threads on M4 (1970) baseplate?
Old 11-01-2018   #1
ampguy
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threads on M4 (1970) baseplate?

My used M4 from about 70 s/n 12545.. just before the MDs, seems to have a 1/4" threading, or narrower with no insert, wondering if this is the original baseplate, or one from another M?

The way I found out, is I just received a 14405 grip, and the grip seems to have a 3/8" screw, appears and was listed by the Japanese shop as original, but perhaps it was modified?

I guess I will have to try an aftermarket side grip with 1/4" or did Leica make one with a different part #?
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Old 11-01-2018   #2
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If you go to the link below, a PDF of the M4 manual will be downloaded.

On page 5 it reveals that the tripod bushing is 1/4 inch. This indicates that there was at least one version of the M4 with that diameter tripod screw so its as likely as not that your base plate is original. I do not know off hand when the change was made. My old M3 of course had the larger bushing but when I got it, it had an adapter screwed into it to facilitate use with later accessories.

But I know that later black M4s had black chrome bodies instead of painted enamel. Its possible this was another change made at the same time but its also possible that the change came earlier maybe with the M2 - the Leicaphiles will no doubt know this detail. It is also possible (??) that the 14405 grip was available with alternative screw fitting for different Leica M bodies. I don't know this detail either and am guessing but it is logical. I had an aftermarket grip on my M3 and it worked and looked just fine. It had as I recall the smaller 1/4 thread which I used on the M3 with the 3/8 adapter in place.

"AFTERTHOUGHT: If the 14405 grip came standard with a 1/4 screw could it be possible that the 1/4 to 3/8 adapter thread that I mentioned above might still be mounted on the screw in your 14405 grip when you bought it? It might be possible if you check closely. Usually this adapter is found inside the hole in the camera baseplate, but there is no reason one supposes why it could not have been on the thread on the grip instead. If so you should be able to hold it with a suitably protected pair of pliers and take it off.... maybe give this a try."

http://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_m4.pdf
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Thanks!
Old 11-01-2018   #3
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Thanks!

Makes sense now. I recall perusing listings on ebay, and noticing that not all 14405's ads mentioned supporting the M4, so I guess some earlier, and then maybe later models use the larger 3/8, or maybe there were 14405s that came with different screw sizes.

I will just stash this in my parts drawer as I'll likely have a use for it some other time, or will list for sale the next time I do an ad. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
If you go to the link below, a PDF of the M4 manual will be downloaded.

On page 5 it reveals that the tripod bushing is 1/4 inch. This indicates that there was at least one version of the M4 with that diameter tripod screw so its as likely as not that your base plate is original. I do not know off hand when the change was made. My old M3 of course had the larger bushing but when I got it, it had an adapter screwed into it to facilitate use with later accessories.

But I know that later black M4s had black chrome bodies instead of painted enamel. Its possible this was another change made at the same time but its also possible that the change came earlier maybe with the M2 - the Leicaphiles will no doubt know this detail. It is also possible that the 14405 grip was available with alternative screw fitting for different Leica M bodies. I don't know this detail either and am guessing but it is logical.

http://www.cameramanuals.org/leica_pdf/leica_m4.pdf
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Old 11-01-2018   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ampguy View Post
Makes sense now. I recall perusing listings on ebay, and noticing that not all 14405's ads mentioned supporting the M4, so I guess some earlier, and then maybe later models use the larger 3/8, or maybe there were 14405s that came with different screw sizes.

I will just stash this in my parts drawer as I'll likely have a use for it some other time, or will list for sale the next time I do an ad. Thanks.
Check my after thought just added to my original post and reproduced below. It's another possibility.

"AFTERTHOUGHT: If the 14405 grip came standard with a 1/4 screw could it be possible that the 1/4 to 3/8 adapter thread that I mentioned above might still be mounted on the screw in your 14405 grip when you bought it? It might be possible if you check closely. Usually this adapter is found inside the hole in the camera baseplate, but there is no reason one supposes why it could not have been on the thread on the grip instead. If so you should be able to hold it with a suitably protected pair of pliers and take it off.... maybe give this a try."
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Old 11-02-2018   #5
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3/8 vs 1/4 is European vs UK&USA

Earlier Leicas are available in both. Japanese seem to have gone for 1/4. I wouldn't be surprised to find a Leica of any age in 3/8 but others may have definitive info.
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Old 11-02-2018   #6
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It's not clear by looking at the screw on the grip, if it has an adapter from 1/4 3/8, in any case it's not keyed for easy removal. I'm wondering if Leica used the adapter method for awhile, and then began using 1/4" and 3/8" dedicated screws, as that should be a more solid grip.

Also, if there is an adapter on the screw itself, not sure if a previous owner would have used locktite or some other strong permanent type adhesive.

Thanks for the tips. Will take a closer look tonight.
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