Fix the M2, or get an M6?
Old 08-27-2016   #1
unixrevolution
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Fix the M2, or get an M6?

Hey all. I know I've been starting a bunch of threads like these, but I trust your opinions and guidance.

I had my Leica M2 brought back to life after several decades out of service with the original owner by Ken Ruth back in 2010. The camera got a CLA and I got it back and was quite happy.

I can't remember if it took a bump or what, but the RF is out of vertical alignment again, and that is very annoying. But I have been soldiering on and still enjoying it.

Then recently, I inspected the shutter and found the trailing shutter curtain looks like a planetarium when you hold it up to light. Not only that, but the curtain is starting to stick, and will probably break if not serviced.

I talked to Sherry Krauter, who came highly reccomended and had a website that actually worked, and found the CLA to set the VF right and fix any other issues, as well as replacement of both curtains, will cost around $500.

Thinking about that, I had a conundrum. If the camera's worth much of anything, I could probably save that $500, combine it with what I get from my M2, and get one of the less expensive M6s. I have found from shooting my Bessa R2 (Blasphemy!) that having an in-built meter is a huge help to working quickly and getting a shot I might have missed otherwise.

My questions to you are:

1. Is the M6 superior or inferior to the M2 in any other ways besides the lightmeter?

2. Is my valuation of a needy M2 vs. a Decent M6 valid, as far as cost goes?

3. Would sticking with the meterless M, and using my Bessa for times when I really need the meter, make me a better photographer?

I shoot a variety of other meterless cameras, including 4x5 and 8x10 view cameras, a Medalist, TLRs and scale focus cameras. I just think that perhaps, of all the cameras I should have with a meter, the "Decisive Moment" M camera should be one of them.

Am I crazy?
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Old 08-27-2016   #2
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formatting keeps breaking (not sure why). Youxin can probably do curtains and a CLA for closer to $200 +/- 50. M6 will have the faster loading, but a flare-prone finder, different build quality that many aren't too fond of when compared to M3/2/4, and some people grumble about less accurate framelines (don't know about that though). Unless you're doing slide stuff, metering is convenient but Sunny-11 or Sunny-16 can usually get you close enough and if you do it a lot, generally almost spot on. My vote is keep the M2 and get it CLA'd, unless you want the faster loading and/or a meter. Hand-held is going to be better than the M6, though, albeit less convenient.
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Old 08-27-2016   #3
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M2 is my favorite film M. Have two from 1959 and one is the prettiest Sherry has said she has seen in a long while. It was $1200 from her last year. The second I just got CLA'ed by Youxin Ye and it is the smoothest camera I have ever used but not as pretty. Have an M5 coming from Sherry and having a hard time justifying 3 film M's.

Both M2 and M6 are great cameras. I love the simplicity of the M2 viewfinder but find the meter on the M6 great for use. I would pay for the M2 and give Youxin Ye a call. He is usually cheaper then Sherry. Both do great work.
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Old 08-27-2016   #4
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After reading the title I have instant answer. Fix M2, get M6.
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Old 08-27-2016   #5
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While it may be fun to own an M2 and an M6, if you had financial constraints, it may be cheaper overall to get an M6 in good condition. The alternative is to fix the M2 and get a Leica MR meter to put on top of it. The MR-4 is a selective area meter, in that it has the same field of view as a 90mm lens. You need only activate the 90mm frameline and meter.

I just finished a trip to Toronto, and I brought my M7 and M4-2 with MR-4. After a day with the single framelines of the M4-2 (except for 35/135), the double framelines in the M7 came as a shock. The M4-2 was not much slower than the M7, as once you have an exposure reading you don't need to change the EV unless lighting changes. With the M7 on AUTO I'm used to metering, locking in the setting with a half depressed shutter button, then recomposing.

With respect to the two cameras you are considering:
The M2 has brass top and bottom. The M6 is zinc. There is a risk of bubbling occurring on some M6 finishes. The bubbling is not curable.

The M2 has an extra condenser in the rangefinder system which prevents flare when composing against the light. The M6 lacks this, and can flare the RF patch. I had two early M7s which lacked this feature: 0.72X and 0.85X. Both flared in backlight, especially the 0.85X. Both have had the condenser put in by Leica NJ, USA for $600 each. I know Don Goldberg does these upgrades for less, but he couldn't upgrade the DX film speed reader that my M7s had, so they had to go to Leica.

M6 will take the Leica Motor M or the Leicavit M. This depends on how much action you shoot. If you are a deliberate large format shooter, this may not be a consideration to you. There is a Leicavit that fits the M2, but it is very, very costly. DAG has modified an M3 to take the Motor M for me, and I'm sure he could modify your M2 to take these winders if you need them.

If you do go for an M6, I'd recommend the TTL version. The shutter dial then rotates in the direction indicated by the LEDs, which makes use much more convenient. That's why I like my M7. The TTL has a much larger shutter speed dial than the tiny dial on the M2 or M6 classic. If you keep the M2, that's the main reason I recommend the MR meter - it gives you a large shutter speed dial that overhangs the camera edge, comme le M5. It makes using the M2 much easier.

These are my user observations from using and owning an M2, M3, M4-2, M5, and M7 (as a substitute for M6TTL).
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Old 08-27-2016   #6
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The M2 should have had new curtains in 2010.

Do it now along with CLA and new light shields around shutter.

M2,3,4 are all better cameras than what came later. Frame lines are better, advance smoother, no flare condenser in finder. Risk of vulcanite covering breaking up. Most early M are /were pro cameras and are well used.

M6 has a meter. Some failures of frame counter, zink top is crap, light shields failed in both of mine 20 years ago, can not adjust RF vertical with simple screw driver as you can with the M2. Steel transport gears should last longer.

M6 are old enough now such that the chances of buying one not needing service are low. So the money gets spent anyway.
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Old 08-27-2016   #7
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I've owned both M2 and M6. Both great, both a have a loyal following for various reasons. You own a M2, you know what it needs, I'd repair it. Unless the meter is a deal breaker for you, I'd go M2. You can buy a beater M6, but may find yourself in the same boat having to CLA/repair that as well.
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Old 08-27-2016   #8
Tom A
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The M2 with the current problems is worth very little. Few buyers are willing to pay for a body that requires major service. Ince you have had it overhauled you might as well keep it. It is one of the best M cameras around, simple and easy yo handle - and you know what it can do.
Used M6's can be fine - but if they need service, it pricey. Don't worry about the zinc top-plate. If it has no bubbles in it now, probably won't develop them later. Viewfinder is usually OK - but busy after the M2's 35/50/90 set up. Early M6's could have problems with the meter circuit - but if it had - it has most likely been fixed. The meter is handy and good. I do prefer the M6 >< display to the M6 TTL >o< read out.
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Old 08-27-2016   #9
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Get the M2 fixed. $500 from Sherry will make it all well for many years.

I can say nothing bad about the M6, but M2 is such a classic.

B2 (;->
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Old 08-27-2016   #10
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since you already have a bessa r2, I would just fix the m2. saving some money by sending it to youxin is not a bad idea.
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Old 08-27-2016   #11
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without capturing the thread, thinking of getting an M2 myself, I shoot since years without light meter and normally adjust the times quite often, how easy is it with the small speed dial on the M2, possible with the index finger only?

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Old 08-27-2016   #12
Erik van Straten
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Sell both and get an M5, serviced by Sherry.

Erik.
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Old 08-28-2016   #13
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I have an M2 and an M6, both in good condition. I don't need a meter for casual snapshots, but for the best tonality, careful, accurate exposure usually beats an estimate. If I didn't care about that, I wouldn't even bother using Leica equipment. Since I take pictures for the sake of the pictures, not for the romance of using a classic camera, I generally use the M6 for the convenience of the built-in meter, rather than the M2.
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Old 08-28-2016   #14
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There's something about the M2 that I really like. It seems simpler than my M6 and I love the film advance lever, and the rewind, and the simple frame lines.

If it were me I'd have either Sherry or DAG service the M2 and bring it back into spec. It should last you a very long time after that.

I know the frustrations sometimes of not having a meter in camera. I get that with my M3 quite a bit. But again, for me at least, even having to use a handheld meter or sunny 16, I just get more joy out of shooting an M2 or M3 than I get with shooting my M6.
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Old 08-28-2016   #15
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I own both as well! and I have a different relationship with both.

When I started using the M2, I guess it trained me to get used to myself judging the light and all that. Sometimes I look back and think that I actually shot better photos on my M2, just because I didn't have the light meter arrows around, and I would concentrate on the shot.

The M6 however, is useful, yes because of the light meter BUT, it depends what you are shooting. When I did backstage fashion, I had troubles on my M2 because the light changed so much. The M6 would have worked well for those kind of photos.

Now however, I use the M6 more (also because of the 28mm frame lines), and heck, if your M6 runs out of battery, you can use it without a lightmeter.

The feel for both cameras are extremely different too.
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Old 08-28-2016   #16
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Unless you find one that has been recently serviced, it is possible, if not likely, that the M6 you get might need servicing sooner rather than later. I own an M6TTL from the last year of production (2002) that recently went in for service and had its shutter curtains replaced. It may be cheaper in the long run to have the M2 serviced.
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Old 08-28-2016   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy View Post
formatting keeps breaking (not sure why). Youxin can probably do curtains and a CLA for closer to $200 +/- 50. M6 will have the faster loading, but a flare-prone finder, different build quality that many aren't too fond of when compared to M3/2/4, and some people grumble about less accurate framelines (don't know about that though). Unless you're doing slide stuff, metering is convenient but Sunny-11 or Sunny-16 can usually get you close enough and if you do it a lot, generally almost spot on. My vote is keep the M2 and get it CLA'd, unless you want the faster loading and/or a meter. Hand-held is going to be better than the M6, though, albeit less convenient.
THe M2s are kind of amazing in their build quality aren't they? And I do find the framelines match up quite well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrider View Post
M2 is my favorite film M. Have two from 1959 and one is the prettiest Sherry has said she has seen in a long while. It was $1200 from her last year. The second I just got CLA'ed by Youxin Ye and it is the smoothest camera I have ever used but not as pretty. Have an M5 coming from Sherry and having a hard time justifying 3 film M's.

Both M2 and M6 are great cameras. I love the simplicity of the M2 viewfinder but find the meter on the M6 great for use. I would pay for the M2 and give Youxin Ye a call. He is usually cheaper then Sherry. Both do great work.
The M2's finder with just the three available framelines is nice. IT also helps tame my LBA just a little. I've sent a mail to Mr. Ye and he's about 50 bucks cheaper than Sherry. $50 is $50, and his reputation is just as good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
After reading the title I have instant answer. Fix M2, get M6.
IF you're willing to pay for one or both of them, sure. But I don't have that kind of budget. It's Either-or.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
While it may be fun to own an M2 and an M6, if you had financial constraints, it may be cheaper overall to get an M6 in good condition. The alternative is to fix the M2 and get a Leica MR meter to put on top of it. The MR-4 is a selective area meter, in that it has the same field of view as a 90mm lens. You need only activate the 90mm frameline and meter.
I do have constraints, and the m6 might indeed be cheaper all told, depending on the M6. I do like the idea of the MR-4 meter though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
I just finished a trip to Toronto, and I brought my M7 and M4-2 with MR-4. After a day with the single framelines of the M4-2 (except for 35/135), the double framelines in the M7 came as a shock. The M4-2 was not much slower than the M7, as once you have an exposure reading you don't need to change the EV unless lighting changes. With the M7 on AUTO I'm used to metering, locking in the setting with a half depressed shutter button, then recomposing.
I can definitely see that, and after shooting a roll in the M2 just to have it in my hands again, I can definitely see where it doesn't slow one down much. Even using a totally separate meter it wasn't bad; it also teaches you to read light rather than let the camera do it. And the technique you describe on the M7 I use a lot on my SLRs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
With respect to the two cameras you are considering:
The M2 has brass top and bottom. The M6 is zinc. There is a risk of bubbling occurring on some M6 finishes. The bubbling is not curable.

The M2 has an extra condenser in the rangefinder system which prevents flare when composing against the light. The M6 lacks this, and can flare the RF patch. I had two early M7s which lacked this feature: 0.72X and 0.85X. Both flared in backlight, especially the 0.85X. Both have had the condenser put in by Leica NJ, USA for $600 each. I know Don Goldberg does these upgrades for less, but he couldn't upgrade the DX film speed reader that my M7s had, so they had to go to Leica.
That sounds un-good for sure, and I do like the build quality of my M. THe lack of flare in the VF is probably something I"d notice if I had an M6, but I don't see my Bessa doing it, either. Still, an advantage is an advantage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
M6 will take the Leica Motor M or the Leicavit M. This depends on how much action you shoot. If you are a deliberate large format shooter, this may not be a consideration to you. There is a Leicavit that fits the M2, but it is very, very costly. DAG has modified an M3 to take the Motor M for me, and I'm sure he could modify your M2 to take these winders if you need them.
My usual style with an M is to shoot street/crowds, some action, but I don't think I need a motor drive or a Leicavit, and it's not like I can afford them anyway. The m2 Leicavit is a definite no. If anything, I may get the Voigtlander trigger winder for the Bessa someday. But my "action" cameras for sports and the like are typically DSLR and Mirrorless, not my film M.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
If you do go for an M6, I'd recommend the TTL version. The shutter dial then rotates in the direction indicated by the LEDs, which makes use much more convenient. That's why I like my M7. The TTL has a much larger shutter speed dial than the tiny dial on the M2 or M6 classic. If you keep the M2, that's the main reason I recommend the MR meter - it gives you a large shutter speed dial that overhangs the camera edge, comme le M5. It makes using the M2 much easier.

These are my user observations from using and owning an M2, M3, M4-2, M5, and M7 (as a substitute for M6TTL).
I appreciate your advice and time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
The M2 should have had new curtains in 2010.

Do it now along with CLA and new light shields around shutter.

M2,3,4 are all better cameras than what came later. Frame lines are better, advance smoother, no flare condenser in finder. Risk of vulcanite covering breaking up. Most early M are /were pro cameras and are well used.

M6 has a meter. Some failures of frame counter, zink top is crap, light shields failed in both of mine 20 years ago, can not adjust RF vertical with simple screw driver as you can with the M2. Steel transport gears should last longer.

M6 are old enough now such that the chances of buying one not needing service are low. So the money gets spent anyway.
I was silly and was relying on the previous overhaul technician Ken Ruth to inform me if the curtains were going bad. He did not, so I didn't think to get them replaced. I do plan on replacing both curtains with the next CLA. The leading curtain is OK, but I'm not leaving it.

But that's another statement echoing the praise for the early build quality of the M2/3/4. I have to agree. As for my Vulcanite, that's long gone and replaced with green leather. And that is a lot of good reasons not to spring for the 6, including the fact that I'd probably have to have it serviced right away anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeChong View Post
I've owned both M2 and M6. Both great, both a have a loyal following for various reasons. You own a M2, you know what it needs, I'd repair it. Unless the meter is a deal breaker for you, I'd go M2. You can buy a beater M6, but may find yourself in the same boat having to CLA/repair that as well.
You have a very good point. I know my M2 pretty well and a known quantity is almost always better than an the unknown a new-to-me M6 would be. The Meter's not that big a deal, especially with the afore-described metering options for the M2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom A View Post
The M2 with the current problems is worth very little. Few buyers are willing to pay for a body that requires major service. Ince you have had it overhauled you might as well keep it. It is one of the best M cameras around, simple and easy yo handle - and you know what it can do.
Used M6's can be fine - but if they need service, it pricey. Don't worry about the zinc top-plate. If it has no bubbles in it now, probably won't develop them later. Viewfinder is usually OK - but busy after the M2's 35/50/90 set up. Early M6's could have problems with the meter circuit - but if it had - it has most likely been fixed. The meter is handy and good. I do prefer the M6 >< display to the M6 TTL >o< read out.
Thanks, Tom! I agree the value of my half-broken M won't be much if I try to sell it. I can't get to the sale price of the M6 for that plus the repair. ANd thanks for the advice of the M6, as well. The TTL readout sounds similar to the one I'm already fairly used to in my Bessa though

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
Get the M2 fixed. $500 from Sherry will make it all well for many years.

I can say nothing bad about the M6, but M2 is such a classic.

B2 (;->
Agreed. It may be Youxin Ye, not Sherry, but either way, it'll be good for another half century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
since you already have a bessa r2, I would just fix the m2. saving some money by sending it to youxin is not a bad idea.
I think that's just what I'll do. the $50 saved can buy me some film or go toward a new lens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mod2001 View Post
without capturing the thread, thinking of getting an M2 myself, I shoot since years without light meter and normally adjust the times quite often, how easy is it with the small speed dial on the M2, possible with the index finger only?

Yogi
Feel free to threadjack I just tried rotating the film speed dial with a fingertip with the camera to my eye. It's really not bad! Easier than my MX, not quite as easy as the Bessa. I can see that being even easier with the meter's larger wheel on top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Sell both and get an M5, serviced by Sherry.

Erik.
What in particular makes you reccomend the M5?
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Old 08-28-2016   #18
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Originally Posted by richard_l View Post
I have an M2 and an M6, both in good condition. I don't need a meter for casual snapshots, but for the best tonality, careful, accurate exposure usually beats an estimate. If I didn't care about that, I wouldn't even bother using Leica equipment. Since I take pictures for the sake of the pictures, not for the romance of using a classic camera, I generally use the M6 for the convenience of the built-in meter, rather than the M2.
That is completely sensible. For snaps I can see using the M2 with an addon meter or perhaps by guessing. For more serious work, it's the Bessa, or the m2 with one of my good exposure meters, like my Pentax spotmeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
There's something about the M2 that I really like. It seems simpler than my M6 and I love the film advance lever, and the rewind, and the simple frame lines.

If it were me I'd have either Sherry or DAG service the M2 and bring it back into spec. It should last you a very long time after that.

I know the frustrations sometimes of not having a meter in camera. I get that with my M3 quite a bit. But again, for me at least, even having to use a handheld meter or sunny 16, I just get more joy out of shooting an M2 or M3 than I get with shooting my M6.
It's all about how it makes you feel, and the pictures you get, in the end. And I think I'm going to do exactly that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sara View Post
I own both as well! and I have a different relationship with both.

When I started using the M2, I guess it trained me to get used to myself judging the light and all that. Sometimes I look back and think that I actually shot better photos on my M2, just because I didn't have the light meter arrows around, and I would concentrate on the shot.

The M6 however, is useful, yes because of the light meter BUT, it depends what you are shooting. When I did backstage fashion, I had troubles on my M2 because the light changed so much. The M6 would have worked well for those kind of photos.

Now however, I use the M6 more (also because of the 28mm frame lines), and heck, if your M6 runs out of battery, you can use it without a lightmeter.

The feel for both cameras are extremely different too.
I can believe that for sure, just from shooting my Bessa and my Leica together. I don't really think I need the 28mm framelines because I'd need a 28mm lens for them to be useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajramirez View Post
Unless you find one that has been recently serviced, it is possible, if not likely, that the M6 you get might need servicing sooner rather than later. I own an M6TTL from the last year of production (2002) that recently went in for service and had its shutter curtains replaced. It may be cheaper in the long run to have the M2 serviced.
If the newest ones need service by now, then yes, I'd have to hope for, or look for, one that's been serviced already.

The official verdict: The M2 stays.
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Old 08-28-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unixrevolution View Post


What in particular makes you reccomend the M5?
It is the best M-Leica. It has the most precise frames (one at a time), an ideal not disturbing analog lightmeter (very sensible) and the best build quality of all the M-Leicas. Try one and you'll be convinced.

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Old 08-28-2016   #20
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"The M2 stays"

Good choice.
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Old 08-28-2016   #21
Eric T
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Get the M2 fixed and use the "sunny 16" rule for metering.
And you still have the Bessa R2.
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Old 08-28-2016   #22
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Good choice on keeping the M2. I have to second the idea of an M5. It is the only M film body that I had never owned up to the MP/M7. I got one from Sherry, shot it for a week and returned it, primarily as I already owned two M2's. Well, a few weeks later I changed my mind, called her up to add the third lug and replace the vulcanite. Now, I am waiting for the camera.

It really does have the best metering of any Leica (owned both M6 and M6TTL) and currently own an M9 (M7 but digital). Being able to see the shutter speed in the viewfinder is great. It is a bit heavier then my M2's which I noticed. The slightly larger size went unnoticed and I figure it will mate well with my 35f1.2 beast.

Take a look at the VC meter if you cannot find an MR-4 to your liking. Being solid state it is a bit more shock proof. I use one on my M2 when I feel the need for a reflected light meter and it has the same field of view as a 90mm lens, just like the MR-4.
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Old 08-28-2016   #23
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Good to keep the M2. Its just a great camera and you shouldn't feel like its "lesser" than the M6.

I have an M2 and an M6 (and an M3). My M6 is broken beyond economical repair. I haven't yet had the urge to repair it (and may never).

In the meantime, I've learned to love my M2. My exposures are reasonable, and my mental meter improves every time I take it out. I should say, however, that I've been using the mental meter (with more than just the M2) for more years than I care to admit, so I would hope I hit exposure more often than not.

For about a year now, I've been longing for another film M camera. One to work in tandem with my M9 (I like to use both film and digital, each to their strength). That "new" camera is almost certain to be an M6TTL. So........nobody rush out and start driving the prices up, OK? Of course, all depends on that fickle budget. Might be a while...
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Old 08-28-2016   #24
unixrevolution
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
It is the best M-Leica. It has the most precise frames (one at a time), an ideal not disturbing analog lightmeter (very sensible) and the best build quality of all the M-Leicas. Try one and you'll be convinced.

Erik.
If I ever get the chance, I will.

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Originally Posted by Talus View Post
"The M2 stays"

Good choice.
I feel like it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric T View Post
Get the M2 fixed and use the "sunny 16" rule for metering.
And you still have the Bessa R2.
Exactly. Having the Bessa as my metered M option means the M6's meter isn't the ultimate appeal. And I've gotten really, really good stuff out of the Bessa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrider View Post
Good choice on keeping the M2. I have to second the idea of an M5. It is the only M film body that I had never owned up to the MP/M7. I got one from Sherry, shot it for a week and returned it, primarily as I already owned two M2's. Well, a few weeks later I changed my mind, called her up to add the third lug and replace the vulcanite. Now, I am waiting for the camera.

It really does have the best metering of any Leica (owned both M6 and M6TTL) and currently own an M9 (M7 but digital). Being able to see the shutter speed in the viewfinder is great. It is a bit heavier then my M2's which I noticed. The slightly larger size went unnoticed and I figure it will mate well with my 35f1.2 beast.

Take a look at the VC meter if you cannot find an MR-4 to your liking. Being solid state it is a bit more shock proof. I use one on my M2 when I feel the need for a reflected light meter and it has the same field of view as a 90mm lens, just like the MR-4.
Don't you love second guessing yourself on a purchase? Enjoy the M5 when you get it.

And I will definitely look at the VC meter, not just for the M2 but for other meterless wundercameras like my TLRs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
Good to keep the M2. Its just a great camera and you shouldn't feel like its "lesser" than the M6.

I have an M2 and an M6 (and an M3). My M6 is broken beyond economical repair. I haven't yet had the urge to repair it (and may never).

In the meantime, I've learned to love my M2. My exposures are reasonable, and my mental meter improves every time I take it out. I should say, however, that I've been using the mental meter (with more than just the M2) for more years than I care to admit, so I would hope I hit exposure more often than not.

For about a year now, I've been longing for another film M camera. One to work in tandem with my M9 (I like to use both film and digital, each to their strength). That "new" camera is almost certain to be an M6TTL. So........nobody rush out and start driving the prices up, OK? Of course, all depends on that fickle budget. Might be a while...
Heartbreaking when something expensive goes so wrong. But I'm glad you've bonded with the M2, and I think I have with mine, as well. The idea of letting a meterless camera calibrate my eyes is an appealing one. And I have learned the eyes are always trying to hide the actual light levels from your brain, so it's no big if you aren't a living Gossen Luna Pro yet.

I, for one, am leaving the M6s alone for now, and you're welcome!
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Old 08-28-2016   #25
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If you currently wear glasses or may ever need them, have Sherry change the eyepiece to the rubber coated M6 style. It's a small touch but worth it.
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Old 08-28-2016   #26
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Sherry's price of $500 for CLA + replacement of both curtains is ok.
Youxin Ye's price for the same is $420.
I've used both and recommend either.

I know you've already made the correct choice but as others have said, and you know, anyone new to you but old M camera (M6 definitely falls into this category) may need work.
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Old 08-28-2016   #27
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If you currently wear glasses or may ever need them, have Sherry change the eyepiece to the rubber coated M6 style. It's a small touch but worth it.
DAG sells a snap on plastic eyepiece guard for $15. Prevent scratching your glasses. Works great, looks stock.
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Old 08-28-2016   #28
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I'd fix the M2 and buy an M6 as well because, .... I can't help myeslf. lol

Meanwhile, How many weeks can I live on noodles alone?
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Old 08-29-2016   #29
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Originally Posted by madNbad View Post
If you currently wear glasses or may ever need them, have Sherry change the eyepiece to the rubber coated M6 style. It's a small touch but worth it.
I don't wear glasses, but I'll bear this in mind, as most of my photographer friends do, and I don't want them to get all scratched up if they borrow the M.

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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
DAG sells a snap on plastic eyepiece guard for $15. Prevent scratching your glasses. Works great, looks stock.
Also good to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Sherry's price of $500 for CLA + replacement of both curtains is ok.
Youxin Ye's price for the same is $420.
I've used both and recommend either.

I know you've already made the correct choice but as others have said, and you know, anyone new to you but old M camera (M6 definitely falls into this category) may need work.
Indeed. Just like the decision to spend $800 in parts to rebuild the front suspension and clutch system of my 1996 Escort, it's a good investment in future photography, and any other like machine will probably need the work already, or soon, anyhow.

For the record, I've recieved the following quotes:

DAG:
$365 CLA
$120/each Shutter Curtains
$605 total

Sherry Krauter:
$285 CLA
$90 leading/$110 Trailing curtains
$485 Total

Youxin Ye:
$240 CLA
$80 leading/$100 Trailing curtains
$420 Total

EDIT:
I just got an email from Gus Lazzari as well:
$375 CLA
$120 for Curtains
$495 total

I have seen Sherry, Youxin and DAG all reccomended. Does anyone have anything to reccomend one above another? Youxin will get my vote because I know he does good work and he saves me over all the other options, and his turnaround isn't bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_rufctr View Post
I'd fix the M2 and buy an M6 as well because, .... I can't help myeslf. lol

Meanwhile, How many weeks can I live on noodles alone?
I have already stretched my budget, and the patience of my spouse and others who have to live with me and my camera collection, to the breaking point. Impulsing an M6 on top of that would not be wise. I am not exclusively a rangefinder guy, and I just bought a box of cameras on Saturday, as well.
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Last edited by unixrevolution : 08-29-2016 at 08:41. Reason: Edited to include pricing for Gus Lazzari
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Old 08-29-2016   #30
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Youxin Ye is very, very quick on the turn around time. I have had CLA's done and the camera back in ten days including shipping both ways. Sherry is good but I have been waiting a month for the M5.

Have used them both. Youxin Ye responds quickly to email while Sherry is erratic.
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Old 08-29-2016   #31
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I would have sold the R2, the M2 and then bought an MA.

It is an improved M3/M2.

I'm sure that your spouse would have been much relieved.
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Old 08-29-2016   #32
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Originally Posted by unixrevolution View Post

IF you're willing to pay for one or both of them, sure. But I don't have that kind of budget. It's Either-or.
I don't know why, but with Leica it is - get M2 fixed now, but M6 will come later. It is good to keep M2 for economical reasons. I have M4-2 and M4-P, but still want M2
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Old 08-29-2016   #33
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I have an MA, M3 and M6.

M6 viewfinder flares so don't use it very often.

M3 viewfinder is not as clear as the MA so it doesn't get used very often. I do have to say though, the M3's chrome and vulcanite has stood up very well over time. Maybe I will have to get the viewfinder cleaned up when I get some money.

First comes the Elmar 90 collapsible and the Summicron 50 collapsible. I guess I better get in touch with Youxin.
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Old 08-29-2016   #34
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Originally Posted by ktmrider View Post
Youxin Ye is very, very quick on the turn around time. I have had CLA's done and the camera back in ten days including shipping both ways. Sherry is good but I have been waiting a month for the M5.

Have used them both. Youxin Ye responds quickly to email while Sherry is erratic.
That has pretty much made up my mind for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
I would have sold the R2, the M2 and then bought an MA.

It is an improved M3/M2.

I'm sure that your spouse would have been much relieved.
The price gap is too large. If I spent that much on something I better be able to live in it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I don't know why, but with Leica it is - get M2 fixed now, but M6 will come later. It is good to keep M2 for economical reasons. I have M4-2 and M4-P, but still want M2
I am the kinda person who doesn't upgrade a lot, at least not without very good reason. I'll probably keep using the M2 and R2 until one or both break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
I have an MA, M3 and M6.

M6 viewfinder flares so don't use it very often.

M3 viewfinder is not as clear as the MA so it doesn't get used very often. I do have to say though, the M3's chrome and vulcanite has stood up very well over time. Maybe I will have to get the viewfinder cleaned up when I get some money.

First comes the Elmar 90 collapsible and the Summicron 50 collapsible. I guess I better get in touch with Youxin.
That's good to know. The MA must be pretty sweet. I'm glad Leica is continuing to be dedicated to the Film M. And there never seems to be enough money for everything you want. I'd be happy just to afford to CLA my Nikon SP and get to use it before I sell it to pay for the Leica M's overhaul.
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Old 08-29-2016   #35
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For me Leica M is "Film" = M2.
If I want electronics, I' use MY Minolta CLE ...
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Old 08-29-2016   #36
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for me it would have to be the M2 but at the end of the day either way you will have a great camera
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Old 08-29-2016   #37
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such overwhelming favour over the M2.
i like my leica with a meter, one less thing to carry around. I had wrongly exposed my film thinking the light didn't change that fast at the end of the day when light faded 1 stop per 10 mins! all the finder flare/zinc/bubble never bother me. love my m6! I had a troubled M2 that need a new curtain so i sold it and CLA my m6 and keep it forever.
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Old 08-29-2016   #38
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Originally Posted by unixrevolution View Post
My questions to you are:

1. Is the M6 superior or inferior to the M2 in any other ways besides the lightmeter?

2. Is my valuation of a needy M2 vs. a Decent M6 valid, as far as cost goes?

3. Would sticking with the meterless M, and using my Bessa for times when I really need the meter, make me a better photographer?

I just think that perhaps, of all the cameras I should have with a meter, the "Decisive Moment" M camera should be one of them.
1. M6 superior/inferior? Not in any way most people find a deal-breaker given some time to accommodate. "Most" may not include you, Erik, but given your eclectic shooting, I think it would.

2. Valuation valid? No, because no one will pay much at all, if anything, for an M2 needing hundreds of dollars of work. You have choice b/w spending about $500 to fix the M2 versus the price of a nice M6, or M6ttl, or possibly an M7.

3. Would going meterless make me a better photographer? If by "better" you mean a high proportion of well exposed images, not likely unless you shoot in light that rarely changes quickly, or have a lot of time to meter off-camera, or are willing to put up with the not insubstantial learning curve of judging light within a stop or better to give you the high proportion that a well-used metered camera will give you now. I know some people who have this skill. They are a minority that I envy, but I don't fool myself into thinking I have time or talent to ever get there. That's how meters got here in the first place.

Decisive Moment & Leica: imho, the fastest shooting, most accurately exposing film Leica is the M7 in autoexposure mode, once you learn how to lock exposure when required. There's a reason it's the most expensive, non-homage based film M in the used market. It's a shooter's shooter.

If economics matter, just fix the M2 and don't think any harder
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Old 08-29-2016   #39
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I had a M2 first and later got an M6 mainly cos I wanted a black camera.
The M2 had one CLA already and got the curtains fixed. I've still both cameras but I rather like using the M6 since it is more reliable (at least of my two Ms) - the M2 has a much less even frame spacing which can be work later when scanning.
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Old 08-29-2016   #40
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A curtain replacement is not a terribly difficult job on an M2, and the vertical alignment is trivial, a screw behind the little plug between the windows. I would send it to Youxin for a CLA including that work for a probably-very-reasonable price. The camera should be good for decades after that, or at least until you can't buy film anymore.

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