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Optics Theory - This forum is aimed towards the TECHNICAL side of photographic OPTICS THEORY. There will be some overlap by camera/manufacturer, but this forum is for the heavy duty tech discussions. This is NOT the place to discuss a specific lens or lens line, do that in the appropriate forum. This is the forum to discuss optics or lenses in general, to learn about the tech behind the lenses and images. IF you have a question about a specific lens, post it in the forum about that type of camera, NOT HERE.

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Old 09-21-2017   #41
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My Favorite: the look of that big beast the 5 Megapixel Olymous E1... subtleties/softness in the color palatte, refined tonal range in B&W...Beautiful

Also Loved the RD1 & the Foveon Merrills, Modern, Artsy, Wonderful
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Old 09-21-2017   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
Why else would we even shoot digital except for "the look of the files." Seems that would be the whole reason to even press a shutter.

For me AF speed is the most important (or the ability to manually focus fast).
More MP`s let me crop when I just can`t get closer or don`t want to carry around a 200FL lens.

Back to the sensor question.
I don`t require my sensor to look like film (I`ll shoot film ) so for me its the Merrills.
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Old 09-21-2017   #43
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Originally Posted by Swift1 View Post
My favorite sensor is the Olympus 12mp in the E-P1. It renders colors more like color negative film than any other sensor that I've used.
I second that. I am using the E-P1 with a Zuiko-Pen 1.2/42mm and the results are magical in terms of color and glow.
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Old 09-21-2017   #44
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The DPxm foveons I like a lot. Some doubt about the sensor in the ZD.
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Old 09-21-2017   #45
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Bought a Sigma Merrill DP2 recently. Really brings our the beauty in digital. It has got me looking at the DP Quattro H and less sure about the M8.
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Old 09-21-2017   #46
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Originally Posted by Fjäll View Post
Bought a Sigma Merrill DP2 recently. Really brings our the beauty in digital. It has got me looking at the DP Quattro H and less sure about the M8.
Look at how the Foveon sensor tries to emulate film in it's design..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor

https://www.slrlounge.com/sigma-fove...sensor-design/


X
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Old 09-21-2017   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post

The Kodak had the most incredible color and skin tones. This was an early fullframe camera, 14mp, based on the Nikon N80 film camera body. It ate batteries, was unusable at anything above the base ISO of 80, and even at ISO-80 it sucked for exposures longer than 1 second due to noise, banding, and other nasty artifacts. In good light, however, the color was gorgeous the images were noiseless and the sharpness was phenomenal (the camera had no AA filter). Due to the serious limitations it imposed, I eventually sold it. I miss it sometimes.












Wow. I've heard a lot about the Kodak but never saw images. These are awesome. Captures yellow like good slide film, something I've never gotten a digital to do right. Great light blue tone too.
I hear you on those Nikon skin tones, btw.
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Old 09-21-2017   #48
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In digital photography, the camera provides both the media (analogous to film) and an in-camera image rendering software engine (analogous to the chemical development and wet printing). Image rending can also be done independently using third-party rendering platforms.

The sensor and rendering both determine perceived image quality.

My favorite is any CMOS sensor among those with the best signal-to-noise ratios and high-quality, color-filter array optics. Many cameras meet these criteria.

S/N strongly affects information content. S/N directly determines the analog dynamic range. When the S/N is high, then image noise becomes dominated by photon (a.k.a. shot) noise. This is the lower noise limit for digital photography.

The color filters' quality affects the information content's compatibility with the demosaicking model used to render an image. The filters' frequency bandwidth properties determine how much non-red light contaminated the red pixels, how much non-blue light contaminates the blue pixels, etc

S/N and the CFA determine the technical IQ.

The sensor alone does not determine aesthetic image quality. But an inferior sensor can limit aesthetic IQ.

The perception of sensor-based aesthetic image quality is determined by the raw-file demosaicing model and the image rendering parameters. Sensor-based just means we are ignoring the roles of the lens and exposure. When the image content is high and matches the demosaicing model, aesthetic rendering possibilities are essentially unlimited.

While many cameras have excellent technical IQ, they use different in-camera JPEG/TIFF rendering engines. For instance, Nikon uses EXPEED 3, and others, Canon has DIGIC 7 and others, Leica M uses Maestro II (M10) and Maestro (type 240). Differences between in-camera rendering engines are important.

For raw-file post-production, there are numerous rendering options and each one uses its own proprietary system.
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Old 09-21-2017   #49
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RAW files from my D700 are often OK out of the camera, or need minimal touching up in Aperture. Same for my X100 or X10/20. RAW files from my M9 usually need a little work in Aperture before I'm completely happy. I imagine--as Willie says--it might not be just the sensor. There could be some processing--even with RAW files--that happens in the camera.
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Old 09-21-2017   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Epson R-D1
Leica M9
+1 on the R-D1. I picked up a M9 recently but I keep reverting to my R-D1 because I love the JPGs from it.
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Old 09-21-2017   #51
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I do like the 16mp Sony sensor in the Pentax K-5, but maybe my favourite sensor is the 4.7mp Foveon sensor in the first generation Sigma DP cameras. Here are some shots from the Sigma DP1s:


Rowing Boat
by bjolester, on Flickr


Lake Reflections II
by bjolester, on Flickr


Boathouse and Clouds
by bjolester, on Flickr


Noctilucent Clouds_foveon
by bjolester, on Flickr
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Old 09-21-2017   #52
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It's interesting how many of us favor the results from early digital cameras, often with a small pixel site count, over the current stuff.
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Old 09-21-2017   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyhead View Post
The post above have gotten me curious - it would be interesting to see some photos taken with the Fuji S5 Pro.

Here you go. These photos are not mine, as I can no longer get attractive women to pay attention to me, and my Lightroom is not organized-yet- with tags to find any of my own easily. These are available on flickr at the Fuji S5 Pro Group, which is the best place to go to get a sense of this camera. Unfortunately, many of the photos there are either taken with other Fujis, with lesser sensors, or were taken with the S5 Pro, but poorly.

I pulled out some which are completely representative of what the camera produces if used correctly. These are typical. Will post a few here, and a link to see some additional ones.

First off, besides the natural colors, the DR of this old sensor, up to 800 ISO is as good or better than any 35mm Full Frame made today. DxO has all the comparisons available.


Then there are the skin tones, and the color rendition in general.













The DR of these files allows for some superb Monochrome conversions.





There are a few more here, or spend some time at the Flickr group.
https://cloetta.smugmug.com/Fuji-S5-Pro/

https://www.flickr.com/groups/fujis5/

It is just a superb camera, intelligently used within the not-all-that-restrictive confines of it's ISO and file size limitations. And cheap as chips these days.
A Foveon will give you crisper resolution, an S5 Pro will give you this. Choices to suit everyone these days.
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Old 09-21-2017   #54
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Those are very attractive Larry.
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Agree, agree, agree.
Old 09-21-2017   #55
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Agree, agree, agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Epson R-D1
Leica M9
Both are ccd sensors, the Epson I understand is from Sony via Nikon. The Leica sensor I have no idea but I love it. My other favorite is the original X100 sensor. Smooth and creamy as cmos sensors seem to be.
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Old 09-21-2017   #56
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In my opinion the image processing in the individual camera has more influence to the look oft he files than a sensor has.

My favourites are Fujis, Leicas and - of course - Epsons R-D1 look.
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Old 09-21-2017   #57
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Originally Posted by jamin-b View Post
I only know what I have and use. The old Pentax *ist Ds makes lovely files with rich real colors, but only at base ISO (that limitation is kind of film like .
The old Sony 6mp in the Pentax *istD series was kinda wonderful in its own right. I believe the same sensor was in the Nikon D70 and D100, and the Epson R-D1 (??).

This was done with the original Pentax *istD.


IMGP4249 by Colton Allen, on Flickr
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Old 09-21-2017   #58
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Epson R-D1
Leica M9
Those would be my two, but I also really, really liked the small sensor in the Fuji X10 point and shoot. I agree that E-P1 was nice as well.
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Old 10-20-2017   #59
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MM and M 10
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Old 10-20-2017   #60
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Quote:
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Definitely the foveon sensor in the Merrills ... nothing else comes close for me.
Absolutely
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Old 10-20-2017   #61
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Here are a few samples from my Fuji FinePix S3 Pro...it has a similar sensor to the S5...but I believe the S5 has a slightly better one...





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Old 10-20-2017   #62
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Old 10-20-2017   #63
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I always loved the sensor in the Nikon D2Hs.
When it worked, my old M9 was good but just an excuse to use my lenses.

My favorite of all time was Kodak Plus-X.

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Old 10-20-2017   #64
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I agree on the Pentax, gorgeous colour. Converted black and white also looks good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift1 View Post
The old Sony 6mp in the Pentax *istD series was kinda wonderful in its own right. I believe the same sensor was in the Nikon D70 and D100, and the Epson R-D1 (??).

This was done with the original Pentax *istD.


IMGP4249 by Colton Allen, on Flickr
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Old 10-20-2017   #65
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Mine, overall, is the M8/M8.2 sensor.
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Old 10-21-2017   #66
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Nikon Df sensor and the 1st and 3rd version of Fuji XTrans.
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Old 10-21-2017   #67
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Leica M8/9 sensor with jpeg engine of those cameras.
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Old 10-21-2017   #68
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Out to Lunch, on Flickr. Lang Co Beach in-between Da Nang and Hue. Epson R-D1 - CV collapsible Heliar 2/50.
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Old 10-21-2017   #69
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Leica X 113, certainly calibrated well for IPA
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Old 10-21-2017   #70
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The 12 mp Olympus. Really beautiful colors.

I'm also very happy with the 16 mp Fuji X-Trans. Fuji colors are not my favorite but they can be tweaked in Lightroom. It's the tonality of the B&W images that really stand out for me.

I'm referring to working with the Raw files in both cases.
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Old 10-21-2017   #71
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This thread is akin to telling someone about your favorite film(s).

I haven't found any combination of sensor and converter that look like my Creo Kodachrome 64 scans. Maybe, some day?

The Fuji X-Trans with C1 raw converter (and others) produces pretty cool looking black and white files and prints.
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Old 10-21-2017   #72
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my GXR does a pretty good job at B&W. just crap enough to not look like the "too-sharp" digital trend happening now.
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Old 10-21-2017   #73
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Quote:
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This thread is akin to telling someone about your favorite film(s).

I haven't found any combination of sensor and converter that look like my Creo Kodachrome 64 scans. Maybe, some day?

The Fuji X-Trans with C1 raw converter (and others) produces pretty cool looking black and white files and prints.
If you have a Mac try RPP64 with the Fuji files.

https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/Overview.html

Latest version is here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...or/5wX3jZI6yZs

The interface takes a little getting used to but RPP64 has its own look that is beautiful. They have a K64 "Truefilm" simulation. I really like the Ektar simulation (called LF) they have. Along with the simulations also try out the different gamma curves, Film Like is good.





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Old 10-21-2017   #74
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How come no one likes the current cameras? This all sounds like nostalgia.
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Old 10-22-2017   #75
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It's interesting how many of us favor the results from early digital cameras, often with a small pixel site count, over the current stuff.
These people long for using film again! It is a fact.
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Old 10-22-2017   #76
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How come no one likes the current cameras? This all sounds like nostalgia.
I said third gen Fuji XTrans... which I thought was the 24mp models.
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Old 10-22-2017   #77
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I said third gen Fuji XTrans... which I thought was the 24mp models.
Yeah, I should have said "most". I am a fan of the 24MP Fuji sensor too. But then I haven't had a dozen digital cameras to get nostalgic about. Before Fuji, I had a 5MP Canon Digital Elph and I thought the images sucked.
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Old 10-22-2017   #78
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How come no one likes the current cameras? This all sounds like nostalgia.
The Fuji X-E2S was my last "current" camera*. It is now being discontinued in favor of the X-E3. It is increasingly hard for me to own a "current" digital camera since the models change so frequently. I haven't used film in years but I still like how you could use a film camera for decades and it never went out of date. I still own the first new Nikon I ever bought--an F2, purchased in 1974 (now that is nostalgia).

*After writing this, I realized my Ricoh GRII is still "current". I like it a lot for the B&W I get from the Raw files.
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Old 10-22-2017   #79
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I haven't used film in years but I still like how you could use a film camera for decades and it never went out of date. I still own the first new Nikon I ever bought--an F2, purchased in 1974 (now that is nostalgia).
Not sure why you think the XE2S is out of date just because it has been superceded by the XE3. The F2 didn't become out of date when they introduced the F3. I have an XE2 and an XT2. I don't hesitate to use the XE2, and I'm not planning to "update" it.
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Old 10-22-2017   #80
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Yeah, I should have said "most". I am a fan of the 24MP Fuji sensor too. But then I haven't had a dozen digital cameras to get nostalgic about. Before Fuji, I had a 5MP Canon Digital Elph and I thought the images sucked.
This is the key... if you've had more than a handful, one might stand out... if not, then you just use what you have.
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