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Is this Contax IIa worth taking a gamble on?
Old 09-01-2018   #1
escuta
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Is this Contax IIa worth taking a gamble on?

Hi Forum,

I'm considering purchasing a Contax IIa with a Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 50mm f/2 lens. I've read about fake Contaxes, but this does seem to have the features of a genuine IIa rather than the II and I understand that the IIa was never faked. Is that correct?

The camera is selling for the equivalent of US$183 and it will probably cost another US$95 for me to have it serviced (there's a technician here in town that has managed to fix everything that thrown at him so far).

One curious thing is that the lens has the serial number of 2038520. From a search I did, this would place it from 1937 whereas the body is post war.

I'll paste some photos below. Can anyone please comment on the camera? Worth the gamble? Does the lens look genuine? Is it uncoated and might I be able to expect good results (i haven't started to ask the seller question yet about scratches etc.)?

All the best!
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Old 09-01-2018   #2
escuta
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a couple more images:
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Old 09-01-2018   #3
xayraa33
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Yup, that is a genuine IIa Contax camera.

The F2 50mm Sonnar lens is also genuine and could be a post war Jena made lens, as the West Germany Oberkochen plant could not keep up demands for optics and got some made in Jena in East Germany

It is certainly worth 183 USD, heck, lens alone is worth that much if it is not scratched to kingdom come or fungus-ed like a damp forest floor.

Getting it sorted out for 95 USD is a bargoon, but parts are not easy to get and it is a complex hand fitted mechanism with its own strange idiosyncrasies.
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Old 09-01-2018   #4
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That is a pre-war genuine Carl Zeiss Jena lens from 1937. I have on the same on my 1937 Contax II. The post-war 50 f2 Sonnar lenses are not collapsible and have 6 digit serial numbers.
John Mc
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Old 09-01-2018   #5
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Coated lenses will usually show reflections from light sources with a color tint to them, often purple. On your shots it is just white which suggests uncoated.

Is the shutter firing now? At all speeds?

Have you checked with your repair person to see if they work on the Contax IIa? The shutter is different compared to most other cameras and not everyone knows them and works on them.

Shawn
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Old 09-01-2018   #6
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Many thanks xayraa33 and John. John, what is your opinion of these pre-war Jenas? Because I believe these have no lens coatings, might they be more resistant to flare problems if scratched (i have 2 Jupiter 8M lenses with scratched lens coatings that flare wildly on bright objects but are otherwise excellent)?

One other question, what is meant by "collapsible"? They can flatten down like a pancake lens?

All the best!
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Old 09-01-2018   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
Coated lenses will usually show reflections from light sources with a color tint to them, often purple. On your shots it is just white which suggests uncoated.

Is the shutter firing now? At all speeds?

Have you checked with your repair person to see if they work on the Contax IIa? The shutter is different compared to most other cameras and not everyone knows them and works on them.

Shawn
Shawn, I know for certain that he can can fix the Kievs and he's very experienced. I've sent a message to him but won't hear back until Monday. Yes, apparently firing at all speeds and focus is working. I'm about to send the seller some questions.
Thanks!
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Old 09-01-2018   #8
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those cameras are quite different from the prewar cameras on which the Kievs are based. But your repairer will presumably know that. I'd snap it up at that price. Some think those are more pernickety cameras than the early versions, but they are beautifully crafted for sure.
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Old 09-01-2018   #9
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Looks like this is an early production Contax IIa from 1950-1951. Later models had an additional glass unit hold in place with two tiny screws in front of the rangefinder window. This one doesn't have it.

Interesting enough, the camera eyepiece still has its original black plastic guard ring. Most of them got lost over time.

The leather on the camera back will have to be carefully removed, then the leather and the camera casting will have to be cleaned off all the verdigris bumps having grown up on the copper rivets, then the leather will have to be carefully glued back in place.

The lens needs cleaning. There is some oil on the aperture blades telling there is likely some haze inside. Fortunately the collapsible prewar Sonnar is extremely easy to take apart and clean. There is no ring which should be removed using a spanner and which could be so sticky that the spanner would destroy everything.

If clean with no scratches on the front element the prewar uncoated collapsible Sonnar delivers beautiful and sharp results, absolutely on par with later lenses of the same formula and considerably better than anything made by Leitz at the same time. It will show some distorsion, though. Not a big deal for daily photography. It won't show some excessive flare or "glow". Again - if perfectly clean.

At that price this is worth the gamble for the outfit if you know someone who says he can fix it seriously. The shutter firing at all speeds doesn't tell much for now. It can fire but yet travel close or at erratic speeds.

The yellow filter is a postwar Zeiss Stuttgart filter.

I would buy it according to the price and what I can see on the pictures. The seller's answers would probably not be something you can really trust in.
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Old 09-01-2018   #10
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Thanks Paul. Just made the purchase. The seller had replied and said the lens has no visible scratches but that it will need a clean. Also confirmed that there are no pieces missing (nor the take up spool) and that it just needs some lubrication to speed up the slower shutter speeds. I didn't wait to hear from the repairer but I'm confident he'll be able to work on it.

Thanks a lot everyone for your comments. All the best!
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Old 09-01-2018   #11
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great information Highway 61 - thanks
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Old 09-01-2018   #12
David Hughes
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BTW, it's best to get hold of a manual and read it twice before starting to play with the camera. They are not quite what you'd expect.

Try here: https://www.petrakla.com/products/co...al-english-pdf

or here: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/zeiss_i..._contax_ii.htm

or else look for the Focal Guide.

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Old 09-01-2018   #13
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Best lenses for Post war IIa and IIIa models, are West German lenses marked either Zeiss Option (early 50's) or later (1954 on) marked "Carl Zeiss".

Chances are the body needs a service, and if the tech you have does not know these cameras, they can do more harm than good. "Just needing lubrication.....?" Does not sound like someone I'd want to be working on mine. The thing probably needs to be stripped down, cleaned of 50 years worth of gunk, re-timed and properly lubricated. Chances are, at the upper end of the range (1/250 and faster) the shutter may not be opening even though it is running, a common issue with Contax shutters that have sat/not been serviced in a while.

Here's my 100% operational IIa outfit. the only non-West German lens I currently am using is a really clean 85mm f2 Sonnar. Looking for "Carl Zeiss" version of the 85mm f2 and a nice, clean 35mm f2.8 West German Biogon to complete my set.

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Old 09-01-2018   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escuta View Post
One other question, what is meant by "collapsible"? They can flatten down like a pancake lens?

All the best!
Only collapsible for storage. Has to be extended to get it into shooting position. All of the more desireable post war 50mm West German lenses (Sonnar and Tessar 50mm lenses) designed to be used with the IIa were rigid.
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Old 09-01-2018   #15
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Originally Posted by escuta View Post
Shawn, I know for certain that he can can fix the Kievs and he's very experienced. I've sent a message to him but won't hear back until Monday. Yes, apparently firing at all speeds and focus is working. I'm about to send the seller some questions.
Thanks!
Best way to ruin a good West German Contax IIa is for someone to "repair" it using Kiev parts....
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Old 09-02-2018   #16
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No, that was the seller that suggested it needed lubrication. The tech is a good one and has worked here in Brasilia for years - there are many photo journalists here in the capital! I mentioned the Kiev because I have one and I asked him about it once. All the best!
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Old 09-02-2018   #17
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Best way to ruin a good West German Contax IIa is for someone to "repair" it using Kiev parts....
I’m pretty sure very little Kiev parts will ever fit into a contax IIa.
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Old 09-02-2018   #18
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No, that was the seller that suggested it needed lubrication. The tech is a good one and has worked here in Brasilia for years - there are many photo journalists here in the capital! I mentioned the Kiev because I have one and I asked him about it once. All the best!
Your camera tech might be very competent and might have had some Contax IIa and IIIa repair experience.

The Contax IIa is not a Contax II or a Kiev and even these were considered complex cameras by 1930s to 1950s standards.

A camera tech that has repaired hundreds of Leica Barnacks might run into the odd Contax IIa sometimes and has figured it out, other techs who never seen one might cause more harm than good.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, camera techs with some Contax IIa repair experience can fix them if its needed and that depends on what is needed.

Then we go to the Henry Scherer extreme, where he claims only he knows the real secrets of how to properly fix the Contax IIa or IIIa and if you go on his three year waiting list, say a prayer and pay him a hefty fee then you will have the great privilege of a Henry Schererized Contax IIa.


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Old 09-02-2018   #19
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Yes, it will be a gamble, but at the very least I'll have the zeiss lens which i can use on my Kiev 4. There are 2 Contax SLRs in the tech's shop that he serviced and is selling, so I'm optimistic that he may have come across a IIa in the past. If not I'll make some enquiries in São Paulo. Cheers
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Old 09-02-2018   #20
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“Contax” SLR’s were made by Yashica much, much later. Nowhere near the same thing.

You should probably assume the only thing you’re getting here that you may have long-term comrade is, the lens.
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Old 09-02-2018   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhchen View Post
I’m pretty sure very little Kiev parts will ever fit into a contax IIa.
Regards, Nathan
And then the world eBay market place is littered with yet another ruined Contax (who knows, this one may already be that- Kiev’s are based on the pre-war Contax..much different than the post-war Contax “A” series, making Kiev parts even WORSE) that the future new owner won’t realize, and the seller wom’t disclose...

Who buys a Contax IIa and is happy coming out of it with, in essence, a Kiev? Just buy 8-10 Kiev’s and hope someone can make you one decent camera.
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Old 09-02-2018   #22
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Jesus christ, i'll leave you all to it. Thanks for the helpful messages earlier on in this thread. Enjoy your sunday, i suggest taking a little sun. Signing off
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Old 09-02-2018   #23
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Originally Posted by Gregm61 View Post
“Contax” SLR’s were made by Yashica much, much later. Nowhere near the same thing.

You should probably assume the only thing you’re getting here that you may have long-term comrade is, the lens.
Unless the OP is referring to a Contarex or a Contaflex, both of which were made by Zeiss.
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Old 09-02-2018   #24
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And then the world eBay market place is littered with yet another ruined Contax (who knows, this one may already be that- Kiev’s are based on the pre-war Contax..much different than the post-war Contax “A” series, making Kiev parts even WORSE) that the future new owner won’t realize, and the seller wom’t disclose...

Who buys a Contax IIa and is happy coming out of it with, in essence, a Kiev? Just buy 8-10 Kiev’s and hope someone can make you one decent camera.
I would be interested in seeing a contax IIa with Kiev parts inside. Up until now I never realised the parts can be easily exchanged!
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Old 09-02-2018   #25
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Originally Posted by RObert Budding View Post
Unless the OP is referring to a Contarex or a Contaflex, both of which were made by Zeiss.
That would be even scarier if it was a leaf-shuttered Contaflex (LOL), but it does seem there’s not a lot of practical Contax knowledge expressed so far by the OP which, for someone looking to buy a Contax, is more likely to mean you wind up more with a frustraitingly non-operating body than one in good condition.
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Old 09-02-2018   #26
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Originally Posted by nhchen View Post
I would be interested in seeing a contax IIa with Kiev parts inside. Up until now I never realised the parts can be easily exchanged!
I would not assume it is easy, or that the resulting body will operate well, if at all, long-term.
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Old 09-02-2018   #27
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Hi,

I think that part of the problem is the way the camera models were named; in the 30's there was the original Contax, which became the Contax I as soon as the II appeared. And then in 1937 (perhaps) a version of the II with a built in meter appeared and it was called the Contax III. This is based on a 1930's Carl Zeiss catalogue I have in my collection.

The Kiev was, of course, originally the Contax assembled from Contax parts and so on in the USSR which morphed into the Kiev. Several RFF members have 1930's Contax II's repaired with early Kiev parts and seem very happy with them.

Regards, David
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Old 09-02-2018   #28
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The price is nice
But be warned: as others have already mentioned the iia is super complicated to repair (its in the same league with the Leicaflex SL).
Unless your repair person knows that camera you will waste your money (not on the lens off course).
The plain ii is a piece of cake to repair...
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Old 09-02-2018   #29
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Jesus christ, i'll leave you all to it. Thanks for the helpful messages earlier on in this thread. Enjoy your sunday, i suggest taking a little sun. Signing off
Haha, sometimes it is possible to have too much information, and some people do over-think.

Good luck with the camera. I think that lens will be fine; many people get great results with them. The later versions are perhaps slightly better performance but can have their own problems (balsam separation).

The one thing I would notewith the IIa is that you can't fit the pre-war 35mm Biogon lens, as it's bulkier and hits the curtains, so if you want a 35mm look for the postwar Zeiss (expensive), the Nikon (less so) or the pretty good value Voigtlander.

Anyways, have fun, I have always wanted one of those cameras and I'm a little jealous.
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Old 09-02-2018   #30
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“Contax” SLR’s were made by Yashica much, much later. Nowhere near the same thing.

You should probably assume the only thing you’re getting here that you may have long-term comrade is, the lens.
NO, Yashica made some "CONTAX" badged cameras. The "Contax" SLRs were produced from circa 1948 in the former DDR. Did you seriously not know that?
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Old 09-02-2018   #31
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That would be even scarier if it was a leaf-shuttered Contaflex (LOL), but it does seem there’s not a lot of practical Contax knowledge expressed so far by the OP which, for someone looking to buy a Contax, is more likely to mean you wind up more with a frustraitingly non-operating body than one in good condition.
There's nothing particularly scary about the insides of a Contaflex (SLR). In truth, apart from servicing the shutter and some meter cells dying, not much else typically goes wrong with them in most cases.
LOL.
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Old 09-02-2018   #32
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Ed Smolov used the be an expert on repairing Contax cameras. He once told me that he has to work with over 200 parts when he services a Contax camera.
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Old 09-03-2018   #33
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There's nothing particularly scary about the insides of a Contaflex (SLR). In truth, apart from servicing the shutter and some meter cells dying, not much else typically goes wrong with them in most cases.
LOL.
No, it was the idea in the post before my response (I even quoted the line in my response) that someone might mistake a Contax for a Contaflex that was scary. Two entirely different types of cameras.
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Old 09-04-2018   #34
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I would be interested in seeing a contax IIa with Kiev parts inside. Up until now I never realised the parts can be easily exchanged!
I had been thinking for long, like normal people, that no Kiev part could be used on a Contax IIa or IIIa but for some screws (including the front cover and top cover small screws) which are a perfect fit (and the Kiev screws are made of steel and very well made).

Yet some years ago I discovered that a broken back open/close key unit of a Contax IIIa could be repaired with a Kiev 4 parts set (for everything which is inside the camera back, not the key being outside the camera and folded back into the camera baseplate, because those Kiev and Zeiss parts aren't of the same size). See attached pics of the inside of this Contax IIIa back which I fixed with some Kiev 4 open/close parts (disc, washer and bolt). And this worked perfectly. On the second photo the original Zeiss parts (golden color) are on the right and the Kiev parts (matte grey color) are on the left. This is good news afterall because this is nothing which would lower any Contax IIa / IIIa value, and better having this repaired with Kiev parts than having to cannibalize a genuine IIa / IIIa back key unit.

AFAIK and from my own repair experience on many postwar Contax bodies this is really the only Kiev part which can be used with success to fix a Contax IIa / IIIa.
But, then, there is at least *one* part which can be used easily. Note : the Kiev donor has to be a late 4 or 4a model. Earlier Kiev bodies parts (II, III, 2a models) won't fit.
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Old 09-04-2018   #35
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Then we go to the Henry Scherer extreme, where he claims only he knows the real secrets of how to properly fix the Contax IIa or IIIa and if you go on his three year waiting list, say a prayer and pay him a hefty fee then you will have the great privilege of a Henry Schererized Contax IIa.


http://zeisscamera.com/about.shtml
Try 9-10 year waiting list!
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Old 09-04-2018   #36
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Try 9-10 year waiting list!
Ridiculous !

By that time most Contax IIa and IIIa aficionados would have lost interest.. or have passed on to that big rangefinder in the sky.

Whilst the post war RF Contax models are not as numerous or popular as M Leicas, there are still some repair techs that actually have figured them out a while back, DAG comes to mind.

And even proficient no fame camera repair techs can become acquainted with them if they acquire a few parts post war Contax RF cameras to dissect if it is in their business and/or curiosity interest to do so.
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Old 09-05-2018   #37
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Any amateur repairer reasonably skilled and owning some high quality small screwdrivers and tweezers can service a Contax IIa / IIIa thanks to the tech notes available out there. Rick Oleson's sketches and pics for instance are just perfect.

It's a matter of patience, logic, and careful method (drawing a lot during the process, taping and marking all small parts in a sheet of paper, etc). It's no rocket science.

This applies to cameras in need of service because they got dirty and gummed up over time but had been working properly at some point. Problematic IIa / IIIa bodies with shutters always travelling closed at high speeds in spite of the "full treatment" including ultrasonic cleaning of all shafts and relubing with the highest quality lubricants or which won't want to fire (especially the "color dial" models) aren't worth the time spent. They will never want to work properly.
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