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Old 01-27-2017   #121
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Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
A museum doesn't care if you do or not. That is my point.
I give up, have a good day... you win.
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Old 01-27-2017   #122
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I really wonder how many more folks would do it if processing were more accessible and cheaper.
Agreed....
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Old 01-27-2017   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
A museum doesn't care if you do or not. That is my point.
It pains me to say it, but Museum's don't care about my preference of briefs over boxers. I've spoken with curators, docents, patrons and even up to director level. They just can't appreciate the support briefs can offer.
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Old 01-27-2017   #124
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Processing could help. The question in my mind, would there be enough volume to keep a business running?

With many, they want to see the photo immediately like a screen on a digital camera. Would a fim camera that a person could immediately see it on a screen, like a digital one, help?

Just some thoughts while I enjoy a cup of coffee.

Your take.
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Old 01-27-2017   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstep3 View Post
I'm just back from a holiday in Angkor Wat, Cambodia. This was over Christmas, so high season.

I didn't see a single film camera. In fact, the preponderance of photos were being taken by phones, a very few by tablets. Of cameras, most were of the compact variety, some mirrorless and a few people had DSLRs. I keep my eyes open for these things too. It was the same when I went to California last Autumn - they were actually selling film in Yosemite, but I didn't see a single film camera other than mine (I took the Contax G2 that time).

Quite frightening really, it must be a real worry for the industry - they used to make great sales of SLRs, then DSLRs, now it seems they are dying on their feet, defeated by the phone industry. My wife just uses her Apple phone and it takes great snaps.

So I had the only film camera in Angkor Wat: it was a Konica Hexar RF if you are interested. If I get the time and inclination I'll put the best shots up on flickr and you can take a look.

rjstep3
Please do. I'd love to see some shots of Angkor Wat. I never made it to Cambodia but I wanted to.

I went to Jakarta in 2011 and met up with some fellas that were film fanatics (loved Leicas / Contax G's etc). I was doubtful about film's resurgence in Southeastern Asia but they were a great counter example. But I also suspect they're a rare breed.
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Old 01-27-2017   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChrome View Post
I really wonder how many more folks would do it if processing were more accessible and cheaper.
I don't think that this is as important as some people think, because
1. In quite a few major markets film and processing is very cheap and easily accessible. E.g. here in Germany you can both get at "every corner of the streets": All drugstore chain shops are offering film and processing (C41, E6 and BW). There are more than 4,000 (!) of such shops in Germany.
Processing costs there are in the 95 cents to 2,55€ range, so next to nothing.
The drugstore chains ship the films for development to several huge mass volume, industrial labs which are developing millions of films p.a.
And of course there are lots of smaller high-quality professional labs, which offer mail service, too.

2. In all major markets are lots of excellent mail order labs which offer very good quality at reasonable prices. A very convenient service: Just put the film in the next mail box, some days later the developed film (and prints) are delivered to your door step. And even in developing countries more and more labs are copying the business model of the mail order labs in the industrialized countries and offer such services.

3. Developing at home is very easy, extremely cheap, and you can get perfect quality. And it is much fun, too. More and more film shooters are discovering that.
One of the reasons why JOBO has introduced two new film processors for home developing in the last three years. They see increasing demand.

4. No matter if you are shooting BW, C41 or E6: In all cases your overall costs including processing per shot are much lower compared to shooting instant film.
Nevertheless instant film has a huge boom for years now.
So if people like the results they get, the cost per shot is not so important.

5. From my experience the biggest problem in the last years has been that lots digital photographers thought there is no more film production at all. That they simply cannot shoot film anymore, even if they want to.
Well, the digital propagandists have told this lie for more than a decade, and dozens of millions believed it.
So with more and more articles about film in the media recently, informing people that there are lots of options to shoot film (even an increasing number of options), more and more people will know that film is alive, and that they can use it.
And the data is indicating that an increasing number is doing that.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-27-2017   #127
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Am I the only one that loves the smell of film? When you crack open a new canister of 35mm, or tear the wrapper off a roll of 120...
I like beer better.
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Old 01-27-2017   #128
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Originally Posted by JChrome View Post
Please do. I'd love to see some shots of Angkor Wat. I never made it to Cambodia but I wanted to.

I went to Jakarta in 2011 and met up with some fellas that were film fanatics (loved Leicas / Contax G's etc). I was doubtful about film's resurgence in Southeastern Asia but they were a great counter example. But I also suspect they're a rare breed.
New film lab in Jakarta, run by film enthusiasts:
http://www.soupnfilm.com/
Including E6 processing.

I know of recently opened new labs in Malaysia, Mexico and Thailand, too.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-27-2017   #129
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5. From my experience the biggest problem in the last years has been that lots digital photographers thought there is no more film production at all. That they simply cannot shoot film anymore, even if they want to.
Well, the digital propagandists have told this lie for more than a decade, and dozens of millions believed it.
So with more and more articles about film in the media recently, informing people that there are lots of options to shoot film (even an increasing number of options), more and more people will know that film is alive, and that they can use it.
And the data is indicating that an increasing number is doing that.


I find this true as well. I've been asked many times "can you still get film for that camera?" when out with an old film camera. The upside is sometimes finding a gem at a flea market.
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Old 01-27-2017   #130
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HH
allow me to disagree
You speak for Germany
Here in Italy it is a film desert
To resume shooting film I plan to send my rolls in England
And costs are huge
Paul
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Old 01-27-2017   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistach View Post
HH
allow me to disagree
You speak for Germany
Here in Italy it is a film desert
To resume shooting film I plan to send my rolls in England
And costs are huge
Paul


2,50€ process I haven't seen for a long time, nevertheless for E6.
I am in spain and C41 dev only is around 4,50€, E6 towards 9€ a roll of 125.

Ironically Spain used to be not as nice as places like Japan, which used to be "Mecca" but now prices are far lower! since there's a lab that opened with the online model and sells film too, people from abroad send the film here.
Dev&Scan is 12€+ though. Steep for an amateur and quantity.

UK with brexit and GBP devaluation was nice to get some Kodak Film very cheap.


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Old 01-27-2017   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistach View Post
HH
allow me to disagree
You speak for Germany
Here in Italy it is a film desert
I know Italy is a very weak film market compared to other European markets.
But even in Italy the situation is improving. Ars-imago has just opened a new store in Rome with 4x more space than its former shop, because of strongly increasing business. They are also offering a complete mail order service for films, photo papers, chemicals, cameras and even film processing.
http://www.ars-imago.com/index.php?language=en
http://www.ars-imago.com/index.php?language=it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistach View Post
To resume shooting film I plan to send my rolls in England
And costs are huge
Paul
There is an excellent lab in Trieste: Agenzia Luce. They are also offering mail order service.
http://www.agenzialuce.it/

Other option:
Send to Germany, Photo Studio 13.
http://www.photostudio13.de/
Excellent quality, international business and much cheaper than sending to England.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-27-2017   #133
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If Germany is like that, it’s very different from France too.

In France, certainly there are labs to develop film, but the cost is non-trivial. The ones I use charge around €6 for C-41 or €11–12 for E-6. That’s development only, no prints or scans.

For typical volumes, mail order is more expensive because of shipping costs.

These prices may not deter well-heeled gentlemen amateurs. But they limit struggling artists, the very people who could do something wonderful with film.
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Old 01-27-2017   #134
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@ Prest 400:
A friend of mine in Spain is very satiesfied with this lab:
http://www.interphoto.es/

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-27-2017   #135
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Hit me with your French labs, Jan!
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Old 01-27-2017   #136
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Hit me with your French labs, Jan!
Sorry Samuel, Arka in Paris is the only recommended one I know of (a friend in Paris is using it):
http://www.arkalab.com/arka-labo-pho...ographique.php

But developing at home or sending to Germany (Photo Studio 13, see above) are also options. E6 at Photo Studio 13 is even cheaper than C41 (!), and 120 E6 is only about 4,4€ per roll.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-27-2017   #137
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The question "do you still find film" is quite common in Italy!

From Italy I am satisfied when I send my C-41 and B&W film to carmencita film lab in Spain: quality is good and in a few days I can download the scans.

for high quality works in Milan there is this lab: http://www.studiofahrenheit.it

In my town there is also a lab which develops C-41 at reasonable price.

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Old 01-27-2017   #138
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Concerning Carmencita lab in Spain:

They are very expensive compared to German professional labs. And German labs offer much more different services, too.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-27-2017   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
The question "do you still find film" is quite common in Italy!

From Italy I am satisfied when I send my C-41 and B&W film to carmencita film lab in Spain: quality is good and in a few days I can download the scans.
(...)
robert
Carmencita I was referring to. They have an intense online (IG) presence and clients from all over. Russian Customers seem to have quite some importance.
The irony is that I sent a few summer rolls to a Russian lab, 16€ here vs 8€ a roll there, scanned on Frontier... nice files but long turnaround (post). So Russians send film to Spain and Spanish send film to Russia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Concerning Carmencita lab in Spain:

They are very expensive compared to German professional labs. And German labs offer much more different services, too.

Cheers, Jan
Interphoto is one of the best labs (if not the best) in Spain for development, done Dip and Dunk. Used them a few times long time ago, and probably will again because of doing E6; however I must batch for mailorder.

Carmencita is relatively expensive, BUT, They are following the model of the FINDlab, Indie, Richard, etc. which are priced Higher (now, the Spanish economic standards are lower). These allow sending film, storage of negatives to save up continuous postage back while scans are sent online.
The scans are "premium" with rather individual adjustment. 15€ with taxes for 3600x2400px scans.

The great thing they have are film prices, almost distributor level, and head to head with places like Macodirect, Fotoimpex. Some films are 2-3€ from stores. I live 200km north of Valencia and once was able to take the train, stroll Valencia (nice city) and pick up some negs and film.

***
I'd love a cheap tiff large and raw Frontier/Noritsu scanning service. In berlin there are some guys (Film Scan Berlin) that have a SP3000 and rent it out or something like that.
The large and RAW I'd love for Medium Format, because small files kind of underwhelm the raison d'etre of MF. I have a v550, do 120 myself and they are fair scans, still not maximizing but I have more resolution and control over lab results...
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Old 01-27-2017   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
Processing could help. The question in my mind, would there be enough volume to keep a business running?

With many, they want to see the photo immediately like a screen on a digital camera. Would a fim camera that a person could immediately see it on a screen, like a digital one, help?

Just some thoughts while I enjoy a cup of coffee.

Your take.
Hi,

There was one, it as the Kodak Advantix Preview and have a small LCD screen at the back showing what you'd just taken on the film. Alas it was APS...

Regards, David
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Old 01-27-2017   #141
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Film prices in the UK start here. My local lab does a develop and scan to CD for about three pounds. Very useful when I've just spent another pound on a film camera and need to know if it works.

Regards, David
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Old 01-27-2017   #142
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Film development in Belgium isn't hard, but prices are nowhere near Germany. I pay 6 euro for b&w or colour, 7 euro for slides. 100% surcharge for push/pull. But they do 4x( or 18x13 as well (but that are other prices). Scanning is possible but you better do not ask that price. And we are talking development only.

Don't know why Italy would be such a problem, Ferrania is the only one that is really starting up new production!
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Old 01-27-2017   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I give up, have a good day... you win.
I think I was too vague, I meant to imply that museums do not care if you value the authenticity of film or not, not to imply that museums reject work of those who don't.

I also don't give a rat's toot if somebody places no value on authenticity. As long as they don't try to tell me a plainly obvious fact is not a thing just because it doesn't suit their particular concepts. If everybody had the same priorities, photography would be a lot less interesting. Which is another reason for film, photography is a lot more interesting if people are shooting on different mediums, printing on different mediums, and so on. I don't believe film photography to be "more photography" than digital. Just that film itself is a tangible, visual, artifact, in a way digital cannot be. This doesn't make a digital image any less real, just less tangible.

Bringing it round to my original point, a lot of people enjoy working with their hands. In this day and age when life is saturated with phones and games, and streaming content - when you don't even go to a store and buy a CD or a tape to listen to music, actually having and working with a tangible medium can be immensely satisfying.
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Old 01-27-2017   #144
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Hi,

It might be an idea to write on the back just who the picture is of and the date. Nothing's more annoying than a good photo of someone without knowing who it is or was in relation to you, the family and so on.

Regards, David
Although a good image is worth thousand words!
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Old 01-27-2017   #145
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Thanks everybody for interesting info
HH,
I wrote to ars-imago some time ago. They have an external lab here in Italy. They suggested to send a roll just to test the lab
Come on! One cannot shoot the same photo twice.
I am considering Ag Lab in Birmingham. Expensive but they have Imacon scanners.
Anybody that can tell me how good it is?
Regards
Paul
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Old 01-27-2017   #146
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Another problem for me regarding Germany is that German internet sites seldom have an English version
I would have liked to learn German but I could never find the time
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Old 01-28-2017   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
Just that film itself is a tangible, visual, artifact, in a way digital cannot be. This doesn't make a digital image any less real, just less tangible.
It also doesn't make digital any less authentic which is also my main point. It may seem intuitive to you that tangibility and authenticity have something to do with each other, but that's just not the case.
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Old 01-28-2017   #148
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Developing B/W film is dead easy and cheap. Google Diafine. Dirt cheap, lasts forever, almost idiot proof. A simple set up with a cheap light table and DSLR on a tripod to scan your negatives and you are all set. I shoot during the week and develop on the weekends.

This is a simple scan that I left a bit rough so you can see it is film. Took seconds to scan with my D7200 and invert in Lightroom. The full res version is great.

leica M3 DS, Leica Summicron 50MM DR, Kodak T-Max 400.
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Old 01-28-2017   #149
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Developing B/W film is dead easy and cheap. Google Diafine. Dirt cheap, lasts forever, almost idiot proof. A simple set up with a cheap light table and DSLR on a tripod to scan your negatives and you are all set. I shoot during the week and develop on the weekends.

This is a simple scan that I left a bit rough so you can see it is film. Took seconds to scan with my D7200 and invert in Lightroom. The full res version is great.

leica M3 DS, Leica Summicron 50MM DR, Kodak T-Max 400.
Im trying the DLSR scanning now - which is convenient if you already have a DSLR! My first attempts were ok until I compared them to the equivalent pro Noritsu scan. Then they were lacking. I think camera shake is to blame so I have ordered a remote release. Using the self timer didn't help as my D750 does not raise the mirror prior to release. And if you raise the mirror, you need the remote release..
I have noticed from my initial attempts that it will be really really difficult to match the colour of proper C41 scans, so I may have to limit this to B&W and slide films.
It also made me realize how good the scans are that I get from northcoastphoto and thefindlab!
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Old 01-28-2017   #150
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Quote:
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cue: sustainability.

Archivability and aesthetics drive the film renaissance in the movie industry. That's what they tell us anyway. Film, however, degrades over time. Many early/silent films are completely lost, the originals being either dumped or degraded beyond salvation.The numbers are staggering: 90% of silent films are lost. When the industry caught up to what was happening they started restoring and reduplicating the originals,the latter being a very important step (and echoes of this process are to be found in - yes - digital copying). For this reason film-based and digital-based archival methods should not be seen as antagonistic but as complementary.

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Old 01-28-2017   #151
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Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
Which is another reason for film, photography is a lot more interesting if people are shooting on different mediums, printing on different mediums, and so on. I don't believe film photography to be "more photography" than digital. Just that film itself is a tangible, visual, artifact, in a way digital cannot be. This doesn't make a digital image any less real, just less tangible.

Bringing it round to my original point, a lot of people enjoy working with their hands. In this day and age when life is saturated with phones and games, and streaming content - when you don't even go to a store and buy a CD or a tape to listen to music, actually having and working with a tangible medium can be immensely satisfying.
I can understand this.
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Old 01-31-2017   #152
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Thanks everybody for interesting info
HH,
I wrote to ars-imago some time ago. They have an external lab here in Italy. They suggested to send a roll just to test the lab
Come on! One cannot shoot the same photo twice.
Quite a lot has changed and improved at ars-imago lateley. Certainly worth it to contact them again.
And
http://www.agenzialuce.it/
is a very good Italian lab in Trieste. They are doing mail order business as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistach View Post
I am considering Ag Lab in Birmingham. Expensive but they have Imacon scanners.
Anybody that can tell me how good it is?
Regards
Paul
I've heard good comments about them. But if you really want to send film abroad, the German labs probably offer the better price-performance ratio.

By the way: Most Germans speak English, too.
And you can contact a leading German lab like www.photostudio13.de
in English with no problems. Just send them an email in English. They are doing international business.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-31-2017   #153
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My city is pretty hip and has it's own film camera shop that I visit occasionally, and I'm rarely the only customer. Seems to be doing well.

Out and about here in the last few months I've seen a VERY hip guy with a TLR of some sort, a girl at a protest with a nice Nikon FE and, the other day, a girl with a Pentax MX that I was jealous of.

I've also regularly seen people using the 1 hour photo at Boots, and another print shop has refreshed it's film stock and put up new posters for developing and printing.

So yeah, at least where I am, I'm noticing a trend in favour of film.
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Old 01-31-2017   #154
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My city is pretty hip and has it's own film camera shop that I visit occasionally, and I'm rarely the only customer. Seems to be doing well.

So yeah, at least where I am, I'm noticing a trend in favour of film.
Hi,

may I ask where you are living and what the name of the film camera shop is?

Thanks in advance, Jan
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Old 02-01-2017   #155
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Hi,

may I ask where you are living and what the name of the film camera shop is?

Thanks in advance, Jan
Leeds in the North of England. Shop is called West Yorkshire Cameras. Would recommend if you're ever here!
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Old 02-01-2017   #156
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Leeds in the North of England. Shop is called West Yorkshire Cameras. Would recommend if you're ever here!
Thank you! Nice to see film is doing well in the North of England.
Generally the UK is the second biggest film market in Europe, behind Germany, which is at first position.

I've already heard of West Yorkshire Cameras in the past! Only good stories and recommendations.
http://wycameras.com/
I am convinced that such enthusiast shops (as "brick and mortar" shops, in combination with lab services) will get an increased importance in the future for film shooters.
We will probably see more of them in the future (like the increasing number of vinyl shops).

Cheers, Jan
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Old 02-01-2017   #157
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Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
The question "do you still find film" is quite common in Italy!

From Italy I am satisfied when I send my C-41 and B&W film to carmencita film lab in Spain: quality is good and in a few days I can download the scans.

for high quality works in Milan there is this lab: http://www.studiofahrenheit.it

In my town there is also a lab which develops C-41 at reasonable price.

robert
Another excellent lab in Milan is Puntofoto ( www.puntofoto.it ) which developes the negs internally and have a wide range of film materials. The cost for a C41 is about 6€.
And when I don't have time to go there I rely on a little store in my city which ship the negs to a bigger industrial lab for just 3.50€.
I don't think the situation in Italy is a 'film desert' as someone said above as there are still different labs and physical stores around.
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