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"Twitpic, Flickr And Other Photo-Sharing Sites Can Sell Your Images If They Want"
Old 05-12-2011   #1
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"Twitpic, Flickr And Other Photo-Sharing Sites Can Sell Your Images If They Want"

see story here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_860554.html

Disturbing Huffingtonpost story, if true.

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Old 05-12-2011   #2
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I really need to get my own site... Thanks for the info.
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Old 05-12-2011   #3
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well, I guess I should think twice before tweeting those steamy celeb pics from saturday's party on twitpic then.
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Old 05-12-2011   #4
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The saying goes, "There's no such thing as a free lunch." And it holds true for all of these free storage sites.

That's the breaks.
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Old 05-12-2011   #5
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Flickr just responded to this:
http://blog.flickr.net/en/2011/05/13...-always-yours/
I've used flickr for five years or so. They seem like they have their heads on mostly straight compared with everyone else.
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Old 05-12-2011   #6
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Sad and ugly.
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Old 05-12-2011   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keytarjunkie View Post
Flickr just responded to this:
http://blog.flickr.net/en/2011/05/13...-always-yours/
I've used flickr for five years or so. They seem like they have their heads on mostly straight compared with everyone else.
Years back at a computer company that is long gone we used to have a saying. Do you know how you can tell when your XXXX manager is lying to you......when you see his lips move!!!

The do now own but they have the rights to use any way they want is my read. I think this will quickly become an issue that will cause lots of pain, meetings, taunts and bad words to fly across the net.

Last edited by BillBingham2 : 05-12-2011 at 20:18.
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Old 05-12-2011   #8
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Section 9. So, they can use your pic on their Yahoo Services to promote their Yahoo Services, but they can't sell it unless you let them, and their rights to use it at all can be revoked by you at any time. I think that's it.


"
  1. CONTENT SUBMITTED OR MADE AVAILABLE FOR INCLUSION ON THE YAHOO! SERVICES
    Yahoo! does not claim ownership of Content you submit or make available for inclusion on the Yahoo! Services. However, with respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services, you grant Yahoo! the following worldwide, royalty-free and non-exclusive license(s), as applicable:
    1. With respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Yahoo! Services solely for the purposes of providing and promoting the specific Yahoo! Group to which such Content was submitted or made available. This license exists only for as long as you elect to continue to include such Content on the Yahoo! Services and will terminate at the time you remove or Yahoo! removes such Content from the Yahoo! Services.
    2. With respect to photos, graphics, audio or video you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services other than Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Yahoo! Services solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available. This license exists only for as long as you elect to continue to include such Content on the Yahoo! Services and will terminate at the time you remove or Yahoo! removes such Content from the Yahoo! Services.
    3. With respect to Content other than photos, graphics, audio or video you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services other than Yahoo! Groups, the perpetual, irrevocable and fully sublicensable license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content (in whole or in part) and to incorporate such Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed.
    "Publicly accessible" areas of the Yahoo! Services are those areas of the Yahoo! network of properties that are intended by Yahoo! to be available to the general public. By way of example, publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services would include Yahoo! Message Boards and portions of Yahoo! Groups and Flickr that are open to both members and visitors. However, publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services would not include portions of Yahoo! Groups that are limited to members, Yahoo! services intended for private communication such as Yahoo! Mail or Yahoo! Messenger, or areas off of the Yahoo! network of properties such as portions of World Wide Web sites that are accessible via hypertext or other links but are not hosted or served by Yahoo!."
http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/utos-173.html
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Old 05-13-2011   #9
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I'm glad I use Flickr then.

As keytarjunkie mentioned:
http://blog.flickr.net/en/2011/05/13...-always-yours/
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Old 05-13-2011   #10
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This isn't anything new, over a year ago twitter had very similar terms now they just have an exclusive agent through which they can steal your images. I bailed on them a long time ago. I still post links to my images (but not the photos themselves) on Twitter.

For what reason I have no idea, do people actually use twitter?
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Old 05-13-2011   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
Years back at a computer company that is long gone we used to have a saying. Do you know how you can tell when your XXXX manager is lying to you......when you see his lips move!!!

The do now own but they have the rights to use any way they want is my read. I think this will quickly become an issue that will cause lots of pain, meetings, taunts and bad words to fly across the net.
When a manager speaks to you this has no legal meaning. Terms of use have a legal meaning and I think the flickr terms of use are very clear and photog friendly. Where do you read that they can use your photo any way they want?
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Old 05-13-2011   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luna View Post
No reason to get paranoid.
I mean, if you put your photos online and someone really wanted to, they could take your photo (even if it is a small resolution, I could bump it up a bit and still be fine, or call it art), print it and sale it as theirs.
Its all part of the game. Get your hustle on.
+1.

Low rez photos can be copied and distributed from anywhere (personal site or public photo hosting site), what other way is to share your photos to "public"?

I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
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Old 05-13-2011   #13
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Flickr is safe. They pay me through Getty to sell my shots when they want them.
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Old 05-13-2011   #14
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flickr pays for selling images to Getty ? How does that work ?

EDIT: Just figured it out ...
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Old 05-13-2011   #15
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Even if you posted to a site that claims ownership of the image, it's only ownership of the digital file you uploaded, right? How does the fact that you control the negative (film or digital) factor in? If these terms prevent you as the photographer from distributing or selling that work, couldn't you just make another copy from the original, as a hard copy print say, and sell that?

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Old 05-13-2011   #16
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It's great that they are being up front with their terms of service and use. If you don't like the terms, don't use the free service, but it's a great service for those wanting to share a quick shot that has nothing to do with art or revenue.

Most of us screwing around on the internet forums wouldn't know what real art is even if it kicked us in the pants.

In a recent deal, I sent some 8.5x11 prints along with the product in the flat rate box, and got a reply thanking me for the requested product, and a WTF? on the photos... (no, they weren't photos of the cat )
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Old 05-13-2011   #17
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I guess that actually checking flickr's terms of service was just too much work for that reporter.
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Old 05-14-2011   #18
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Everyone with a camera thinks they're a photographer.

For a change, I agree with Ted's comment (ampguy) - most "photographers" take themselves FAR too seriously.

Dave
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Old 05-14-2011   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsang View Post
Everyone with a camera thinks they're a photographer.

For a change, I agree with Ted's comment (ampguy) - most "photographers" take themselves FAR too seriously.

Dave
Everyone with a camera IS a photographer. That's exactly why services such as Twitpic make these kinds of deals. Any crappy picture of a newsworthy event taken with a mobile phone can potentially be sold for a lot of money.
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Old 05-14-2011   #20
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That's the trick - all photo sharing sites need some sharing verbage on their legal disclaimers as they display peoples photos. Any that compress them differently or resize them need text related to modifying the photos.

All of which sounds really scary and confusing as soon as it's in legal speak. And hard for the average person to distinguish from something more nefarious.
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Old 05-14-2011   #21
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Yeah, yeah. All that's well and good, except that twitpic (for twits I guess, ha) reserves for themselves the right to shake down anyone who publishes your (twit) pic, and then not cut you in on the action.

That is bull****, I don't care if 'this is nothing new', or 'it's free', or 'anybody who has a camera thinks they're a photographer' (guess you need three).

It always amazes me how many people jump to make excuses for this kind of rights grab, 'well socialized' I guess you could say.
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Old 05-14-2011   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranchu View Post
Yeah, yeah. All that's well and good, except that twitpic (for twits I guess, ha) reserves for themselves the right to shake down anyone who publishes your (twit) pic, and then not cut you in on the action.

That is bull****, I don't care if 'this is nothing new', or 'it's free', or 'anybody who has a camera thinks they're a photographer' (guess you need three).

It always amazes me how many people jump to make excuses for this kind of rights grab, 'well socialized' I guess you could say.
There's hypocrisy in many "photographer's" attitude towards "rights" - they feel no way about downloading from a Torrent any piece of music or movie or television show that, clearly, is created by someone/somewhere/copyrighted without paying for said item but they cry foul when someone "teefs" their photo online.

Don't want people to "teef" your photos? Plaster them with watermarks to the point where the entire meaning of the photo is lost. Don't upload high resolution images; keep them tiny to the point where detail is lost. Rail on forums like this one about how your rights are being trampled but do absolutely nothing when someone asks you for some spare change because they're hungry.

People need to see the big picture (pun intended) and quit being so self righteous.

Dave
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Old 05-14-2011   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie123 View Post
Everyone with a camera IS a photographer. That's exactly why services such as Twitpic make these kinds of deals. Any crappy picture of a newsworthy event taken with a mobile phone can potentially be sold for a lot of money.
Do you know how much a "lot of money" might be?
It's a relative term after all.
A "lot of money" to the homeless is a cup of coffee...

Dave
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Old 05-14-2011   #24
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So you just threw in the homeless because it sounded good?

"Rail on forums like this one about how your rights are being trampled but do absolutely nothing when someone asks you for some spare change because they're hungry."

What do the hungry have to do with tw*tpic selling people's photos?
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Old 05-14-2011   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranchu View Post
So you just threw in the homeless because it sounded good, huh?

" Rail on forums like this one about how your rights are being trampled but do absolutely nothing when someone asks you for some spare change because they're hungry."

What do the homeless have to do with tw*tpic selling people's photos?
Thanks for taking only a PORTION of the post to try to make it look out of context - there are bigger things to be concerned about.

Dave
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Old 05-14-2011   #26
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Thanks for taking only a PORTION of the post to try to make it look out of context - there are bigger things to be concerned about.

Dave
Ok, here's the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsang View Post
There's hypocrisy in many "photographer's" attitude towards "rights" - they feel no way about downloading from a Torrent any piece of music or movie or television show that, clearly, is created by someone/somewhere/copyrighted without paying for said item but they cry foul when someone "teefs" their photo online.
I have never downloaded a torrent, so I guess that doesn't apply to me. In any case what does hypocrisy matter, if tw*tpic is making money stealing rights then that's what they're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsang View Post
Don't want people to "teef" your photos? Plaster them with watermarks to the point where the entire meaning of the photo is lost.
I do, but that still avoids the issue. Tw*tpic is stealing rights and money from those who use their service. Sure nobody has to, but that doesn't mean tw*tpic's not deceiving their users to make money off them, does it?

No, that is exactly what they're doing, they sat in a room and schemed it up too. Bunch of little sh*ts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsang View Post
People need to see the big picture (pun intended) and quit being so self righteous.
Just righteous, Dave, thanks.

Last edited by Ranchu : 05-14-2011 at 14:39.
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Old 05-14-2011   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsang View Post
There's hypocrisy in many "photographer's" attitude towards "rights" - they feel no way about downloading from a Torrent any piece of music or movie or television show that, clearly, is created by someone/somewhere/copyrighted without paying for said item but they cry foul when someone "teefs" their photo online.

Don't want people to "teef" your photos? Plaster them with watermarks to the point where the entire meaning of the photo is lost. Don't upload high resolution images; keep them tiny to the point where detail is lost. Rail on forums like this one about how your rights are being trampled but do absolutely nothing when someone asks you for some spare change because they're hungry.

People need to see the big picture (pun intended) and quit being so self righteous.

Dave
Sorry but this is such a load of crap that I have a hard time knowing where to start. First let's get this straight. Your saying that because many people, some of whom probably are photographers, infringe on copyrights by downloading pirated content, it is ok for a corporation to essentially appropriate the content of its users irrevocably and in perpetuity? What the hell does one have to do with the other? Or are saying that you disagree with the concept of copyright itself? That would at least make sense.
And what does a homeless guy have to do with it?

What's the 'big picture' you want people to see exactly? That corporations should get away with anything they want and that the users should just shut up?

And why are you focusing on ''photographers''? This affects photographers and non-photographers alike. If a guy takes a picture of something newsworthy on his iPhone and that picture ends up in a newspaper he should get to say whether he wants it there or not and he should get proper compensation.
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Old 05-14-2011   #28
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Do you know how much a "lot of money" might be?
It's a relative term after all.
A "lot of money" to the homeless is a cup of coffee...

Dave
Wtf? What the hell are you even talking about? What's with you and homeless people? Yes, Twitpic stands to make a lot of money by accumulating millions of pictures which essentially constitute a stock archive. Some might get sold for a few hundred and some for a few thousand but everything adds up pretty quickly.
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Old 05-14-2011   #29
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The bottom line is - don't like the sites, don't like the agreements, don't post there. Moaning and groaning about it on another site does squat. Vote with your mouse.

Dave
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Old 05-14-2011   #30
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I put generated JPGs on my Flickr account and have never worried about someone thinking that my photos are good enough to use them to their advantage. Like all things in life, talent is both a blessing and a curse.
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Old 05-14-2011   #31
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Hmm, I've never heard of a legal term called "the void", sounds very convenient for making money selling work you don't own.

Last edited by photomoof : 05-14-2011 at 18:02. Reason: personal
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Old 05-14-2011   #32
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Originally Posted by keytarjunkie View Post
Flickr just responded to this:
http://blog.flickr.net/en/2011/05/13...-always-yours/
I've used flickr for five years or so. They seem like they have their heads on mostly straight compared with everyone else.
I am satisfied with this response.
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Old 05-14-2011   #33
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kshapero I agree, I'm satisfied with flickr's statement too.

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Old 05-14-2011   #34
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I think this is the most succinct way of describing what occurs and in the most "non-legalease" language as well.

Dave
Yes, but in tw*tpics case, they want to sell usage rights of content to other entities without compensating the creator of the content. That's different, not the same as selling ad space next to user content.


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Old 05-14-2011   #35
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Quote:
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The bottom line is - don't like the sites, don't like the agreements, don't post there. Moaning and groaning about it on another site does squat. Vote with your mouse.

Dave

Actually this accomplishes just that. Posts like these inform people of these issues, so someone who wasn't aware of them, can now make the decision if they want to use this service, allowing them to vote with their mouse.
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Old 05-14-2011   #36
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The easiest solution is the route I've chosen : Simply never take a photograph worthy of being stolen and it all becomes a non-issue.
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Old 05-15-2011   #37
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I do, but that still avoids the issue. Tw*tpic is stealing rights and money from those who use their service. Sure nobody has to, but that doesn't mean tw*tpic's not deceiving their users to make money off them, does it?
Before you accuse someone perhaps you should read. They are not stealing something, they just do what is allowed according to their terms of use.
Users loading up photos there and complaining later should go back to school .

That's my interpretation of twitpics terms of use. But I'm no lawyer.

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Old 05-15-2011   #38
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Before you accuse someone perhaps you should read. They are not stealing something, they just do what is allowed according to their terms of use.
Users loading up photos there and complaining later should go back to school .

That's my interpretation of twitpics terms of use. But I'm no lawyer.
A fair point. However, the as we call it in German "das Kleingedruckte" (small print) is no easy stuff and I bet a couple of lawyer spent a good amount of time to make the terms of use safe for the business of the site owner and still attractive and reasonable sounding for the potential user (if he is willing to spend the time and effort to read them completely. I did not read them at all and don`t care. )
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Old 05-15-2011   #39
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Flickr just responded to this:
http://blog.flickr.net/en/2011/05/13...-always-yours/
I've used flickr for five years or so. They seem like they have their heads on mostly straight compared with everyone else.
Until Flickr gets sold to that particular someone else that is, ofcourse.

Guess I'll be scrapping my account there in the next couple of months, have some work to do on my rights management anyway.

I wonder, does this 'being allowed to sell' thing also apply to images that used to be on their servers and got deleted since? I reckon it would, right?
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Old 05-15-2011   #40
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Until Flickr gets sold to that particular someone else that is, ofcourse.

Guess I'll be scrapping my account there in the next couple of months, have some work to do on my rights management anyway.

I wonder, does this 'being allowed to sell' thing also apply to images that used to be on their servers and got deleted since? I reckon it would, right?
Are you talking about flickr in your last sentence? They are not allowed to sell so who are you talking about?
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