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Cameras in the Movies / TV / Media If you are a photographer, it's difficult not to appreciate movies too. In this forum you can discuss movies, as well as the cameras used in them. What camera used in what film / TV show etc has long been a topic of discussion at RFF. Whether the Exakta and 400mm Kilfitt lens in Hitchcock's Rear Window or the Nikons in Eastwood's Bridges of Madison County, cameras are tools which reflect the time and technology of the film.

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Old 09-07-2015   #81
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Originally Posted by nongfuspring View Post
I think it's the banality of the photograph which is so unsettling, it has all the elements of another familiar facebook beach holiday photograph, only that the child is dead.

That said, I think it's power is due to it's timing and political context. So much of the argument against accepting refugees is that they are a threat and they aren't like "us", this photograph goes against that. But Roger is right in that it doesn't really have the makings of an iconic photograph like the Nick Ut image, but then again I'm not sure if the media really can support iconic images anymore.


That is so true ... without context the image doesn't really say much. Nick Ut's image on the other hand is very dynamic and needs little explaining.
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Old 09-07-2015   #82
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That is so true ... without context the image doesn't really say much. Nick Ut's image on the other hand is very dynamic and needs little explaining.
Well, again, Nick's photo occurred amidst massive anti-war protests and was the first like it I had ever seen, so there was an innocence that was becoming less so with the advent of media coverage unlike WWI and WWII.

Since then, TV shows attempt to show the most horrific scenes that make any of the photos shown or discussed appear commonplace. Callousness is caused by continued exposure to these things.

I agree that it is difficult these days to find anyone who is really moved by similar photos whether in National Geographic or on RFF. At least here in the USA, I believe that to be the case.

It appears that only a viral video on Facebook catches the public eye but then why do cat videos make it on CNN news anyway? I don't think I have seen that response to a still image. ICBW...
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Old 09-07-2015   #83
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I am glad this image was published. Why? I do live in Bulgaria. The poorest among EC countries. We were under ottoman yoke for 500 years and we survived. We accepted after armenian genocide refugees in the beginning of th 20-th century, the running white russians after the communist revolution, we rescued our jews during WW2( yet only from our land). We were compassionate. And last year syrians started to flee into our country. Our politicians started anti-refugee campaigns scaring people . For an year I was many times blamed for sympathising to them. Until this weekend when in a common conversation the photo of the Kurdi faced down the sand was mentioned. People who last year were strongly against admitting any kind of refugees now changed there mind. So I am glad it was published. You could not imagine what difference it made and I hope it would make to people who are on the refugee's road to a peaceful land.
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Old 09-07-2015   #84
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I am glad this image was published. Why? I do live in Bulgaria. The poorest among EC countries. We were under ottoman yoke for 500 years and we survived. We accepted after armenian genocide refugees in the beginning of th 20-th century, the running white russians after the communist revolution, we rescued our jews during WW2( yet only from our land). We were compassionate. And last year syrians started to flee into our country. Our politicians started anti-refugee campaigns scaring people . For an year I was many times blamed for sympathising to them. Until this weekend when in a common conversation the photo of the Kurdi faced down the sand was mentioned. People who last year were strongly against admitting any kind of refugees now changed there mind. So I am glad it was published. You could not imagine what difference it made and I hope it would make to people who are on the refugee's road to a peaceful land.


That image has made a significant difference ... there has been a candlelight rally in Melbourne tonight in support of bringing in as many Syrian refugees as we can. Ten thousand people attended. LINK
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Old 09-07-2015   #85
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Ok, outta here...
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Old 09-07-2015   #86
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The image Keith posted had very little Impact, the image everyone on the social media in Europe was talking about was the Image posted by Timmyjoe. This was a case of the media being too timid or scared for lack of a better word to publish the stronger picture. But to be honest neither Picture was able to create a real Impact the politician do not care about a dead child it is (I hate that term) collateral damage in a much bigger Game. As Federica Mogherini (High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy and Vice-President of the European Commission ) said Politicians don't have the luxury of getting emotional about such a photo she even went one step further and said Politician shouldn't react emotionally this only leads to bad choices.

The bigger game I was talking about isn't about democracy or human rights in the least but about the return of 19th century colonialism to North Africa and the middle east on one side and getting rid of the shiites (Iran) and their partners on the other side (Saudi Arabia wants to get rid of every none Wahabite Sunni).

Both images are too calm they lack emotion and a big emotional Impact. People remember Emotions. The Images might stand out in a sea of rather mediocre images from that conflict but not by much.
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Old 09-07-2015   #87
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This Video made me think it's by a Swedish Professor who explains where the Syrian refugees went https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_QrIapiNOw
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Old 09-07-2015   #88
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I am a bit surprised by the overriding political analysis in reaction to this photo. This photo moves me because I see the tenderness and despair of the official picking up this innocent dead child from a beach.
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Old 09-07-2015   #89
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But the question is does it move but not make you think or does it move you and makes you think and do things if it only moves you but doesn't make you think than the Images has completely failed. An official who carries a dead child, why is the child dead what happened as I previously said the Image lacks Impact without the text going with the Image. We only see a distraught soldier (and his emotions aren't that strongly visible imo) carry a child that's it.
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Old 09-07-2015   #90
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Quote:
But the question is does it move but not make you think or does it move you and makes you think and do things if it only moves you but doesn't make you think than the Images has completely failed
Nothing wrong about being confused...it happens to the best of us.

All this said, whatever you or I may think or feel about this picture, the EU will have to get its act together and respond.
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Old 09-07-2015   #91
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Yes but not only the EU but also the leading NATO Country and their friends in the middle east especially Saudi Arabia. Also often forgotten the Image was not taken in EU Waters but in Turkey they should also get their act together and stop trying to recreate the Ottoman empire. From the countries on the map the only Country that one could refer to as being innocent of the wrong doings in the middle east is Lebanon another Country on the brink of civil war and I hope not again Christian vs Muslim like the last time.

People and countries should finally realize that we are all human beings and stop all aggressions at once. I really hope for a return of the peace movement the Military and cold war hawks have received too much air time and importance.
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Old 09-07-2015   #92
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John Stanmeyer on National Geographic Fleeing ISIS
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Old 09-07-2015   #93
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Thanks for the NatGeo link, John. Strong work, rational presentation, and all of it about life struggle--no money shot of dead children to sell horror to suburban vampires and voyeurs.

Although I found the images affecting, and agree with Tim et al that the other image is stronger--if only because it is just before the 'decisive moment' the officer faces about what to do next, and so exposes a fundamental helplessness and vulnerability-- Roger is right about its elegiac tranquility, and Nongfuspring about its eerie resemblance to certain banal, sentimental beach vacation snaps. I found myself inappropriately (yet what is appropriate?) remembering the drowned Pinocchio in Disney, because the boy's clothing is similar.

Irony, though, is a corrosive sublimate, and may dissolve my humanity just as thoroughly as repeated exposure to images of atrocity, battlefield post mortem, and the like. If these images help even a dozen children survive, they're justified.
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Old 09-07-2015   #94
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Thanks for the link to Stanmeyer's work a very different but still interesting approach. The best and also in a way more powerful images imo are those that show a certain normalcy and not large groups or soldiers but the life of those refugees. The media tends to portray refugees as weak, desperate or dead but never really as normal human beings and that's what they are. People tend not to like the weak or desperate but they do accept normal People. Again thank you for the link. Some very nice work.
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Old 09-07-2015   #95
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I was discussing the photographs that had run in the papers this evening past with another pj friend who had fairly extensive experience in the region. We were trying to figure out why this particular image made the front pages versus the avalanche of material that has come out of Syria in the past few years. It was of particular interest to me as I had been present in the immediate aftermath of a terrible massacre of children inside Syria. The pictures I then sent out, of a far more graphic nature than the picture being discussed, were met with a level of hostility I was unprepared for. In short, no North American outlets would touch them. The targeting of children had become commonplace at this point and I was distraught to say the least that nobody seemed to give a damn. What we came up with (pj friend and I) was this particular set of images was 'clean' to the point where the boy could easily become every parent's child. Face obscured, neutral attire and so on. This creates a situation where the boy is somehow detached from the horrific imagery we have seen so far and allows the viewer to think, for just a moment even, that it could be their young boy, cousin, brother etc. creating a far more visceral reaction. Sadly it has become easy to ignore the plight of the 'others' but should we make the emotional connection to our own... well you get the point.

The sheer power of this image is that without the corresponding copy,it could easily be thought of as your/our child.

And then we drank a bunch of whiskey.

John you're the professional, so correct me if I'm wrong in this thinking:

What is the end goal of publishing such material ? To get people to think, to react (in any way) and maybe get them to pressure their governments into doing something. People however do not respond to logic alone, groups of people and societies even less. This photograph is disturbing to be sure, but frankly it's irrelevant which kind of material is published in the end, as long as, like this one, it makes people take their head out of the sand.
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Old 09-07-2015   #96
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John you're the professional, so correct me if I'm wrong in this thinking:

What is the end goal of publishing such material ? To get people to think, to react (in any way) and maybe get them to pressure their governments into doing something. People however do not respond to logic alone, groups of people and societies even less. This photograph is disturbing to be sure, but frankly it's irrelevant which kind of material is published in the end, as long as, like this one, it makes people take their head out of the sand.
No. What matters is which way they look when they take their head out of the sand. The very same picture can act equally well as propaganda for different sides. Misha Bar Am photographed the Israeli flag flying over Samaria in 1978. Your response to it will depend on where you are coming from: pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, anti-war... See http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?V...LID=24KL53BWG0 picture 10

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Old 09-07-2015   #97
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I think the image Keith posted is very powerful, but I wish the major news publishers had used this image of the same policeman and little boy:

Warning, Very Graphic Image
That's the one which I found had the highest impact, at least on me - and I strongly suspect others would feel the same way. Despite this, it was far less frequently published.

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Old 09-07-2015   #98
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That image has made a significant difference ... there has been a candlelight rally in Melbourne tonight in support of bringing in as many Syrian refugees as we can. Ten thousand people attended. LINK
Also, quite importantly, the initial reaction to accept substantial numbers of those displaced by the Syrian conflict but only within our existing quotas almost immediately became politically untenable. While not yet certain, it seems that all sides of Australian politics have accepted that caps on asylum-seeker numbers need to be raised, and raised significantly. I couldn't have imagined that two weeks ago.

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