something new whither I'm visiting someplace new or a place that I've visited many a time before.


  Reply With Quote

Old 10-18-2014   #60
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill_HH View Post
Debating over which digi will keep me motivated in keeping and using

What I want: somewhat compact though not to small, a fixed camera Lens hence no dust sensor issues, simple menu, price range no more than $2500.00

You'll probably think I've gone somewhat Mad but I Narrowed it down to 2 leica cameras
Mainly due to the tres Simple basic menu/ergonomics and the rendering of the Elmar / Summilux glass

X vario...poor x vario got smashingly Bad reviews for its peculiar size and slooow lens
Tried it at at B&H for a few minutes and strangely enough LOVED it, felt good in the hands, crazy but was smitten by a zoom lens...mind you never used a zoom before...much prefer the elmar lens to the elmarit, sharper, crisper edgier 'look'
can find this camera now used, with 1 yr warranty from 1500-1800.00

X113 just because its a summilux, yummy good !
Heavier , bigger than the X1/X2
My only concern is some of the photos I have seen on the web seem at times blurry /soft

My heart says a Lux , my 'eye' & mind say the vario.... Go figure
Hi Helen,

The bad reviews on the X Vario were all by people who simply expected/wanted the impossible: a zoom lens that was Leica quality AND smaller AND faster simultaneously. Leica concentrated on quality and small. Making it fast wasn't feasible at the same time. The photos I've seen out of the X Vario are terrific, which is what matters to me. :-)

The 'Lux is not soft at all. These were taken with lens openings from f/1.7 to f/11 and nearly all using AF: https://flic.kr/s/aHsk5hbase
Only one of them is a trifle soft (#258) and that was unfortunately camera movement... 8^\

And these two at f/1.7 certainly are super sharp in the focus plane:
https://flic.kr/p/pFtUxW
https://flic.kr/p/ppAKAY

But between the two, which suits you best is all that matters. And it circles entirely around whether you want the zoom or the prime. I've been tempted to have both, but I think that (for me) the right complement to the X typ 113 would actually be the V-Lux typ 114—if I didn't already have WAY too many cameras that work fine as a complement anyway.

But I have to say, I'm completely smitten with the X. For me, it is just right. :-)

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-18-2014   #61
kknox
Registered User
 
kknox is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 978
Godfrey, did you order any of the accessories for the X113, half case or eveready also?
I picked up a sbloo leica 3.5cm viewfinder for those quick auto focus shots. I can just do the framing, and listen for the autofocus beep. From the 1950's looks good on the camera.
__________________
K.Knox
Just some old cameras.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-18-2014   #62
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by kknox View Post
Godfrey, did you order any of the accessories for the X113, half case or eveready also?
I picked up a sbloo leica 3.5cm viewfinder for those quick auto focus shots. I can just do the framing, and listen for the autofocus beep. From the 1950's looks good on the camera.
I bought the camera with the Visoflex Type 020 EVF. I already had a Voigtländer 35mm OVF (which is normally fitted to my X2). I also fitted one of my Street Straps.

I've since then ordered an Arte di Mano half-case, a spare battery, and the Leica X1 Brightline 35mm Viewfinder #18707. I want to keep the Voigtländer finder on the X2, and the Leica finder has more eye relief (better for use with my glasses).

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #63
talkingtrash
Registered User
 
talkingtrash is offline
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post

I bought the camera with the Visoflex Type 020 EVF. I already had a Voigtländer 35mm OVF (which is normally fitted to my X2). I also fitted one of my Street Straps.

I've since then ordered an Arte di Mano half-case, a spare battery, and the Leica X1 Brightline 35mm Viewfinder #18707. I want to keep the Voigtländer finder on the X2, and the Leica finder has more eye relief (better for use with my glasses).

G
how about a handgrip? I think it looks really nice on a black x 113.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #64
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by talkingtrash View Post
how about a handgrip? I think it looks really nice on a black x 113.
The Arte di Mano half-case has the grip bump in it that I like, same as the Artisan & Artist case I have on the X2 and M9. This is the case on the X Vario:



G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #65
xenohip
Registered User
 
xenohip is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 69
Does the X-113 have an auto ISO in manual mode? You set aperture and shutter and camera chooses ISO for correct exposure? Does it provide access to the full range of ISO in this mode? This could make it close in operation to my little rollei 35.

For that matter, does the X1 or X2 have such a mode?
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #66
talkingtrash
Registered User
 
talkingtrash is offline
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenohip View Post
Does the X-113 have an auto ISO in manual mode? You set aperture and shutter and camera chooses ISO for correct exposure? Does it provide access to the full range of ISO in this mode? This could make it close in operation to my little rollei 35.

For that matter, does the X1 or X2 have such a mode?
I just tried it on my typ 113. Yes, you can use manual mode and auto ISO. The camera will automatically choose the correct exposure by adjusting ISO.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #67
kknox
Registered User
 
kknox is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 978
Beautiful case.
__________________
K.Knox
Just some old cameras.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #68
Archiver
Registered User
 
Archiver is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill_HH View Post

You'll probably think I've gone somewhat Mad but I Narrowed it down to 2 leica cameras
Mainly due to the tres Simple basic menu/ergonomics and the rendering of the Elmar / Summilux glass

X vario...poor x vario got smashingly Bad reviews for its peculiar size and slooow lens
Tried it at at B&H for a few minutes and strangely enough LOVED it, felt good in the hands, crazy but was smitten by a zoom lens...mind you never used a zoom before...much prefer the elmar lens to the elmarit, sharper, crisper edgier 'look'
can find this camera now used, with 1 yr warranty from 1500-1800.00

X113 just because its a summilux, yummy good !
Heavier , bigger than the X1/X2
My only concern is some of the photos I have seen on the web seem at times blurry /soft
Helen, your flickr stream suggests that while you shoot in broad daylight, you also do a fair bit in low and mixed lighting conditions. You also seem to like subject separation. Given that the X Vario and X 113 have the same body, you may be better off with the 113. Faster glass, more subject separation, and better able to shoot in low light conditions.

The X Vario is tempting as all heck as a concept and for ergonomics, but for me, I cannot see how much more I could do with the Vario than I can with (blasphemy) my Panasonic GM1 and the Pana 12-35mm f2.8 lens. A faster lens with constant aperture and more width at the short end of the zoom, too.

I'm not suggesting the GM1 to you as an alternative to the X Vario, as it has a lot of ergonomic limitations, but I can't see the Vario doing more for me than the GM1 + 12-35 can. But the X 113 is a different animal. The body feels like a film Leica and the lens is fast and very nice, from what I can see. The real difference is the slow zoom vs fast prime.
__________________
~Loving Every Image Captured Always~
Archiver on flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #69
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by talkingtrash View Post
I just tried it on my typ 113. Yes, you can use manual mode and auto ISO. The camera will automatically choose the correct exposure by adjusting ISO.
That's cool, I didn't realize it supported that mode of operation.

The X2 does not: when dials are flipped to put it in Manual exposure mode, it defaults to ISO 100 if it was set to Auto ISO.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-2014   #70
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by kknox View Post
Beautiful case.
:-) Can't wait for it to get here. Another week or two, I expect.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014   #71
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
I've posted a few new photos with the X typ 113:

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/s...96#post2405996

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014   #72
helenhill
mod chasing light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 5,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
I know this situation, if I had not already an x1 (or if money would not be a problem) between the two you mention I would have no doubt and go for the 113, even if sometimes I miss a longer focal length...robert
Me thinks sooo too , Thx!

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
Helen, did you look at the Sony RX1R? That would fit this mix, size, and price range. Not a Leica, but full frame, no AA, and f2.0 Zeiss lens would make it a contender for me.

I think a zoom lens, at least for the type of work you do, would be more trouble than it's worth. John
love Zeiss glass but the menu & handling may not be as simple and carefree...will have to go look, hold, try one
the x vario now off the list, how good could i do on the street with a zoooom has me have a change of heart
Thank You I will look into it


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcary View Post
X Vario $1495 with 1 year Leica Pre-owned Warrenty
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-X-Vari...item2342d80de7
Demo $1695 Leica Store SF 1 year Leica Warrenty
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-X-Vari...item27ecc6966a
hah, very nice of You to get the low down on Better prices, thx , xo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Hi Helen,

The bad reviews on the X Vario were all by people who simply expected/wanted the impossible: a zoom lens that was Leica quality AND smaller AND faster simultaneously. Leica concentrated on quality and small. Making it fast wasn't feasible at the same time. The photos I've seen out of the X Vario are terrific, which is what matters to me. :-)

The 'Lux is not soft at all. These were taken with lens openings from f/1.7 to f/11 and nearly all using AF: https://flic.kr/s/aHsk5hbase
Only one of them is a trifle soft (#258) and that was unfortunately camera movement... 8^\

And these two at f/1.7 certainly are super sharp in the focus plane:
https://flic.kr/p/pFtUxW
https://flic.kr/p/ppAKAY

But between the two, which suits you best is all that matters. And it circles entirely around whether you want the zoom or the prime. I've been tempted to have both, but I think that (for me) the right complement to the X typ 113 would actually be the V-Lux typ 114—if I didn't already have WAY too many cameras that work fine as a complement anyway.

But I have to say, I'm completely smitten with the X. For me, it is just right. :-)G
that tres alluring shot of Miss 113 made me Smile
x vario crossed off my list... Miss 113still a contender

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
Helen, your flickr stream suggests that while you shoot in broad daylight, you also do a fair bit in low and mixed lighting conditions. You also seem to like subject separation. Given that the X Vario and X 113 have the same body, you may be better off with the 113. Faster glass, more subject separation, and better able to shoot in low light conditions.

The X Vario is tempting as all heck as a concept and for ergonomics, but for me, I cannot see how much more I could do with the Vario than I can with (blasphemy) my Panasonic GM1 and the Pana 12-35mm f2.8 lens. A faster lens with constant aperture and more width at the short end of the zoom, too.

I'm not suggesting the GM1 to you as an alternative to the X Vario, as it has a lot of ergonomic limitations, but I can't see the Vario doing more for me than the GM1 + 12-35 can. But the X 113 is a different animal. The body feels like a film Leica and the lens is fast and very nice, from what I can see. The real difference is the slow zoom vs fast prime.
yes agreed, x vario off the list
may peek at Miss GM1 since i really am an uneducated dame re:digital cameras
in the past have fallen for the epson rd1, leica digiliux 2, ricohs grd' series, leica, X1, X2, merrills dp1&2 and thats all i know

Thank You for your thoughts !
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014   #73
helenhill
mod chasing light
 
helenhill's Avatar
 
helenhill is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 5,806
ok just looked at the new photos Godfrey, there's a lovely Moodiness
now don't be upset with me but something seems off (or maybe my moniter )

your photos seem fuzzy not quite spot on in focus and perhaps abit too much grain added

i really adored previous posted photos : the reading over coffee & tree circle
__________________
Flickr.

________________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014   #74
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill_HH View Post
ok just looked at the new photos Godfrey, there's a Lovely Moodiness
now don't be upset with me but something seems off (or maybe my moniter )

your photos seem fuzzy not quite spot on in focus and perhaps abit too much grain added

i really adored previous posted photos : the reading over coffee & tree circle
Intentionally 'off' focus, heavyweight grain, other crunchiness added—all part of the idea. As I said, I was "seeing differently" ... Basically, looking to see how far I can take things with a single lens-single camera notion. These have a look more similar to my pinhole work in the park.

How successful they are ... well, I'll see what others have to say. It will take me a month of looking at them to come to a decision. :-)

Just got a note from B&H: My spare battery and Leica optical finder are on the way. Just waiting for the case to ship now for the X kit to be complete.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014   #75
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
 
noisycheese is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Would you buy a Leica X 113?
I would be more inclined to put that $$$ toward the purchase of the M-P.
__________________
The Leica M passion: From the inside it's hard to explain; from the outside it's hard to understand.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014   #76
Peter_S
Registered User
 
Peter_S is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Narvik (Norway); Tbilisi (Georgia)
Posts: 749
without an AA-filter possibly....but like this I will stick to my X2.
__________________
Contax T3
Leica Monochrom + VL lenses
Sigma DP2 Merrill
--------------------------
www.ps-photo.net
On instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-20-2014   #77
kknox
Registered User
 
kknox is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 978
Some shots from the drive home tonight. All JPEG's straight from the camera. All shot in standard mode. Nothing special, just wanted to see how the X113 handles color. Have had the camera over a week, no chance to use it.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/285014...7648880615722/
__________________
K.Knox
Just some old cameras.
  Reply With Quote

Would you buy a Leica X 113?
Old 10-22-2014   #78
faris
Registered User
 
faris's Avatar
 
faris is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 884
Would you buy a Leica X 113?

No.
No.
And No.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2014   #79
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
A new set of Leica X photos I posted this morning are here:
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=145363

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-22-2014   #80
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by kknox View Post
Some shots from the drive home tonight. All JPEG's straight from the camera. All shot in standard mode. Nothing special, just wanted to see how the X113 handles color. Have had the camera over a week, no chance to use it.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/285014...7648880615722/
Some nice shots. I like this one:


and this one:


although the latter could use a little processing work.

G
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 19:56.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.