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Nikon RF This forum is dedicated to Nikon Rangefinders: the Nikon One, Nikon M, Nikon S, Nikon S2, Nikon SP, Nikon S3, Nikon S4, and Nikon S3M, Nikon S3 2000, Nikon SP 2005. Plus the ONLY production camera ever made in Nikon Rangefinder mount WITH TTL metering ... the Voigtlander Bessa R2S.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #41
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In digital!
As long as itīs a manual focus line of lenses i am in.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #42
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Coming back to the topic, I doubt hat Nikon or Canon will ever produce film cameras again, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon comes sooner or later with a RF styled Z6/7. probably inheriting some design elements from the Nikon S.


Juergen

Nikon still sells the F6... they still have film advance levers and sprockets in the warehouse.
Film did not go away.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #43
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You forget that without this 'foolishness' you couldn't buy a used M2/3/4/6 nowadays because at some point in the past people were 'foolish' enough to pay a lot of money when they were new. Besides, without this 'foolish' behaviour a lot of companies (and jobs btw.) would'nt exist any more. So you should better think twice before you call this people foolish even when I get your intial thought especially whn comparing the M2 with the M-A.



Juergen

Exactly. if i really want a new film Leica i can buy a new film Leica. Thatīs awesome. It costs 2k more than a used M6. 2k can be a lot of money and i respect anyone who cannot afford a 4.5k camera but that sum against all the film processing billls in one year is not an absurd.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #44
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Before Nikon make any more RF cameras I'd rather have them making scanners again.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #45
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I am talking about something a bit different from what they did. It would not be a de luxe reenactment but a new camera like a Zeiss Ikon ZM. Something that fits like an FM 3 in the hierarchy. An FM3 w/ a rangefinder. That could cost 900 dollars.
AE, manual focus, lightweight, rangefinder.. and manual lenses.

The problem is, is everyone has their own list of features they'd want to see in this new camera. You want a camera with AE, but then the next guy won't buy it because it uses batteries which might die and it has a circuit board inside of it which might become unrepairable in thirty years. And someone else won't buy it because they wanted an F reissue instead. The F SLR has its fans too you know...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #46
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Based on the word of guys who CLA Leicas. Based on ugly chrome, silly logos, zinc instead of brass and crappy VFs which flare, unnacceptable in my standards.
I think thats a bit over the top!
Nothing wrong with the M6 vf or using Zinc.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #47
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The problem is, is everyone has their own list of features they'd want to see in this new camera. You want a camera with AE, but then the next guy won't buy it because it uses batteries which might die and it has a circuit board inside of it which might become unrepairable in thirty years. And someone else won't buy it because they wanted an F reissue instead. The F SLR has its fans too you know...
And I want a Leicaflex SL3!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #48
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Nikon still sells the F6... they still have film advance levers and sprockets in the warehouse.
Film did not go away.
As far as I know, they sell but don't produce the F6 any more. And from film advance levers and sprockets to a working film camera is quite a step. Taking also the current prices for used Nikon S cameras into account I can't see that the Japanese controlling finds any way to justify such a development.

Agree with your film statement.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #49
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I think thats a bit over the top!
Nothing wrong with the M6 vf or using Zinc.

A VF that flares?



I donīt like the M6 for other minor reasons but a vf which does not perform as well as other leicas is wrong.
So you pay 1.6k for an M6 and still have to upgrade the VF.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #50
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Originally Posted by mod2001 View Post
Coming back to the topic, I doubt hat Nikon or Canon will ever produce film cameras again, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon comes sooner or later with a RF styled Z6/7. probably inheriting some design elements from the Nikon S.


Juergen
I'd love to see that, but I think it's similar odds to me winning the lottery...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #51
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As far as I know, they sell but don't produce the F6 any more.
That is wrong.
The F6 is in production. It is officially listed on Nikon's current product page. If a Nikon product is discontinued, it is listed on Nikon's discontinued list (and you won't find the F6 there). Just recently several journalists have visited the Nikon Sendai factory where the F6 is made and have seen the F6 line.
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=166042
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #52
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''Pigs might fly''. Nikon has struggled to stay alive. I doubt it will experiment with film cameras to keep RFF members happy.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #53
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Before Nikon make any more RF cameras I'd rather have them making scanners again.
We have a winner!
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #54
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There are tons of classic cameras about. I'd rather buy one and pay for service. Or buy a Millennium S3 for $1,500 and be good to go.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #55
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What if...

...Nikon made a reissue of the F?
Their perfect opportunity to do this was with the Df. Their pre-release teasers hinted as much. But, they punted with a plastic fantastic button pimpled thing instead. Afraid to be too bold. I’m sure they had their reasons for not going all the way, not least their experience with the S2/SP reissues which were acts of beautiful, total nutcase corporate commitment. A rarity in today’s world, they seemed chastened, so we got the Df we got. Nice in its own way due to the sensor, but hardly soul stirring. Half a loaf.

On the other hand, the upcoming Noct Nikkor .095 seems in the same gonzo crazy, pedal to the metal, vein as the 2005 SP (so wish I’d bought one three years ago when they were cheap). The people who won’t buy that upcoming lens are the same people who didn’t buy the rangefinder reissues, for exactly the same reasons, costs too much and it’s not “practical”. Which, I guess, it’s not. Neither was Brigitte Bardot.

Gotta go get more coffee.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #56
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While Larry fetches coffee, I will introduce an amusing notion that is probably of equal plausibility to some of the soap bubbles being blown out of little personal magic wands here:

Nikon not only spends its reserves on a One More Time retro device to please the old guys (disclosure: I’m 66) whose numbers are diminishing daily plus recruit some ridiculously self-important blogospherical metro hipsters but but but *also* double down on a major media campaign—meant, absolutely to attract all active and latent Leica haters!—involving David Byrne and if possible the rest of the Heads from the Stop Making Sense era! Instead of reeling and tottering in a fat suit, Byrne will be dressed as a giant Nikon SP 21C (we have to rebrand the century too). Here’s the jingle:

Leica killer
Qu’est que c’est?
Buh buh buh buh
Buh buh buh buh buh buh
Gonna Nikon-kon-kon-kon
the night away

....followed by Burning All the Film, Nikon Is Where I Wanna Be But I Guess I’m Already There, etc etc.

What a great idea! Nikon are you listening? No? Why are your fingers in your ears?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #57
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Originally Posted by rhl-oregon View Post

Nikon not only spends its reserves on a One More Time retro device to please the old guys

Nope. There is a new generation of film users.

Itīs not opinon or wishes. Just check the prices of film cameras now and compare to 3 or 4 yrs ago.
The scene has changed.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #58
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The problem is, is everyone has their own list of features they'd want to see in this new camera. You want a camera with AE, but then the next guy won't buy it because it uses batteries which might die and it has a circuit board inside of it which might become unrepairable in thirty years. And someone else won't buy it because they wanted an F reissue instead. The F SLR has its fans too you know...



This hits the nail on the head. No one single camera could appeal to everyone in the market for a new CaNikon RF, so economic viability suffers.
In addition, no-one has the tooling for the mechanical stuff. You can get electronics, lenses, casings manufactured in China on short notice (not that CaNikon would need them from third parties, but in-house they must have a similar situation), but mechanical shutters and rangefinders need testing and tooling that probably no-one can do ad hoc nowadays. So prices would be higher than even in the old days with their economies of scale.
Most promising would be an approach with only the RF newly designed or reverse engineered, using a modern shutter, F6 film advance mechanism (if Nikon did it) and casing from modern materials. (But the traditionalists wouldn't buy such a beast.)

And what rhl-oregon suggests, of course.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #59
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''Pigs might fly''. Nikon has struggled to stay alive. I doubt it will experiment with film cameras to keep RFF members happy.

Fuji experimented w/ nostalgia when designing their X line and it worked.


Cosina experimented w/ RF lenses and it is working.



Itīs not about RFF or me or a couple other old people. itīs about a market for film users. Itīs not dead. Not for 5k cameras maybe ... but a 1k film camera from Nikon, built like an FM, would sell.
If Nikon can fit it on their production line or not is another matter.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #60
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Nope. There is a new generation of film users.
You're right. But most of them are using K1000s, Nikon FEs, and Canon AE1s. Some of them maybe a Pentax 6x7 or older Rolleiflex. The high-priced cameras are often going to collectors who don't use them, or older guys who couldn't afford them when they came out.

It's a pipe-dream but you seem intent on rationalizing it. Have fun, but, ain't gonna happen.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #61
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This hits the nail on the head. No one single camera could appeal to everyone in the market for a new CaNikon RF, so economic viability suffers.
In addition, no-one has the tooling for the mechanical stuff. You can get electronics, lenses, casings manufactured in China on short notice (not that CaNikon would need them from third parties, but in-house they must have a similar situation), but mechanical shutters and rangefinders need testing and tooling that probably no-one can do ad hoc nowadays. So prices would be higher than even in the old days with their economies of scale.
Most promising would be an approach with only the RF newly designed or reverse engineered, using a modern shutter, F6 film advance mechanism (if Nikon did it) and casing from modern materials. (But the traditionalists wouldn't buy such a beast.)

And what rhl-oregon suggests, of course.

I believe a new design could work. NOt a remake of a classic to compete w/ the old cameras still being sold. Remakes are way more expensive.

Cosina did it. Cosina keeps releasing new lenses without David Byrne.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #62
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You're right. But most of them are using K1000s, Nikon FEs, and Canon AE1s. Some of them maybe a Pentax 6x7 or older Rolleiflex. The high-priced cameras are often going to collectors who don't use them, or older guys who couldn't afford them when they came out.

It's a pipe-dream but you seem intent on rationalizing it. Have fun, but, ain't gonna happen.

All i am saying is: Cosina did it. The giants, Fuji, Nikon and Canon, are ignoring this new albeit small market. If it keeps growing, someone will make a move.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #63
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Nope. There is a new generation of film users.

Itīs not opinon or wishes. Just check the prices of film cameras now and compare to 3 or 4 yrs ago.
The scene has changed.

The "new generation" of film users is as much interested in using vintage gear as they are in film itself. In other words, a clean 40-to-60 year-old camera will appeal to them sooner than a brand-new one would be even if the price were the same. And it won't be.... A clean-sheet new film RF in 2019? It'll be expensive.


Maybe Cosina can be coaxed into re-starting SLR production. Perhaps a new Nikon FM10? That is FAR more likely than Nikon creating something else on its own. But the problem with a "new" FM10 is sales would be undercut by the thousands available every day on Ebay, for very cheap.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #64
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The "new generation" of film users is as much interested in using vintage gear as they are in film itself. In other words, a clean 40-to-60 year-old camera will appeal to them sooner than a brand-new one would be even if the price were the same. And it won't be.... A clean-sheet new film RF in 2019? It'll be expensive.


Maybe Cosina can be coaxed into re-starting SLR production. Perhaps a new Nikon FM10? That is FAR more likely than Nikon creating something else on its own. But the problem with a "new" FM10 is sales would be undercut by the thousands available every day on Ebay, for very cheap.

Bessas and the ZI ZM keep selling. A Zeiss Ikon which is a new camera sells for 1.8k. Bessas are new. NOt a 40 yr old camera.

Itīs the RF camera. NOt the SLR.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #65
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Yes, of course. If your ultimate goal is to keep Leica in business, then knock yourself out.
I guess your ultimate goal is to reap the benefits of other people’s hard work.

You wouldnt have your Leica if Leica didnt make it. And Leica dont make used cameras...
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #66
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That is wrong.
The F6 is in production. It is officially listed on Nikon's current product page. If a Nikon product is discontinued, it is listed on Nikon's discontinued list (and you won't find the F6 there). Just recently several journalists have visited the Nikon Sendai factory where the F6 is made and have seen the F6 line.
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=166042

Noted :-)


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Old 1 Week Ago   #67
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And I want a Leicaflex SL3!
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Originally Posted by colker View Post
Bessas and the ZI ZM keep selling. A Zeiss Ikon which is a new camera sells for 1.8k. Bessas are new. NOt a 40 yr old camera.

Itīs the RF camera. NOt the SLR.


*I* insist, *I* want a Leicaflex SL3!

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Old 1 Week Ago   #68
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*I* insist, *I* want a Leicaflex SL3!


No, no, no, you're all wrong! A new Spotmatic, uses M42 lenses, has AE and takes a modern battery. It'll sell like hotcakes!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #69
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A slim camera similar to the Pentax LX but as a rangefinder camera. I never got an LX, and I want one now as a RF camera.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #70
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The "new generation" of film users is as much interested in using vintage gear as they are in film itself. In other words, a clean 40-to-60 year-old camera will appeal to them sooner than a brand-new one would be even if the price were the same. And it won't be.... A clean-sheet new film RF in 2019? It'll be expensive.
I used to think that too but from what i’ve seen at my local film shop in LA the majority of kids are using plastic fantastic cameras whether af slrs or p&s. basically anything they get their hands on. it’s the film student kids that are using traditional manual cameras.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #71
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All i am saying is: Cosina did it. The giants, Fuji, Nikon and Canon, are ignoring this new albeit small market. If it keeps growing, someone will make a move.
Yes, almost 20 years ago, when the 2.7mp Nikon D1 had just been released and "pro" digital was in its infancy. And now they don't make cameras anymore, because...there isn't a market for it.

All of their lens design now has been refocused towards mirrorless cameras and the last remaining RF producer, since for most folks after one buys a Leica digital RF they don't have much money left for the Leitz lenses.

No matter what, a new film camera from any of those folks will be expensive, much more expensive than many/most good film cameras available all day long on eBay or your local thrift store for $20 - $100. And lenses...well unless you use a mount/system that completely shuts out the millions upon millions of cheap, used, and still good lenses out there, no one is going to buy any, since they either have a closet full or again can buy them used for pennies on the dollar.

Let me remind you that modern lens design is complete overkill for 35mm film, save for the rare person shooting silly high-resolution, re-purposed microfilm with special developers so they can get basically mediocre medium-format quality.

At the end of the day, I will say that camera manufacturers need to do something to revitalize sales. Everyone is hopping on the mirrorless train now but it's still basically the same camera in a different form-factor that they've been making for a decade. More megapixels and obscure features is not the answer, IMO. Folks are realizing this and not upgrading nearly as often as used to be common.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #72
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Cosina experimented w/ RF lenses and it is working.


Itīs not about RFF or me or a couple other old people. itīs about a market for film users. Itīs not dead. Not for 5k cameras maybe ... but a 1k film camera from Nikon, built like an FM, would sell.
I'm sure the head bartender might offer up some sobering facts about how many years some of those single, small production run RF lenses sat on the shelf before anyone bought them. Nice lenses, and a valiant effort, but if you are the manufacturer, it's a problem. Cosina knows exactly what the market is, they learned the hard way, and there's a good reason they are not pumping out a steady stream of Nikon rf mount lenses. And won't unless there is some kind of sake binge some evening.

"but a 1k film camera from Nikon, built like an FM"

You try doing this and let us know how it works out. LOL. I thought I was unrealistic. Reminds me of that old saw about the new manufacturer who wanted to revolutionize the widget market. He was going to sell widgets for $1,000 and his fixed production costs per unit were $1,400. When asked how he intended to make the business profitable he said, "Volume!"

"Itīs not dead." No, but it's looking a bit pale.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #73
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Quote:
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*I* insist, *I* want a Leicaflex SL3!
No, no, no, you're all wrong! A new Spotmatic, uses M42 lenses, has AE and takes a modern battery. It'll sell like hotcakes!
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A slim camera similar to the Pentax LX but as a rangefinder camera. I never got an LX, and I want one now as a RF camera.
No, no, NOOOOO! You are wrong!, utterly completely totally wrongly wrong!!!
The trend scouts and futurologists say: IT MUST BE CHUNKY! Like a BRICK! A huuuuuge heavy BRICK!
The coming 35mm still camera MUST have size and weight of a 6x6 camera!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #74
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The trend scouts and futurologists say: IT MUST BE CHUNKY! Like a BRICK! A huuuuuge heavy BRICK!

You're on to something... An Argus C-3!!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #75
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You're on to something... An Argus C-3!!
Yeah! But no bakelite, rather *brass* and *steel*, please
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Old 1 Week Ago   #76
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Before Nikon make any more RF cameras I'd rather have them making scanners again.
A new modern Nikon MF scanner would be sweet, and I would buy one. Don't know how many others would, but count me in.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #77
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What would be the best imaginable classic re-issue?
Ask one hundred on this forum and you are likely to get 100 different responses. That is what the responses to this post show so far. I'll add mine. I want a new issue OM-1.
Fat!
Chance!
And, even if Olympus had a spare 50~60 million USD just sitting around to waste setting up production for a camera that has such limited sales potential, then the price would have to $10K per copy (at least) just to break even.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #78
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There are some folks who ran a Kickstarter campaign to make a new (and very feature laden) 35mm SLR. They collected about $155K after fees. Those backers will never see their money or any product. Doesn't matter. The camera envisioned was a hodge-podge of old ideas, too complicated by far.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #79
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: rio de janeiro
Posts: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
There are some folks who ran a Kickstarter campaign to make a new (and very feature laden) 35mm SLR. They collected about $155K after fees. Those backers will never see their money or any product. Doesn't matter. The camera envisioned was a hodge-podge of old ideas, too complicated by far.
SLRs are not being sold at 2k on eBay. Zeiss Ikon ZM is. Both Bessa and ZI are being sold for more than when released.
Nikon F3s street value is 500 dollars? Less?
A Leica M6 is costing 2x more then 3 yrs ago.
Itīs about rangefinders.
It did not come out of nowhere. Fujifilm x100 and xpro mimic rangefinders.

There are less rangefinders but loads of SLRs around. Nikon still sells the F6. Leica still sells a mechanical RF but costs north of 4k.

I know it makes no sense talking about a new film camera... but those are selling. Itīs a niche... but itīs growing. Digital is about to stall and Itīs too expensive.
 

Old 1 Week Ago   #80
jsrockit
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jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 45
Posts: 19,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
There are some folks who ran a Kickstarter campaign to make a new (and very feature laden) 35mm SLR. They collected about $155K after fees. Those backers will never see their money or any product. Doesn't matter. The camera envisioned was a hodge-podge of old ideas, too complicated by far.
I can’t see why this one can’t be made if they reached their goal.
 
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