Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Rangefinder Forum > Optics Theory -

Optics Theory - This forum is aimed towards the TECHNICAL side of photographic OPTICS THEORY. There will be some overlap by camera/manufacturer, but this forum is for the heavy duty tech discussions. This is NOT the place to discuss a specific lens or lens line, do that in the appropriate forum. This is the forum to discuss optics or lenses in general, to learn about the tech behind the lenses and images. IF you have a question about a specific lens, post it in the forum about that type of camera, NOT HERE.

View Poll Results: Which lens do you prefer for using in photography?
SWC with 38mm 20 90.91%
Hologon 16mm/8 2 9.09%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

SWC versus Hologon
Old 12-18-2019   #1
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
SWC versus Hologon

The Hasselblad SWC is a medium format camera with a fixed 38mm 4.5 lens, giving a highly corrected 21mm equivalent view. The Zeiss Hologon is a 16mm /8 fixed aperture lens for 35mm cameras. I gad DAG modify the lens to M mount.

Which of these two lenses would you prefer for landscape photography?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-18-2019   #2
Deardorff38
Registered User
 
Deardorff38's Avatar
 
Deardorff38 is online now
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The Hasselblad SWC is a medium format camera with a fixed 38mm 4.5 lens, giving a highly corrected 21mm equivalent view. The Zeiss Hologon is a 16mm /8 fixed aperture lens for 35mm cameras. I gad DAG modify the lens to M mount.

Which of these two lenses would you prefer for landscape photography?
Superwide everytime....bigger negative better print tonality
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-18-2019   #3
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
I would say (for balance) that using a 35mm lens can be easier to do due to fewer changes of film needed. Using the Hologon on an M8 gives a 21mm view.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-18-2019   #4
jmpgino
Registered User
 
jmpgino is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ga U.S.A now, England before.
Posts: 368
I have just spent two days in my darkroom doing some images in Black and White. My Hasselblad SWC/M produces the most incredible images, it is just a fantastic lens. I am printing stuff from Santorini Greece, Brittany, Italy and Utah USA.
I used three cameras on these vacations, the Hasselblad a Rolleiflex 3.5F with Planar glass and my late Fathers Zeiss Super Ikonta 531/2 folder.
All three cameras have their personalities in the Black and White Medium but as soon as the Super wide Images start to develop, my heart skips a beat waiting for when I can turn the light on and look at what she has just born for me.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-18-2019   #5
Emile de Leon
Registered User
 
Emile de Leon is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,106
How about this Biogon...
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-18-2019   #6
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
OK, so the SWC rules!
Nr. 2 is the Hologon.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-18-2019   #7
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
How about this Biogon...
Which focal length?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-18-2019   #8
Emile de Leon
Registered User
 
Emile de Leon is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,106
Quote:
Which focal length?
53mm on 6x9.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #9
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The Hasselblad SWC is a medium format camera with a fixed 38mm 4.5 lens, giving a highly corrected 21mm equivalent view. The Zeiss Hologon is a 16mm /8 fixed aperture lens for 35mm cameras. I gad DAG modify the lens to M mount.

Which of these two lenses would you prefer for landscape photography?
Likely neither. I generally prefer landscape photography done with a longer focal length.

That said, I do a lot of my photography with ultra wides although I don't really consider them landscape so much. The Hologon is a lovely lens, but for what I like in ultra wide, a larger format is necessary. The SWC is my gold standard... because I also love square format. It gives a very different feel to ultra wide photographs.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #10
besk
Registered User
 
besk is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Carolina (USA)
Posts: 475
I agree with Godfrey above. For landscape photography I prefer a larger format. However, for travel the smaller format may be more practical.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #11
Sonnar2
Registered User
 
Sonnar2's Avatar
 
Sonnar2 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 54
Posts: 1,416
What's wrong with the Super-Wide Heliar 15/4.5 (III)?
I guess the Hologon plays in one league with the LTM-Version of this lens (which was capable of great things at their era).
The Super Elmar 18 isn't a bad lens either, from what I've read.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #12
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
Horseman SW612 with the 35/4.5. Now that is wide.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #13
Sonnar2
Registered User
 
Sonnar2's Avatar
 
Sonnar2 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 54
Posts: 1,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
Horseman SW612 with the 35/4.5. Now that is wide.
that's wide. -

Given it's name, is this camera compact enough to use it from horseback? From a perspective view I found it favorable to shot SW landscapes from an elevated Position
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #14
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnar2 View Post
What's wrong with the Super-Wide Heliar 15/4.5 (III)?
I guess the Hologon plays in one league with the LTM-Version of this lens (which was capable of great things at their era).
The Super Elmar 18 isn't a bad lens either, from what I've read.
The Heliar is better corrected for a digital sensor. The SWC and the Hologon work great with film.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #15
MikeL
Go Fish
 
MikeL's Avatar
 
MikeL is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,202
Like with cars, Raid, there’s no replacement for displacement.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-19-2019   #16
Nokton48
Registered User
 
Nokton48's Avatar
 
Nokton48 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,405
Everybody works differently. IMO wide angle is difficult to do well, compared to longer lens photography. Each rig has different looks. I much prefer viewing through the 40mm Distagon, over the SWC. But it's not stealthy

21mm FOV Cameras 35mm to 4x5 by Nokton48, on Flickr

This is what I use for 21mm FOV photography, 35mm to 4x5. My 4x5 Homemade Sinar Norma Handy is going to get some use. Just cleaned up three 4x5 Graphmatic Backs.
__________________
“The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
― Mark Twain
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2019   #17
ph.
Registered User
 
ph. is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 88
Never used Hasselblad, only Linhof with an ordinary angulon, but back when i had the original Hologon in M mount, I did not like the edge unshapness, so I got rid of it.


p.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2019   #18
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by ph. View Post
Never used Hasselblad, only Linhof with an ordinary angulon, but back when i had the original Hologon in M mount, I did not like the edge unshapness, so I got rid of it.


p.
Did you use the 15mm Hologon or 16mm Version with a film Leica?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2019   #19
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnar2 View Post
that's wide. -

Given it's name, is this camera compact enough to use it from horseback? From a perspective view I found it favorable to shot SW landscapes from an elevated Position
It's a pretty light camera. And yes.

D
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2019   #20
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,798
The SWC and the Hologon are not comparable.


The Hologon on the G1, G2 or Leica is great because of the small size and the superb quality of the optic. The small size is great for mountaineering. Try to use a SWC when you are on the top of the Mount Everest if you can get the camera there.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2019   #21
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
The highest elevation place in Florida is 300 feet high.
Erik is correct about weight and bulk.
For example, I am planning a five day trip by car. It is best to use one camera bag.
Should I pack SWC plus M9 with 35mm lens or pack M3 with Hologon plus M9 and M8 and two lenses? Same bulk. A super wide angle pair is SWC plus Hologon with M3.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2019   #22
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
The SWC and the Hologon are not comparable.

The Hologon on the G1, G2 or Leica is great because of the small size and the superb quality of the optic. The small size is great for mountaineering. Try to use a SWC when you are on the top of the Mount Everest if you can get the camera there.

Erik.
Out of interest, are there any records of a Hologon going to the summit of Everest?
__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-21-2019   #23
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Out of interest, are there any records of a Hologon going to the summit of Everest?

Not that I know, but if I was a mountaineer I would certainly take my Hologon with me to the top.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-22-2019   #24
pluton
Registered User
 
pluton is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 167
Every shot I've ever seen from a Hologon (15 or 16) has pronounced astigmatism away from the center. The Biogon on the SWC does not have that problem.
Also, a small correction:
In order to image the same field as a SWC (38mm on 5.6cm x 5.6cm) you'd have to use a 16mm lens on a 24mmx36mm camera. And crop it to 24x24mm to get the square frame.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-22-2019   #25
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by pluton View Post
Every shot I've ever seen from a Hologon (15 or 16) has pronounced astigmatism away from the center.
I've never seen any astigmatism on my Hologon pictures. Can you give us an example?

Contax G1, Hologon 16mm f/8, Tmax400.

Erik.

  Reply With Quote

Old 12-22-2019   #26
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
Astigmatism should not be seen in images from a Hologon. It is a highly corrected lens with straight lines in the edges.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-22-2019   #27
ph.
Registered User
 
ph. is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 88
In reply to Raid: the original Hologon 15mm made by Zeiss in M-mount for Leitz.


p.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-22-2019   #28
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
Erik posted that the 16mm version is a greatly improved version of the 15mm Hologon.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-26-2019   #29
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 79
Posts: 6,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The highest elevation place in Florida is 300 feet high.
That's on one of the bridges, isn't it? Maybe around Tampa someplace?
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-26-2019   #30
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Erik posted that the 16mm version is a greatly improved version of the 15mm Hologon.

In the top right corner of my picture above you can see a seagull, sharply defined! Not the slightest astigmatism.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-27-2019   #31
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,365
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
That's on one of the bridges, isn't it? Maybe around Tampa someplace?
I think it is a hill outside Tallahassee.
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:28.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.