Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Classic Film RangeFinders & Other Classics > SLRs - the unRF

SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Mirror up or not?
Old 04-27-2017   #1
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Mirror up or not?

Hi
Is there really that much perceivable difference in sharpness when using mirror up?
I'm thinking of buying a Nikon F but would rather not lose a frame. If there is a worthwhile difference then I'll be looking at the F2.
Your opnions please.
Thank you
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-27-2017   #2
Mackinaw
Think Different
 
Mackinaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: One hour south of the Mackinaw Bridge
Posts: 3,560
Depends. When I’m using my 500mm telephoto, I find that locking the mirror up does increase sharpness. But I have to use a sturdy tripod too.

Jim B.
__________________
My fancy-schmancy gallery:
http://snowcountryphotography.com

My RFF Gallery:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...user=1453&sl=m
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-27-2017   #3
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
I'll be using a 105mm at most and an original Tiltall.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-27-2017   #4
Sarcophilus Harrisii
Brett Rogers
 
Sarcophilus Harrisii is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,636
It's a bit tedious but you don't have to drop a frame on the F to use the mirror lock. Yes, the manual says you have to fire off a blank frame and that's true. But do you remember the old trick about how to make a multiple exposure with a 35mm camera that doesn't have the feature? Ie. taking up the slack in the film canister, releasing the wind lock and then securing the rewind knob as you cock the shutter? Well, it also works with the mirror lock up. As long as you cover the lens before setting the MLU and releasing the shutter (set 1/1000 + f/16 to guard against leaks) you can get the frame back, as outlined above.
Cheers
Brett
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-27-2017   #5
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Yes, i'm aware of the double exposure proceedure. I think though, I would only use that method as a last resort. As you say, it's a little tedious, especially if not really necessary.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-27-2017   #6
narsuitus
Registered User
 
narsuitus's Avatar
 
narsuitus is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
Is there really that much perceivable difference in sharpness when using mirror up?
I'm thinking of buying a Nikon F but would rather not lose a frame. If there is a worthwhile difference then I'll be looking at the F2.
Your opnions please.
Back in the 1970s, when I was shooting with my SLR mounted on a microscope, the mirror lock up feature made a big difference in image quality.

One of the reasons I switched from the Nikon F to the Nikon F2 was because of the improved F2 mirror lock up feature.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-27-2017   #7
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by narsuitus View Post
Back in the 1970s, when I was shooting with my SLR mounted on a microscope, the mirror lock up feature made a big difference in image quality.

One of the reasons I switched from the Nikon F to the Nikon F2 was because of the improved F2 mirror lock up feature.
Hmmm, I wonder if that means there would be a perceivable difference in 'normal' (non microscopic) conditions too.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-27-2017   #8
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
 
ChrisPlatt's Avatar
 
ChrisPlatt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Queens NYC
Age: 58
Posts: 2,822
I've never intentionally locked my mirror up, except in testing.
When I have "fat fingered it" and inadvertently activated MLU
it's been a surprise and took me a moment to realize my error.

Chris
__________________
Bring back the latent image!
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #9
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Why not try it? Only takes two frames per speed. Put the camera on a tripod; focus on a test target or newspaper; twist the lock; shoot. Mirror stays up, but the slap is before the exposure, so that's all you need. There's your not-locked test. Twist the lock back to free. Shoot. Mirror comes down, but not until after the exposure, so there's your locked test. Repeat for whatever speeds you're likely to use.

Incidentally, when I rested this, I found that the lock-up wasn't working on the first F I tried. I didn't know that could happen!

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #10
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Roger, thank you for your comments. However, the question is really a precurser to deciding on a F or F2 as I don't own either. If there is no discernable difference in sharpness between mirror up and not then I would prefer a F. If thats not the case then it will have to be an F2 to avoid losing a frame or uneccesary tedious procedures to save a frame. Hope that's ckear!
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #11
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 6,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
Roger, thank you for your comments. However, the question is really a precurser to deciding on a F or F2 as I don't own either.
Do you have any manual focus Nikon? If so, chances are that you already have mirror lock-up, at least enough of it for your purposes. Among the "lesser" Nikons, all Nikkormats (other than the extremely rare FS) had MLU, and the FE/FM/FA series replaced that with mirror pre-fire on the self-timer. Which serves the same purpose concerning stability, but won't do for the other use of MLU, namely mounting deep-mount lenses that extend into the mirror box - the 21/4 Nikkor and one or two of their most extreme fisheyes.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #12
icebear
Registered User
 
icebear's Avatar
 
icebear is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: just west of the big apple
Posts: 2,980
At what size are you printing the shots?
In other words, will you ever reach a resolution (as print size and viewing distance) that it will be visibly make a difference if you used mirror lock-up or not? Are you typically shooting handheld or do you use a tripod anyway?
I'd say for 35mm it's a nice to have but forget about it feature. Different story when you enter medium format...
__________________
Klaus
You have to see the light.
M9, MM & a bunch of glass, Q

my gallery:http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...d=6650&showall
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #13
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
I would have entertained a Nikkormat had it no been for the non exchangable screen.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #14
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebear View Post
At what size are you printing the shots?
In other words, will you ever reach a resolution (as print size and viewing distance) that it will be visibly make a difference if you used mirror lock-up or not? Are you typically shooting handheld or do you use a tripod anyway?
I'd say for 35mm it's a nice to have but forget about it feature. Different story when you enter medium format...
I aim to print 12x16 maximum. I normally hand hold rangefinders (printing no larger than 8x10) The project in question requires a SLR and tripod. At what print sixe would you say mirror up would make a difference?
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #15
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 6,364
You should be able to see for yourself whether you get visible amounts of unilateral vertical motion blur with your current camera and specified parameters - any other type and direction of motion blur will not be mirror related.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #16
Fraser
Registered User
 
Fraser is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,718
With a 105mm lens you shouldn't need mirror lock up, unless your using a really bad tripod. Even then you can start the exposure with a black card in front of the lens.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #17
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
Roger, thank you for your comments. However, the question is really a precurser to deciding on a F or F2 as I don't own either. If there is no discernable difference in sharpness between mirror up and not then I would prefer a F. If thats not the case then it will have to be an F2 to avoid losing a frame or uneccesary tedious procedures to save a frame. Hope that's ckear!
Sorry! My fault for not reading more carefully...

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #18
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
No problem Roger.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #19
megido
Registered User
 
megido is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
With a 105mm lens you shouldn't need mirror lock up, unless your using a really bad tripod. Even then you can start the exposure with a black card in front of the lens.
I'll be using an original Tiltall. Out of interest, what's the black card trick exactly?
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #20
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
 
Moto-Uno's Avatar
 
Moto-Uno is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Wet Coast
Posts: 1,637
Simply cover the end of the lens with an opaque card until you believe the movements have ended and then removing the card to allow light in . Peter
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #21
zuikologist
.........................
 
zuikologist is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London
Posts: 1,869
Would that only work for B setting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto-Uno View Post
Simply cover the end of the lens with an opaque card until you believe the movements have ended and then removing the card to allow light in . Peter
__________________
<a href='http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=867'>My Gallery</a>
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2017   #22
narsuitus
Registered User
 
narsuitus's Avatar
 
narsuitus is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by megido View Post
Is there really that much perceivable difference in sharpness when using mirror up?
Image degradation due to mirror slap usually occurs between 2 second and 1/30 second shutter speeds. Faster shutter speeds are too short to be effected by the slap of the mirror. Slower shutter speeds are so long that the vibrations caused by the slap of the mirror effect only a small portion at the beginning of the long exposure.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-29-2017   #23
Alfonso B
Registered User
 
Alfonso B is offline
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuikologist View Post
Would that only work for B setting?
Wouldn't it also work on auto exposure measuring off the film?
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-29-2017   #24
ruby.monkey
Registered User
 
ruby.monkey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Garden of England
Age: 49
Posts: 4,555
I would choose an F2 over an F anyway, if only because the F2 has its shutter release button in the right place.
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-29-2017   #25
marcr1230
Registered User
 
marcr1230's Avatar
 
marcr1230 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,369
Just tried it on the F, you need to set the MLU button to up, mirror is still down, press shutter/take picture, mirror stays up, take as many shots as you want w Mirror up, then when done, turn button back to Mirror down and Mirror pops back down and you can see again

In practice , I've not used it on the F

__________________
Too many cameras, too little time
Gallery: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg....php?uid=25736
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 23:49.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.