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Moving from a C-V 75mm to a 75mm Summarit...?
Old 02-27-2008   #1
Ken Ford
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Moving from a C-V 75mm to a 75mm Summarit...?

I'm considering selling some gear and replacing my trusty C-V 75 with a new Summarit.

Can anyone here that has the 75 Summarit offer an opinion on wide-open performance?

Thanks!
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Old 02-27-2008   #2
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The CV 75 is mighty good for value, performance is equally acceptable.
Having used it on M8, I can say . . . I actually think highly of it.

I don't have the Summarit 75. Perhaps it's performance might be stellar, so I don't know.


This is no way proper way to compare a lens . . .
but comparing it to my Elmar 50/2.8 (latest version), the contrast, and sharpness of CV75 is very good, if not on par.

What I am trying to say is . . . the performance gain might hardly be quantifiable.
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Old 02-27-2008   #3
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are you unhappy with the cv 75 performance?
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Old 02-28-2008   #4
Ken Ford
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I wish it were better wide open - stopped down to F4 it's fine. It's not unsharp at F2.5, but it doesn't have the razor-sharp feel my 35 ASPH does at F/2.

I'm curious how the Summarit is wide open. I really doubt I can afford a 75 Summicron.
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Old 02-28-2008   #5
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This is really a great question. The VC is the entry level, and the Summarit is the next upgrade step. (The only next step pricewise, as sadly ZM has a gap here.)

Erwin, FWIW, say that the 35 and 75 Summarits are the better of the 4. And that they are both close to the Summicron versions.
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Old 02-28-2008   #6
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I think Erwin Puts reviewed the Summarits, and if I remember he really liked the 35mm and the 75mm. Have you checked his site?
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Old 02-28-2008   #7
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if you really like the razor-sharp modern cron look that your 35 ASPH gives you (center and in the corners) and want the same in the longer FL, then save for the 75 cron.
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Old 02-28-2008   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lns
I think Erwin Puts reviewed the Summarits, and if I remember he really liked the 35mm and the 75mm. Have you checked his site?
Yes - but I'm looking for first hand experience. Puts is suspect in my book.
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Old 02-28-2008   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCTuomey
if you really like the razor-sharp modern cron look that your 35 ASPH gives you (center and in the corners) and want the same in the longer FL, then save for the 75 cron.
I do, and I just might!
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Old 02-28-2008   #10
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well, if you're not satisfied with the cv than it makes sense to look elsewhere.
sorry, but no experience at all with the new leica lenses.
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Old 02-28-2008   #11
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I owned a heliar before I got lux fever. I have shot both the cron and the summarit and both are very good. You might be surprised if you read Sean Reid's site, that the heliar held up pretty well when he compared it against the cron. It is worth the subscription price if you are thinking of making this move. Maybe you can find a summarit to try out against your heliar before you put out the money.
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Old 02-28-2008   #12
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I have the CV 75 and just didn't see enough gain in the Summarit but did in the 75 Lux and went with it.
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Old 02-28-2008   #13
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Well, I've tried both.

I'm not sure I'd trade the Voigtländer for the Summarit, but the Summarit is enough better in my book that if I didn't have a 75, the Summarit is well worth the extra.

I own a Summicron, and it's superb: a 'magic' lens. If I didn't have that, I'd seriously consider a Summarit. For wide-open performance, and close-ups, the Summicron is (unsurprisingly) better, but the Summarit is very good indeed.

You might find this interesting:

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photo...0summarit.html

or of course you might not.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 02-28-2008   #14
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http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...ht=75+Summarit

This may be of interest.

yours
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Old 02-29-2008   #15
Ken Ford
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What I really want is a 75 Cron (no thanks to Roger's article that got me interested when first published, grumble grumble). The C-V 75 was always meant to be a "placekeeper' lens for me to see how I liked the FL on the M6. It handles differently enough from a Leica lens to be a bit of an annoyance, but it has served its purpose with distinction - it is a very nice lens.

Unfortunately prices are out of control and a 75 Summicron may be forever out of reach unless I start pimping out my wife and dogs. A Summarit, while not inexpensive, is at least doable if I sell of some unused gear.

I feel a tremendous need to simplify my kit with less stuff and concentrate on what I really want.

FPJohn, thank you - that's exactly the kind of comparison I was seeking.
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Leica: M-P Typ 240 - M6 - Leicavit M - RapidWinder - Motor M - 21 Super-Elmar - 28 Ultron - 35 Summicron ASPH - 40 Summicron - 75 APO-Summicron ASPH - 75 Summarit-M - 75 Color-Heliar - 90 Elmar-C
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Old 02-29-2008   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ford
What I really want is a 75 Cron (no thanks to Roger's article that got me interested when first published, grumble grumble).
Sorry Ken!

I often wish I were nearer so many of my correspondents so they could just try some of the gear I have. Handling it, and comparing test shots, is the only way to tell if something really suits you.

Cheers,

Roger
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Old 02-29-2008   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ford
Unfortunately prices are out of control and a 75 Summicron may be forever out of reach unless I start pimping out my wife and dogs.
Any photos of your wife?
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Old 02-29-2008   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCTuomey
if you really like the razor-sharp modern cron look that your 35 ASPH gives you (center and in the corners) and want the same in the longer FL, then save for the 75 cron.
I consider the 75 Cron as one of those lenses that is at the zenith of lens design. Image quality wise, only the 50 ASPH and the 90 AA seem to be able to equal it.
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Old 03-25-2008   #19
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The way I read this thread, it would make the jump from the CV to the Summarit mostly a question of build quality and handling rather than image quality. Aperture and minimum focus distance are nearly the same...just wish I could see differences between the images taken by the two. Here is another discussion of the CV in a positive light: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...643#post715643
Sounds like the stratospheric choices ('cron and 'lux) have deservedly good reputations, but are way out of my range. In the absence of a ZM option, sounds like my best choice is the CV Color Heliar. It just doesn't sound like the Summarit offers that much substantial difference, if any.
Does anybody know a place where photos taken with the CV and the Summarit can be seen side by side?
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Old 03-25-2008   #20
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As it happens, I have just been shooting with a Summarit 75f2.5 over the last couple of days. My friend Terry Cioni bought one and graciously lent it to me.
a/ Going from the CV 75f2.5 to the Summarit 75 you will see a slight improvement in wide open performance. Not staggering, mind you, but slightly better edges than with the VC.
b/ It is not a small lens! I expected it to be close to the VC in size, but it is actually closer to the Apo Summicron 75. I did put a shot of the four 75's on my Flickr site a couple of days ago and there you can see the difference.
c/ If I had a VC 75, I would be hard pressed to spent the $12-1300 for a Summarit 75. I think I would rather save up for a 75/2 Summicron instead! As Roger says, it is a spectacular lens. In my estimation, one of the best Leica lenses ever! It is particularly good in close up and wide-open. If you are used to the edginess of the 35/2 Asph, nothing will really satisfy you until you get the 75f2 Summicron. So a couple of month on "hambutger helper" and macaroni and cheese is rough, but you will have the best Leica lens made!
I know, this is not much help in trying to avoid the inevitable (the 75f2), but thats my opinion.
Of course, with the introduction of the C-Biogon 35/2.8 from Zeiss, I would suspect that we will see a 85f2.8 C-Sonnar soon enough (pure speculation though, but it does kind of fit) and with the quality of the current C-series, the 21/4.5, the 50f1.5 it could be a worthy contender and most likely outperform the Summitar 75!

Last edited by Tom A : 03-25-2008 at 09:56.
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Old 03-25-2008   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noimmunity View Post
it would make the jump from the CV to the Summarit mostly a question of build quality and handling rather than image quality.
indeed!

I have hexanon 90mm. Ergonomics of this lens starts to be an annoyance for me. That can be enough good reason to switch to better lens ergonomics wise which is often Leica made. I don't really mind to have Summarit 50mm instead of Elmar M, 90mm summarit - hexanon, 75mm - cv etc. etc.
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Old 03-25-2008   #22
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Quote:
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Of course, with the introduction of the C-Biogon 35/2.8 from Zeiss, I would suspect that we will see a 85f2.8 C-Sonnar soon enough ...
Dear Tom.

Possibly, but as the 85 frame on the ZI is identical with the 90 frame on one of my Leicas, a 75 is a rather different animal.

I fully second your point about the Summicron.

My own priorities, if I owned no 75, would be:

1 (if I could afford it) Summicron

2 (failing money for a Summicron) Summarit

3 (failing money for a Summarit) Voigtländer

I'd certainly upgrade from Voigtländer to Summicron like a shot, and if choosing a first 75, I'd prefer a Summarit to the Voigtländer, as indicated above; but the cost of the upgrade from Voigtländer to Summarit, if I already had the Voigtländer, would give me pause.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 03-25-2008   #23
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Any photos of the dogs?
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Old 03-26-2008   #24
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Thank you, everyone. I think I'll sit tight and save for the Cron - I really prefer the crispness of my 35 ASPH and would like a 75 with the same.
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Old 03-26-2008   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ford View Post
Thank you, everyone. I think I'll sit tight and save for the Cron - I really prefer the crispness of my 35 ASPH and would like a 75 with the same.
I don't think you'll regret that decision.

Cheers,

R.
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