Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Rangefinder Forum > Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film

Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film Discuss Image processing -- traditional darkoom or digital lightroom here. Notice there are subcategories to narrow down subject matter. .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Get rid of old developer per recommnedations what next?
Old 12-31-2008   #1
scottyb70
Registered User
 
scottyb70 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 211
Get rid of old developer per recommnedations what next?

Ok I am not going to use the old developer and fixer to what you guys recommended. I also read through the threads and still can't figure out what would be the best products for my situation.

I called up my local camera shop in Michigan and the said they have kodak and ilford products. Could you recommend which type I should get ? I am looking for alot of contrast and sharp results. I found a hay field in my area with the rolls still not removed and I think b & w would be best for the situation. I may be using my franka solida jr or the perkeo III to take the pictures. I like landscape & still life photography if that makes a difference in a particular type of film or developer to use.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #2
bmattock
Registered User
 
bmattock's Avatar
 
bmattock is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Age: 58
Posts: 10,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb70 View Post
Ok I am not going to use the old developer and fixer to what you guys recommended. I also read through the threads and still can't figure out what would be the best products for my situation.

I called up my local camera shop in Michigan and the said they have kodak and ilford products. Could you recommend which type I should get ? I am looking for alot of contrast and sharp results. I found a hay field in my area with the rolls still not removed and I think b & w would be best for the situation. I may be using my franka solida jr or the perkeo III to take the pictures. I like landscape & still life photography if that makes a difference in a particular type of film or developer to use.
Fixer is fixer, it won't affect the look of the negative.

Developers vary, but if your choice is between brands (Kodak and Ilford) then I'd say they are quite similar. What matters is the type of developer. Kodak has several - so does Ilford. I'd find out what kinds they have.

Where in Michigan are you?
__________________
Immanentizing the eschaton since 1987.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #3
rlouzan
Registered User
 
rlouzan's Avatar
 
rlouzan is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,501
Fuji Neopan 400 - in a high acutance developer like Rodinal or Kodak HC110B.

Last edited by rlouzan : 12-31-2008 at 10:35.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #4
scottyb70
Registered User
 
scottyb70 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 211
I live in plymouth mi and I was going to goto Adray Camera in dearborn.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #5
bmattock
Registered User
 
bmattock's Avatar
 
bmattock is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Age: 58
Posts: 10,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb70 View Post
I live in plymouth mi and I was going to goto Adray Camera in dearborn.
Adray is an excellent place. Given what I know of their inventory, I would suggest either Kodak HC-110 or Kodak D76. HC-110 has the advantage of being a developer you can mix when you need it, just the amount you need, and the rest will keep (it is a one-shot developer). D76 is mixed from powder and stored in a jug - it has a definite shelf life, so if you're not going to be shooting much, it may go bad before you can use it all up.

Adray tends to have Ilfosol-S and ID-11. ID-11 is the same stuff, basically, as Kodak K76. I don't have any info on Ilfosol-S, never used it.

If I were new and not knowing if I were going to keep at it, or shoot B&W very much, I believe I'd go for the HC-110 for its keeping properties.

However, any of them would most likely do for you very well.
__________________
Immanentizing the eschaton since 1987.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #6
scottyb70
Registered User
 
scottyb70 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 211
Thanks for the info I will try the hc 110, will that be good to develop my ilford fp4 plus 125? Is there anything else I need chemical wise? I have the kodak photo flo 200, kodafix and kodak 28% acetic acid. I think I am going to throw out the kodafix and photo flo due to I don't know how long its been. There is a date on the label that says "kodak 1997" at the bottom.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #7
bmattock
Registered User
 
bmattock's Avatar
 
bmattock is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Age: 58
Posts: 10,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb70 View Post
Thanks for the info I will try the hc 110, will that be good to develop my ilford fp4 plus 125?
I have never shot FP4+, but according to the Massive Dev Chart:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html
FP4+ HC-110 B 125 7-9 7-9 7-9 20C

That means HC-110 dilution B (read the instructions for HC-110), for 7 to 9 minutes at 20 degrees C.

Quote:
Is there anything else I need chemical wise? I have the kodak photo flo 200, kodafix and kodak 28% acetic acid. I think I am going to throw out the kodafix and photo flo due to I don't know how long its been. There is a date on the label that says "kodak 1997" at the bottom.
You will need a fixer, and that's a lot less critical. I like Kodak Rapid Fix, but really, any will do. Some people say you need a 'hardening' fixer and some people say no, but I think it's down to personal preference, as I've never seen a difference.

You don't need acetic acid. For getting started, you don't need much of anything. Photo Flo 200 is nice to have, it stops negative spotting due to uneven drying. I doubt it went bad, I'd use it. It's pretty inert.

You will need a good thermometer, a changing bag or completely dark room, a tank, running water, and something to measure your chemistry and a way to hang your negs when you're done with them until they dry.
__________________
Immanentizing the eschaton since 1987.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #8
rlouzan
Registered User
 
rlouzan's Avatar
 
rlouzan is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,501
Rapid fixer is a good idea, but 'hardening' fixer will make washing time longer. Just remember to fix for, at least, twice the clearing time.
I use distilled water as a final rinse - Photo Flo tends to leave gunk.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #9
Al Kaplan
Registered User
 
Al Kaplan is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Age: 76
Posts: 4,466
Photo Flo, once diluted, tends to GROW junk after a week or two but starts out junk free. It mostly depends on what "junk" is in your water supply to begin with. You can always run it through an ordinary coffee filter.
__________________
RIP

My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #10
bmattock
Registered User
 
bmattock's Avatar
 
bmattock is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Age: 58
Posts: 10,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Kaplan View Post
Photo Flo, once diluted, tends to GROW junk after a week or two but starts out junk free. It mostly depends on what "junk" is in your water supply to begin with. You can always run it through an ordinary coffee filter.
Not sure what you're referring to here. I've been using Photo-Flo for decades, none of my films have any 'junk' growing on them. I don't dilute Photo-Flo until I use it, and then dispose of it, and I can't imagine why anyone would dilute large amounts of it and hang onto the stuff.

Did I just not understand what you said?
__________________
Immanentizing the eschaton since 1987.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #11
rlouzan
Registered User
 
rlouzan's Avatar
 
rlouzan is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,501
I use one-shot chemistry, and I´ve seen spots on stored negatives that where imposible to remove with Lighter fluid, alcohol, ... since I switched to distilled water - problem solved!

Al is talking about a stored working solution.

Last edited by rlouzan : 12-31-2008 at 11:52.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #12
bmattock
Registered User
 
bmattock's Avatar
 
bmattock is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Detroit Area
Age: 58
Posts: 10,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlouzan View Post
I use one-shot chemistry, and Iīve seen spots on stored negatives that where imposible to remove with Lighter fluid, alcohol, ... since I switched to distilled water - problem solved!
Distilled water is always a good idea, especially depending upon what kind of tap water one has. There is no reason a person can't use Photo-Flo in distilled water, for that matter.

The purpose of treatments like Photo-Flo is to reduce surface tension of water, like soap does. This is supposed to cause the water to run off your negs when you hang them to dry, as opposed to forming beads. Once the beads dry, the minerals within them cause spots. If the water did not have a great deal of particulate matter floating in it to begin with, the spots are less of an issue.

I'm not sure how far I can go here without being 'argumentative' according to the great wakka-wakka in the sky. All I can report is that I use Photo-Flo and I do NOT have spots on my negs, nor do I have things growing on them. If you guys do, bummer, sorry, etc. However, the product is sold to reduce spots, not cause them, and it seems to have a good reputation in that regard. Whatever, do what you want. I will contribute no more to this thread, don't want to be 'argumentative'.
__________________
Immanentizing the eschaton since 1987.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #13
rlouzan
Registered User
 
rlouzan's Avatar
 
rlouzan is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,501
No problem, we are just chatting and exchanging experiences.
Some people will tell you to avoid using stop bath, to avoid pinpricks on negatives. The importante thing is if problems arise - there are solutions.

Happy New Year!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #14
marke
Registered User
 
marke's Avatar
 
marke is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Age: 61
Posts: 1,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlouzan View Post
No problem, we are just chatting and exchanging experiences.
Some people will tell you to avoid using stop bath, to avoid pinpricks on negatives. The importante thing is if problems arise - there are solutions.

Happy New Year!
Now this is something I've never experienced, either with or without using stop bath. I used it 35 years ago when I first began developing my own film, and never noticed pinpricks. But since I got back into it this past year, I haven't used stop bath once. That's just because I was told by the university teacher that I didn't really need it. And I haven't had a problem just using a water bath with constant agitation for one minute. So, is there actually any advantage to using a stop bath that I'm missing here?
__________________
- markE

Leica MP & M3
Summilux 50/f1.4, Summicron 35/f2.0ASPH, Elmar-M 50/f2.8, VC-CS 25/f4

Leica IIIfRD
Summitar 50/f2.0
http://www.pbase.com/marke
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #15
troym
Registered User
 
troym is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmattock View Post

I'm not sure how far I can go here without being 'argumentative' according to the great wakka-wakka in the sky. All I can report is that I use Photo-Flo and I do NOT have spots on my negs, nor do I have things growing on them. If you guys do, bummer, sorry, etc. However, the product is sold to reduce spots, not cause them, and it seems to have a good reputation in that regard. Whatever, do what you want. I will contribute no more to this thread, don't want to be 'argumentative'.
Al was talking about gunk growing in diluted Photo-Flo, which is something that has been reported before (I, like you, don't keep diluted Photo-Flo hanging around, so I have no experience with this phenomenon). He didn't say gunk grows on negatives treated with Photo-Flo.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #16
rlouzan
Registered User
 
rlouzan's Avatar
 
rlouzan is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,501
We are talking about zone system practitioners, who make really large prints - most photographers aint that picky.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marke View Post
Now this is something I've never experienced, either with or without using stop bath. I used it 35 years ago when I first began developing my own film, and never noticed pinpricks. But since I got back into it this past year, I haven't used stop bath once. That's just because I was told by the university teacher that I didn't really need it. And I haven't had a problem just using a water bath with constant agitation for one minute. So, is there actually any advantage to using a stop bath that I'm missing here?
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #17
troym
Registered User
 
troym is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by marke View Post
Now this is something I've never experienced, either with or without using stop bath. I used it 35 years ago when I first began developing my own film, and never noticed pinpricks. But since I got back into it this past year, I haven't used stop bath once. That's just because I was told by the university teacher that I didn't really need it. And I haven't had a problem just using a water bath with constant agitation for one minute. So, is there actually any advantage to using a stop bath that I'm missing here?
A stop bath is particularly useful with very short development times to end development immediately (and evenly).
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #18
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
 
JoeV's Avatar
 
JoeV is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 1,703
I've thought for a long time that the sudden pH change going from developer to stop bath was responsible for pinholes in film. This is especially a problem in thin-emulsion films like APHS graphic arts film, which I occasionally use in LF cameras.

So I started using a water-bath-only stop with APHS film, in a attempt at eliminating pinholes in the film; I still got them, intermittently.

Now I'm thinking the cause of film pinholes, at least with APHS, are temperature differences between the developer and stop bath. I've been pretty sloppy with temperatures in this process, since the film is ortho and developed-by-inspection in the tray, temperature was relatively unimportant from a development perspective.

~Joe
__________________
"If your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light"

Inventor of the Light Pipe Array
My Blog
My latest book
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #19
scottyb70
Registered User
 
scottyb70 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 211
Ok I am going to use distilled water when I do the rinse stage. Now what is it photoflo or no photoflo. I know my tap water has high minerals because the glass shower door are spotted and the spots are not from the soap.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-31-2008   #20
venchka
Registered User
 
venchka's Avatar
 
venchka is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 73
Posts: 6,212
Distilled water can't hurt. If you have it already, use it for the final rinse. Try Photo-Flo at a higher dilution that Kodak says. I think the bottle says 1:200. Try 1:300 or 1:400. I use my Photo-Flo rather weak.

Kodak Rapid-Fix comes in two bottles. The fix and the hardener. With modern films, mix the fixer concentrate per directions. Omit the hardener. If you use Efke or other old style emulsion films, you can add some hardener to the fixer. Personally, I use half of the hardener so I can use Efke 25 along with more modern films.

I agree with Al. I used to mix up 2 liters of Photo-Flo for 4x5 film. I would keep the mixture in a clear bottle. After a week or two there was junk floating in the Photo-Flo soution. Now I use it one shot.

Good luck.
__________________
Wayne
Deep in the darkest heart of the East Texas Rain forest.
Quote:
"Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing" Kimi Raikkonen
My Gallery
My Blog-Reborn
FlickrMyBookTwitSpaceFace
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-01-2009   #21
wintoid
Back to film
 
wintoid's Avatar
 
wintoid is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 1,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmattock View Post
I can't imagine why anyone would dilute large amounts of it and hang onto the stuff.
One of the "silver bullets" for me was realising that I could keep dilute Photoflo for a few months. I can't use tap water for the final rinse without getting all sorts of cr*p on my negatives. I was using 250ml of distilled water in the final rinse each time I did a film until I realised. Suddenly my distilled water usage went right down. It's not so much the expense, but storing large quantities of distilled water just for the final rinse was a pain. Now I keep much smaller bottles around, which helps with the marital bliss. It's also less wasteful, of course.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-01-2009   #22
rlouzan
Registered User
 
rlouzan's Avatar
 
rlouzan is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,501
Try both methods - and choose the one you like

If you use only distilled water as your final rinse, donīt squege your film or run your fingers through the emulsion - just let the film air dry in a dust-free environment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb70 View Post
Ok I am going to use distilled water when I do the rinse stage. Now what is it photoflo or no photoflo. I know my tap water has high minerals because the glass shower door are spotted and the spots are not from the soap.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-01-2009   #23
Larry Mclendon
-
 
Larry Mclendon is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 25
The reaction between the developer and the stop bath resulting in pinholes in the negatives was much more pronounced with thin emulsion films - think Pan-X - than with a thick emulsion film like Tri-X. It was when I shot a lot of Pan-X that I stopped using stop bath. A quick water rinse between developer and fixer works just as well. Sure there is a little carryover of developer into the fixer, but I haven't found it reduces the fixer life significantly.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-01-2009   #24
rlouzan
Registered User
 
rlouzan's Avatar
 
rlouzan is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,501
Joe,

I donīt think it is do to temperature changes - pinholes as you mention have to do with pH changes. Have you tried mixing all your chemicals in distilled water? do you use powder or liquid developer? one-shot chemistry? They could be salt deposits.

Regards,
RLouzan


Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeV View Post
I've thought for a long time that the sudden pH change going from developer to stop bath was responsible for pinholes in film. This is especially a problem in thin-emulsion films like APHS graphic arts film, which I occasionally use in LF cameras.

So I started using a water-bath-only stop with APHS film, in a attempt at eliminating pinholes in the film; I still got them, intermittently.

Now I'm thinking the cause of film pinholes, at least with APHS, are temperature differences between the developer and stop bath. I've been pretty sloppy with temperatures in this process, since the film is ortho and developed-by-inspection in the tray, temperature was relatively unimportant from a development perspective.

~Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-01-2009   #25
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
 
Pherdinand's Avatar
 
Pherdinand is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: by the river called the Gender
Age: 42
Posts: 7,819
I do reuse photo-flo (or,actually the amaloco version of the wetting agent) that is diluted in distilled water.
Not because it would be expensive - just because i am lazy to mix a new one every time, AND, i always forget to buy new distilled water.
I've never seen any junk or gunk growing or gathering in the clear plastic bottle that keeps my diluted photo-flo. The only thing that happens sometimes, is the liquid gets pinkish due to the antihalation layer still around in the film.
I've never ever had a drying problem since i am using wetting agent in distilled water.
__________________
Happy New Year, Happy New Continent!
eye contact eye
My RFF Foolery
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-03-2009   #26
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
 
titrisol's Avatar
 
titrisol is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: RDU / Quito / LaLa Land
Age: 48
Posts: 1,318
HC110 is a good developer to start with
Check the covington innovations page on HC110 for almost all you wanted to know but were afraid to ask
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/
__________________
When I think back of all the crappy pictures I've taken, it's a wonder I can see at all......
APX It gives us the nicer grays/It gives the cleanes whites/Makes you think all the world’s a sunny day, oh yeah/I got a nikon camera/I love to take a photograph
MAMA DON'T TAKE MY APX AWAY........
Sorry Paul Simon


My gallery
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:33.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.