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7Artisans lenses - no such thing as a free lunch
Old 09-11-2019   #1
Huss
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7Artisans lenses - no such thing as a free lunch

I have a bunch of 7Artisan lenses - 50 1.1 x2, 35mmf2, 28mm 1.4 and love the results that they give especially at their price point. But I like to give a fair critique of what I own and use. No fan boi here! And what I noticed with all these lenses is that they needed their focus corrected (easy enough using my digi Leica M), but then when that was done they all focused past infinity, so I could not use the infinity hard stop. This also makes it much harder to zone focus with these lenses, as the scale does not match up correctly.
I found a mention on line that once you set your focus correctly, you can then loosen the screws that hold on the focus ring, rotate the ring so that infinity is at the hard stop (making sure not to rotate the actual focus underneath the ring), then tighten everything back down.
Personally I'm not going to go through that as I am happy focusing accurately using my RF patch and so don't want to mess around with anything. But it does suggest that one reason the price on these lenses is so good is because in essence final assembly/tuning is left to the end user!
Right now I'm using the 35mm f2 lens on my 'beater' M4-2, taking it places where I'm too scared to take my pricey Leica glass.. kinda enjoying getting excellent results w/o worry! But the 28 1.4 is my current stand out. Awesome glass and gets me shots my way more expensive Leica 28 2.8 Asph cannot.

I found it interesting that no reviews online mention this.... but talking to reviewers 'privately' have confirmed that they also notice this behaviour.
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Old 09-11-2019   #2
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Absent a digital Leica M, is there an easy way to calibrate the focus on the 7A lenses? Or are all the solutions a bit kludgy, like using an appropriately sized piece of ground glass and a loupe with the back door open?
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Old 09-11-2019   #3
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I have limited experience, having seen just one. I was selling my MP (film) & the fellow who was buying it showed up with an Artisans 50 1.1. He put it on the body and then told me the rangefinder was out. I put on a couple of Leica and Skopar lenses....all bang on. It was exactly as you describe Huss, the lens focused past infinity.
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Old 09-11-2019   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deardorff38 View Post
I have limited experience, having seen just one. I was selling my MP (film) & the fellow who was buying it showed up with an Artisans 50 1.1. He put it on the body and then told me the rangefinder was out. I put on a couple of Leica and Skopar lenses....all bang on. It was exactly as you describe Huss, the lens focused past infinity.
The 7A will focus correctly if you focus it using the RF. If you crank it to the hard stop, then it will focus past infinity. Your prosepective buyer was unaware..

Don't you find it intere$ting that not a $ingle web$ite that wa$ given thi$ len$ to te$t mentioned thi$?
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Old 09-12-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The 7A will focus correctly if you focus it using the RF. If you crank it to the hard stop, then it will focus past infinity. Your prosepective buyer was unaware..

Don't you find it intere$ting that not a $ingle web$ite that wa$ given thi$ len$ to te$t mentioned thi$?
that's weird indeed
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Old 09-12-2019   #6
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I've used the 50mm f/1.1 extensively over the last week on an M-E (220) and found that with any part including bright sky in the viewfinder the exposure meter will be severely thrown off and underexpose ground-based subjects when using Aperture Priority.

Love it as a portrait lens, but for groups and landscapes it's best to stick with full manual control.
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Old 09-12-2019   #7
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I see 7A has announced a full-frame 35mm f1.4 manual focus lens for Sony E, $199 pre-order price, wonder if an M-mount version will show up later.
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Old 09-12-2019   #8
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I found the 28mm f/1.4 to be too big to be practical on a digital or film M body.

I kept it because it actually matches well on my Sony A7II body, with an adapter. Also avoids any focus problems because all the focus is TTL.
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Old 09-12-2019   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalK View Post
I found the 28mm f/1.4 to be too big to be practical on a digital or film M body.

I kept it because it actually matches well on my Sony A7II body, with an adapter. Also avoids any focus problems because all the focus is TTL.

The same can be said for Leica's 28 1.4, or the Zeiss ZM 35 1.4

RF cameras really are better to handle with 'small' lenses. But the times when you need larger apertures necessitates sacrifices.
I have both the 7A 28 1.4 and ZM 35 1.4, and both are fantastic lenses. The ZM however focussed perfectly out of the box. But it was $1500 vs $400.
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Old 09-12-2019   #10
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Yah. They can't all be the Nokton.
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Old 09-12-2019   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
Absent a digital Leica M, is there an easy way to calibrate the focus on the 7A lenses? Or are all the solutions a bit kludgy, like using an appropriately sized piece of ground glass and a loupe with the back door open?
It's too difficult to try and focus off an improvised ground glass. I ended up adjusting my focus (35mm f2) on film... With the chart it was fairly easy.

Take a couple initial shots, clip off film in the dark bag, dev 5 mins, fix one and then slap the wet negative on a window and look at it with a loupe. It took two attempts and was then spot on.

Mine was back focusing so an eye focused close up would be focused on the cheekbone. I ended up moving the focus helicoid/ramp about 1mm or the width of a fine tip sharpie marker.
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Old 09-12-2019   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
Absent a digital Leica M, is there an easy way to calibrate the focus on the 7A lenses? Or are all the solutions a bit kludgy, like using an appropriately sized piece of ground glass and a loupe with the back door open?
You can mail me your lens and I will do it for you. Or borrow/rent an M. You could even do it in the LeicaStore in SF!
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Old 09-13-2019   #13
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Most likely nobody has mentioned it because if you described it correctly... it is very simple operation.
But if it is not mentioned in the manual; then it is just sloppy.
How big is overrun pass infinity? Five mm or two?
Photo will show if we could determine it as something serious or just cosmetic.
Couple of mm means nothing at scale focus on infinity or elsewhere.

I can’t take any huge 28 lens seriously. 7a 28 1.4 size is evf, external VF size.
So, i’m waiting for their 21 1.5
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Old 09-24-2019   #14
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With the copy of the 7Art 28mm f1.4 that I have, I'm finding two errors: 1) a slight back focus of approx 1cm when focussed at 0.7m and 2) an inability to focus at infinity, according to the rangefinder patch, since the focus ring hits the physical end stop prematurely. The infinity problem is confirmed by the resulting images being out of focus; the target being at least 500m distant (incidentally, I'm using a calibrated M240).
Do you think tweaking the back focus at minimum focus will fix the infinity problem?
Yes, it does appear that 7A expect the users to perform the final set up.
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Old 09-24-2019   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The same can be said for Leica's 28 1.4, or the Zeiss ZM 35 1.4

RF cameras really are better to handle with 'small' lenses. But the times when you need larger apertures necessitates sacrifices.
Banged into a guy on the weekend who had a 28mm f/1.4 7A mounted on an M5 and it was heavy, but really nicely balanced.
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Old 09-25-2019   #16
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I don't get how you can adjust the focus ramp of the helicoid for BOTH near focus and infinity. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WQXVWQ8htH4 It sounds to me you can optimise one or the other, but not both.

I'm much more likely to use the lens for things (or people) that are near, than far away. But the inability to focus at infinity, eg 500m away, is somewhat irksome.
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Old 09-27-2019   #17
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I think it is great that can adjust the focus so easily with 7Artisans lenses - uf necessary, that is.

My 1.1/50: precise focus out of the box
My 2.0/35: precise focus out of the box
My 1.4/28: see below...
I will see how the 1.25/75 behaves soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
With the copy of the 7Art 28mm f1.4 that I have, I'm finding two errors: 1) a slight back focus of approx 1cm when focussed at 0.7m and 2) an inability to focus at infinity, according to the rangefinder patch, since the focus ring hits the physical end stop prematurely. The infinity problem is confirmed by the resulting images being out of focus; the target being at least 500m distant (incidentally, I'm using a calibrated M240).
Do you think tweaking the back focus at minimum focus will fix the infinity problem?
Yes, it does appear that 7A expect the users to perform the final set up.
My 1.4/28 showed the same issues. But after adjusting the focus correctly, a very straightforward and quick process, it works like a charm!

(On my M240, M8 and on the Sony A7II of course.)
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Old 09-27-2019   #18
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Generally, all the 7Artisans lenses have really surprised me!
Excellent built and once adjusted correctly a good performance, comparable to my Voigtländer lenses (28, 35 and 75mm).
Yes, a Leica lens is better, but at what? Ten times the price?

If you want perfect performance, you have to pay for it.
If you can live with an 8/10 or 9/10 performance, the 7Artisans are for you.
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Old 09-27-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent View Post
I think it is great that can adjust the focus so easily with 7Artisans lenses - uf necessary, that is.

My 1.1/50: precise focus out of the box
My 2.0/35: precise focus out of the box
My 1.4/28: see below...
I will see how the 1.25/75 behaves soon.

My 1.4/28 showed the same issues. But after adjusting the focus correctly, a very straightforward and quick process, it works like a charm!

(On my M240, M8 and on the Sony A7II of course.)
Thanks Kent.
If I understand what you said, you adjusted the near focus only and this had the effect of correcting both the near and infinity issues together. Is that so?

I have been a bit lazy thinking the lens is good enough, but I'm encouraged to give it a go. After all it should be spot on of course.
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Old 11-22-2019   #20
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Free or not, but where is 21 f1.5? Or 35 f1.4. Is it arrested development now?
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Old 11-22-2019   #21
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you get what you pay for.
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Old 11-22-2019   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
you get what you pay for.
Of course, if not it's called stealing or a gift.

What you don't always get is value commensurate to the outlay, and when it comes to that, it becomes a subjective equation.
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Old 11-22-2019   #23
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Film or digital, rangefinder or SLR the fact remains: you get what you pay for.
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Old 11-22-2019   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
...Right now I'm using the 35mm f2 lens on my 'beater' M4-2, taking it places where I'm too scared to take my pricey Leica glass...
Does your 35 mount properly without interfering with the lens release button on the M4-2? The flange on the 35 depresses the button when its mounted on my M4-2 so the lens doesnt actually lock.


My 50mm F1.1 was good out of the box but fell out of focus within a month. I had to readjust and tighten the adjustment screws.
My 35mm F2 was good out of the box and has stayed good.
I purchased the 75mm F1.25 but it seems to be taking a trip around the world according to the DHL tracking number. I bought directly through 7Artisans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Free or not, but where is 21 f1.5? Or 35 f1.4. Is it arrested development now?
Looks like they're being made under the "TTArtisans" moniker.
https://www.ttartisan.com/cpjs
both 7Artisans and TTArtisans are made by "DJ-Optical".
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Old 11-22-2019   #25
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The 35 f2 does not have clearance issues on my M4-2
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Old 11-22-2019   #26
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you get what you pay for.
Today I bought milk, eggs and cheese.
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Old 11-22-2019   #27
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Thank you! Still no 21 1.5, yet.
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Old 11-22-2019   #28
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Just found this thread. It's not just the M mount lenses. I obtained a 25mm f1.8, as new with all packaging from a private party for my EM10. Had to shim (by trial and error) about .009 in. to bring the focusing at infinity out to the infinity mark on the lens. However the rest of the distance scale printed on the focusing ring is completely inaccurate. Not just a little off, but way, way off. The numbers appear to be screen printed on the focusing ring so I could see a scenario where a template for another of their lenses was mistakenly used on this lens.
Now that infinity is set I'll be spending an interesting afternoon making up a corrected scale, on paper, that I will tape to the focusing ring. Cannot be perfect, but should be good enough to scale focus if stopped down to f8 or more.
My lens also turns past the infinity mark.
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Old 11-22-2019   #29
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I also had the 25 1.8 on my OMD 10 mk2. i’m not sure who actually makes
that lens though as I have seen it under several different brand labels.
It was ok but I traded it for the Oly 25 1.8 which is stunning.
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Old 11-22-2019   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
Absent a digital Leica M, is there an easy way to calibrate the focus on the 7A lenses? Or are all the solutions a bit kludgy, like using an appropriately sized piece of ground glass and a loupe with the back door open?
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Old 11-22-2019   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I also had the 25 1.8 on my OMD 10 mk2. i’m not sure who actually makes
that lens though as I have seen it under several different brand labels.
It was ok but I traded it for the Oly 25 1.8 which is stunning.
Out of my budget now, but perhaps after I unload a lot of unused photo gear. If I can only get one m4:3 Olympus lens that will be the one.
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Old 11-22-2019   #32
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I just received one of the 35mm 1.4's @ 189.00 with a imitation leica style hood in Sony E mount. and yes it will focus past Inf. at the stop. But inside I am very happy with the results in low light. It seems to live on my A7s right now, but it's a new lens. If i want sharpness I do also have a old Ver1 summicron I use mostly old M lenses on my Sony. The only cheap feeling on the lens is the f stop ring is plastic and a little loose.
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Old 11-22-2019   #33
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I have one 7A lens; 50/1.1.
It is a bargain for what you get for under $300 in M mount.
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Old 11-23-2019   #34
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Here are my two excellent J-3 lenses for Leicas, one with Amedeo adapter... I've been thinking about buying a 7A 50 f1.1, but what for? Because it is larger and bulkier? An even shallower depth of field? Is the difference between 1.1 and 1.5 worth mentioning at all, having in mind the high ISO capabilities of modern sensors? One can buy lot of eggs, milk and cheese for 300$. The only justification for buying such a lens is hidden in a clever marketing move - if you pay 300$, you can get the CREATIVE opportunity to fiddle with close focus and infinity.

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Old 11-23-2019   #35
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I was curious about 7A lenses and this is why I bought one lens to try it out. I still managed to provide for my family eggs, milk, and cheese. I get your point, though.
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Old 11-23-2019   #36
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No hard feelings, Raid! I myself was close to buying one
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Old 11-23-2019   #37
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I also thought about the 50 but since I have way too many 50's as it is right now went with the 35 1.4 to dip my toe into 7a lenses
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7Artisans lenses - no such thing as a free lunch
Old 11-23-2019   #38
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7Artisans lenses - no such thing as a free lunch

Ive been using the 35 f2 for almost a year now. It might be the best $300 I ever spent.
I have a hard time finding fault with it. The images it produces are great. The build quality is better than I expected, and the focus was dead on right out of the box.
It has been more or less glued to my M6 since the day it arrived and has been to Europe with me twice.

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Old 11-23-2019   #39
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Quote:
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The 35 f2 does not have clearance issues on my M4-2
Strange, perhaps they changed the lens a bit since I bought it.
I know the 50 1.1 ended up notching a small part of the lens to clear the release buttons.
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Old 11-29-2019   #40
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Quote:
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I don't get how you can adjust the focus ramp of the helicoid for BOTH near focus and infinity....It sounds to me you can optimise one or the other, but not both.

Perhaps lenses differ from one to the other but I agree with what Ricoh says here.


As delighted as I have been with my pair of 50mm f1.1 lenses my experience with a recently acquired 75mm f1.25 was terrible not only for the very reasons mentioned above but also because of the horrendous amount of focus-shift as the aperture size was decreased. Having had terrible results in casual tests just after the lens arrived I attached to to a tripod-mounted M Digital in the studio and carried out some controlled tests. To cut a very long-winded story short once calibrated for near-focus duties the lens couldn't focus at infinity. And, needless to say, vice-versa.


Furthermore - and in some ways more worrisome - when the lens was calibrated to focus accurately (either close-up or for infinity) wide-open it back-focussed horrendously once stopped-down meaning that - obviously - without being used stopped-down in a live-view situation (at shooting aperture) it would be impossible to have accurate focus when 'correctly adjusted' on a Leica M.



I really was greatly disappointed as I really wanted to love the lens. Got a full refund which I put towards buying a Leica 75 and couldn't be happier with the new (used) lens. OK; I lose 2 stops in speed but the D-o-F and o-o-f results are sublime and wide open the sharpness is spectacular.


I'd be more than happy to try a different sample of the 7a 75mm - mine might well have been a Dog - but perhaps 7artisans isn't quite there in terms of quality control these days?


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