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Cameras in the Movies / TV / Media If you are a photographer, it's difficult not to appreciate movies too. In this forum you can discuss movies, as well as the cameras used in them. What camera used in what film / TV show etc has long been a topic of discussion at RFF. Whether the Exakta and 400mm Kilfitt lens in Hitchcock's Rear Window or the Nikons in Eastwood's Bridges of Madison County, cameras are tools which reflect the time and technology of the film.

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The power of an image .....
Old 09-04-2015   #1
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The power of an image .....

You'd have to be hiding under a rock not to be aware of the current global refugee crisis, not to mention what is happening in Europe at the moment. This image appears to be softening the hardest of hearts and the attention it has received around the world is phenomenal.

And I'll mention straight up that this post is not about the refugee crisis itself because that could get very ugly very quickly here IMO ... its about this image and how many minds it is changing around the world about a humanitarian crisis that seems to be flying under a lot of people's radars.

As soon as I saw it I was reminded of the photo of the young Vietnamese girl, running from her burning village, covered in napalm. It bought the reality of the Vietnam war firmly into view for so many who had little clue about the horror of war itself.


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Old 09-04-2015   #2
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Keith, a good analogy with Nick Ut's photo of the young Phan Thi Kim Phuc.

Powerful, indeed. These images humanise a tragedy.
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Old 09-04-2015   #3
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Images are powerful Keith, you are correct. In Italy there is still an on going strong debate if these photos have to be published or not.
Personally I only hope they can help to let people realize how dramatic the situation is.
Thanks for posting.
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Old 09-04-2015   #4
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Yes, I have been under a rock yet I managed to see the heart-breaking photo yesterday. Keith, you are special and bringing this up shows your heart and caring spirit.

My only concern is that so many people have been de-sensitized over the past few years... I hope I am wrong. We all need to learn from this.
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Old 09-04-2015   #5
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If an image can impress enough people in power, it can be a force for good.
But, truth be told, the behaviour of people around the world is just as awful as it's ever been throughout history, even though we have daily access to pictures as powerful as this one.
Note the cynicism and despair in my tone here.
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Old 09-04-2015   #6
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On reflection, it is a very good photo even without the in-your-face starkness of reality. I think the thousands of images preceding it and the millions of hours of desensitization around us in the form of movies, video games and such have tempered the hearts of most. How much good will a single photograph accomplish these days? I have no idea but hope never dies. It only takes one person to make a difference!
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Old 09-04-2015   #7
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The image tells a story about the desperate lengths people will go to get away from war, famine and oppression.

The photo hits home because I have a three and five-year old. What would have I done? The same. I would have taken desperate messures to escape for the safety of my children.

In another forum, someone wrote (paraphrased) `this image is powerful as were the images of Rwanda and Kosovo, but guess what? We (the developed world) did nothing. We screamed and yelled to the high heavens about the actrocities, but did nothing to stop it. We are complicit too.`

The arguement now raging in Canada is about accepting refugees. I think it is a good idea to accept them, but accepting refugees does not solve the problem of why the parents took such risks to escape and why the boys died.

People will continue to flee because the risk of escape outway the dangers of civil war. So the why is known, so either the war continues and developed countries take in flux of refugees or the developed world takes a stand and stops the carnage in Syria stopping the need for refugees to flee.

Either way the developed world will pay huge somes of money resettling refugees or waging a war.

We know the why, now we need to find a solution.
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Old 09-04-2015   #8
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Yet I feel that the open debate in the media on whether or not this could be the 'iconic image that changes everything', does in fact deter attention from that very same result.

Back in the 1990's when a shell hit a market in Sarajevo, Bosnia there also was the question of the images (stills and footage) from the obliterated marketplace filled with dead bodies being capable to change the political debate in Europe. And in the end, nothing changed...


Typical case of where words to not add to the strength of an image but limit impact.
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Old 09-04-2015   #9
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It does make one wonder why some photographs actually make a difference and some do not.
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Old 09-04-2015   #10
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A very sad story. This boy and his family could have gone to Canada as refugees if the Turkish government had recognised them as such. But unfortunately the Turkish government chooses not to officially recognise Syrians as refugees as defined by UNHCR. To officially designate Syrians as refugees would limit Turkey’s involvement in the Syrian civil war, when in fact the Turkish government has taken a decidedly anti-Assad stance.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-they-didnt-deserve-to-die-aunt-of-drowned-syrian-boys-speaks/article26214073/
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Old 09-04-2015   #11
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GeorgeH,

The family faced opression in Turkey. The Turks do not want them there. The Turks would turn them back if the world wasn`t watching. Do some google searches to see what the Turks aren`t doing.

We are complicit because the developed world caused the situation and now we are turning a blind eye to the situation. Over a 100-years the developed world has played a leading role in disabilizating the region.

So either get out and take the refugees or go all in to stop the civil war to stop the flow of refugees.
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Old 09-04-2015   #12
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Obviously, no one (decent, I mean) can stay indifferent to this picture.
What I wonder is if that kind of image can shake people only when they feel personally under menace by the problem.
Would Nick Ut picture had the same effect if the US military wasn't bleeding so much there?
Was this revolting image of a drowned 3 years old have the same effect if Europe wasn't feeling under the menace of the consequences of the Barbary unleashed in the middle east?

The reason I am asking is that what is going on there is pretty obvious. There is a genocide running there, and in central Africa. For years, mind you. Pictures of little children gased by the Syrian regime where published years ago. it was revolting but didn't prompted any significant reaction.

I think there are revolting pictures, and there are revolting pictures that are a direct and immediate menace to you, and these two are very different things (mea culpa, I don't think I'm different...)
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Old 09-04-2015   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeH View Post
I live in Budapest, near Keleti, and I've had occasion to visit the station recently. I am seeing firsthand the difference between what is happening here and what I'm reading in the western press. I doubt a google search is going to give me an accurate view into the current situation in Turkey.

Your guilt is irrational. This is why the image in the OP is so dangerous, it's disseminated to provoke an emotional response.

Interestingly my son's mother was a Hungarian refugee and was in fact a registered alien and effectively stateless. When we got married she had to apply for NZ citizenship before they would grant the marriage license.
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Old 09-04-2015   #14
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GeorgeH,

I see that you are from Hungary. I am sure that you see the reality and can separate the reality from fiction posted to the internet. But, as jonmanjiro pointed out with the Globe and Mail article it is fact that Turks refuse to acknowledge the Syrians as refugees, so the Syrians want to escape to somewhere they feel safe and wanted.

I do not feel guilty at all. It is a reality. The Syrian Civil war is another episode in history.
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Old 09-04-2015   #15
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The actions of the Hungarian government are disgraceful. We dont want this sort of racism in the EU.
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Old 09-04-2015   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannielscom View Post
Yet I feel that the open debate in the media on whether or not this could be the 'iconic image that changes everything', does in fact deter attention from that very same result.

Back in the 1990's when a shell hit a market in Sarajevo, Bosnia there also was the question of the images (stills and footage) from the obliterated marketplace filled with dead bodies being capable to change the political debate in Europe. And in the end, nothing changed...


Typical case of where words to not add to the strength of an image but limit impact.
They hunted down and prosecuted those responsible. And that process is still ongoing.

The political debate c and legal machines move and change slowly, but we cannot assume that there will be instant gratification but a steady process toward enlightenment and justice.

We must take the long view. This is one haunting and tragic image that will help in a long and enduring process.

Have faith.
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Old 09-04-2015   #17
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Quote:
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I am seeing firsthand a difference between what is happening here and what I'm reading about in the western press. I doubt a google search is going to give me an accurate view into the current situation in Turkey.
I for one would welcome some info from someone actually there, as opposed to just press articles. Please elaborate on these differences (I'm not being snarky)

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Your guilt is irrational. This is why the image in the OP is so dangerous, it's disseminated to provoke an emotional response.
Well the rational argument has been going on for a while and hasn't gotten very far. The guilt is irrational if you think about this as Europe's problem and Turkey's fault and the father's irresponsibility, but this is a humanitarian issue, that is: as societies, as people, are we ok with things like this happening and us not doing anything ?

The fact that they're Afghan or Syrian or that it's happening in Europe is irrelevant, it can happen to anyone anywhere, when **** happens it comes down equally on everyone, and I can assure you most people assumed nothing bad would happen to them and all of those would much rather be at home safely than in unwelcoming foreign lands.

It's easy to practice armchair philosophy from my safe and cozy Canadian city, but I was born during a war and went through another one and there's stuff you don't forget
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Old 09-04-2015   #18
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After this images was published it received a lot of online attention in my home country and seemed to provoke a number of petitions calling for an increased refugee quota. The government recently tried to reduce the annual refugee intake has since backed off indicating they are reviewing that decision. It's a terrible image, but I'm glad it has provoked some genuine reflection.
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Old 09-04-2015   #19
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...Are we ok with things like this happening and us not doing anything ?
...
Lets relocate Syria to Canada. Will this do it?

By letting in refugees it is not going to be fixed at all. One million of Syrian refugees is in Turkey now. Taking thousands in is humanitarian, but I would call it politically humanitarian.

Some people will never realise what people are living in very different countries and cultures.
Why it is happening in Syria, Irag or Russia?
Because majority of those who lives here are allowing this.
And where are two way to solve it. People who lives in troubled country have to fix it. Or people from outside.
I'm aware of only two outside fixes which were successful.
Atomic bombing of Japan and surrendering of their fascist supporting rezime.
And entering Germany by millions of soldiers before Japan to bring down Nazys and entire German nation to normal humans level.

Is where any "us" ready to repeat? Not just drones and airstrikes and few peacekeepers or commandos killing civilians?
And even if we enter. How to bring end of the war. Why Muslim, Jewish and Christians used to live together in Syria and what force took them apart.
Is it as simple and single as German Nazyes?
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Old 09-04-2015   #20
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Quote:
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What would you do, re-draw the map of the world?
Having governments respond to such issues earlier and not pretend like nothing is going on would be a good start.
Having countries who aren't directly confronted with it offer help, because it's everyone's problem.
Stop acting surprised at the outcome of escalated military involvement.

(Spoiler, our current government failed on all such fronts)
But also, smaller scale actions like individual donations and perhaps the hardest thing: changing individual reactions from refusal, suspicion, blame to reason and empathy.
The reaction so far has been human, but also unacceptable.
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Old 09-04-2015   #21
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if there is a war anywhere and a family wants to escape from the war and has relatives in a different country ready to help why cannot they reach their own relatives in a legal way?
robert
PS: hopefully a picture like this helps to open a few minds...in Island 10000 people answer the appeal of Mrs. Bjorgvinsdottir ...
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Old 09-04-2015   #22
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if there is a war anywhere and a family wants to escape from the war and has relatives in a different country ready to help why cannot they reach their own relatives in a legal way?
robert
Because they're desperate. Do you know how long it took my parents to legally immigrate to Canada, in times of peace ? Years of paperwork. You're running away from strife, you have kids, you're hungry, the place you're in doesn't want you, who has time for that ?

Do I condone this ? Not really, but this is what people do.
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Old 09-04-2015   #23
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In the '30s of last century my father at age of 16 had to leave with his family the country (Germany) where he was living, studying, having friend. Maybe this is what makes me sensible to the situations...
robert
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Old 09-04-2015   #24
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A very sad story. This boy and his family could have gone to Canada as refugees if the Turkish government had recognised them as such. But unfortunately the Turkish government chooses not to officially recognise Syrians as refugees as defined by UNHCR. To officially designate Syrians as refugees would limit Turkey’s involvement in the Syrian civil war, when in fact the Turkish government has taken a decidedly anti-Assad stance.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-they-didnt-deserve-to-die-aunt-of-drowned-syrian-boys-speaks/article26214073/
Thank you for pointing this out. This remains a very big stumbling block that must be addressed.

I urge folks to not jump to the conclusions that the camps in Turkey are 'safe' as this is not true. Many of the major camps lay right on the frontier and it is not uncommon for them to take fire from within Syria. The camps are also staging grounds for many combatants.
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Old 09-04-2015   #25
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if there is a war anywhere and a family wants to escape from the war and has relatives in a different country ready to help why cannot they reach their own relatives in a legal way?
robert
PS: hopefully a picture like this helps to open a few minds...in Island 10000 people answer the appeal of Mrs. Bjorgvinsdottir ...
When law and order completely break down in a nation or nations at war with each other or themselves or similar, there is no "legal way" any more.

None.

There is usually no physically possible way to repatriate the displaced.

Once the internal legal framework of a country breaks down in a conflict environment it breaks down the legal means to relocate in affected neighbours or even more far flung areas (boat people, for example). It breaks down the laws of other countries by default, usually irrevocably.

And for most displaced persons fleeing there is likely no return. Ever. That's a constant of history.
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Old 09-04-2015   #26
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No it isn't. You see the cute kid on the beach (by the way, you ever seen what a drowned body looks like?) and your heart bleeds but that doesn't make it Canada's problem. You can beat your chest about how it's humanity's responsibility but sooner or later you are going to have to wake up and realize that humanity, as you define it, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

It's called blowback and no one in this thread is acting surprised that I am aware of.
So it's everyone's responsibility when it's time to send in warplanes and tanks and military advisors, but no one's problem when it comes to handling the stream of refugees ? How is this not humanity's collective problem ? Why do far away countries send in aid when earthquakes hit or volcanoes erupt ?

I didn't mean any person here, the people in charge seem overwhelmed by the number of those displaced.
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Old 09-04-2015   #27
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Some of these people have passed through a number of perfectly safe countries yet continue to place their families at risk in order to reach what they perceive to be the richest ones.

What I don`t understand is why they don`t seek refuge in the wealthy Gulf States.

Whatever happened to Arab unity ?
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Old 09-04-2015   #28
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Sure, emotions inspired by powerful images can be used to manipulate. These heart-rending images did the opposite - they stopped the vile crescendo of xenophobic rhetoric in the British press (specially the Europhobic usual suspects), using the word "migrant", variously compared to a swarm, a tide or a plague, to dehumanize and vilify refugees and asylum-seekers.
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Old 09-04-2015   #29
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Some of these people have passed through a number of perfectly safe countries yet continue to place their families at risk in order to reach what they perceive to be the richest ones.

What I don`t understand is why they don`t seek refuge in the wealthy Gulf States.

Whatever happened to Arab unity ?
I can answer that. First of all, those people don't wake up one day, pick up the car and decide to go to Europe. They are trafficked there by organized crime - smugglers that put them in a boat and send them across the Mediterranean.
Now regarding why they don't seek asylum in the first safe country. I am not aware about the figures concerning Italy and Turkey but Greece has received 1.5 million immigrants over the last 25 years (total population of Greece is a bit above 12 Million). Greece is over-saturated - if within a week Greece receives 20.000 immigrants, those people will starve to death there. That is why they migrate to other countries, so that they settle and be absorbed on the way to other countries.

Last edited by p.giannakis : 09-04-2015 at 11:40. Reason: Corrected figures
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Old 09-04-2015   #30
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What I don`t understand is why they don`t seek refuge in the wealthy Gulf States.
Saudi Arabia is too busy spending its' $80B annual military budget (third in the world after the US and China) creating a fresh humanitarian crisis in Yemen to bolster the martial credentials of the new king's feckless son. Given how shabbily they have treated Palestinians in the past, the Syrian refugees are perfectly rational in avoiding them like the plague.
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Old 09-04-2015   #31
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This is not as yet confirmed but news is breaking that the family in question had been settled in Turkey for three years .

If so I think that we should be circumspect as to motives.
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Old 09-04-2015   #32
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Saudi Arabia is too busy spending its' $80B annual military budget (third in the world after the US and China) creating a fresh humanitarian crisis in Yemen to bolster the martial credentials of the new king's feckless son. Given how shabbily they have treated Palestinians in the past, the Syrian refugees are perfectly rational in avoiding them like the plague.

I have no doubt but how does that absolve them of any responsibility .
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Old 09-04-2015   #33
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It was not so long ago that Europe's refuges fled overseas to a new country, built entirely of immigrants. That country is the USA.
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Old 09-04-2015   #34
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exactly the image i expected when i clicked

let's hope a great picture of a horrible thing brings about positive change
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Old 09-04-2015   #35
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That massive influx sure worked out well for the natives, didn't it?
The Natives were also immigrants.

Immigration is part of human nature.
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Old 09-04-2015   #36
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Good Points indeed !
But as Michael brought up , Arab Unity (?)
I guess not since the few Dominating are wrecking Havoc, killing their fellow Muslim and the rest of the World

Religions in general are the Enemy of Man & God
Now for a Moderator to Delete my Post

As for the Photo posted of the Drowned child.., The Photo did not move me, what moved me was the Story behind it not the visual... Whereas the Photo
of the Vietnamese Girl naked and crying was a much more Potent Photo
It has haunted me since iI first saw it

It's All heart wrenching : war, famine, greed, hate
but in Reality and all thru Time
'Man' is the most Brutal Beast of All... it will always Exist

As for Utopia , its just a state of Mind... Transitiory, ever fleeting
Not Humanely Possible in a World (only in Dreams & Writings)

...........YES.
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Old 09-04-2015   #37
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Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
When law and order completely break down in a nation or nations at war with each other or themselves or similar, there is no "legal way" any more.

None.
Yes, I agree, my was a rhetorical question...
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Old 09-04-2015   #38
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Bringing up my ancestral native americans and the "damned" Scottish immigrants who married them...wow, we have really strayed from the forum subjects about movies, cameras in the movies, tv and media.... Just kidding.

I appreciate the civil discourse so far! Carry on while I work on another line of our family ancestry! With a fountain pen, of course...
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Old 09-04-2015   #39
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Official Europe has become about money and power only. I hope that this image will make us people change direction, remind us to work and fight for human rights.
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Old 09-04-2015   #40
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Human rights, Yes!!! Love, yes!! Respect, yes!! We need all of that!

But before I go, Keith mentioned the photo by Nick regarding the napalm attack, etc. Can anyone really define that or any single photo that had the most impact on the eventual end of the Vietnam war? I recall numerous other photos as well but being at a young age, Nick's image was the most riveting for me.
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