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Old 11-17-2013   #81
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Whaa, Raid? You have both the M8 and the M9? You should have let us know!!
They make the near perfect pair of cameras for me. It is also a compact set for a small camera bag. Rotating two lenses between them gives me multiple focal lengths.
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Old 11-17-2013   #82
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Take a deep breath Duane, think we all get the idea you don't like Sony.
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Old 11-17-2013   #83
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To show some balance, there have been some very agressive anti Leica/ pro SONY posters here and there who appeared as being fanatic in showing their disgust of Leica digital cameras and their prices.

These are camera brands. Calm down.
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Old 11-17-2013   #84
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Well said Raid

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Old 11-17-2013   #85
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Gary,

This is how I have been seeing the postings online. There is often no reasonable balance. The anti-snob factor was very clear. It seems that some Leica users reacted to such "sub optimal" postings. (I nearly succumbed to the temptation to use another expression, but I proudly resisted here!)
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Old 11-17-2013   #86
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Take a deep breath Duane, think we all get the idea you don't like Sony.
I'm breathing very calmly hausen. And its not that I don't like Sony. I think they're a great company. But their camera designs and ergonomics are no different than all the other camera manufacturers except Leica.

We're on a Leica forum here discussing how well this camera will be able handle Leica M mount lenses and how great this camera will be by having the ability to use those lenses.

Plus we have someone saying this camera will be winning all kinds of photo awards with how its sensor renders, etc.

I understand those that don't want to shell out the funds or can afford the latest Leica M body. It is a lot of money. And its far from perfect either.

Once the camera is in the hands of enough photographers who take pictures in day to day operations we will finally get to see how it stacks up to its competition.

Actually, this conversation should be conducted on the Canon or Nikon forums since that is where Sony is trying to take market share. Their lens lineup is FE mount autofocus lenses. The talk here is about third party adapters and connecting third party lenses which aren't designed for Sony's sensor as Zeiss has already acknowledged.
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Old 11-17-2013   #87
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Here is some very interesting stuff:
http://cityusam01.blogspot.com/2013/11/sony-a7_14.html

a bunch of unusual RF glass

That's the plain A7 not R

I notice some plain vignetting and plain magenta corners on quite a few of those images.
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Old 11-17-2013   #88
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Held off on M240 and may buy A7r. Anyone else in this boat?

Did you read the title of the thread? You may note the question is whether there are others holding off on the M240 for the A7r? I have the M9 and had the M8 and got offered the M240 last week but said no, and I can afford it. Just find it tiresome when all someone wants to do is bag something that a lot of people have been waiting for. And that includes people bagging the M240 as well. I have the RX-1 and love the way that Zeiss lens captures B&W Raw but equally love my Summicons on my M6.
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Old 11-17-2013   #89
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They make the near perfect pair of cameras for me. It is also a compact set for a small camera bag. Rotating two le ss bewteen them gives me multiple focal lengths.

Of course! If you need a third focal length will you buy an M240?
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Old 11-17-2013   #90
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Plus none of the lenses in these modern cameras give you depth of focus guides.
The Olympus m4/3 12mm and 17mm f1.8 come equipped with a focusing ring that can be pulled back to switch to manual focusing, which then reveals depth of focus guides.

Otherwise, I agree with your post.
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Old 11-17-2013   #91
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Of course! If you need a third focal length will you buy an M240?
The 35 and 50 set rotate between the M8 and M9, giving me 35-50-65 for a great set of classical Summicron lenses. I also use other lenses by Zeiss, Leica, Nikon, Canon, and CV.
I have no interest in any other digital cameras now. When I miss film, I have the M3 and M6, plus SWC and Rolleiflex for MF.
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Old 11-17-2013   #92
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The Olympus m4/3 12mm and 17mm f1.8 come equipped with a focusing ring that can be pulled back to switch to manual focusing, which then reveals depth of focus guides.

Otherwise, I agree with your post.
Fuji also did this on their 14 and 23 mm lenses. Whether they will do it on other lenses in the future, not sure.

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Old 11-17-2013   #93
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The 35 and 50 set rotate between the M8 and M9, giving me 35-50-65 for a great set of classical Summicron lenses. I also use other lenses by Zeiss, Leica, Nikon, Canon, and CV.
I have no interest in any other digital cameras now. When I miss film, I have the M3 and M6, plus SWC and Rolleiflex for MF.

Lol! Now I understand, thanks!
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Old 11-18-2013   #94
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Watch that you don't fetishize the camera at the expense of the pictures.
Nah, no chance of that semilog. You've taken what I said completely out of context too you naughty chap.

My whole point was who gives a fig about what camera you use but it is important to find the "type" of camera that suits you and you work best with. An RF just happens to be the type of camera that suits "me". Nothing more, nothing less to be read into that.
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Old 11-18-2013   #95
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It has been up until now, Raid, but the continuing price increases on new equipment coupled with the radical slowing of really breakthrough advances will probably cause some of the better bodies to hold their value and potentially increase in value. Time will tell.
Doubtful — particularly for cameras that require proprietary batteries.
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Old 11-18-2013   #96
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We're on a Leica forum here…
Well, in the Leica corner of the Rangefinder Forum, anyway.

And that does not imply any need to show special deference to Leica (which, by the way, I've been shooting since my dad put an M3 in my hands — with supervision — at age 5).
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Old 11-18-2013   #97
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Doubtful — particularly for cameras that require proprietary batteries.
Not merely proprietary batteries, mind you, but $120 proprietary batteries!

Although even the later model electronic film cameras were designed around some pretty obscure and hard to find batteries.
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Old 11-18-2013   #98
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And that does not imply any need to show special deference to Leica (which, by the way, I've been shooting since my dad put an M3 in my hands — with supervision — at age 5).
Now that's a fine and touching memory of a father's influence ...
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Old 11-18-2013   #99
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"Collector's Item" and "Digital Camera" are mutually exclusive.
This is a fact.
New fact!! ---> Digital Colletors Item for Sale - Cheap!
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Old 11-18-2013   #100
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Doubtful — particularly for cameras that require proprietary batteries.
What is the problem with the batteries? Even if discontinued they are easily refurbished.
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Old 11-18-2013   #101
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"Collector's Item" and "Digital Camera" are mutually exclusive.
This is a fact.
This is an opinion…
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Old 11-18-2013   #102
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It is a factual opinion!
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Old 11-18-2013   #103
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Facts are quickly emerging in the form of images. Like them or don't.

The more you see the better you understand what you might get with the sonys.

here is the most comprensive resource at the moment:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1254258/0

e.g.
cv 35/1.4 Nokton


a7r_3 by Mehmet KODALAK, on Flickr
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Old 11-19-2013   #104
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Had the M8, then the M9, now the M (Typ 240) tried the A7 and A7r not for me, I can't stand the EVF. I didn't like the wide angle lenses either... In the end it's only money we're talking about that would be the reason not to buy it. Knowing it gets earned back in a year rather then a few months. I happily bought my silver chrome M a while ago.
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Old 11-19-2013   #105
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Have to agree with r.c.rocker: "I honestly don't understand the urge to buy an AF camera to use MF lenses anyway." Nor would I want to use the f2.8 35. (Where has al the bokeh gone?) Staying with M9 and back to taking M240 seriously for higher ISOs, – or just waiting with X100s for high ISOs, to see what develops by the time I'd get an M.
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Old 11-19-2013   #106
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Have to agree with r.c.rocker: "I honestly don't understand the urge to buy an AF camera to use MF lenses anyway."
Just a quick cursory look at what others are already experiencing with this camera tells me I still will not anything to do with today's "modern" cameras:

From DPreview:

Quote:
I like most of the controls, including the rear control dial; however, the front dial is easy to forget, and hard to actuate when you remember, and the EV compensation dial turns accidentally in a bag, and even when I'm just hand-holding the camera - I have to check it every time I want to take a picture.
(emphasis mine)

Quote:
In the responsiveness department, the only noticeable lag is when powering on the camera, which can take between one and three seconds, and switching automatically from the rear LCD to the EVF. This takes about a second, which isn't really fast enough. It's enough time to miss a shot, as has happened; over time, you learn to plan for it, move more quickly to the EVF if that's what you think you'll need.
Quote:
After shooting several hundred images on our trip with Sony in Tennessee, I found far fewer sharp-focus images from my α7 shooting than from the α7R. Other editors had the same trouble, at least one declaring she had no sharp shots from the α7, while the α7R was fine. Most of the trouble I found was when shooting with the 28-70mm OSS lens, so I switched to the 35mm F2.8 just to get a few more sharp images as we walked around Rock City. I got much better, in-focus images with the 35mm and 55mm lenses.
(looks like the kit lens is not going to get the job done in a reliable way)
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Old 11-19-2013   #107
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OMG you guys are telling me the sony is not perfect, and some might not be interested, or find they don't like it for one reason or the other?

I'm shocked


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Originally Posted by thompsonks View Post
Have to agree with r.c.rocker: "I honestly don't understand the urge to buy an AF camera to use MF lenses anyway." Nor would I want to use the f2.8 35. (Where has al the bokeh gone?) Staying with M9 and back to taking M240 seriously for higher ISOs, – or just waiting with X100s for high ISOs, to see what develops by the time I'd get an M.
Good lord if you have an M9 now and like it what is the issue? Keep it and love it

Your impression of the FE 35/2.8 is a minority view however. It's now widely regarded as a world class 35 sonnar wicked sharp with gorgeous oof rendering. ISO performance of the camera means it can be used in very low light.

I also underestimated the lens, and made a few uneducated remarks about in another forum. The case was made, I looked at hundreds of images from it and changed my mind.

Don't anyone take my word for it. Go to flickr and search "A7r" or something similar and sort by "recent". Make up your own mind.

Users who own and are happy with their Ms or any camera don't need this one. I'm not sure why some need to go the next step and trash it---human nature I guess.

Most of us do not own a M9 or M240, I hate to inform some. Or we want to adopt a friend for the M.

If anyone thinks my goal is to talk anyone out of their M, you are incorrect.

I have learned alot about the sony and can share it. I will soon have one. That's it.
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