Calling V.1 50mm Summilux fans
Old 12-01-2016   #1
Daryl J.
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Smile Calling V.1 50mm Summilux fans

Since relatively little information is readily apparent online regarding the V.1 50mm Summilux, perhaps it would be good to have people who use one explain and/or demonstrate why they like it.

And yes, this thread is different than ''The V.2 and newer is ''better'''. It's different than ''It's a redone 1.5/50mm Summarit".

It seems like there is a generous skill set on this forum with enthusiastic users by and large and if there is an area to collect Summilux One info, it would be from you all.

And yes, I'm both biased and excited: mine arrived today from Dan Tamarkin.
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Old 12-01-2016   #2
Erik van Straten
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Leica M5, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v1, 400-2TMY.

Full aperture.



Stopped down a bit.



Erik.
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Old 12-03-2016   #3
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I have a V1 Summilux. It's a good lens, but definitely different than the V2 and later. I also have the Summarit it is supposed to be descended from and they are different enough that I will keep them both. It may be that my Summarit is not adjusted correctly, but I like how soft it is.
This was taken this morning with a V1 Summilux on an M9.
L1061983 by lenses*for*sale, on Flickr
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Old 12-04-2016   #4
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I believe that the Summarit was adjusted to focus correctly around f2.8. The focus shift always made it hard for me to get it right wide open. I've always assumed that the Nikkor 1.5 made Leica rethink that approach and that the Summilux was probably factory adjusted for accurate focus wide open. Can anybody confirm that?

I have brief resolution comparison of the V1 and V2 Summilux from an old Camera 35 magazine and there are trade offs in both directions. The V2 was an amaxing accomplishment, and is still a fabulous lens today, but I'm very curious about the V1. I hope to get a chance to compare my V2 to the early one sometime.
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Old 12-04-2016   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark C View Post
The V2 was an amaxing accomplishment, and is still a fabulous lens today, but I'm very curious about the V1.
For many years I've used the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v2, an early model in chrome and aluminium. It is a fine lens, but it shows quite a lot of barrel distortion, due to the fact that coma is corrected to an extreme degree.

However, when I started to scan my negatives, I found this barrel distortion quite disturbing. On a print it is less disturbing than on screen.

Now I have the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v1. I like it much better. Straight lines! No distortion. Maybe there is coma, but I do not see it.

Leica M3, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v2, Tmax100.

(See the barrel distortion on the left)

Erik.

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Old 12-08-2016   #6
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Thks for the photos and information.

I bought a BGN copy from KEH recently, unfortunately full of fungus stain on front and back element. Not sure what happened to KEH. I'm returning it, but still hoping to find a nice copy soon.

Was hoping to compare it with the summarit and v3 lux.
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Old 12-09-2016   #7
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How significant is the focus shift of the 1.5/50 Summarit when wide open? And does the Type 1 Summilux also focus shift?
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Old 12-09-2016   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weihsuan View Post
I bought a BGN copy from KEH recently, unfortunately full of fungus stain on front and back element. Not sure what happened to KEH. I'm returning it, but still hoping to find a nice copy soon.
I just want to point out that you bought a bargain condition lens. KEH does have a reputation of undergrading their stuff but bargain means its bottom of the barrel, anything can happen.

I'm not sure what you were expecting buying bargain and complaining about the condition of the lens... If you wanted EX, you should have bought EX.
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Old 12-09-2016   #9
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The focus shift on the Summarit seemed about like with a 50/1.5 Sonnar. I'm okay with that now that I know it is there, but I want it to focus correctly wide open and the Summarit doesn't. I am anxious to hear more about this from the Summilux 1 owners, but there just don't seem to be many on here. Or maybe they are just happily shooting away.
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Old 12-09-2016   #10
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Mark,
I have both and although I currently haven't any way to digitally share my analog images I hope to share what I notice.
Cheers,
Daryl
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Old 12-09-2016   #11
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Never noticed focus shift on my 1.5 Summarit. My use has been 5 kit range @1.5 and landscapes at 15 feet to infinity, F 4 and smaller.
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Old 12-09-2016   #12
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@Ronald M: Being just a layman with a camera interest, what is a 5 kit range @F1.5?
Thanks.
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Old 12-09-2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl J. View Post
How significant is the focus shift of the 1.5/50 Summarit when wide open? And does the Type 1 Summilux also focus shift?
I took test pictures with small child posing for me on the lawn chair. One of the prints is at my office now. It was no focus shift with Summarit, but glow at f1.5. Specifically at f1.5, not at f2 and smaller.
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Old 12-09-2016   #14
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Ko.Fe, thanks.
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Old 12-09-2016   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weihsuan View Post
Thks for the photos and information.

I bought a BGN copy from KEH recently, unfortunately full of fungus stain on front and back element. Not sure what happened to KEH. I'm returning it, but still hoping to find a nice copy soon.

Was hoping to compare it with the summarit and v3 lux.
King Grant, the founder of KEH, sold the company a couple of years ago. I was a customer of KEH almost since day one when They were located in an old house on Spring St in downtown Atlanta. You could go by and ask to see particular items and they'd bring up a selection to the lobby ( living room) for you to choose from. That must have been in the late 70's or early 80's.

Until Grant sold it was true that Bargain was usually EX or better. Of the dozens of lenses and cameras I bought I don't think I had any Bgn grade less than Ex. Since the sale Ive had bargain that was a disaster and Ex that was less than bargain. I purchased a 400 f3.5 Nikkor AIs in bargain grade that should have been AS IS and a 200mm Nikkor AIs Ex grade that had obvious impact damage. The 400 had large deep circular scratches in the front element, 80% of the paint was worn off and the focus rattled and was extremely loose. I purchased a Leica CL and was told it worked perfect and was E+. When it arrived the meter didn't work. In addition they've gon back on their policy of price matching and paying for returns of defective items.

Bgn is 80% and there are 2 grades below that Ugly and AS IS. Your lens should have been AS IS due to fungus. As Is is defined by in acceptable.

Sorry to sidetrack the thread.
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Old 12-09-2016   #16
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Good info to have nonetheless. Especially with gear of this vintage. It goes a long way to explain my Leica M4 purchased from there......
The Summarit of mine came from Blue Moon Camera in N Portland and the Type 1 Summilux from Dan Tamarkin. I'm very happy with both purveyors, both lenses, and look forward to enjoying them.
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Old 12-09-2016   #17
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Tamarkin has been excellent to deal with. Only positive experiences.
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Old 12-09-2016   #18
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I've never owned a 50 summilux other than the current asph. What are the differences in v1 & v2 models? Just guessing do the differences only show between 1.4 & 2.8? I'd love to see side by side shots of the same subject. Also how do they compare at the same aperture with the rigid v2 or DR summicron?
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Old 12-09-2016   #19
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If I have this right, the V.1 Summilux is the final edition of the Taylor-Hobson 1.5/50mm Xenon lens. The V.2 Summilux is a different design.
V.1. No barrel distortion, low contrast, lots of comma.
V.2. Obvious barrel distortion, higher contrast, low comma.

Erik and others know more and I stand to be corrected.
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Old 12-09-2016   #20
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Would you say the v2 is closest in performance to the v2 summicron?
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Old 12-09-2016   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
Would you say the v2 is closest in performance to the v2 summicron?
I have a vintage test from Camera 35 magazine comparing the new and old Summilux, and both to the rigid Summicron. They really only looked at resolution and the results were about as you would suspect with the Summicron on top. But the Summilux 2 was considered a very adequate substitute if you needed the speed. Still, the Summilux 1 had better wide open performance than I expected and very good stopped down performance. Center resolution was where the Summilux 2 showed improvement, and across the field performance was great with the Summicron. That test was one of the things that piqued my interest in the V1, along with some photos I've seen on the forum.

I was able to borrow a V1 Summilux from a fellow RFF member to shoot at a dance this evening so may finally be able to satisfy my curiosity. I alternated between the V1 and V2, and threw an early Sonnar 50/1.5 into the mix later in the evening. The film is drying now, so I'll at least get a good look at them on my light table in the morning.

I did run a quick focus confirmation as soon as I picked up the lens, and as I expected it focused spot on at 1.4 just like my V2. Comparable focus shift with both versions at f2.8.
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Old 12-09-2016   #22
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I've never used one, but I once had a Vers. 1 Summilux in my possession for a while as I was selling it for a friend. The build quality left a lasting impression on me. It was really one of most beautifully crafted lenses mechanically I've encountered. A few others lenses I've seen which I'd put in that category are some of the early Nikon rangefinder lenses made in LTM and certain Zeiss Contax rangefinder lenses, especially the Opton post war models.
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Old 12-14-2016   #23
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Marc, I'd love to see that.
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Old 12-14-2016   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl J. View Post
Marc, I'd love to see that.
The old test? Not much detail beyond resolution numbers, so I could post that info here tomorrow. PM me about it.

I've shot quite a bit with the borrowed 50 Summilux 1 over the last 5 days. Mostly shooting comparisons in situations where I would normally use that lens, and need the speed. A much softer look wide open than my V2, but I like it quite a lot.

There is actually a fair bit of detail at 1.4, and if scanning or shooting digital, just a touch of edge sharpening would really clear it up. Darkroom printing from film there might be times when it would be a little softer than I would prefer. Really, it is much more like a Sonnar in that regard than it is the V2 Summilux. And a lot like the 35 Summilux. A lot of character wide open, then very good performance starting at f2. It is a bit sharper than my early Sonnar wide open, but not all that much difference, though also a bit calmer in the out of focus. A really nice look.
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Old 12-14-2016   #25
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Old 12-14-2016   #26
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Quote:
I was able to borrow a V1 Summilux from a fellow RFF member to shoot at a dance this evening so may finally be able to satisfy my curiosity. I alternated between the V1 and V2, and threw an early Sonnar 50/1.5 into the mix later in the evening. The film is drying now, so I'll at least get a good look at them on my light table in the morning.
Hi Marc,
This.


With my 1.5/50 Summarit, I've wondered if scanning the negs and sharpening them up just a tad would give what I'm after on my wide open images. I haven't such capacity yet so it's entirely on film and optical prints.
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Old 12-14-2016   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl J. View Post
@Ronald M: Being just a layman with a camera interest, what is a 5 kit range @F1.5?
Thanks.
My computer is starting to auto complete and it does it wrong. That or I missed typed.

5 meter to infinity and 1.5 thru 4.0 I never noticed a focus shift on my Summarit
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Old 12-15-2016   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
My computer is starting to auto complete and it does it wrong. That or I missed typed.

5 meter to infinity and 1.5 thru 4.0 I never noticed a focus shift on my Summarit
Don't you just love autocorrect!?

Got it, much appreciated.
Thanks,
Daryl
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Old 12-15-2016   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl J. View Post
Hi Marc,
This.


With my 1.5/50 Summarit, I've wondered if scanning the negs and sharpening them up just a tad would give what I'm after on my wide open images. I haven't such capacity yet so it's entirely on film and optical prints.
If the resolution is there, that seems to be the case to me. Just the normal sharpening regime for scanning is enough to make something like the 35 Summilux seem much sharper wide open compared to a darkroom print, often leading a whole different impression of a lens.

It seems pretty well documented that the Summarit was intended to focus perfectly at around f2.8. That leads to just a slight front focus at 1.5 on a perfectly adjusted camera. But rangefinder adjustment is seldom that perfect, so the exact focus is going to depend on your camera and lens. The thing is that front focus (actual focus being closer than the subject) is not as apparent as back focus, so often just appears to be softness. I've made a few nice looking people pictures wide open with the Summarit, but I wouldn't call them sharp. The Summilux 1 sure seems better and the focus seems spot on at 1.4.

I think I said something earlier about the focus shift being like a Sonnar, but realized after posting that might not be accurate. The Sonnar will shift a little bit out of the depth of field, but the Summilux looks like it does not. I I don't know if the Summarit is about the same in that regard since I don't have one here to verify that. The point of best focus does shift away from you as you stop down, as with nearly all traditional fast lenses, but often isn't apparent or a significant issue.
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Old 12-15-2016   #30
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Any one knows about this modification, add-on for the Sal Dimarco Lux lens? I don't know if it is on v1 or earlier v2...
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Old 01-11-2017   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
King Grant, the founder of KEH, sold the company a couple of years ago. I was a customer of KEH almost since day one when They were located in an old house on Spring St in downtown Atlanta. You could go by and ask to see particular items and they'd bring up a selection to the lobby ( living room) for you to choose from. That must have been in the late 70's or early 80's.

Until Grant sold it was true that Bargain was usually EX or better. Of the dozens of lenses and cameras I bought I don't think I had any Bgn grade less than Ex. Since the sale Ive had bargain that was a disaster and Ex that was less than bargain. I purchased a 400 f3.5 Nikkor AIs in bargain grade that should have been AS IS and a 200mm Nikkor AIs Ex grade that had obvious impact damage. The 400 had large deep circular scratches in the front element, 80% of the paint was worn off and the focus rattled and was extremely loose. I purchased a Leica CL and was told it worked perfect and was E+. When it arrived the meter didn't work. In addition they've gon back on their policy of price matching and paying for returns of defective items.

Bgn is 80% and there are 2 grades below that Ugly and AS IS. Your lens should have been AS IS due to fungus. As Is is defined by in acceptable.

Sorry to sidetrack the thread.


Good to now, I too have found their grading has gone messed.
I got a few Ex rated items that could be only rated between BGN and UG, terrible scratches on lens body and a lot of scratchs on glass, that was Leica lens.


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Old 01-11-2017   #32
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I've stopped buying from KEH due to their now faulty grading system. It's consistently over-graded and subsequently over priced for the items received. Wallet Closed. And I'm not returning.

The Lux that lives with me came from Tamarkin and I'm very happy with how it was graded. And usually I purchase at the local old camera store in NoPo.
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Old 01-11-2017   #33
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I have a V1 50mm Summilux, it was the first lens I got for my Leica around 16 years ago. It has been everywhere with me.

Varanasi, India.....Tri-x
[/url]

Rome..... Tri-x


Kashmir, Pakistan
[url=[/IMG]

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Old 01-11-2017   #34
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Micheal, I'm glad you showed up in this thread. Your top picture, plus one of a person welding or brazing were what first piqued my interest in this lens. That plus an old magazine comparison I read led me to wonder if the first version Summilux might have its own merits that were mostly overshadowed by the later version of the lens.
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Old 01-11-2017   #35
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Leica M5, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 pre asph v1, 400-2TMY.

To show the very low degree of (pincushion) distortion of the lens.

Erik.

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Old 01-11-2017   #36
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Leica M3, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 pre asph v2, Tmax100.

To show the much bigger (barrel) distortion of the lens.

Erik.

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Old 06-26-2017   #37
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I've made a test shot with both the v1 and the v2:

Leica M2, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v1, 400-2TMY:



Leica M2, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v2, 400-2TMY:



The sharpness on the target is better with the v2, but on all other fields the v1 wins. Do you agree?

Erik.
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Old 06-26-2017   #38
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Thank you for test!
On previous week I have seen V1 (on M3) for first time. It was clean and well lubed copy. Impressive.
I'm looking at the cup, where peak of sharpness is. And it is nice at both.
Erik, I have seen your v1 photos at RFF and to me you don't have to prove it any longer . To me v1 looks better on bw film.
I also have seen Summarit, V1 and V2 test shots on M9 and... it seems only v2 is OK on digital Leica if wide open.
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Old 06-26-2017   #39
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It took a while to shoot the roll of FP4 but finally I have my first V.1 'Lux results in. I love it.

It's not bitingly sharp like some of my modern lenses but suffice to say it will be a primary user for me.
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Old 06-26-2017   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Thank you for test!
Thank you, Ko.Fe., I've made the same test with the Summiluxes 35mm v1 and v2 here:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=159114

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