Old 06-08-2017   #81
Daryl J.
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Opinion:

The very center of the fantastic sphere of 50mm lenses that work on M mount Leicas is the V.3 Summicron.

Learn it well and then branch out from there.


Other:
As a Hassey user myself, if that's the image style you're after, the Planar gets you the closest albeit with the limits of working with a relatively tiny negative.


I wish you all the best with your M4. It's a delightful piece of kit.
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Last edited by Daryl J. : 06-08-2017 at 00:23. Reason: I lost my left shoe. Again.
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Old 06-08-2017   #82
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Hi,

I guess I'd better chip in and point out that whatever you choose you just can't win because they are all compromises.

So go for one of them and, after a while, you'll notice what it lacks and will start looking at another to make up for it but that one will, after a while, be lacking in something and so, after a while, you'll get another and so it will go on and on and on because none of them are perfect and they all lack something.

And then, one day, you'll realise that the one you need is at home and then...

Well, at this point I'll say pick one with a pin; it will save a lot of agonising. Have fun.

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Old 06-08-2017   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabledog View Post
What about 35mm? What's everyone's go to 35mm lens?
That's another 10 page thread...
For every lens there at 10 opinions, and like David says above they're all comprising something.
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Old 06-08-2017   #84
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Originally Posted by Cabledog View Post
What about 35mm? What's everyone's go to 35mm lens?
Want to stay in the under $1000 range?

35mm F/2.8 Summaron
35mm Voigtlander f/2.5 Color Skopar

These are not compromises. They are world-class in the own way, at the right price.
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Old 06-08-2017   #85
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Want to stay in the under $1000 range?

35mm F/2.8 Summaron
35mm Voigtlander f/2.5 Color Skopar

These are not compromises. They are world-class in the own way, at the right price.
Not to be picky, but they compromise speed.
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Old 06-08-2017   #86
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Used Color Skopar 35 2.5 is well under 300$ for LTM versions now. It was my go to lens three times. And I let it go all three times. I place it as way better than better than nothing lens for bw and fine lens for color. All three versions are build with real metal and all have clean and clear glass.
Next to it is Nokton 35 1.4 by popularity and affordability for fresh lens. Focus shift and barrel distortions. The Ultron 35 1.7 is better lens for go to (both versions), but unfortunately it is missing focus tab.
Some people are using old made Nikon, Canon lenses as go to lens. But I have bad luck with fungus and else coming with old lenses.
Some could afford old Leitz made glass, Summaron 35 2.8 and Summicrons, Summilux. To me it is terribly overpriced. My go to 35 lens is Leica made Summarit-M 35 2.5, purchased NiB for 1200$ in 2016. It is registered under my name with Leica customer support and it is my lens by all means. Aspherical element, micro contrast, super nice rendering and best handling. Hood is sexy.
Oh, here is Zeiss ZM lenses for 35. But I don't like handling. I think they are safest bet and some if not most are finding them to be nice in rendering.
And if you broke, here is always Jupiter 12. Cost is next to nothing. Always clean glass, always stiff focus due to gunk instead of lubrication. Oil on aperture blades is the signature of this lens construction. Huge flare is the signature on negatives you will get.
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Old 06-08-2017   #87
Erik van Straten
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Ko.Fe., it seems that you tried them all. About the Summarit 35mm f/2.5 you say it has an aspherical element. This I didn't know.
I've heard a story that the new Summarits 50mm f/2.4 and 35mm f/2.4 are optically the same as the f/2.5 versions. Do you know anything about that?

You have tried the 35mm f/2.5 Color-Skopar. Does this lens have any barrel or pincushion distortion?

Erik.
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Old 06-08-2017   #88
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Erik, for 250$ used lens Color Skopar is only missing micro-contrast on bw. It is all I was able to notice. I owned/used all three versions of this lens. Two of them were the only lens I used for year or so. I don't think it has the Nokton 35 1.4 problems, because it is 2.5 lens.

Summarit-M 35 2.5 and 2.4 are exactly the same optical formula lenses.
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica..._medium=E-Mail
Quote:
No new optical design was need to achieve the bigger aperture. Leica engineers were able to increase the maximum aperture by 1/8 exposure value by tighter tolerances in the production process. The lens design for the Summarit-M 35 mm includes one aspherical lens element, the predecessor included the same lens element, but it was not mentioned in the official lens name.
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Old 06-08-2017   #89
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Thank you, Ko.Fe. Very interesting information.

However, I never quite understand what "micro-contrast" means. I will study that. I like the Color-Skopar for LTM because it is so small. I dislike somehow the bayonet-clamp for the lens hood on the M version.

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Old 06-08-2017   #90
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For 35mm, I like the ZM 35/2.8 Biogon-c.
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Old 06-08-2017   #91
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I'm very happy with the Canon 35/2.0 and the Summaron 35/3.5, both LTM. The Canon is sharp, gives more of a modern look (my sample dates from around 1971), yet can render subtleties in tone and hue that a higher contrast lens might miss. It's got a recessed front element and is fairly flare resistant, so I never use a hood with it. The aluminum body means it's lightweight, good for travel.

The Summaron is a classic, vintage Leica lens from the late 1940s. It's tiny, beautifully made, very sharp but with moderate contrast as one would expect from a coated lens of that era. It rocks on a Barnack-style camera. Again, I've found my sample to be relatively flare resistant, so I don't use a hood with it. The 3.5 version of this lens is often much cheaper than the 2.8 in either LTM or M-mount. I think the 35/3.5 is good value if you get a clean sample.
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Old 06-08-2017   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Thank you, Ko.Fe. Very interesting information.

However, I never quite understand what "micro-contrast" means. I will study that. I like the Color-Skopar for LTM because it is so small. I dislike somehow the bayonet-clamp for the lens hood on the M version.

Erik.

"micro-contrast" is something which is very hard to explain by me.
Here is something close to my experience. Canon L and non-L is 100% spot on for me.
http://yannickkhong.com/blog/2016/2/...y-of-the-world
Most astonishing lens with micro-contrast in color I have on DSLR was modern Zeiss ZE 50 1.4 lens. Disaster on 1.4, but under good light and f5.6 it was unbeatable on how smooth and detailed transitions were. With perfect balance of contrast and details.

Now for me it is something more visible in bw and for me it is mostly on bw darkroom prints. I was never happy with CV CS 35 2.5 prints. I look at them and they are sharp, but it was kind of empty, something was missing between sharp lines. Something similar with many non expensive MF lenses.
But some lenses just have it. For example Olympus XA lens is flat on bw, yet Trip 35 is juicy on bw prints. Cheap Oly.Z 50 1.8 has it, even 50/2 lens on Kiev-19 renders not just sharp, but brings a lot between sharp lines.
I think it is more visible with f5.6 and smaller apertures and it is something to look at the image part where it is in focus.

UPD: Summaron 35 3.5 is less to none "micro-contrast", 2.8 is one of the best. IMO.
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Old 06-08-2017   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingley View Post

The Summaron is a classic, vintage Leica lens from the late 1940s. It's tiny, beautifully made, very sharp but with moderate contrast as one would expect from a coated lens of that era. It rocks on a Barnack-style camera.
Yes, Steve, it is a great lens, I think it is better than the Summaron f/2.8. But the screw-mount version is very confusing in use. The f/stop ring turns when you focus, so when choosing the right f/stop I need my glasses. The M-versions are ergonomically better but optically the same.

P.S. There are also later LTM versions of the Summaron f/3.5, they are like the last bayonet version. The latest versions are ergonomically the best.

Erik.
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Old 06-09-2017   #94
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This is the one I'm leaning towards. After looking back through my photos I think 35mm might suit my style more. I'll also be able to see if I like the zeiss rendering on 35 negative and if I do I can grab the planar. If not I'll go for the elmar or summicron.


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For 35mm, I like the ZM 35/2.8 Biogon-c.
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Old 06-09-2017   #95
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u can get a summicron rigid and MAYBE a Jupiter 3 50 mm 1.5 as well?
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Surprised no-one has mentioned this..
Old 06-09-2017   #96
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Surprised no-one has mentioned this..

Instead of the 50 and/or the 35, just get the Summicron 40mm f2.

It's fantastic!



M4-2 + Summicron 40

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Old 06-10-2017   #97
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Actually this would fit my need of 35/50 and being compact. How is this lens for black and white? Is it similar in sharpness and contrast as say the summicron 50?

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Instead of the 50 and/or the 35, just get the Summicron 40mm f2.

It's fantastic!

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Old 06-11-2017   #98
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it might be the "water lens," but the bokeh wide open and closeup is really harsh. ymmv.
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Old 06-11-2017   #99
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So you would recommend separate 35 and 50?

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it might be the "water lens," but the bokeh wide open and closeup is really harsh. ymmv.
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Old 06-11-2017   #100
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Someone had mentioned the color skopar a few times. What's the difference in character between that and the nokton?
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Old 06-11-2017   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
"micro-contrast" is something which is very hard to explain by me.
Here is something close to my experience. Canon L and non-L is 100% spot on for me.
http://yannickkhong.com/blog/2016/2/...y-of-the-world
Most astonishing lens with micro-contrast in color I have on DSLR was modern Zeiss ZE 50 1.4 lens. Disaster on 1.4, but under good light and f5.6 it was unbeatable on how smooth and detailed transitions were. With perfect balance of contrast and details.

Now for me it is something more visible in bw and for me it is mostly on bw darkroom prints. I was never happy with CV CS 35 2.5 prints. I look at them and they are sharp, but it was kind of empty, something was missing between sharp lines. Something similar with many non expensive MF lenses.
But some lenses just have it. For example Olympus XA lens is flat on bw, yet Trip 35 is juicy on bw prints. Cheap Oly.Z 50 1.8 has it, even 50/2 lens on Kiev-19 renders not just sharp, but brings a lot between sharp lines.
I think it is more visible with f5.6 and smaller apertures and it is something to look at the image part where it is in focus.

UPD: Summaron 35 3.5 is less to none "micro-contrast", 2.8 is one of the best. IMO.
Thank you Ko.Fe., but I am still confused about micro-contrast. What it is, seems hard to define. I will study more on the subject. It seems to be related to polarisation, but maybe I am completely wrong.

Erik.
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Old 06-11-2017   #102
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The C Biogon is nice, but not small. I'd go for the modern Summarit for the 50 and agree with a clean Summaron 3.5 except slow for film: both of these are small, which is great for travel.
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Old 06-11-2017   #103
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I am by nature very impatient!
what does it matter what lens?
Buy one, it's not a life or death decision.
Everybody recommends what THEY use!
Look at the images you like, here, Flickriver by lenses,
and go crazy.
The differences are so small.
Really.
Good luck!
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Old 06-11-2017   #104
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Quote:
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So you would recommend separate 35 and 50?

I recommend to do some search for 40mm lenses on RFF. You will find some threads where a lot of details are explained. Actually, almost any lens you are going to ask is already explained here numerous times and pictures threads with many pages do exist here for most of the lenses.

M4 has accurate 35 and 50 framelines. I think, it is somewhat important for landscapes. Slapping 40mm lens on camera where no 40mm framelines are is guessing game for framing. But in numerous threads I have mentioned, it is described how 40mm lens might be more accurate at some newer Leica cameras. But not on M4.
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Old 06-11-2017   #105
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For travel, I settled on a Canon 50/1.5, a Color-Skopar 35/2.5, and a 1930s vintage Elmar 90/4. Small, cheap(ish), and image quality that more than meets my humble needs. So many good choices out there...
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Old 06-11-2017   #106
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I'm selling my 40 - mostly because unlike many here I have cheaper cameras and lenses and the 40 I have is the most valuable lens I own.

No Leica frameline is accurate. Everyone allows for adjustment around the frame. The 40 requires a 35mm frame and focussing within. No biggie, except dialing in the 35 frame - which is also no biggie with the Rollei Sonnar and its interchangeable M-mount.
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Old 06-11-2017   #107
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Get the 50mm Rigid Summicron. Seriously.
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Old 06-11-2017   #108
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First try a Color-Skopar. Really.

Leica M3, Color-Skopar 50mm f/2.5, 400-2TMY.

Erik.

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Old 06-11-2017   #109
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im leaning between this and the nokton only because there are times i shoot in low light. I'm aware of the focus shift and distortion issues of the notion but i feel it has a unique look different from the clinical sharpness of a leica or zeiss. the skopar is definitely still in the running.


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First try a Color-Skopar. Really.

Leica M3, Color-Skopar 50mm f/2.5, 400-2TMY.

Erik.

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Old 06-11-2017   #110
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Don't get: The Rigid, the DR, any f1.5 lens except perhaps the C Sonnar. Compact, and low weight, is everything for travel. Take Erik's advice and get the Skopar. Or the little Summarit 50.
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Old 06-11-2017   #111
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the rigid are already ruled out due to size. This is my compact and travel kit so the skopar is definitely appealing. I just like the idea of the faster nokton even with it's quirks but its about the same price as a 50mm elmar m that i was also going to get to complement the skopar, but 1.4...
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Old 06-11-2017   #112
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How about this idea for a travel kit M-body:
3,5/5cm Elmar red scale with a CLA and M mount adapter? It's a thought.

It will render differently than your Hasselblad and significantly. But it's inviting and interesting.


For what it's worth, I picked up a 2.8/50mm Elmar with a bent filter ring for $250 a few years back. The only issue was the bent ring, it's near mint otherwise. The collapsible lens is mighty handy for travel. I don't use the lens much because I'm not a huge fan of Tessar-like bokeh, but apart from that it's great.

And the quest continues. And a decade hence, will still be continuing. 😄
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Old 06-11-2017   #113
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Thanks for everyone's input and help on this
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Old 06-11-2017   #114
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Thanks for everyone's input and help on this
Have you made your decision? You gotta let us know!
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Old 06-11-2017   #115
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I'd buy this summaron. http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?...-5-ltm.147575/
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Old 06-12-2017   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl J. View Post
For what it's worth, I picked up a 2.8/50mm Elmar with a bent filter ring for $250 a few years back. The only issue was the bent ring, it's near mint otherwise. The collapsible lens is mighty handy for travel. I don't use the lens much because I'm not a huge fan of Tessar-like bokeh, but apart from that it's great.

And the quest continues. And a decade hence, will still be continuing. 😄
I agree with you that this is a great lens, however I am a fan of the bokeh!







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Old 06-12-2017   #117
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it might be the "water lens," but the bokeh wide open and closeup is really harsh. ymmv.
I'm not sure what the former means, and have not noticed the later.

I have pretty much every 50mm lens mentioned on this thread.. as well as the Summicron 40 f2, Voigtlander 40 1.4, Rollei Sonnar 40 2.8

Here's the thing .. You are shooting film so you kinda do need a fast lens unless you are going to put your camera away when the light dims. A faster lens obviously is more flexible. The Cron 40 is fast enough, is super compact, and super high quality. It is one of my favourite lenses. To estimate frame lines I frame between the 35 and 50... The dirty secret is that none of the Leica frame lines are accurate. So just shoot.

If u want speed, the CV 50 1.1 is fantastic, but is big. Used u can get them for about $600 if u are patient. I paid a bit under that for mine.

But no matter what you get, they really are all good.
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Old 06-12-2017   #118
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Did you ever have the CV nokton 1.4 35?

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I'm not sure what the former means, and have not noticed the later.

I have pretty much every 50mm lens mentioned on this thread.. as well as the Summicron 40 f2, Voigtlander 40 1.4, Rollei Sonnar 40 2.8

Here's the thing .. You are shooting film so you kinda do need a fast lens unless you are going to put your camera away when the light dims. A faster lens obviously is more flexible. The Cron 40 is fast enough, is super compact, and super high quality. It is one of my favourite lenses. To estimate frame lines I frame between the 35 and 50... The dirty secret is that none of the Leica frame lines are accurate. So just shoot.

If u want speed, the CV 50 1.1 is fantastic, but is big. Used u can get them for about $600 if u are patient. I paid a bit under that for mine.

But no matter what you get, they really are all good.
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Old 06-12-2017   #119
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I haven't decided yet!! Hahaha. And my m4 will be here today!

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Old 06-12-2017   #120
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Did you ever have the CV nokton 1.4 35?

No.. Summicron 35 Asph, Summaron 35 3.5, CV 35 2.5, CV 35 1.2, ZM 35 1.4, LOMO 32 2.8..

The CV 35 1.4 supposedly has a bit of focus shift but once you figure that out you shouldn't have any issues. Meant to have a bit of distortion too but u can remove that in LR or just not use it for critical architectural photography.
It's a very cool lens because it is small, fast and affordable.

The CV 40 1.4 is also a great alternative - bridging the gap between 35 and 50 and gives u speed and small size. Not as sharp as the Cron wide open, but the Cron does not give you 1.4.

Honestly though, pick a lens, any lens (I know I'm not helping!) and enjoy that camera.
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